It's good to hear more about your experiences and spiritual journey.
Mish shared some good info and I thought I'd make some comments on
what you have recently posted.
Hi Guys, Dolly here.
Great to hear back from you. Thankyou for all your very helpful
comments. I will follow up on all your info. What got me to check
out Eckankar on the net? Periodically I look back over the Amway
survivors material to see the latest on what's happening, as I had
met a lot of the Diamonds etc from the States. I had not looked at
it for over a year. So about 7pm on the Friday nite went into some
of the sites, - was really tired at 11.30pm - decided to go to bed -
funny thing happened -I was nearly asleep when a 'little inkling'
said - 'maybe you could find out if there is anything to do with
Eckankar and Cults' on the internet. I was sooo tired, didn't want
to get up, but made the effort. It didn't take long - I typed
in 'Cults and Eckankar' in minutes I was wide awake!
*****This sounds like the stories Eckists have in discovering
Eckankar! However, your discovery is of truth rather than the
distortions of truth. Sounds like good karma to me!
Looking back over the last week or two - I remember asking myself
the question - I wonder if Sri Harold is really God in Man form - or
just someone who has set himself up as a figure head - someone had
been telling me that he was unwell - frail was the word they used -
and I remember thinking 'I wonder how God can get sick?'
*****Yes, it seems the godman is sick! In his Eckankar Lexicon Klemp
states in the definition for MAHANTA that he (the Mahanta) is
the "special incarnation of the SUGMAD." Since "God" is seen
(through Eck dogma) as a 2nd or 4th Plane diety and Jesus as a chela
in training, when world consciousness was very low, the 14th Plane
Mahanta should be without negative illness. Funny how Klemp claims
Twitchell's Mahanta consciousness was lower than his is today and
this is linked to past and present world consciousness. What
happened with today's advanced consciousness? Perhaps, HK is Not
practicing what he preaches to others. After all, if Rebazar can be
500 years old and healthy and the Eck Master ASOKI can be 60,000
years old in a physical body why is Klemp having problems?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm - maybe because it's all fictional!
To answer your question on the Eckankar-Amway link. One of the
first sites I went into was 'Early Eckankar History' -one of the
articles is to do with property that was owned by a Helen Frye -
acres in Arizona, and wills and courtcases etc etc This money-
making side of it suddenly made me wonder if Eckankar was nothing
more than a 'religious amway-type company that make their money out
of Membership Fees, Books, Tapes, Seminars, Functions (I love my
EK watch) -I was flabbergasted to think it might be just another
money-making scheme under a differet guise. So that was the only
*****Yes, the Helen Frye/Sedona/Eckankar thing was very bad. Gross
had made her an 8th Initiate around the time he made Klemp an 8th.
DG scammed her out of the Sedona property and her heirs were very
upset. It just goes to show the state of consciousness of the
Eckankar org back then when Klemp was climbing the Initiation ladder.
Now, since I sent that 1st e-mail yesterday - I've thought 'dummy -
you left out the reason you joined Eckankar' no questions asked!
- Short history- childhood - went to which ever church was closest
to where mum and dad lived at the time (we were always moving)
Church of England, Methodist, Presbyterian, Church of Christ,
Assemblies of God, Baptist. When I got married hubby (who'd been
brought up a Catholic) & I became Seventh-Day Adventists - but we
got sick of eating TVP - I think we resigned so we could have a
steak! I don't usually say this - so I'd better spell it
- s h i t - I never realised til now - when I had to think about
it - how many churches I've been in.
*****S_it does happen! Yep, I went through a bunch of churches,
Eastern Religion, and even psychic groups and such before joining
Eckankar. I did the TVP - Vegie thing for a few years too! Isn't it
interesting how Klemp has agreed with Twitchell in putting down the
Roman Catholic Church for its "apostolic tradition" and yet
Twitchell copied this to create a lineage of Eck Masters. Somewhat
clever wasn't it! I wonder why Eckists don't see the correlations?!
After the 7th day episode (3 years of an awful regime - made life
hard - I swore I would never go into another church- and I haven't.
I started searching thru New Age Bookshops - did the Catherine
Ponder Books, then moved on to the Joel Goldsmith's Infinite Way
Books. This was 1992-96.
