Basia, I agree so much with your post. Sometimes we get so involved in our immediate mission that we cannot see outside the box. The simple fact of being ableMessage 1 of 62 , Nov 14, 2012View Source
Basia, I agree so much with your post. Sometimes we get so involved in our immediate mission that we cannot see outside the box.
The simple fact of being able to debate, exchange ideas and life experience without fear or persecution, is a miracle in itself.
We have freedom of speech and for this we should all be truly grateful.
We are the beginning of a new Era and need to be examples for others to follow.
It would be so wonderful if true democracy existed in the whole world. It does not!
Hopefully we can inch towards it, even with passions inflamed, historical truths checked, all those marvellous debates.
How fortunate are we all to be able to participate in exchanges of ideas and experiences.
How very fortunate indeed!
Always thought provoking and inciting responses rooted in individual stories and experiences.
Basia Zielinska (Sydney)
And thank you Krystyna
I have always thought that, if you take a group of 10, 000 people at random from anycountry and compare them with 10, 000 people taken at random from another country, then you will get two similar sets of people. The message is that we should fight the rise of any modern day Hitler or Stalin. We should educate our people and encourage knowledgeable voting. This is proper democracy. This is the lesson of the last war.
Sent from Samsung tablet
Krystyna Mew <krystynamew@...> wrote:
I totally support your views. There are in all situations 'good' and 'bad' people, but surely everyone should be aiming for some degree of reconciliation. The horrors that happened during the war cannot be changed. I am not saying that the correct facts of history should not be sought out, but maybe with a little objectivity and distance. I realise that this is difficult as we are mostly first generation Poles, whose parents/grandparents went through hell, but it would be nice to think that we could at least try.
I am not a historian, and trying to put together a factual perspective on events.
What strikes me, from the sidelines, as dangerous, is to put a label, whatever that label may be, on a whole country.
That is ludicrous, surely.
Since I begun my journey, trying to find out about my father's time during the war years,
I have dipped into books relating to the 1939 onwards times and there are stories of great kindness and compassion from the people of the oppressor's countries.
I, if it is necessary, will try to find and do "Correct quotes"
Both my parents experienced dreadful hardships during the war, my father in Siberia, (I still need to get a clearer concept of that experience) my mother in Germany.
Even allowing for time "changing" memories – as does happen- I heard first from my father, then many times from my mother, a story about how the guard in my father's place of internment asked if anyone could fix a watch, how my father was pushed forward by his colleagues, advocating his ability to mend a watch, which indeed he did. This led to his being invited to the guards home (and I have no concept of how that could even be)
to come to his house to mend a "Grandfather clock." Apparently the wife had prepared a meal, an incredible feast (which I imagine was a very simple meal, but compared to rations a feast) and my father was invited to sit down and join the meal. I recall him telling us about his fear that he was to be poisoned, and waiting until the husband and wife started to eat.
He had a very genial evening – again this has to be in perspective of the situation.
At "some later time" the guard told my father he would leave a place "somewhere" open for him to escape – which I understand he did.
The next stage in my father's life is still a mystery – and may have to remain that way – though I will keep unravelling whatever I can.
My mother experienced very tough times in forced labour and also, during those times, tremendous kindness. She always told me not to judge a whole country by political events
(I used to be ready to hate all Germans and all Russians!!!! How ridiculous!) I have been to both Russia and to Germany and have experienced warmth and generosity.
What I am trying to illustrate is that kindness and compassion is a human condition which can be experienced even in the most unexpected places.
Also to label a whole country (any country) with one large sweep seems dangerous to me. How can the world ever come to even the remotest place of reconciliation?
Perhaps I am a romantic, perhaps my life has been very soft (not always), perhaps indeed that will never be possible and wars will continue.
Basia Zielinska (Sydney)
Я живу в другой ментальности и привык называть вещи своими именами. Я не позволю, чтобы один человек нагнетал здесь истерию по поводу того, что везде враги (лжецы).
Хватит искать врагов.
Мы занимаемся здесь каждый своей индивидуальной историей, а не политикой!
Вот вы Джон живете в Канаде. Если бы я сейчас, не понимая что у вас творится, стал бы называть всех канадских историков лжецами, и то что они всегда были лжецами, - как бы вы на это реагировали?
