----- Forwarded Message -----
From: talrea37 <talrea37@...>
To: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: ZOHAR AND SEPHER more Eck Fiction by Twitchell
> Hello Mish and All,
> Twitchell uses these Qabbala terms
> to create Space
Invaders in this century!
> It seems that Twitchell took these two
> terms, ZOHAR and SEPHER, from Qabbalism
> and then did his EK tweaking or rewrite
> for it to mean whatever he wanted. In
> this case it's to create a new root race
> of Space Aliens... for the 21st Century!
> "According to Eliphas Levi, the three
> greatest books of Qabbalism are the
> Sepher Yetzirah, The Book of Formation;
> the Sepher ha Zohar, The Book of Splendor;
> and the Apocalypse, The Book of Revelation.
> The dates of the writing of these books
> are by no means thoroughly established.
> Qabbalists declare that the Sepher Yetzirah
> was written by Abraham. Although it is
> by far the oldest of the Qabbalistic books,
> it was probably from the pen of the Rabbi
> Akiba, A.D. 120. - Manly P. Hall, The Secret
> Teachings of All Ages
> "SEPHER. The ECK Master who will be responsible
> for the spiritual welfare of the ZOHAR, the
> root race who will colonize the earth after the
> catastrophe in the twenty-first and twenty-
> second centuries." [EK Lexicon, pgs. 186-187]
> "ZOHAR, the. A future ROOT RACE who will
> come from a far distant planet to colonize
> the world after the destruction in the twenty-
> first and twenty-second centuries, BUT they
> will fail and after several centuries will withdraw."
> [EK Lexicon, pg. 243]
> One might ask where Twit got the idea for
> using this Qabbala info. Well, since PT studied
> and plagiarized from "The Path of the Masters"
> in order to help create Eckankar it would seem
> that this book would be a source for him. And,
> it just so happens that Zohar - Book of Splendor
> and the Sepher and the ten
Sephiroth or Splendors
> of the Infinite One are listed here.
> It's really too bad that EKists don't read, study,
> research, and question the info listed in Klemp's
> EK Lexicon and compare that to Twitchell's EK
> Dictionary. Basically, there's just too much crap
> of Twitchell's to go through and change. Although,
> one has to wonder why Klemp didn't do more
> research, himself, before copying most of PT's
> EK Dictionary word for word. Thus, Klemp is now
> the one responsible for what he has placed his
> name to. Klemp, now, needs to explain why these
> Qabbala terms are being used. Also, HK needs
> to explain why he, too, claims that these ZOHAR
> Space Invaders (a new Root Race) will be coming
> to earth in (the later part of?) this Century. Of
> course, that's the Catch-22 for Twitchell and
> Klemp. When one makes Prophecies one
> to make sure that if/when you're proven wrong
> that you'll be long dead!
> BTW- MISH, I agree that dreams are a mixed
> bag of worms. I had a close friend that died
> and had No dream of it happening. I recently
> had another dream where I awoke with the
> words clearly in my mind that "'Jon' has died!"
> However, it wasn't true! That person is still
> alive and well. Basically, dreams can give
> some insights for our own self-analysis
> and self-improvement but beyond that it
> seems to be a waste of time and attention.
> One can and does imagine whatever their
> expectations and subconscious mind tells
> them via imagination and the filling-in of
> mental and emotional gaps or desires.
> Eckankar merely uses DREAMS as a gaff to
> "hook" people and bring them into the org.
> It's just another "tool" from Klemp's tool
> and is used as a distraction, as well as, for
> manipulation purposes. EKists are so busy
> focusing upon, studying, analyzing, and talking
> about their dreams that they are distracted
> from other more important questions... like
> the Zohar!
> Dream study has become big business and
> is complex and confusing. How does one ever
> "Master" dream interpretation? Klemp can
> say that it means this or that, but prove it!
> Actually, with Eckankar, questions about
> "dreams" are the safest ones to ask for an
> ECKist! Look at all of those books and
> discourses and workshops and group discussions
> about dreams. Dreams are a safe topic because
> there are no "wrong" questions. The only "wrong"
> answer is that dreams aren't all that important!
> Thus, the dream "hook" Eckankar uses becomes
> less attractive, meaningful,
and useful for the
> really dedicated Spiritual-Truth Seeker who
> no longer has a need of trying to get around
> the dream censor in order to find some "higher"
> spiritual truth or meaning for their lives. Those
> caught up with finding bits and pieces of Truth
> through Dream interpretation are using out-dated
> and lower Mental Plane tools which equate to
> being a scam. Didn't Brad Steiger write about
> dreams, UFOs, and Bigfoot?
