I have just this hour finished the blog entries for the subject Battle. You will find the drawings and comments on the following blog:
The references for the above article are:
--Beckworth. Christopher J. Empires of the Silk Road; A History of Central Asia From the Bronze Age to the Present, Princeton University Press, Princeton, 2009;
--Beckworth, Chisopher, J. The Tibetan Empire In Central Asia, Princeton University Press, Princeton, 1993;
--Donner, Fred, McGraw, The Early Islamic Conquests, Princeton University Press, Princeton, 1981;
--Graff, David, A. Medieval Chinese Warfare, 300 -- 900, Routledge Press, London, 2002;
--Graff, David, A. and Robin Highham, A Military History of China, Westview, Oxford, 2002;
--Grossett, Rene, The Empire of the Steppes; A History of Central Asia, Rutgers University Press, Piscataway, NJ, 1970;
--Kennedy, Hugh, Armies of the Caliphs; Military and Society in the Early Ismalic State, Routledge, New York, 2000;
--Kennedy, Hugh, The Great Arab Conquests, De Capo Press, Philadelphia, 2007;
--Nicole, David, The Armies of Islam 7th-11th Centuries, Osprey, London, 1982;
--Nicole , David, Armies of the Muslim Conquest, Osprey, London, 1993;
--Peers, C. I. Soldiers of the Dragon; Chinese Armies, 1500BC to AD 1840, Osprey, Oxford, 2006.
On May 15, 2012, at 10:32 PM, Teleri wrote:
I'll wait for the panels :D
My apologies, but I did not include the information about the final stages of the subject battle for three reasons:
First; I imagine that the author of the story would rather that you read the article in order to make that determination, since he is a much better writer than I and the story is both interesting and well written;
Secondly; I intend to draw up the four panels of the battle that were illustrated in the story and publish them to the Militarium, which would give you the answer to your question;
Thirdly; The story was so interesting that I read it three times to get every last bit of information, and I had hoped to be able to put that in the explanation that I intend to write going with the four panels.
However, if you still want to know the answer to your question prior to my completion of the intended map and panels, if you will send me a note off -line then I shall accomodate your wishes. However, please be aware that it is often said about many things, "that the anticipation is much more flavorful than the answer!"
On May 14, 2012, at 9:01 AM, Teleri wrote:
So who won???!!!
Carl Otis Schuster, "The Battle of Talas River, AD 751," Strategy and
Tactics Magazine, #273, Mar. -- Apr. 2012, Bakersfield, Calif.
This story is one which is very interesting, since it has aspects
which touch the famous "Silk Road." This is a story of deceit on an
empirical level and also religious tolerance. The battle resulted
from a situation in which two kings one in China and the other in
Tashkent. The Chinese army were joined with a Turkish Mercenary
Cavalry force and immediately moved on Tashkent and executed its
king. A son of the dead king escaped and appealed to the Samarkand
Governor who in turn moved an army north and the two armies met
somewhere along the Talas River in summer near the modern day country
The magazine article supplies a detailed set of maps showing the
approximate location of the battle as well as the probable initial
positions of the two armies. The article also features three pictures
of reenactors dressed in period dress as they reenact the battle.
There is a detailed Legend for ten diagrams of the battle and of the
tactics of the Caliphate and Chinese armies, as well as their
organization in the field. There is an article on the two army
commanders, and two detailed articles concerning both armies at Talas.
In my view the four diagrams relating to the five day battle of the
two armies at the Talas River are certainly worthy of my redrawing
them for inclusion in the ByzantiumNovumMilitarium blog in the coming
weeks. For those few who may have an interest in such, I shall make
note on this list when that occurs.. It would also e interesting to
develop a battle game from this detailed article which provides a
great deal of information about the battle.