ThankZ a lot to all the ones who have sent their compliments and appreciations
for our  train-show-layout.

Should anyone want to know more construction details and/or see more pictures
and some video, just please let us know and we will gladly provide them
off-line.

Greetings from Italy,
Mauro and Laura.

That seems to have worked...wonder how I missed that...  Thanks!
V/R
Larry P. Card
Virginia Beach, VA

>The email link in Cliff's original post has a typo in 'logisITCs'.
>
>Try this instead:
>
>cliff@...
>

"John & Sue Bartolotto" <jsbart@p...> wrote:

> What is the difference with #6 and #10 turnouts?  Do you
recommend Code 40 or Code 55, what is the difference and which goes
better with what track (Marklin, MTL)?  I 'm building a module and
want to get it close to "right" on the track.


Hi John.

There are more differences in turnouts than just the angle of
divergence at the frog.

Go to:  http://www.handlaidtrack.com/tie-templates.php

Follow the directions for printing the tie templates for both the #6
and the #10 Z scale turnout.

You can see that the #10 template is a longer template than the #6.

By cutting out the templates you can place two #6 right hand turnouts
facing each other at the proper spacing for two parallel tracks.  Line
them up so that the crossover tracks line up.  The straight portion of
the crossover track should be at least as long as your longest train
car.  That is the rule for S curves.  This rule is to prevent the
swing of cars with body mounted couplers from derailing each other as
they traverse the S curve.

Now do the same with the #10 templates.  You will see that the point
to point distance for the #10 crossover is quite a bit longer than the
#6.  As you can see, one of the major differences between building a
layout using #6 turnouts and #10 turnouts is that your #10 layout of
the same pattern will require more space.

As for your desire to build track "right" there are many other aspects
to track.

If you are modeling North American track, the MicroTrains track is the
only one with the proper tie size and the proper tie spacing.  Marklin
track has European size ties and tie spacing.  Peco track ties are a
little different again.  Peco is a UK manufacturer and follows UK
prototype practice.

European trains are shorter and lighter and put less stress on their
track.  North American track is built to withstand much more abuse
with a whole lot less maintenance.  A lot of track in NA has been laid
in areas that are almost totaly inaccessable.

All North American tracks do not have the same tie lengths.  Some ties
are 8.5 ft long and others are 9 ft long.  The MT ties scale out to 9
ft ties.  The tie lengths differ between mainline track and branch
line track.  Tie lengths differ between railroads also.  I don't know
about current practice but in the past the Western railroads used more
9ft ties than the East Coast railroads.

The layout of ties under turnouts differ between European practice and
NA practice.  Here in NA the tie lengths increase in steps.  There is
a group of ties of the same length and when the ties get too short the
next group will be 12 inches longer.  The number of ties of each
length differ with the angle of the frog.  All of the Z turnouts that
are available today have European style turnout tie patterns.  The
Fast Track templates show the NA style steps.  If you have a Marklin
turnout, you can see that, as the divergent track leaves the tangent
track, each tie is of a different length.  There are no groups of steps.

As for this question:  Do you recommend Code 40 or Code 55, what is
the difference.

Code 40 is dimensionally .73% the size of Code 55.  It has lesser bulk
and therefore is more frail.  It is harder to keep straight but easier
to cut and file to shape.  The more delicate code 40 rail requires
careful handling.

And this question:  and which goes better with what track (Marklin,
MTL)?

Go to this site: < http://www.nn3.ca/track.htm > scroll down a little
and you will see a schedule showing the specifications of the
different rails.  Code 40 is not listed but it would be about 27%
smaller in the first three dimensions.  My code 40 rail measures .043
inch with my digital caliper.  Perhaps tomorrow I will get a slightly
different reading.

You can also see that each rail should be identified as a different
code.   MicroTrains - code 58.5,  Marklin - code 60.5 and Peco - code
63.5.  But they are all commonly referred to as code 55 rail or as
someone here recently referred to as code 60 rail.  I cannot vouch for
the absolute accuracy of the dimensions listed but code 40 rail is
visibly smaller than the other three and without without a micrometer,
the other three would be hard to recognize.