Если я перешел, с точки зрения западного этикета, грань толерантности, то приношу всем извинения. Я живой человек, мне просто жаль, что кто-то присвоил себе истину в первой инстанции.
Я ученый и должен всех, кто еще не понял, огорчить - все процессы в этом мире вероятностные, мы никогда не узнаем правды, и только одно мы знаем точно - что мы когда-нибудь умрем.
Так не будем же вешать ярлыки друг на друга, а пытатаемся найти взаимопонимание.
Впрочем, я не против личного модератора. Я даже не против, если меня выкинут из группы - это дело организаторов. Я бесконечно благо�
Dear All, I have been reading the various posts about the level of spats that have been going on. I understand so well that feelings run high about certainMessage 62 of 62 , Nov 16, 2012View SourceDear All,I have been reading the various posts about the level of 'spats' that have been going on. I understand so well that feelings run high about certain issues. We can all understand that but, even though feelings can run high, the foundation of this group is mutual respect. We need that foundation so that we can, infact, have discussions which widen our knowledge and enable us to ask questions and ask for help. If we start to feel that we may be 'shot down' if we say the wrong thing or phrase something wrongly , then it will result in many people not feeling able to post any more which would be such a dreadful shame.I can understand that those of us who are more academic are keen on numbers and getting these numbers right, etc. We all, I think, learn a lot from the academics among us. I certainly have done so. However, we have to be careful that we don't just 'objectify' the people involved in these numbers because every number is a person and every person had a family and was loved and once lived and breathed. We must never render them to a mere statistic.I think that we have had a wake up call and I hope that, in future, we will all continue to treat each other with respect and accept that sometimes we may have different views which come from different backgrounds, ethnicity, etc. I would like to think that the recent 'misunderstandings' were as a result of bad translations and, perhaps, someone not quite understanding the volatile nature of the words used. I will continue to think that so that I can keep within myself a positive view.I commend John for bringing to our attention the need to remember the magic R word - RESPECT. It is always because of a lack of respect and the objectification of peoples that allow other nations to believe they can just invade a country, rob its people of all that is dear to them and not give these people a second thought. As we all know - we all have suffered from this. You only have to look at the signings off of our members - we are all scattered to all points of the world! How many of our parents, grandparents actually wanted to be in these foreign lands? How many of us, today, wish we could sign of with Poland ( I include the Kresy in this).I love this group, I bless the day I was idly googling and found Kresy-Siberia. I bless the decision to join the group. How could I know on that wet Sunday afternoon that just 4 years later I would be corresponding with my very own lost family and planning to meet them. I can never thank this group enough. Of course, we will have disagreements and, of course, sometimes we may get royally disgruntled by one member or the other, but - we have all suffered loss, pain, carried our parent's pain and we all have the same aims.I thank you all again, from the bottom of my heart, for all that I have learned, for all that has been returned to me and for healing my heart and soul after a lifetime of having a half of me missing. Let's not spoil this group just because, for a time, we feel so strongly about something, that we forget both manners and respect. They are simple things to live by but really difficult things to regain once lost.Warmest wishes to you allBarbara Szczepanska DunleavyNottingham, England.