> Dreams, for Klemp, are used merely as another
> Bait and Switch product that is used to get people
> in the door and then to distract and brain-wash
> them with the imaginary "as if" technique (among
> Mish, I like what you said (below):
> "Looking for security in our beliefs or even
> trying to find a base for our spiritual beliefs,
> yes, we can end up with the "herd
> And in eckankar, if you weren't a sheep to
> begin with, you become exactly that with all
> the fears and controls that keep chelas manipulated
> and trapped in the org! One gets in so deep
> that one fears leaving, and will fight to the
> bitter end to hold onto the brass ring! : )
> Yes, that brass ring equates to the initiations
> and the first one (they say) is received in a dream!
> Of course, one is likely to dream of seeing an
> ECK Master when their pictures have been shown
> to you and it is suggested that they will show
> up in your dreams.... auto-suggestion or self-
> hypnosis goes a long way in making Eckankar
> "work." Grabbing at straws and mustard seeds
> of faith is all that any religion has ever needed
> to maintain a base of "followers" for the leaders
> to use up and lord over.
> mish wrote:
> I found a message, commenting on an
> old thread from this message board in
> my email. I don't know who this "john"
> is or why he was compelled to send me
> a private email?? I'm not even sure what
> he is disagreeing about? But his comments
> are the same old rhetoric that many eckists
> have been brainwashed to mumble about
> dreams and dreaming.
> He is trying to explain the importance of
> dreams and obviously thinks that eckists
> have the inside tract on dreams and
> deciphering them. Well, hello, most of us
> do dream and dream on a regular basis.
> WHAT I DISAGREE WITH john's defense
> of needing to remember dreams and waking
> up during the night to write them down
> is this. . . Dreams are only one part or
> segment of our lives . . . I do agree
> are important . . . but the heavy emphasis
> on dreams takes the dreamer out of the
> "in real life" living . . . It is not necessary
> to remember all dreams so I think it is
> a good idea to just go to sleep and not
> worry about what one dreams . . . if it
> is important, trust me, you will remember
> it when you wake up.
> Also, this practice of writing down dreams
> during the night's sleep activity impedes
> the natural flow of dreaming . . . so I would
> be concerned that a message, an important
> message, could be lost. And the dreamer
> would instead substitute and use his imagination
> to create his own dream symbols and not
> let Spirit deliver what Spirit so divinely is
> trying to convey to the dreamer.
> Important dreams do not need wild
> interpretations because they are usually
direct and straight forward. Looking for
> signs and symbols just misleads one
> down a wrong path. Valuable time is
> wasted . . . but this is what eckankar does
> . . . it wastes the chelas' time!
> Yes, dreams can give warnings or help
> one understand things better but trying
> to capture every dream one dreams in
> a night time and remembering it is like
> collecting wheat and leaving the chafe
> with it. Rather than doing all that, it is
> important to get a good night's sleep,
> enjoy one's dreams peacefully and not
> worry about jarring oneself awake to
> record them . . . for fear of forgetting
> . . . this is just too nutty!
> For the record, I dream and I utilize
> my dreams but I don't stress myself
> about remembering them . . . I do
> remember the ones that really stand
> out . . . and there is "no
trick" in having
> to understand them unless you're the
> type of individual that needs to have
> a hammer hit you between your eyes
> in order to get your attention!! LOL!
> Here's the message from john whoever he is . . .
> Thursday, October 1, 2009 9:52 PM
> From: "johnwes2789"
> To: "mishmisha9"
> I disagree. Dreams are very important to
> us and guide me in my everyday life. The
> trick is to understand what they mean. Very
> often we can not take dreams literally but
> many images are symbolic. For example
> driving in my car may symbolize my astral,
> causal, etheric or soul body. Flying usually
> symbolizes me soul body. The reason we
> should write our dreams as soon as we can
> remember them is because if we wait until
> morning, we will have forgotten them and
> it will be too late.
The dream is gone and
> most likely the spiritual message is lost too.
> mish wrote:
> > >
> Hi, Freefrom and All!
> > >
> Good posts on this topic. Freefrom, you have really stated it
> succinctly and zoned in on the key reasons people are drawn into
> such deceptions as in Eckankar!
> > >
> Freefrom eckchains wrote:
> > > >
> LOL Yes, I agree. It's the old, it's too absurd to be true, so
> therefore it must be true! How could someone have made all of this
> stuff up? No one would be so dishonest as to just make all of this
> stuff up, right? Wrong. Let's face it, the ability to lie and
> act "as if" is a very human trait.
> > >
> Mish: It's called being creative and imaginative! LOL! Dreams are
> real, etc. Dreams can be real, but yet we must discern and
> discriminate in figuring
out what is garbage and what is not.
