Hello Caesi (aka Tigeroverflow; Paulji_teen),
One of the problems, it seems,
is that you only come in to read
"from time to time." You've missed
out on reading more facts and
evidence supporting our comments.
I'll address some of your opinions
below as (ME).
Caesi tigeroverflow wrote:
From time to time I am read this, and read the most recent posts about comments about whether the "path" of ECK is real, and also very negative slanderous / libelous remarks against Harold Klemp, Paul Twitchell, l. Ron Hubbard, et.al.
ME: Twitchell was a liar and a conman,
as was Gross, L. Ron Hubbard and as
is Klemp. One can't get much more
"negative" than these pseudo masters!
Sure the Truth hurts the deluded
sheep, such as yourself, but it's not
slanderous nor libelous. Truth is Truth!
If the goal of the "group" here is to explore spiritual experiences and share, does it need to often take a negative
"tone"? I believe this group serves a valuable purpose. But detouring off on tangents which could get it shut down, or create a legal "mess" for stating accusations against public figure -- unless you have SOLID PROOF - then post it for everyone to see - what is the point? Slander and libel are causable legal actions. Why bring that down on this group?
ME: Perhaps you really should read
more. The introduction to this group
spells it out rather clearly. Our goal
is to discuss, educate, and share our
EKperiences and point out the flaws
in the dogma and various reasons as
to why, in our opinion, Eckankar is
a cult and scam. We don't fear "legal
action" because public figures are
fair game and we have more proof
to disprove their claims than they
do ours. Plus, we are the "victims"
of this scam and were tricked and
cheated out of thousands of dollars!
Your fear tactics, which you have
as a cultist (ECKist), don't
work here. Besides, I really can't wait
to hear testimony by Rebazar Tarzs
and some of the other 500 year old,
and older, ECK Masters who are still
here on earth with "physical bodies."
There are so many other topics that can be discussed openly. Discussing the parallels between Paul's writings and where he possibly sourced the reference material - other paths and religions, other teachings - that educational and "helpful".
ME: This has been discussed and can
be found in the Links and Files. It's
documented proof that Twitchell
Plagiarized much of his material from
"The Path of the Masters." His previous
comments about meeting Sudar/Kirpal
in Paris, France (Paris, Kentucky) has
also been noted. Thus, there was no
first trip to India when PT was 15 years
old. Therefore, the second trip and
the meeting of Rebazar and the continued
did not happen either.
Nor a third trip where PT received the
rest of his initiations 8-12 in circa
Sometimes, I feel like some posters are "splitting hairs". Paul probably did come up with the word "Mahanta". I sense it derived from the word "Mantra". Earlier writings of Paul's talks about chanting the word "Mahanta". Does it really matter what the labels are called?
ME: Your not very aware are you?
It's been pointed out that Twit
found the definition of Mahanta
in the book "The Holy Science"
by Swami Sri Yukteswar of the
Self-Realization Fellowship. On
the introduction page (vi) it
states that, In 1894, when this
book was written" that the author,
Swami Sri Yuketswar was "initiated
into the Swami Order by the
Mahanta (monastery head) of
the Buddha Gaya, Bihar, and took
the monastic name of Sri Yukestwar."
Therefore, Twit lied about Rebazar
and the other masters he
being the "Mahanta" since this
title and position was created by
Twitchell in 1968. Lies built upon
Acknowledging Paul as a genius at self-branding and branding a new path - how many people could not only found a religious path (that is fairly easy), but grow it to the point the seedling actually began to grow at the pace ECKANKAR did? On some level the Universe wanted Paul to be successful.
ME: Twit a Genius? That's a laugh.
You're either deluded, stupid, or
naive! Or, you might be as criminal
as Twit and that's why you're protecting
his PR image.
For me, I don't know about for you all, I find it easy to separate "the path" from the "corporation". Harold Klemp is the legal spiritual leader of the corporation. He is not the path. ECKANKAR path and organization will out-survive him. At best, he is a corporate chairman of the board who is a mouthpiece for the mission of the corporation.
There will be another after him, etc. Most chairmen's of boards know more about the mission statement and how to carry it out, than their boards' directors, officers, and regional heads.
ME: That's part of your problem.
The "Path" doesn't exist. Eckankar
is a "religion" like Scientology and
Mormonism and it's a business just
like all religions. It's even named
Eckankar, Religion of the Light and
Sound of God.
It feels, to me, like we are splitting semantics...
ME: No, we aren't.
BTW- That's "splitting hairs!"
Do most of us agree there is "something" - Inner world experiences tend to stick with us, like strong memories and have impact. TV shows from last night have a different type of stored memory.
