Does Doug Kunin have a chance at becoming the next LEM?
I've heard that some ESC staffers would like to see someone
younger than Don Ginn or Peter Skelsky take over as Top Dog.
However, many of the female staffers would like to see Joan
become the LEM or even Co-LEM! Basically, any action or change
by Klemp will be seen as positive. However, IF Joan was
made LEM or Co-LEM this could (possibly) open the door
for FEMALES to become "FULL" MAHANTAS too!
The Mahanta can change the old ECK Dogma/rule via Catch-22!
According to PT's explanation Males have "atoms" that are
Positive and Females have "atoms" that are Negative and this
factor is WHY Female ECKists Cannot be a LEM in these Negative
Worlds of KAL.
Don't Two Negatives = a Positive?
Negative Female Atoms existing in the Lower Negative Worlds
of KAL would seem to have a Positive Effect! Maybe this is WHY
there are so many wars and so much Negativity! The Male "Positive"
Atoms are in opposition with the "Negative" Worlds of KAL.
Therefore, PT and the rest of the Male political & religious leaders
got it wrong! I wonder... WHY didn't they see this before? Maybe
they don't want to Let Go of their power over females? It does
make it convenient for any group... to automatically have control
over Half of the population!
> WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO THE MAHANTA CONSCIOUSNESS ???
> PT Defined It and Klemp Eliminated This Definition! WHY?
> Twitchell defines "Mahanta Consciousness" in his ECKANKAR
> Dictionary, but Klemp deletes this reference in the EK Lexicon.
> Look at Klemp's Lexicon and all one can find is the definition
> for the "Mahanta" 14th Initiate. I thought the Mahanta Con.
> was supposed to be more impersonal and intangible.
> PT: "Mahanta Consciousness - The spiritual leader,
> or Godman; head of ECK;
> [ME: Well! That's not impersonal or intangible either!
> No wonder HK makes a distinction between the "full"
> 14th initiate LEM/Mahanta versus the 12th or 13th
> (in training) Mahanta]
> all those who come to him in the present age have been
> with him since their advent into the world;
> [ME: This must be true for DG's initiates too? Shame
> on you Mr. Klemp for biting the hand that passed you
> the "ROD!" Afterall, RT chose PT, and RT/PT/GT
> chose DG, and DG (out of love) handed you the Rod!]
> the body of the Mahanta is the ECK, which is the essence
> of God flowing out from the Ocean of Love and Mercy,
> sustaining all life and tying together all forms;
> [ME: the definition for "spiritual hierarchy" lists the Mahanta
> third and after the ECK. Besides, how can the ECK be limited
> by a number like 14th Plane? Also, the "ANAMI LOK" is where
> SUGMAD resides and it's the 10th Plane! (pg. 9, EK Lexicon).
> How can the Mahanta be 14th Plane when Sugmad resides on
> the 10th Plane?!]
> the Vi-Guru, the Light Giver; a state of God Consciousness
> which is beyond the titles given in religions which designate
> states of consciousness; the highest of all states of consciousness."
> [ME: Paul had to one-up Radhasoami ("Path of the Masters") and
> Ruhani Satsang (Kirpal Singh) in order to be "Top Dog". Afterall,
> you're not going to Buy or Invest in something if it's not the very
> "Best" and "Fastest" are you?]
> Yes, by now (after 25 years) there should be: 33,333 6th EK Initiates;
> 3,333 7ths; 333 8ths; 33 9ths! Klemp has fallen down on the job
> and has focused upon building monuments to his ego!
> Darwin may have been a big spender, but at least he wasn't
> stingy with initiations, and neither was Paul!
> So, there will probably be a big buzz at the up and coming
> 2007 EWWS (not to be confused with the EWS, or ECK Worship
> ECKists will be talking... is this the Year for a Change in
> Leadership... Finally!!! Will ECKists have a leader that won't
> be a simpleton or a nerdy looking recluse and an embarrassment
> to Vahanas?
> When comparing HK to GW one has to admit that ANY CHANGE
> would be for the better... even if HK remains as the "full" (FMOC)
> Or, will Klemp disapoint Chelas once again with a new ploy
> (delay tactic) and new distractions (buildings, books, etc.)?
> Yes, ECKists will be "challenged" by the I-35 Bridge Collapse
> and the Airlines reducing plane size and customers flying
> into Minneapolis, but this just puts them into the same boat
> as others... it's called life! Therefore this is not a "special"
> event created by the Kal nor a special circumstance (test)
> for ECKists alone! WAKE UP ECKIES AND LOOK AROUND AT
> OTHER PEOPLE... THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS YOUR BELIEF!!!
> Really, ECKists are vain and live in a bubble! Look around
> and get out of your shells! Don't limit your thinking to ECK
> Dogma and to EK religious belief that isolates you from life
> experiences and having compassion and empathy of others.
> You are no more "special" than any other Soul... and don't
> think you're more "advanced" because someone has told
> you so, or trained you to jump though hoops for initiations!
> WAKE UP TO THE REAL TRUTH! YOU ARE SPIRITUALLY FREE NOW!
> mish wrote:
> > LET'S DISCUSS KLEMP MORE! WHAT'S WRONG WITH
> > HIM AND ALL HIS FOIBLES AS A SELF-PROCLAIMED
> > GODMAN! IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT TWITCHELL!
> > For me, actually, eckankar is just a man-made new
> > age religion. Why and what Twitchell did in creating it
> > can be debated until the cows come home. Everyone
> > interested in this strange little known cult the least
> > little bit takes one side or the other in the debate which
> > basically comes down to how important or insignificant
> > the plagiarisms and lies are to the eckankar teachings.
> > Those who remain in eckankar have chosen to miminalize
> > the fraud that has taken place and are quite confortable
> > to remain in the delusion and illusion of the eck teachings.