> Eckists seem to want to "live" their dreams, and will make decisions
> solely based on what they "perceive" on the inner. Well, one must be
> careful here . . .
> The problem with falling for dishonest people's spills is that we
> want to believe that people are truthful and honest at heart and
> would not be out to take advantage of us or cause us harm. A person
> like PT probably thought that his lies would not be that harmful
> (criminal) to those he duped, so why not? Big lie vs. little lie;
> big harm vs. little harm--and of course, if people are dumb/foolish
> enough to believe this crap, well why not--it is the listener's
> responsibility to not be deceived, etc.
> > >
> Many eckists justify continuing with the false teachings of eckankar
> because they feel that they are benefiting from the teachings,
regardless of the lies and deceptions. How often do we hear that a
> person learned so many valuable things while in eckankar; therefore,
> it is just fine to continue misleading individuals? the end
> justifies the means--but isn't this exactly the way people are
> manipulated and controlled? This is what keeps eckists in the org!
> They settle for imperfection while searching for spiritual truths
> and enlightenment--but the imperfections actually doom attaining the
> goal! How can one find spiritual truth when one is basing it on lies?
> > >
> I think Harold Klemp uses all of the above to continue the lies and
> deceptions. And many eckists believe that Harold lives a humble
> life, and fail to realize that he is reaping the wealth with a very
> nicely secured bank account and investments, and I'm sure he does
> live much better than he suggests in his talks. Why does
he do this?
> To deceive and to encourage his chelas to live solely for the
> mahanta in order to continue to give and give! Some individuals
> believe that possessing the material or living too comfortably gets
> in the way of spiritual growth--this seems to be taught in eckankar.
> The poorer you are, the more evolved you are?? This is still another
> lie aimed at duping individuals to stay on the path. Picture Harold as
> a Clark Kent type who turns into Superman. Underneath those
> polyester suits and cheap ties, there is a different animal in
> different clothes. Of course, I don't mean that he is a "good"
> superman! : )
> > >
> > >
> Freefrom: "It takes guts and courage to be honest."
> > >
> Mish: You know I think we BELIEVE "it takes guts and courage to be
> honest." But in truth, it is the much easier road to take! 1.
Standing up and admitting a mistake often surprises people and they
> appreciate the honesty, so it is the best way to diffuse a
> misunderstanding or an error in behavior, etc. 2. For myself, I feel
> much better being honest than trying to live a lie!
> > >
> Freefrom: "Those who stay with eckankar are still stuck in the herd
> mentality, like sheep. It's a kind of self-deception and false
> > >
> Mish: Looking for security in our beliefs or even trying to find a
> base for our spiritual beliefs, yes, we can end up with the "herd
> mentality." And in eckankar, if you weren't a sheep to begin with,
> you become exactly that with all the fears and controls that keep
> chelas manipulated and trapped in the org! One gets in so deep that
> one fears leaving, and will fight to the bitter end to hold onto the
> brass ring! : )
> Prometheus: "On the other hand, Twitch could have been playing with
> us and did this as a game of sorts. Twitch was clever and
> egotistical, and this might have been his way of having the last
> laugh on those followers and critics who were more educated
> (Ph.Ds, MDs, DDS)."
> > >
> Mish: Yes, I agree that PT was having good sport with people and
> that fooling people fed his ego! He found a dishonest way to dupe
> people and make a living, while pretending to be a great spiritual
> leader! I suppose he did believe some of it, because in the
> beginning he was a seeker himself, however, he evolved into a
> monster when he realized what he could do with his made up religion.
> He chose the dark side of the force, so to speak! : )
> > >
> Leigh wrote: "So often in the past six years
> I've seen people expressing the view that a lot
of the junk was
> consciously engineered. I think this gives the people we're
> talking about WAY too much credit for being clever. I think far more
> often (particularly when you look at the volume of stuff) it's a
> case of someone spitting out something their mind had thrown up at
> them to experience. This makes them a double dupe, really. First
> they cram their mind full of stuff, then it kicks it back to them as
> best it can, and THEN they believe it, as is, without any critical
> review !"
> > >
> Mish: I agree with Leigh here as well. I believe that many
> individuals are using various resources such as self-publising
> books, setting up websites, doing workshops and seminars to "sell"
> junk to the public. It's all around us more than ever today with the
> fast speed of communications! Many people are buying into all kinds
> of stuff, conspiracy
theories, mind control, healings, etc. Cram
> enough into your mind as Leigh states and critical thinking goes out
> the door. We lose our talent to discriminate truth from fiction.
> > >
> Anyway, very good discussions and comments. Thanks everyone!
> > >