For more information about laying track, you might look through these
links.  Some of the links are for general track laying information
applicable to any scale or gauge and some are for N scale narrow
gauge.  N scale narrow gauge uses Z scale track and Marklin Z
mechanisms for their running gear.

http://www.urbaneagle.com/data/RRstddims.html
http://www.railwayeng.com/
http://www.nn3.ca/track.htm
http://www.fielder-rowe.freeserve.co.uk/track.html
http://www.mtco.com/~ngntw/trackwork.htm

The real criteria for model railroad track is for the trains to stay
on the rails and go where you want them to.  Of secondary concern is
how it looks.  The third concern is if it follows NMRA practices.

Hope that all this doesn't confuse but like most everyting else there
are more than what meets the eye and you can see that I have spent way
too much time working on this problem.

Heeeers for clear track ahead.

Bill
El Toro, Ca

>If you all are wondering about price, they will be around $6 each, and
also
>sold in 5-packs for $27.00.  If you do the math, you'll see that your
total
>turnout cost will be in the neighboorhood of $12-15 each.


If the kits are 6 bux - why is the turnout cost 12?   Do you need to buy an
atlas switch too?  Or was that price including a motor?


T

Thanks Bill.

I certainly appreciate your insite and time to find all this info. It takes more
than one person to address all the different things we want in Z, if each of us
worked on something different, we'd have everything we wanted in no time.
Thanks,

Michael Hilliard

Bill Hoshiko <billhko@...> wrote:
Hope that all this doesn't confuse but like most everyting else there
are more than what meets the eye and you can see that I have spent way
too much time working on this problem.

Heeeers for clear track ahead.

Bill
El Toro, Ca



-Z- WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE!  Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi All,

Just a reminder of the Z voice chat tonight at 9pm EST, I'll be
there, hope to see as many of you as possible. Anyone want to
suggest a topic?

Michael Hilliard

Jeremy, This question must have slipped by you since a did not see an
answer. I am also interested in knowing about this... Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: "Torsja" <tjm@...>
To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 6:57 PM
Subject: [Z_Scale] Re: System Joerger Speed Regulators


>
> --- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "Jeremy Brandon" >
>
> Question:
> Will the "System Joerger" Speed regulator work with the RELCO Track
> Cleaning generator?
>
>
> Torsja - Norway
> http://194.143.113.189/tjm/
>
>
>
>
>
> -Z- WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE!  Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

List,

Thank you so far for the encouraging posts.  I apologize about the typo.
See my corrected address below.

To answer some of your questions...  I posted a photo in on the z group
website last night of a completed turnout as well as a pre-production tie
strip.  It in the folder entitled "quick switch".  I will do a website
update by the weekend.

If sales go well with the #5 turnout (100 units or more sold), I will of
course release the #7.  No problem there.

I am not so sure that doing larger turnout #'s is a good idea for me in the
near future unless Altas happens to come out with a larger turnout.  The
significant benefit to _most_  Z scalers is being able to utilize the ready
to lay components from Atlas and crank these things out at the workbench for
less than $15 each.

I had not considered doing a tie strip with the peco/marklin tie profile
because the code 55 rail components are not a close fit with the peco code
60 rail.  Of course with some mods, one could make it work.  Again, if it
seems like there is significant demand, I will do it.  The nn3ers might be
able to help out here because many of them use the peco track and this would
be a bit of a crossover item.

Again, please let me know if you have any other questions.

Cliff
cliff@...

Bill,

Thanks for the great info.  Between you and Robert Ray I set!

John

Ted,

You would have to aquire the Atlas turnouts yourself.  Some places sell them
for as little as $6.50ish and I've also seen them for as much as $10.50.
That's why I gave a "ballpark" estimate per turnout.

