I see that the H.I. Kal-Eckist Cheryl is now being mean,
nasty, and negative with those chelas on CHELA-CHAT.
Klemp just can't control her can he! You'd think that
someone at the ESC would be in charge. Yes, it seems
Klemp's talk about doing something about those H.I.
Foxes outside of the ECKANKAR Henhouse must be
more cheap talk! That's one of the "problems" Klemp
has always had... Not implementing, especially in a timely
manner, and Not following-thru.
Maybe HK's comments from the 12/2006 H.I. Letter will be
studied, and discussed (for awhile longer). Some suggestions
will probably be mailed to RESAs and RESA Services. I'm sure
that this H.I. Fox problem Will Not take the usual Five Years
to be resolved. Instead, my prediction is that this H.I.
KAL-ECK 'FOX' situation will continue to be ignored but
Not forgotten as long as KAL-ECK Vahanas Rich and Cheryl
> Here's Rich's (Cyber-Sailor's) view of the vast plagiarisms embedded
> in the eckankar teachings/org from A.R.E.:
> "the 'vision' is sometimes muddied by those perceiving the
> form as plagiarism, and thus to be rejected in a cloud of skepticism
> and a cynical limited view."
> It seems that Rich is having a difficult time defending the lies
> so he throws insults to those of us who are more interested in the
> Truth than lies. Fascinating, how all of these lies are sooooo unimportant
> to eckists like Rich who cling to them for lack of better things to do???
> Yet, it does seem it bothers him--the critical analysis of eckankar! : )
> The problem that Rich and other eckists have is that they have
> accepted a very "limited" view by buying into the eck dogma
> and lies. Their egos cannot let it go--hence, no real spiritual
> growth is being attained. They're stuck--just as the lying, manipulating
> Klemp wants it. They are like putty in his hands. A very sorry
> state of consciousness--or should I say unconsciousness???
> Eckists would do well to develop some skeptical (questioning) talents
> before buying through faith the unknown and unprovened crap that
> religions like eckankar sell! There is nothing cynical about being
> a critical thinker.
> --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
> "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> > I will, also, admit that meditation/contemplation and
> > chanting does help to settle the mind and helps me to
> > come in touch with my higher Self. This allows for or
> > opens the door for more clarity in perspective and insight,
> > especially, when a question or more specific information
> > is sought. It is also used as a conduit with Spirit. This is
> > how the HU helped me to become aware of the untruths
> > that PT tied together and 'compiled' to create ECKANKAR.
> > ECKists then and now put a divine perspective, or slant,
> > on anything coming out of their Master's mouth. The non-
> > attached observer will find this quite amusing since any and
> > all "proof" of Higher Consciousness in ECKANKAR is subjective!
> > Objective proof of Higher Consciousness comes from behaviour
> > and in how ECK H.I.s deal with ordinary life "problems," and
> > relationships. The ethical and moral standards, as well as, the
> > ability to empathize and relate (understand) must have the
> > bar set higher for anyone (H.I.s) referred to as "enlightened."
> > However, nasty H.I. Vahanas like Rich and Cheryl, (on HU-
> > Chant, Chela-Chat, and A.R.E.) are clear and objective proof
>> that the ECK Higher Initiations are a fraud. This also proves
>> that the promise of the Mahanta being 'Always With You' is
>> a lie too!
> > Isn't Klemp aware of what these representatives of ECKANKAR
> > are doing? Why aren't these KAL-FOXES expelled?! If HK does
> > know of and approves of their Negative Comments, Mean
> > Spirited demeanor and Profanity then Klemp too is of the KAL!
> > When Klemp isn't aware of the thoughts, words, and deeds
> > of his Higher Initiates then he is a liar and of the KAL. And,
> > this means that HK cannot know who is qualified to be a High
> > Initiate! This means that the ECK Dogma covering the Mahanta's
> > abilities on the INNER is a lie too!
> > So, we have both a subjective and objective criteria to use
> > in determining our individual and group reality and
> > consciousness. There must be balance between the two of
> > course, or problems (imbalance) arise.
> > Our subjective reality is crucial as to how we externalize our
> > beliefs in this outer objective world. The "problem" here comes
> > from what we accept consciously and subconsciously and,
> > therefore, create (via ego or its surpression) from the beliefs
> > and suggestions of others. [Of course, physical laws have their
> > own influence as well.] ECKists have bought into a 'compiled'
> > religious Dogma and are encouraged to imagine or pretend
> > 'as if' what comes to them (below) is from a higher consciousness
> > (above). Yet, ECKists do not and cannot demonstrate the
> > higher values required of them.
> > Some ECKists, like Klemp, will withdraw from the field of action
> > where spiritual growth is expanded. They avoid personal contact
> > with others and personal experiences because they fear failure.
> > Klemp has an "image" to maintain. He, also, can't handle real
> > people, and doesn't want too much contact with regular people
> > who don't know who he is and, thereby, don't worship him or
> > have him up on a pedestal. The same goes for many of the 7th,
> > 8th, and 9th Initiates. Hide away and you don't have to worry
> > about losing your cool and having ECK witnesses!
