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• ... Group Well been considering the analogy Flash Boiler ....... Perhaps a better choice would have been a bit of a description. Imagine a linear ribbed
Message 1 of 23 , Jul 25, 2008
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--- On Fri, 7/25/08, Bill Williams <vipond50@...> wrote:

Group
Well been considering the
analogy "Flash Boiler"....... Perhaps a better choice would
have been a bit of a description. Imagine a linear ribbed Heated
plate tipped at a slight angle, A liquid with made up of two
components is dripped or flowed on the the upper end of the inclined
plate. The temp of the plate is so to vaporized only one of the
components and the balance is flowed off to a containment ( bottom of
boiler or waste ). If the plates are sized correctly the first
component will be remove and the second could be discharged as
waste.
With this type of design the temp would have to be closely
controlled and may not be practical for the home distiller, but
interesting to say the least.
Boy.... I bet i get it for this one LOL

Regards
Bill

******************************************
My initial perspective of this one is that it parallels the concept of holding the boiler's temperature at exactly the boiling temperature of ethanol and therefore extracting only ethanol from the mix.

On the other hand, it could potentially be a horizontal analog to the analyzer portion of a continuous still.

Either way, is that it's only a part of the equation and the other portion is the condenser. If you're running a direct condenser (i.e. condensing all the vapors in one shot) then you have the makings of a pot still and with a column with surface area and reflux will yield a fractionating/reflux still...just with the advantage of a continuous boiler.

I say go for it. I'm all about the "what happens if I...?"

Trid
-what's *this* button do?
• ... of holding the boiler s temperature at exactly the boiling temperature of ethanol and therefore extracting only ethanol from the mix. Which of course is a
Message 2 of 23 , Jul 25, 2008
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--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Trid <triddlywinks@...> wrote:

> My initial perspective of this one is that it parallels the concept
of holding the boiler's temperature at exactly the boiling
temperature of ethanol and therefore extracting only ethanol from the
mix.

Which of course is a false premise, and one of the hardest myths to
dispel in this game. Let me elaborate on why you can't selectively
extract only ethanol & leave only water by regulating the heat input.

Both water and ethanol will be extracted at ALL temperatures above
the freezing point of water. Why? Because moving molecules collide
and transfer energy, enough to break the molecular bonds
(aka 'hydrogen bonding') of the water & ethanol. Breaking these
bonds allows some molecules of both substances to escape to the
atmosphere. The process is called EVAPORATION**.

Distillation as we know it is just evaporation (molecular energy
transfer), speeded up by the input of larger quantities of energy in
the form of HEAT to move or agitate the molecules. Nearly all
chemical processing is sped up by heat application. Ask any Chem.Eng.

The opposite of distilling, i.e. Freeze jacking, works because of
this molecular process but in the opposite way. In any water/ethanol
solution, there are three forms of molecular bonding present; water-
water, ethanol-ethanol and water-ethanol. If this were not so, we
could never have a pure substance such as water, or ethanol. If one
substance is immobilised, i.e. frozen (in this case the water, as it
freezes at a much higher temp than ethanol) then it is possible to
remove most (not all) of the ethanol from the water.
You will always have 'some' water and ethanol bonded together because
the water-ethanol bonds are stronger than the other pure substance
bonds of water-water or ethanol-ethanol.

So endeth the chemistry lesson. :)