*****Yes, I had all of Goldsmith's books! I find it interesting how
Klemp has made excuses for Twitchell in order to validate his own
position. Why can't Klemp write a Shariyat 3 & 4 to bring this Eck
knowledge up-to-date with world consciousness?! Doesn't Klemp
communicate with the Nine Silent Ones who "Compiled" the Shariyats 1
& 2 for Twitchell? Hmmmmm These are mysterious times in Eckankar!: )
One nite while sitting at my desk at home- contemplating on what I
was reading - I suddenly started on a journey thru a big, very
bright, white tube arriving suddenly at a Room - It seemed to be
round, with dark cream and browny-maroon furnishings that looked
like the 17th-18th century period. In the middle of the room sat a
man in a dark-stained wooden rocking chair. He had dark hair with a
beard. He looked at me and smiled. I remember thinking to myself -
this must be Nostradamus - He looked at me intently and then
suddenly I was 'Back' at my desk. I felt very happy - this
experience stayed with me for a long time. I told no-one. But I
couldn't find any clue to who he was - until - someone gave me an
ECK book - you guessed it - Nostradamus had a look alike - Rebazar
Tarzs. I see now why I didn't question anything - coz suddenly years
later, I had some sort of answer for 'the experience'.
*****I always had a lot of spiritual experiences with all kinds of
phenomena prior to joining Eckankar and during Eckankar. However,
the after-Eckankar experiences have surpassed all of my previous
experiences! And, even the former Eckist James Davis (The Rosetta
Stone of God) had inner experiences with what he thought was the
Mahanta and the Eck Masters until he discovered that these were his
own mental constructs created by Soul! We are our own true Master.
Therefore, this is also why one can experience and receive these
mental constructs prior to discovering Eckankar because Soul is Not
limited to time or space. The mind is just used as a mental body and
communication device for Soul.
I see where a lot of you have been 'in' Eckankar for so much longer
than me. My experience with groups of people (churches,Amway MLMs
etc) taught me not to do the buddy-buddy thing - so I never attended
a Satsang class, have been to about 20 Hu Songs in Five Years and
have only ever gone to 3 or 4 Worship Services in 5 years. I
attented major seminars. Becoz to go to a worship service on
a 'Sunday' did not sit well with me - too much like going to church!
*****Klemp has modeled Eckankar after his Luthern roots. Some of the
older old-timer Eckists seem to enjoy the religious aspects of
Eckankar. Even with most areas meeting only once a month for the Eck
Worship Service I would still hear comments like, "We missed you
last month" from H.I.s that should have known better. I would wonder
when their last Arahata Training was or whether they would ever "get
it." This is why Klemp finally had to come out with more and better
trainings for Eck leaders. Still, many Eckists just dislike the
structure and guidelines and act very passive/aggressive towards
them. Where's the freedom? Besides, how can Eckists promote Eckankar
when their own spiritual growth is lacking? Most Eckists just end up
talking the (authorized and approved) talk with hopes that the next
Initiation will give better clarification for it all. Alas, it never
happens and, thus, the delusions increase as the mind compensates
for the unfulfilled promises of Self, Spiritual, and God-Realization.
But the main reason - if you go 'to' everything that's on, every
week, then miss a week, -people - want to know why you 'missed'
being there last week. That questioning makes me feel uncomfortable -
so I avoid it - I don't go! I just liked reading the books!
I received the 2nd initiation after the second year, but looking
back now, I can see that initiations are there just to boost one's
ego - they don't change reality.
*****Yes, those initiations are a bunch of carrots (usually seven).
Here's an interesting quote from Klemp [my caps]: "Initiates of the
high circles in ECK unfold ONLY to the DEGREE to which they PERCEIVE
HOW the Law of Economy governs the ORBITS of OBJECTS in EVERY
macroCOSMIC OR microCOSMIC creation. This includes the COHESIVE
ATOMS in the human body... whoever orders his life around an
agreement with the Light and Sound of ECK is ASSURED that EVERY
PROBLEM has a READY-MADE SOLUTION near at hand." It seems that Klemp
just can't be honest with Eckists as to WHO gets what and HOW it's
really done. There's always more crap added to the pile!
From what you guys are saying I should read this Ford guys book.
Already after reading what you guys have to say - I'm starting to
feel not so guilty - I was at first - about the negative thoughts I
was having regarding the Mr Klemp person.
*****Ford Johnson was an insider, although, a 7th and Not an 8th
Initiate. Ford was too free a thinker to have been an 8th Initiate.
Klemp wants "yes" men and women for the 8th and 9th initiations.
There is limited individuality and No spiritual freedom inside the
hive! <sigh> LOL!