Cliff
SSL


----- Original Message -----
From: <ted_lamar@...>
To: <z_scale@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Z_Scale] New turnout system


>
>
> >If you all are wondering about price, they will be around $6 each, and
> also
> >sold in 5-packs for $27.00.  If you do the math, you'll see that your
> total
> >turnout cost will be in the neighboorhood of $12-15 each.
>
>
> If the kits are 6 bux - why is the turnout cost 12?   Do you need to buy
an
> atlas switch too?  Or was that price including a motor?
>
>
> T
>
>
>
>
>
> -Z- WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE!  Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hi everyone,
Could someone please help me to identify an early locomotive
(possibly American)? I have uploaded a picture at our Photos section
in my folder "Uwe Galepp". The picture is called "Lok01" and shows
that locomotive embroidered on fabric. It says "1857" at the
picture, I gather it's the year of production.
I would like to know more about it, so if someone can help, please
shoot ;o)
Regards,
Uwe

Hi Uwe,

A Google search for "4-4-0 american" brought up lots of answers.
Here is my favourite:

http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/001/800elqkm.as
p

Cheers,
Jeffrey

--- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, "ppelag" <uwe@g...> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> Could someone please help me to identify an early locomotive
> (possibly American)?
> Uwe

Hi Jeffrey,
what a quick response. I could have tried to look it up in Google
myself, but I'm not familiar with the American classification system
(like 4-4-0), so I didn't really know what to look for.
Anyhow, thanks to your help I now know (almost)everything about it.
This group is indeed a great team to be part of.
Regards,

Uwe Galepp
www.galepp.com

> Hi Uwe,
>
> A Google search for "4-4-0 american" brought up lots of answers.
> Here is my favourite:
>
>
http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/001/800elqkm.a
s
> p
>
> Cheers,
> Jeffrey

I am thinning out my z scale MTL car collection.  A
list of cars for sale is posted at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/z_scale_market/post




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

>I am thinning out my z scale MTL car collection.  A
>list of cars for sale is posted at:

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/z_scale_market/post

A couple things:

I just joined the z market group and will now head over to remove myself.

IMO you should crack down a bit more on the members - at least try to
verify them when they sign on.  It is obvious that many spammers are coming
through there.



T

Good point, Ted.  Let me add the suggestion that the messages on
that forum be made public.  That way prospective buyers won't be
forced to join.  Best to make things as easy as possible.

Other than that, For Sale postings are A-OK right here which has a
much broader reach among Zeds, IMHO.

Just a thought,
Jeffrey

--- In z_scale@yahoogroups.com, ted_lamar@p... wrote:
>

>
> IMO you should crack down a bit more on the members - at least try
to
> verify them when they sign on.  It is obvious that many spammers
are coming
> through there.
> T

jmac_han wrote:
Let me add the suggestion that the messages on
> that forum be made public.  That way prospective buyers won't be
> forced to join.  Best to make things as easy as possible.

I went over there minutes after the 4-sale was posted, but quiclky
fled, when I discovered I had to join, because I don't like to jump
through flaming hoops just to see what someone is selling.

Make it public if it's for sale to the public. :)

-Robert

Just to announce to the world that I completed my first railmodel kit,  Robert's
Center Beam Car kit:

http://www.theprez.it/milw/milw_cb1.jpg

http://www.theprez.it/milw/milw_cb3.jpg

Beside some problems with decals, as usual, it was quite straight forward
also for a mess maker like me :-)

I have another Milwaukee and a BN cars ready in the shop to enhance my skill.

Ciao!

Alex

PS. Robert, to have a back-up set of decals in the kit would be really
appreciated...


----------------------------------
"..e per il resto vivo come un morto, vivo come se fossi postumo: io lavoro per
la gloria del mio fantasma"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alex,

Great job! The center beam looks great. I am sure you are thrilled to have a
new piece of Milwaukee Road equipment for you layout.

Rob Kluz



Ztrack Magazine Ltd.
6142 Northcliff Blvd.
Dublin, OH 43016
phone/fax: (614) 764-1703
www.ztrack.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alex

Most excellent job!  Any kit or scratch building is Great Building!
Keep up the great work!  Don't worry about the decals, they look
good!

Tim

>  I am sure you are thrilled to have a
> new piece of Milwaukee Road equipment for you layout.

Yes ! Never enough!

Just saw that MTL October announcement does not include the MILW F7 :-(
I hope it will not be Z style long waiting...

Alex

Just found the following at a local hobby shop:

Postage Stamps Planes
Model Power
Diecast Metal Historically accurate colletibles
1/100 scale

But many of them are not 1/100....
You have to look inside on the pedestal on one side
(the have no wheel)

Exemples:
# 5368 Avro Vulcan 1/234 scale (Large British Jet Bomber)
# 5404 SR-71 The Black Bird 1/200 scale
# 5404 B-1B Bomber 1/221 scale

Raymond Morrissette

I could post to the group but I thought that list
protocal called for listing with the market forum.

