Yes, it seems that Klemp is keeping the troops confused, guessing,
and off balance - S.O.P.! Too bad that the "Law of Silence" prevents
further discussion. However, the Eckist can always take it to "The
Mahanta, the Inner Master" and imagine their answer/experience and
write their own script. This is what Graham Forsyth did while using
charged words like HU! What and whose experience is more valid? Does
one need a letter from Klemp to now verify an "Inner" experience!
Actually, there was something else in that quote from "A Profile Of
ECKANKAR" on "Homosexuality," from page 20, that I'd like to
"Personality traits and sexual habits are not related to spiritual
Remember, Klemp helped to write this in 1979!
I believe that "Personality traits" can hinder spiritual unfoldment
and "sexual habits" can also hinder spiritual growth as well! I
think that we can all come up with examples of various personality
and sexual disorders that are detrimental to others in society!
Klemp and Gross were just covering and justifying for their own past
and current behaviors when this was written (C.Y.A.)!
I think that it does seem interesting that straight female and gay
Eckists will leave gender behind when they are established on the
Soul (5th) Plane. This means that they must reach the 6th Initiation
first. However, as long as they manitain a physical (lower) body
they will be limited, except, through their imaginations!
Eckankar promotes a disdain and limiting view of physical existence!
I'm surprised that there aren't more suicides by Eckists! However,
there are many Eckists that just give up on life. They also tend to
self-treat and self-diagnose with a passive attitude of - Oh well,
the next life as a Governor of an Astral region (TM), kicking around
in the God Worlds, being an Eck Master or whatever, will be better!
Yes, delusion is alive and well within Twitchell's Eckankar scam!
p.s. What ever happened to Jerry Leonard? He used to have Peter's
job until when... 1986?
I enjoyed reading your perspective and it got me to thinking about
these other angles of HK's message. And, I never saw a "Gay"
connection before. The Yahoo Group for Gay Eckists is now
called "Soul Equals Soul" instead of "Souls Like Us."
Liz: The reason I even mentioned the idea of gender, with a gay
connection is because my hubby and I had attended a workshop at the
2000 WW seminar that ended up focusing on this topic. I honestly can
not recall the title of the workshop, it had *Love* in the title,
and physical relationships, it also touched on only men becoming the
LEM. Because the subject matter was so interesting, the
facilitator invited all of us back the following day to continue
This was my husbands first WW. So we went to workshops for
newcomers. In attendance was a *couple*; one dressed like the
female, the other dressed like the male. (Both were girls) I don't
believe the facilitator expected the discussion would end up being
about gender. And in my experience, when people use the word gender
in a conversation with no distinction between male or female,
*gender* being used usually to describe same sex couples. (maybe
this is a mid western thing?)
There were some interesting questions, and although I won't go into
them, this subject is worth putting under the microscope as Mish and
Prometheus have pointed out the obvious slant toward HK changing the
requirements of a female becoming a co LEM / FLEM.
These two young ladies arrived at the workshop the following day,
with their persona reversed. The one that was female the day before
was now dressed as the male in a very nice suit, and the other as
the female dressed in a very nice dress and a long flowing wig.
[P]: I knew several Gay Eckists while a member. It "seems" Klemp
does not look upon Gays with the same negativity of Twitchell or
Liz: I would agree with that, but to anyone that is a gay male, does
he still stand a chance at LEM? If HK were confronted with that
question, what would he say? Hmmmm, ummmm, clear his throat a few
dozen times before trying to come up with an answer... maybe one
reason he doesn't allow for off the cuff Q & A time from his
captive audience during the seminars?
I have known several gay eck couples too. Grew up with two sets of
them in our community, then a few when I lived in Phoenix and
Louisiana. At least in eckankar many of the gender benders feel
comfortable enough to be who they really are at the seminars. Then
there are those that still keep it in the closet. The fact is, HK
will not *lift up* an unknown eck chela, and there is no one in the
works that *wasn't quit ready yet for the Rod of Power* as he spoke
of a few years ago at his WW talk, unless of course he was hinting
at Joan?! (I believe it was the 2003 WW?) And no the next LEM
isn't going to be someone that isn't an eckist yet like he also
As Mish and Prometheus have shown, it is non other than HK's wife
Joan, the next Co LEM / FLEM of the Entire Universe. Will Peter ever
get his due.....
Speaking of Peter, has he adopted any more kids from China? A really
expensive endeavor, that most regular people can't afford to do.
Membership funds and corp. jet flying them to and from? Just