Slainte!
regards Harry

**
Evaporation  The process of turning water to vapour (from a liquid
to a gas). At 100°C, the boiling point, all water will rapidly be
turned to vapour, because the energy supplied to heat the water is
enough to break apart all the molecular bonds. At temperatures
between 0°C and 100°C, only some of the molecules in the water have
enough energy to escape to the atmosphere and the rate at which water
is converted to vapour is much slower. The rate of evaporation
depends on temperature of the air (an increase of 10°C will double
the rate of evaporation), and the dryness or humidity of the air
(drier air has a greater "thirst" for water vapour than moist air).
Evaporation is an important part of the water cycle.
• Thank You Harry Gold Stars on the board. Best Regards Bill ... From: Harry Subject: [Distillers] Hydrogen Bonding (was) Re: PDA-2 To:
Message 3 of 23 , Jul 25, 2008
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 Thank You HarryGold Stars on the board.Best RegardsBill --- On Fri, 7/25/08, Harry wrote:From: Harry Subject: [Distillers] Hydrogen Bonding (was) Re: PDA-2To: Distillers@yahoogroups.comDate: Friday, July 25, 2008, 10:54 PM --- In Distillers@yahoogro ups.com, Trid wrote: > My initial perspective of this one is that it parallels the concept of holding the boiler's temperature at exactly the boiling temperature of ethanol and therefore extracting only ethanol from the mix. Which of course is a false premise, and one of the hardest myths to dispel in this game. Let me elaborate on why you can't selectively extract only ethanol & leave only water by regulating the heat input. Both water and ethanol will be extracted at ALL temperatures above the freezing point of water. Why? Because moving molecules collide and transfer energy, enough to break the molecular bonds (aka 'hydrogen bonding') of the water & ethanol. Breaking these bonds allows some molecules of both substances to escape to the atmosphere. The process is called EVAPORATION* *. Distillation as we know it is just evaporation (molecular energy transfer), speeded up by the input of larger quantities of energy in the form of HEAT to move or agitate the molecules. Nearly all chemical processing is sped up by heat application. Ask any Chem.Eng. The opposite of distilling, i.e. Freeze jacking, works because of this molecular process but in the opposite way. In any water/ethanol solution, there are three forms of molecular bonding present; water- water, ethanol-ethanol and water-ethanol. If this were not so, we could never have a pure substance such as water, or ethanol. If one substance is immobilised, i.e. frozen (in this case the water, as it freezes at a much higher temp than ethanol) then it is possible to remove most (not all) of the ethanol from the water. You will always have 'some' water and ethanol bonded together because the water-ethanol bonds are stronger than the other pure substance bonds of water-water or ethanol-ethanol. So endeth the chemistry lesson. :) Slainte! regards Harry ** Evaporation – The process of turning water to vapour (from a liquid to a gas). At 100°C, the boiling point, all water will rapidly be turned to vapour, because the energy supplied to heat the water is enough to break apart all the molecular bonds. At temperatures between 0°C and 100°C, only some of the molecules in the water have enough energy to escape to the atmosphere and the rate at which water is converted to vapour is much slower. The rate of evaporation depends on temperature of the air (an increase of 10°C will double the rate of evaporation) , and the dryness or humidity of the air (drier air has a greater "thirst" for water vapour than moist air). Evaporation is an important part of the water cycle.

• I don t think flash boiler works with mash. There will be lots of deposit build up on the flash surface in no time. Cheers, Riku ... the water lev is control
Message 4 of 23 , Jul 27, 2008
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I don't think flash boiler works with mash. There will be lots of
deposit build up on the flash surface in no time.

Cheers, Riku

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Bill Williams <vipond50@...> wrote:
>
> Hello
> Think of a flash boiler, but the OP temp of 95 C or so. This is why
the water lev is control thru a day tank. The special plates are
designed for this purpose.
> Hope this helps
> Regards
> Bill
>
> --- On Thu, 7/24/08, Arsene Lupin <ragnagna75012@...> wrote:
> From: Arsene Lupin <ragnagna75012@...>
> Subject: [Distillers] Re: PDA-2
> To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008, 11:21 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> by the way, anyone here would have a clue of the
circuitry inside the
>
> rectif/boiler section of amphora's fuel maker as shown in their video :
>
> http://www.rebelwol f.com/tas/ Amphora FED 7min Broadband.wmv
>
>
>
> Im also working on continuous still and i'm telling you this rectif
>
> section is very compact !
>
• Hello Actually I was describing the flow sheet not for mash... it was for a description of a low Cal vaporizer as it were. Harry interjected a valued
Message 5 of 23 , Jul 28, 2008
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Hello
Actually I was describing the flow sheet not for mash... it was for a
description of a low Cal vaporizer as it were. Harry interjected a
valued description relating to the water percentages in the evaporate.
If this flow sheet was to work it fluid to be work would have to be
filtered to a preset PPM solids. The vapor created (approx 40%
Eth)would then be worked by the column. Enough !!!!!!
Let face it the current methodologies needed to reviewed relating to
energy input can be groomed to be more effiecent... and the boy's in
New Zealand are progressing with this.
What was 4 KW and then 2.5 KW to receive the same volume of product
????? this was due to the boiler design.

Regards
Bill

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "abbababbaccc" <abbababbaccc@...>
wrote:
>
> I don't think flash boiler works with mash. There will be lots of
> deposit build up on the flash surface in no time.
>
> Cheers, Riku
>
> --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Bill Williams <vipond50@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello
> > Think of a flash boiler, but the OP temp of 95 C or so. This is why
> the water lev is control thru a day tank. The special plates are
> designed for this purpose.
> > Hope this helps
> > Regards
> > Bill
> >
> > --- On Thu, 7/24/08, Arsene Lupin <ragnagna75012@> wrote:
> > From: Arsene Lupin <ragnagna75012@>
> > Subject: [Distillers] Re: PDA-2
> > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008, 11:21 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > by the way, anyone here would have a clue of the
> circuitry inside the
> >
> > rectif/boiler section of amphora's fuel maker as shown in their
video :
> >
> > http://www.rebelwol f.com/tas/ Amphora FED 7min Broadband.wmv
> >
> >
> >
> > Im also working on continuous still and i'm telling you this rectif
> >
> > section is very compact !
> >
>
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