Even if you dislike the corporation of ECKANKAR and how it carries out its mission statement - - does it discount the path itself?
ME: Yes! It's dishonest and
is bait and switch! The
that I have to point that out
to you is a "red flag" and is
of concern regarding your
critical thinking and decision
Paul's research tracked similar experiences and beliefs across a number of spiritual paths and teachings. Where they all intersected - that was what he NAMED ECKANKAR. (perhaps altering the name Eckumkar). Many of the experiences, spiritual beings, etc. transcend across paths - and beyond earthworld languaging.
ME: Research! Don't make me laugh.
Paul was a follower of Kirpal Singh
of Radsoami Satsang for ten years.
Kirpal returned PT's "The Tiger's Fang"
manuscript to him in 1966. They had
a falling out because Twit lied his arse
off and embellished everything in the
book. Kirpal, in the book, was in the
earlier role that was later assigned to
Rebazar. Even Klemp pointed out that
at age 27, in 1935, that Twit was lying
to get into Who's Who in
Recently someone commented to me there are more HIs now. I countered with "Really? How can you be 'sure'?" I sure don't know. If spiritual teachers are across all paths and go back to the beginning of time, who is to say? And yes, Paul did brand a set for himself as ECK Masters. (Attempt at humor - do you think the being signed some sort of "exclusive contract" with Paul on the Inner planes?)
ME: It's only logical that there would
be more H.I.s now since not that many
people are recruited or stay. Therefore,
even with HK slowing initiations down,
there would have to be more 5ths.
For me, it's not a situation to 'throw out the baby with the bath water'. Paul delivered hope and acceptance to people who had experiences that either they couldn't explain, or were afraid from. It was a gift he gave to this world, and his writings live on.
ME: It's not about throwing the
baby out with the dirty bath
The foundation of Eckankar is
built upon lies (sand) and these
lies have been accepted as truth
and have become a corrupted
part of people's dreams, thinking,
and mindset in general.
Spiritual Leaders still have human traits while in physical bodies. Undoubtedly, if we want to sit around and put them under a microscope we will find something we can judge them or anyone else for. Is that really how you see yourself growing spiritually - pointing our flaws in others trying to do their best?
ME: You are deluded! You
need religion don't you!
Your weak and need to be
led around by the nose by
some fake master. What was
Twit's promise? Self-Mastery
and Spiritual Liberation in
this lifetime? Yeah right!
Early on, Paul wrote about
The Cliff Hanger who was
his own religion and a law
unto himself. But, Eckists
will never see that they are
their own religion, as well,
need to be followers.
Except, it always easier to
follow than to think for yourself.
Where you put your spiritual attention you go. There is so much that can be learned from Paul and the others. Whatever you want to call your personal spiritual experience, I believe something exists we are all apart of on the other side.
ME: And, thus, you are going nowhere!
You are living in a pretend world constructed
by a liar and conman with a hodgepodge
of mumbo-jumbo and subjective material.
Why believe in others when you can write
your own book by walking your own unique
and individual path? You sound like a sheep
seeking justification to remain in the flock
of lower group consciousness. Besides, those
"initiations" are phony. I'd like to see Klemp
prove that they aren't!
If you don't accept the Chairman of the Board of any corporation - pick any product - or service - do you stop using the product or
service? Unless you are looking at the recent situation with Chik-a-Fil, most people focus on whether they need or want the product or service and couldn't name the Chairman of the Board of the corporation - unless maybe it is Disney, Microsoft, or Apple. Get over Harold Klemp. He's (personality Harold Klemp) is not stopping you from being on the Path - whatever you want to call it. He's a Chairman of a Board of a corporation. Only "you" can stop your spiritual growth in whatever way you want to grow. Pick who you want to study with on the Inner - named or unnamed - and just do it.
ME: "Just do it?" Really?
I don't wear Nikes or EK!
You can't stand it that
your heroes are being
outed for being conmen
and liars. You sound like
EK apologist Doug Marman.
No, we won't take our eye
off the goal of telling the
Truth about the Eckankar
You're playing Klemp's role
down by pretending that he
made outrageous claims
that he'll never be able to prove.
Why is the "Mahanta" still having
ECKists write IROs/HIROs via
snail mail? Why will there be
a 2012 ECK World Wide Seminar
on the Physical and lowest Plane
Why not, at least, have the H.I.
Meeting on the "Inner" somewhere?
But, no, it'll be in the main hall.
BTW- Why is the fearless Mahanta
(Klemp) still have people searched
and going through Metal Detectors
when he gives his Saturday Night
Talk? That's not very detached is it!