Well, God and Allah are seen as Fourth Plane dieties by Eckankar,
therefore, they would be the equivalent to 4th Initiates. The
Christian God and the Moslem God (Allah) and others are seen by
Eckankar as residing on the 4th or Mental Plane. The prophets and
saviors of these world religions are usually seen as residing on
even lower planes of consciousness. Also, any religion that is
emotional (Astral) is seen as a 2nd Plane religion by Eckankar.
The Mahanta is at least a 14th Plane diety and is the incarnation of
the SUGMAD (Eckankar Lexicon). The SUGMAD ("God" of Eckankar)
resides on a Plane of consciousness way beyond the 14th, but I'm not
sure where this is stated in the Eck works. Anyway, this means that
the Mahanta (14th Plane) is 10 times greater than Allah or the
Christian God (4th Plane) or of any God of other world religions!
And, the SUGMAD is even greater!
I did find a quote, but you may need to look in the Shariyat to find
a more complete explanation. The following quote is from a 1983
printing of "The Spiritual Notebook" by Paul Twitchell (Ch.3, pg.37).
"On closer examination, the fourth plane appears to be the heaven
for all religions. The followers of Judaism, Islamism, Buddhism,
Taoism, Bahaiism, Jainism, Shintoism, Sikkhism, and Mithraism, to
name but a few, adopt this plane of existence after quitting their
where in Eckankar works is written, that "God and Allah are only as
Fourth Initiate's"? is't in Eckankar Lexicon too?
thank you christel
> <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
> > Hi Liz,
> > Eckankar sees God and Allah (at best) as 4th Plane dieties!
> > and Allah are on the same level of consciousness as is a Fourth
> > Initiate in Eckankar! Therefore, Darrell Johnson's comments
> > Klemp seeing himself as the "Son of God" is rather understated.
> > Klemp uses "common language" as a means to decieve the public.
> > Klemp uses the term "God" he is actually referring to SUGMAD.
> > Klemp defines the Mahanta as being the incarnation of SUGMAD
> > (pg.130, Eckankar Lexicon). In Eckankar the Higher Initiations
> > with the Fifth Plane Initiations. An Eckist with the Fifth
> > Initiation is Higher than God and Allah! Therefore Jesus and
> > Mohammed (and all others) are seen as even lower in
> > than those Eckists on the Fourth Plane! Yet, Klemp even quotes
> > the Christian Bible to further decieve the public of the real
> > and beliefs of Eckankar. If any Eckist would deny this they are
> > either a newer Eckist, don't read much or lack awareness, or
> > are lying!
> > Prometheus
> > Elizabeth wrote:
> > Prometheus wrote:
> > The following Klemp quote was taken from HU-Chat,
> > Eckankar Yahoo Group Site
> > <snipped>
> > Harold's quote:
> > "You never really know your spouse. Love is for relationships.
> > Otherwise you don't need it much. Relationships between people
> > between people and animals.
> > <snipped>
> > *** My comments:
> > While reading from a.r.e. this morning I came across a recent
> > by leaf. I snipped a paragraph below that stood out for me.
> > I find it interesting that Harold spoke at the recent WW; "You
> > really know your spouse. Love is for relationships. Otherwise
> > don't need it much." I wonder if Harold has read the below
> > which was originally posted by Darrell Johnson, Ford Johnson's
> > brother on April 22nd 2004 titled "Eckankar Spiritual Leader
> > Title of Son of God" located at
> > http://environment.news.prweb.com/releases/2004/4/prweb120175.htm
> > Does Eckankar Still Work For The Eckist?
> > <snipped>
> > Do you know the truth about that religion or path?
> > Much like a personal relationship filled with love and devotion,
> > it "works" for both partners when it is based on trust 3/4 truth
> > and love. However, if one partner is unfaithful or has been
> > dishonest about fundamental issues, a relationship that may
> > to pass all the tests cannot do so without fundamental
> > once the deception, the lies and the dishonesty is finally
> > So, the questions that comprise this test presuppose that an
> > affirmative response is based on knowing the real history of the
> > religion and what it represents.
> > *** So Harold's comment seems clear now.... Create that
> > of doubt and suspicion in the members minds about their loved
> > in turn create a stronger reliance on the LEM / Mahanta. You
> > only trust the Mahanta..... so I wonder how many fanatical
> > went home with this quote playing over and over in their minds?
> > Returning home they have been implanted with another
> > techneque, complete love and reliance on that Mythical God
> > Love is for relationships, otherwise you don't need it ["LOVE"]
> > much? Seems BIG Harry has been the unfaithful one in his
> > relationships.... and who really needs him? ;-) NOT ME
> > Liz