> > They support Klemp as he continues the lies and deceptions,
> > keeping silent as he also molds eckankar to fit his
> > narrow-minded, anti-social and narcissistic personality.
> > Many eckists become like him which is not something one
> > should really strive for! : )
> > But to take this to a present day discussion, why do we not,
> > meaning eckists and non-eckists alike debate the leadership
> > of Klemp??? Klemp has been the mahanta/L.E.M. far longer
> > than his predecessors, their years combined. It seems to me
> > that we need to look long and hard at what Klemp has done
> > and is doing since taking the reins of eckankar and shaping it
> > into his creation. To me, what eckankar is today is greatly flawed
> > by Klemp's shifty hands! He is no godman--how can anyone
> > consider such a silly, nerdy looking and odd speaking man a
> > god incarnate? Just looking at him and listening to his stupid
> > talks makes the whole org look ridiculous!! He's a joke and
> > there's nothing special or original about him! LOL!
> > My guess is that many long time eckists are waiting, still
> > waiting, for the winds of change to happen--when Klemp
> > either steps down or is removed from his throne. I believe
> > that many of the true eckists are just waiting for a power
> > shift in leadership which they hope will then bring the outer
> > org in line with what they are feeling/experiencing on their
> > inner! They are hopeful that eckankar will become the
> > religion they have longed for! : )
> > Klemp must fear these patient chelas very much, and thus, he
> > has slowed down the initiations in order to remain in control.
> > It seems this is the true reason for being stingy about the
> > initiations! Klemp is a stingy and fearful little old man--he
> > is no guru or godman! So again I ask, why not discuss Klemp,
> > and let Twitchell be for the most part? Let's get to the heart of
> > the matter which is what Klemp is doing with eckankar! The
> > continuing discussions about how eckankar began and how
> > Twitchell established it, speculating on his motivations, etc.
> > are all distractions from what needs to be analyzed today--
> > that being Harold Klemp and what he has done to eckankar!
> > My gut feeling is that Twitchell would not be happy with what
> > Harold has done to his creation! LOL!
> > BTW, I didn't leave eckankar because of David Lane's book-I
> > haven't read it. I left because of Ford Johnson's "Confessions
> > of a God Seeker." Many eckists left after becoming aware of
> > Ford's book. No need to give Lane all the credit. Others have left
> > because they saw through the veil of illusion--they knew
> > something wasn't right in belonging to the eck cult and they
> > hit the road on their own! There are many reasons and ways
> > that one can wake up to the truth about eckankar . . . and get
> > out! : )
> > Mish
> > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
> > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I was thinking about what Klemp said about Gross
> > > holding onto the Rod of ECK Power beyond his time
> > > and was, therefore, "burned" by it.
> > >
> > > If this is true that Gross should have passed the Rod
> > > to Klemp in 1980 (or to someone else) can Eckists,
> > > then, really blame Gross (for his actions) anymore than
> > > they could blame Klemp for slowing their spiritual growth
> > > (initiations)? What is more important for ECKists? Fiscal
> > > Responsibility, Buildings, or Initiations? I was, mostly,
> > > focused on spiritual growth... Initiations!
> > >
> > > Actually, Klemp has more blame by hanging onto
> > > this Power way longer than any 20th Century LEM,
> > > and for delaying and limiting initiations. There should
> > > be at least 33 9ths, 333 8ths, and 3,333 7ths after
> > > 25 years of "leadership." Sure, this would make the org
> > > very "top heavy" but so what! It should be! Aren't Eckists
> > > supposed to be the "cream of the crop?" Why then don't
> > > the initiations reflect this? See, this is just one of
> > > many reasons why the long-time Eckists want to see
> > > Klemp step down.
> > >
> > > HK restructured the org and moved the headquarters
> > > in order to have Total Control over the EK Board of
> > > Trustees. The RESA structure is the extended arm of
> > > this control.
> > >
> > > What were viewed as inappropiate actions by Gross
> > > were really just the "effects" of hanging onto the Rod
> > > beyond his time. DG's rationale and thinking was off
> > > balance and askewed. Consideration and understanding
> > > are still lacking for this phenomonia of holding onto
> > > the "Rod" beyond the time the LEM should. Klemp is
> > > still holding a grudge!
> > >
> > > Even today, the RESA police spy on Eckists with informers
> > > as they ferret out those who are Not supposed to even
> > > speak Darwin's name! And, let's face it, there will never
> > > be discussions of the "positive" elements concerning those
> > > 10 lost years of EK History. This is extremely strange since
> > > most Higher Initiates (6-14) have most of their initiations
> > > from those 10 years under Gross!
> > >
> > > Klemp's chelas, from Oct. 22, 1981, are mostly 4ths and
> > > 5ths! Let's face it, according to EK Dogma Chelas, H.I.s
> > > are Not Established on the SOUL PLANE "until" they have
> > > become 6ths!
> > >
> > > This 6th initiation is the "proof" that they have completed
> > > all of the trials and tests for the 5th initiation. I wonder
> > > if this was always the case? Or, did Klemp redefine this
> > > dogma (with these restrictions) "after" he slowed the
> > > initiations down?
> > >
> > > Therefore, Klemp might want to hold onto his MAHANTA
> > > position, until, he can get the majority of "his" Chelas to
> > > the 6th initiation. Maybe this is why he slowed initiations
> > > down in the first place? Maybe it was used as a ploy, along
> > > with building structures, to insure that he would need to
> > > be the LEM and/or Mahanta for 25-30 years or longer!
> > >
> > > Yes, Klemp is very selfish and has done ECK Chelas an
> > > even greater injustice than Gross ever did. Klemp's focus
> > > has been on the tangible instead of the intangible.
> > >
> > > Prometheus