Marc wrote: In Ansteorra (I assume elsewhere as well, but who knows), reading the award into court is what makes it law , so clearly the document is an addedMessage 1 of 15 , Jul 1, 2005View SourceMarc wrote:
In Ansteorra (I assume elsewhere as well, but who knows), reading the
award into court is what makes it "law", so clearly the document is an
Wm of Glencoe wrote:
A recent King of Atlantia, as a matter of personal policy, does not EVER
read (or have read) the text of an award in Court. It was he who awarded my
AoA. Does that mean that my AoA is not legitimate? According to your logic,
it implies that this is the case for my award and for all other awards given
during his reign.
To which I reply:
It varies by Kingdom. In the East, it is customary for a handmade document
to accompany each award. It is considered an oddity if there is no
document, and an apology generally issued. In other Kingdoms, if any
document is issued at all, it is a mass-produced "promissory note." If a
handmade document is desired, the award recipient must commission the work.
Therefore, I see no precedent across the Society for what makes awards
"stick." Is it the word of the King? I doubt anyone would be foolhardy
enough to tell the King of Atlantia that none of the awards he gave count.
Though I must confess I am troubled by what you told us, Wm. Awards are
business items before the Court, and should be public. Awards are laudable,
and should be lauded. Did he merely announce (or have announced), "Here's
Wm. He just got an AoA."? Or was it a bit more than that? I know if the
King of the East decided to do that with one of *my* documents, I'd have an
apopleptic fit. I work really, really hard on the wording of the documents
I produce -- I'm a calligrapher; if I haven't got words, I got nuthin' --
and if Joe Hotstick With A Shiny Hat decided to forego reading the award
text, I'd be furious for two reasons. One, he's pissing in *my* Kool-Aid.
Two, he's switching off the spotlight for a person who might not get another
award, not in another King's reign, not *ever.* Who the hell is he to get
in the way?
... No, William, my logic is for the Kingdoms of the Middle and Northshield - the two kingdom where I have lived, those are the only kingdom to whose custom IMessage 1 of 15 , Jul 1, 2005View SourceOn 6/30/05, Mark Bush (personal account) <markbush@...> wrote:
> A recent King of Atlantia, as a matter of personal policy, does not EVERNo, William, my logic is for the Kingdoms of the Middle and
> read (or have read) the text of an award in Court. It was he who awarded my
> AoA. Does that mean that my AoA is not legitimate? According to your logic,
> it implies that this is the case for my award and for all other awards given
> during his reign.
Northshield - the two kingdom where I have lived, those are the only
kingdom to whose custom I can speak.
Though I do agree with Robert that awards should be public and the
King is taking away from the 'moment' of the person getting the award
by not reading it into Court, as well as belittling the efforts of the
artisans who donate time, materials, and effort to do documents for
... In Atlantia, the award is considered valid at the time of the ceremony, with or without a scroll. True validity comes when the King and Queen list allMessage 1 of 15 , Jul 1, 2005View Source
> A recent King of Atlantia, as a matter ofIn Atlantia, the award is considered "valid" at the time of the ceremony,
> personal policy, does not EVER read (or
> have read) the text of an award in Court.
> It was he who awarded my AoA. Does that mean
> that my AoA is not legitimate? According to
> your logic, it implies that this is the case
> for my award and for all other awards given
> during his reign.
> Wm of Glencoe
with or without a scroll. True "validity" comes when the King and Queen list
all of the awards they've given during their reign in the Acorn (Kingdom
newsletter) ala "it isn't real until it's printed in the Acorn"... however,
I know of at least 3 instances where a past set of Royalty have not been
lucky in their account-keeping, or printing, and that scrap of paper is all
the proof that the awardee had - which was used to ensure that their award
was recorded in the OP. So in a way, you could consider your scroll or
promissory a "receipt" proving that the action had been taken.
Dame Hróðny Rognvaldsdottir, OP, OL
Great Dark Horde, Barony of Marinus
Misericordia Fortitudo Suprema Est
In may case, as is always the case with this Royal, I was called before the Crown in Court and there was a fair amount of pomp and circumstance including aMessage 1 of 15 , Jul 1, 2005View SourceIn may case, as is always the case with this Royal, I was called before the
Crown in Court and there was a fair amount of pomp and circumstance
including a recitation of my "accomplishments" (such as they are) and His
becoming aware of them through a variety of sources before the AoA was
announced. The herald began to read the text and was quickly and with some
consternation told by the King, "n My Court, award texts are not read." It
was a bit disconcerting to me, truth be told, and I felt bad for the herald
being spanked so in public, but it WAS His Court and it is His prerogative
to run it as He wishes.
As one who deeply appreciates the attention to detail and the marvel of a
well-crafted text or scroll design, I find it unfortunate that the beautiful
work of the artisan might not be fully recognized and appreciated in cases
such as these. As I will never have a reign of my own, not being a
stick-jock, but a wire wiggler myself, I will leave it to Him to satisfy His
wishes as long as he wears the Crown. After all, if my Royal Decree the
Crown can proclaim chocolate and strawberries, or even Jelly Bellys "period"
and the gift of favor for their reign, they can certainly decide that award
texts are not read in Court. Who am I to object?
Wm of Glencoe
MODERATOR NOTE: PLEASE SNIP YOUR POSTS TO INCLUDE ONLY THE RELEVANT BITS WHEN YOU POST thank you
... Exactly, which is why I prefaced my statements with In Ansteorra (I assume elsewhere as well, but who knows) [BTW, I not necessarily responsing to you,Message 1 of 15 , Jul 1, 2005View Source--- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Davis" <bob@r...> wrote:
> To which I reply:Exactly, which is why I prefaced my statements with "In Ansteorra (I
> It varies by Kingdom....
assume elsewhere as well, but who knows)" [BTW, I' not necessarily
responsing to you, but to the person who's response you replied to.
And thank you for including that in your recapitulation).
I don't mind if people want to take offense at things I write, and
disagree with me (I'm used to it, and goodness knows that the Society
is big enough for different opinions). It would be nice if they
actually -read- what was actually being said before making responses
that have no bearing on what WAS said though (- I know, I know - not a
reasonable request, I'm used to that too).
In Caid, the final award scroll (as opposed to temporary ones that are often given out at the giving of an award (we re a backlog kingdom :) ) is consideredMessage 1 of 15 , Jul 5, 2005View SourceIn Caid, the final award scroll (as opposed to temporary ones that are
often given out at the giving of an award (we're a backlog kingdom :) )
is considered alegal document as they are signed by the Crown and
sealed and signed by the Principal Herald if they include armoury.
--- In Authentic_SCA@yahoogroups.com, "Dawn Malmstrom" <dawn@w...>
> A question has recently arrised. Are award scrolls percieved as legal
> documents and/or gifts from the Crown or are they or a nice "extra"
> like a Laurel medallion/Knight's spurs?
> Just opening the question out to everyone.
> Donata Bonacorsi