> > However, it is through failure and mistakes (problems) that we
> > learn. Ask any scientist or entrepreneur how much failure is
> > required via the "creative flow" that eventually leads to success.
> > Isn't this physical experience referred to as: The Testing Ground
> > for Soul?
> > Therefore, Klemp's response to 'IGNORE THE PROBLEMS' is one
> > of Avoidance and is Unsupportive to others, and denies spiritual
> > growth. HK's response Lacks Insight! It also Lacks Empathy and
> > is Vain, Unloving, and Inconsiderate. It shows that he's (once
> > again) Not Listening! The really sad thing is that this is what he's
> > teaching his Chelas. It's no wonder ECKANKAR has H.I. Foxes
> > like Rich and Cheryl!
> > Prometheus
> > prometheus wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi All,
> > > I'd like to thank the HU-Chat ECKist for posting another stupid
> > > Klemp quote. Since we don't know the entire context of the quote
> > > it must be assumed that we (the reader) determine what it is and
> > > what value and meaning it has for us.
> > >
> > > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's life.
> > > Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the problems.
> > > I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts through all this
> > > stuff." [Harold Klemp, Mahanta Transcripts Book 10, page 222]
> > >
> > > For one thing, I doubt that a real person has a "hundred different
> > > problems" in their life. Maybe Klemp is thinking of the "problems"
> > > in his life! I'm not even sure if I can come up with "a hundred" items
> > > if I combined my "to do" list with my "wish" list! LOL! What an idiot!
> > > Obviously Klemp can't relate to real people (Souls) living in the "real"
> > > world. He's hidden himself away and is out-of-touch with reality.
> > > Once again, Klemp demonstrates that he has no empathy and is all
> > > talk. Maybe in some past life HK was a better (more honest) man
> > > than he is today, but the talk of knowing what others are experiencing
> > > and of walking in their "moccasins" does not apply to him. He is just
> > > too unstable, out-of-balance and deluded. He gives advice that he
> > > doesn't follow himself. Klemp is not a listener nor does he know
> > > much about human love and healthy, stable family relationships let
> > > alone divine love! Unfortunately, most ECKists don't have healthy
> > > and loving family relationships either! One must know something
> > > about the "lower" expressions of love before acquiring a knowingness
> > > of the "higher" ones and of "divine love." Avoidance is just another
> > > form of denial and lacks harmony and balance which blocks the
> > > love waves and the spiritual vibrations that allow one to experience
> > > higher awareness.
> > >
> > > I really like Klemp's comments of: "I ignore the problems. I try to
> > > show them the way of divine love." And yet, Klemp makes "loser"
> > > comments and attacks a "fill-in" Postal Clerk on Joan's behalf and
> > > demonstrates via other comments that he is a liar and a KAL agent!
> > >
> > > "Once you've established the correct relationship between yourself
> > > and God, then you're able to go back out into the world and serve
> > > all God's creatures. And you will serve with love, kindness, compassion,
> > > and understanding. Because you've walked in those moccasins before,
> > > you can help others by listening." [From: Spiritual Wisdom on Health
> > > and Healing by Harold Klemp]
> > >
> > > Yes, listening to Klemp's words reminds me of G.W.'s "State Of The
> > > Union" address. Both men have a lot of in common! The sad thing
> > > is HK wiil think that this comparison to G.W. is a compliment!
> > >
> > > Prometheus
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Non ekster wrote:
> > > >
> > > This is so typical of the eckist and other New Age philosophies.
> > > Ignore anything that is unpleasant, go into denial, and then when
> > > reality kicks you in the ass, then just label it as bad karma or the
> > > work of satan or kal. The truth is, Klemp does not really follow this
> > > advise when it comes to keeping the cash flow going or in increasing
> > > membership levels. He is actually quite ruthless in his tactics. The
> > > advise quoted is for the typical eckankult follower, not for the
> > > deceiver, Klemp.
> > > >
> > > Noneckster
> > > >
> > > mishmisha wrote:
> > > > >
> > > "There might be a hundred different problems in the person's
> > > life. Instead of wondering which one to tackle first, I ignore the
> > > problems. I try to show them the way of divine love. Love cuts
> > > through all this stuff." by Harold Klemp: The Drumbeat of Time,
> > > Mahanta Transcripts, Book 10, page 222
> > > > >
> > > HK's quote is posted on HuChat--what the heck is this suppose
> > > to mean?? The solutions to problems are to just ignore them?
> > > How nutty is that?
> > > > >
> > > I understand why HK stays basically hidden in Chanhassen.
> > > In the real world, he couldn't make it. He couldn't hold a real
> > > job or get along with normal people, if his way of dealing with
> > > problems are to ignore them by talking about divine love! All
> > > talk and no action just doesn't cut in the real world. I think
> > > HK checked out of reality a long, long time ago!
> > > > >
> > > Mish
> > >