Some years ago when I was putting together a presentation of the Polish deportation, their suffering in the USSR/Russian Gulag and their wanderings throughoutMessage 1 of 34 , Jan 31, 2012View Source
Some years ago when I was putting together a presentation of the Polish deportation, their suffering in the USSR/Russian Gulag and their wanderings throughout the world, I was contacted by a Jewish lady of some influences at one of the Jewish prominent Holocaust Museums.
I did not solicit this lady’s help. I did not know her nor even knew of the existence of her museum in her state. She found me through the Kresy Group.
She said that she understood the Polish suffering and would help me present the Polish suffering at her museum as long as I never used the world Holocaust in describing the Polish suffering in any of my presentation. (When I use the word ‘Her” it is not intended to mean she owned the museum although she might have. I have no idea if she owned or not the museum). But ….
At that point I decided that there was no need for further discussion, I thanked her for her interest, time and consideration.
Historical documents show that the Germans were planning to destroy all the Polish people but save just a few to be used as slaves. To them we were considered no different than an animal.
That type of description is a meaning of holocaust.
The destruction of the Polish population by USSR/Russia was a holocaust.
The murder of the military by USSR/Russia was a holocaust. Any way you look at it Poland suffered a holocaust. And…….
Let me say this, all the Jewish people who were citizens of Poland were always considered “Polish” first but were of Jewish ancestry or religion second.
To indicate otherwise would mean that the Jewish Community lived in Poland for 900 years just to take advantage of Poland or Poland allowed them to live in Poland to take advantage of the Jewish people, and I don’t believe that to be the truth in ether case period. Therefore Polish people suffered a holocaust!
I am sorry to say that many groups have suffered a holocaust throughout history and many are suffering a holocaust currently.
That word is not and should not be considered property of only one group of suffering people.
I do recognize that the Jewish Community with their extensive media have given that word a greater and more importation meaning which helps greatly to describe murderous suffering of so many in the past and currently.
I hope that answers the question regarding the use of the word “holocaust” as I see it.
Julek USAOn Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Chris Gniewosz <Chris@...> wrote:The word holocaust exited prior to WWII. When I was once asked to give input on the Holocaust for a radio show, I asked, "which one"? My answer resulted in my not being taken seriously, or I was ignorant, or I was anti-Jewish. My question was real. Humanity is very good at causing holocausts. Many peoples have been mass killed. It is not a Jewish victim phenomena. I was then told that Holocaust, with a capital H is the Jewish situation, and holocaust without a capital is everything else. Hmmm. How is it that the Jewish experience is more important than everybody else. That is just prejudice. I do not mean to minimize the horrific experience of many Jews during WWII, but the use of Holocaust as an exclusive Jewish experience is insulting to the many victims of holocausts through time around the world.Chris GniewoszPortland OregonOn Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...> wrote:
Is the term Holocaust a specific term used only for one peoples’ or is it a generic term. I recall in my workplace, a government office, when one of our staff went for counselling to a psychologist and when they were asked where did their parents come from and the answer was Poland, Polish. They were immediately labelled a Holocaust Victim with Holocaust Syndrome and this is why they had difficulty fitting into the workplace and they were told, their workplace problems were psychological paranoia and not real. Causing them to exaggerate on simple problems and they were dismissed. This Holocaust label was given across the board to Polish, Jewish, Slav, German anyone who was in Europe at the time of WWII. Was this wrong?. Also the person in question had a real physical disability, injury, which caused them difficulty keeping up with others in the work place, but this was ignored and they were labelled as having a psychological problem because they were Holocaust victim.
If this is the case, as above. Then should not all countries honour and celebrate all holocaust victims, without specifically naming the country or language or religion they belong to and respect all as one victim of the holocaust caused by two insane madmen.
Everyone is getting personal and forgetting the war was caused by Hitler and Stalin, not the innocent people who were the victims and now as survivors we have the honour and respect to tell their stories so they will be remembered and this history, which is shameful to all the world, will be brought into the open and our beloved dead and those who suffered to give us freedom will never be forgotten.
I searched for years to find a people, a group that I belonged to and felt at home. Because you all shared the same sorrow, coming from the same soil, under the same two madmen and by telling our stories, it was bringing healing, research to fill in the gaps and even locating our lost loved ones.
We are all family, but, like a real family, at the moment we are squabbling like a bunch of kids, fighting at the dinner table. Let’s get on with the research, work and making our presence known to the rest of the world, uncovering the cover-ups and giving understanding to survivors, who have a huge chunk missing out of their life, through lack of knowledge about their family. This is the work that this wonderful group was first created to perform.