From: Carol Hornby-Clements <craftyccc@...>
Sent: Thursday, 15 November 2012, 21:22
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Personal labels
Well said.I have learned much here, gained documents and have other leads to pursue. I plan to go to Wilno next year.I am grateful for the help received and will share future findings.Carol UKOn 15 November 2012 21:16, LenardaSzymczak <szymczak01@...> wrote:
John, you have been understood correctly. You were the one who put your head up first and drew the fire. Thank you. If not you then it would be another member. You defended the Groups Values.This group works on positive and in this we feel safe and have comfort in the painful research we do.If anyone becomes derogatory or abusive or wants to have a heated debate , this is not the forum to release those emotions, as we have values, respect, honour, loyalty (perhaps old fashioned Chivalry) as group and individuals, we have gone to hell and back, with many of us still very sensitive about our loss, but came out with a positive attitude for individual and group research, we found a place on this earth were we are understood and can share this pain and perhaps, in time, make this world a better place, step by step, simply by telling the TRUTH and slowly those in the world, who want to listen, will understand and see the real horror of what happened.Thank you again, for trying to be Vigilante, as you have shown with your actions, (you are one of many) that in this amazing group, we have members who really care and understand all others, trying to see and learn from other members point of view (if respectful) most of the time.As Basia Z. Says we should be passionate about the history, passionate in our words, but always respect each other and uphold the values of the group. We have at times become personal with other members but never insulting.Until this last incident, I was so proud of group, thinking that we, with all our combined people, from all over, who suffered and were in the Kresy during this horrific time, no matter what religion, language, ethnic background etc. Us as a group, were achieving, actually assisting and co-operating better, than any know Parliament on this Earth. Was I wrong? Let’s treat this as a wakeup call and get on with doing the job better.Every one of us who has input, brings honour and more good information to KS Group, we have done this in the past and will keep doing this. This is what makes our group special and different and a large extended family, of a people who have been through the same pain, some more than others. So let’s keep the family squabbles private and outside group, where the public cannot judge us, abiding by the code of conduct as expected within the group. Honest, caring, respectful, informative, correcting, yes, but never insulting to an idea, or information put forward, or another member personally or because of their information, otherwise we lower our standard and become uncivilized, (destroying the values of freedom of speech) blocking future research and this affects the entire group.Each of us has a painful journey of discovery and research; we share the same load with different skills and knowledge. By all means, correct the information if it is wrong and also add more information as it comes to light, with new information being found every day. If you are not aware of code of conduct online, then please read Group Policy and become aware. In our openness, caring, sharing, respect and most of all assistance to each other, we are strong as one and what hurts one, hurts all and what is most damaging, it is in public view. Our personal derogatory opinions, we keep private offline, but online we follow the code of conduct and speak to Group and each other with respect and good old fashioned manners, knowing we all went through the same or similar HELL ON EARTH.My apologies for another ramble, but truly, use this as a wakeup call and let’s do better in the future, John only did what many of you would have done and got in trouble for it.. It was an attack on the integrity and code of Group, which he was defending.I personally get so angry at this petty bickering and waste of time, which should be devoted to civilized research, which is instead, demeaning and lowering the standard of KS, as we are here, specifically, to research, support and assist each other in Group.Warmest regards,Lenarda, AustraliaThanks for being heard on this despite your frightfully busy schedule, Krystyna.It is somewhat comforting to see that you "expect the group to run itself during this period" because I did not relish what was starting to look like a vigilante role. Perhaps I have been overly sensitized by the current spate of anti-bullying messages in my part of Canada (and perhaps yours) that seem to say anyone who is not part of the solution is part of the problem.There has been a spate of support on forum and in private messages to me (thank you, all) but if I am reading accurately between the lines some members feel this is a private spat between individuals - ironic, since my concern was about personal jabs in the first place. No doubt, any such sentiment is fed by my up-front acknowledgement that I was protesting as an individual member rather than someone with a legitimate policing role.I leave it in your hands to offer further clarification of the point. I also leave it to you (and other members) to challenge further personal attacks if they occur. This particular vigilante is retreating.Good luck with your other work.John HaluchaSault Ste Marie, CanadaDear John,No the rules of the group have not changed. We continue to expect that members will treat each other with respect.If the moderators (Stefan and I) have been quiet lately, it is because Stefan has been dealing with the death of his father, and we are both dealing with Grant Application deadlines, and Grant project work on the Virtual Museum that also has strict deadlines. We cannot take time away from these critical activities just now, so we expect the group to run itself during this period.Of course, we welcome any member that will accept to become a moderator and relieve us of this added burden. Please consider this and let us know if you would be willing to take this on.Stefan and I, as well as Aneta and Anna, are finding that 24 hour days are far too short for our needs, and we would appreciate some added assistance from the members.Kind regards,Krystyna-----Krystyna Szypowska - Winnipeg, CanadaExecutive Director, Kresy-Siberia Foundation - registered in Warsaw (KRS 0000326445)Chair & Exec Director, Kresy-Siberia (Canada) Inc. - Registered Charity No. 83341 6407 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting FREE 83341 6407end_of_the_skype_highlighting RR0001Director, Kresy-Siberia (UK) - Registered Charity No. 1137210--