If I should post to the group, the protocal gurus
should so state.

--- Robert Ray <pray59@...> wrote:

>   jmac_han wrote:
> Let me add the suggestion that the messages on
> > that forum be made public.  That way prospective
> buyers won't be
> > forced to join.  Best to make things as easy as
> possible.
>
> I went over there minutes after the 4-sale was
> posted, but quiclky
> fled, when I discovered I had to join, because I
> don't like to jump
> through flaming hoops just to see what someone is
> selling.
>
> Make it public if it's for sale to the public. :)
>
> -Robert
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Any helicopters?

--- Raymond Morrissette <raymorrissette@...>
wrote:

> Just found the following at a local hobby shop:
>
> Postage Stamps Planes
> Model Power
> Diecast Metal Historically accurate colletibles
> 1/100 scale
>
> But many of them are not 1/100....
> You have to look inside on the pedestal on one side
> (the have no wheel)
>
> Exemples:
> # 5368 Avro Vulcan 1/234 scale (Large British Jet
> Bomber)
> # 5404 SR-71 The Black Bird 1/200 scale
> # 5404 B-1B Bomber 1/221 scale
>
> Raymond Morrissette
>
>




_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

For sale ads, anouncements, have always been ok here and it says so right on the
home page, all that is asked is not to make auction postings here : )

Michael Hilliard

Tom Fisher <tfisher10@...> wrote:
I could post to the group but I thought that list
protocal called for listing with the market forum.

If I should post to the group, the protocal gurus
should so state.



-Z- WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE!  Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Tom Fisher <tfisher10@...> you wrote:

> Any helicopters?

Yes, but it looks like these models are scaled so they are all roughly the same
size.

http://www.diecasthobbies.com/114/2019.htm?268
http://www.flyingmule.com/range/model/diecast/model_power/postage_stamp_planes/

A Goodyear Blimp is 1:350 but a Bell G-47 (M*A*S*H) Helicopter is 1:100
http://www.flyingmule.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MP-560\
2

--
Regards, Bob

Your pics do not show any difficulty with decals, looks great. However, I'm very
curious about the UP passenger cars in the back ground : ) I have a feeling
you'll have no problems getting extra M.R. decals if really needed from Robert,
but I can't speak for him. Keep up the great Z work.

Michael Hilliard
P.S. I always try to provide 3 decals for each single car in case of mess ups,
or defects. In other words, If I say for 2 cars, you can usually do 3 if you
don't make any mistakes.

The Prez <theprez@...> wrote:

Just to announce to the world that I completed my first railmodel kit,  Robert's
Center Beam Car kit:

http://www.theprez.it/milw/milw_cb1.jpg

http://www.theprez.it/milw/milw_cb3.jpg

Beside some problems with decals, as usual, it was quite straight forward
also for a mess maker like me :-)

I have another Milwaukee and a BN cars ready in the shop to enhance my skill.

Ciao!

Alex

PS. Robert, to have a back-up set of decals in the kit would be really
appreciated...


----------------------------------
"..e per il resto vivo come un morto, vivo come se fossi postumo: io lavoro per
la gloria del mio fantasma"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



-Z- WARNING! HANDLE WITH CARE!  Highly addictive in Small DoseZ!



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just posted some photos of my cigar box layout in the photos section,
under Paul's Cigar Box.
It's OK for a first effort. A great learning experience.
Many thanks to all who provided input for wiring the Jorger speed
controller.
Especially to Jeremy Brandon fro the schematic.

Happy Z'ing

Paul

Car A
Midwezt Haulerz
Belleville, IL



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Please, no more about 1-221 & 1-234 bombers, once Jim reads this
I'll have to put my layout under camafloge <smile>

Michael

> Exemples:
> # 5368 Avro Vulcan 1/234 scale (Large British Jet Bomber)
> # 5404 SR-71 The Black Bird 1/200 scale
> # 5404 B-1B Bomber 1/221 scale
>
> Raymond Morrissette