I as a survivor of Polish parents from Soviet Soil (Za Kordonem) I absolutely, know what it feels like to be marginalized, because others do not know the real history and are yet to learn. But in this group I was allowed to tell my story, treated with respect and embraced by the group. Also in telling my story, it added to the copious amounts of research already obtained by the group. I am sincerely thankful and appreciative of the compassion given to me by the group, which has enabled me to belong and to heal and to accept myself and my heritage, for the first time in my life. Believe me, at 60 years of age, it has been a long time coming and again for this I am thankful to the group, if not for all of you, this would not have been possible.
It is not right to cover up the suffering of the Polish people, hoping we will go away and other nationalities getting attention, remember “the squeaky wheel gets the most grease”. Because we quietly hold our ground with truth, not many know of us and we should make our presence known at every opportunity or event or historical or memorial function around the world. It really is a case of people do not know what really happened. All they know are the stories of the two madmen, but not of the people who suffered.
I sincerely apologise for any hurt, disrespect or offence, that I have caused by producing the link, The Jewish Role in the Bolshevik Revolution and Russia's Early Soviet Regime which caused all this grief and it really upsets and saddens me, to see all this hurt come out, from members in the group. Through my lack of knowledge I produce a question, but believe me, I was truly offended by the link I provided and only wanted something, like “it is biased, or useless, or do not pursue this further”. I never expected or wanted to bring out the inner pain. The volume of research material produce and the diversity of the membership of our group was amazing to learn. I admired those who responded and I agree, we should all be like a United Nations type organization, sharing the same hurt and not being biased to one ethnical group. This hurt will always be there, we all have scars, some more than others and I have the highest respect for those members who have been able to work through their pain, remaining unbiased to focus on the prime object of Kresy-Siberia Group as research, assistance, respectful and above all listening to everyone’s true stories.
In this way, we are correcting the cover-ups and helping others out there, who have similar experiences to us, wanting answers but have no knowledge of where to go, in search of this information. This is why, we as a group, have a reputation of being a safe haven to those in pain and a research guide on their journey of discovering their families past.
Published by Chris Gniewosz
"Noble Youth - Adventures of Fourteen Siblings Growing Up on a Polish Estate"
"Noble Flight - A Family's Exodus and Survival During World War II" www.NobleYouth.comPlease contact Chris for any construction needs:Chrisco Construction LLC (Oregon CCB 187782)
His father was imprisoned, I think in the 1950s, and sent to a Soviet uranium mine. He was released after some years but died while fairly young. At dinner oneMessage 34 of 34 , Feb 4, 2012View SourceHis father was imprisoned, I think in the 1950s, and sent to a Soviet
uranium mine. He was released after some years but died while fairly
young. At dinner one night he (my neighbor) got talking because he was
in my company and had been asking about such things, and also because
his cousin and family were visiting from Germany, and they both shared
the experience of escaping from Poland. And perhaps there was a glass of
wine involved. Anyhow, he told his father's story about dinner in the
camp, and how one particular sadistic trusty (I don't know the Polish or
Russian or even British name for a prisoner who collaborates with the
guards for better treatment) died as the result of an accident, probably
no accident at all, and that night a human skull turned up in the soup vat.
At this exact moment, his pretty wife (a classmate of my daughter's at
Harvard, as it happens) came out from the kitchen to ask whether we
wanted ice cream on our cake for dessert. Even as she spoke, she was
processing this story which she had heard while entering the room, and
the expression on her face was something to behold. In her right hand
she held a plate of chocolate cake by itself, and in her left the same
cake a la mode.
They have certainly livened up the neighborhood, though they haven't
been up much this winter. The previous owners never spoke to us. I once
saw them walking along the road with a baby carriage, and thought, Oh! a
grandchild, how nice! but on getting closer realized that it was a dog
in the carriage (pram).
Blue skies! -- Dan Ford USA
On 2/4/2012 12:58 PM, Cynthia Pukiello wrote:
> Hello Dan,
> Could not help but say a few words re;your neighbour & just how
> affluent these people are after all they have gone through & good luck
> to him ,you are e
> very fortunate to have such a neighbour.
> I am the widow of a polish man who was arrested aged 16 years & sent
> as a deportee to Siberia.
> Good wishes are sent to you & yours.
> Cynthia Pukiello (English UK).