And thats fine but once you have oil pressure built up you can then crank it
until the starter just spins up to speed..which will be less time than if you
are waiting for the oil pressure build...Having the oil pressure to come up
before you start allows your crank journals to last longer.

The difference is not great however

Frank



________________________________
From: yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of WB6PSY/N6AXK
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 2:53 PM
To: yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Yanmar tractor owners group] Re: Yanmar 3TN Won't Start---Looking
for Tips and Suggestions



Huh? I have turned the key to TS and when the light goes out pull the
compression release for a few seconds then push it in and it starts up.
I'll have to try it the other way as you wrote below...

Rene - NorCal

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
Looking for Tips and Suggestions

> On mine you turn the ignition switch to the left till the red light goes
> out (i.e it shuts off power to the glow plugs automatically) ..then start.
>
> In reality you can blow the nice hot air right out the stack..So what I do
> is to pin the engine till i get oil pressure..THEN power the glow plugs
> (mine shut off after 10 to 15 seconds) Then it will start right up.
>
> You do relise you have to turn the key the wrong way to power the
> glowplugs right??
>
> Frank
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I may try the oil in the cylinder tommorrow.  I had read to be careful with any
liquid in the cylinder as it does not compress and the hydraulic pressure can
cause issues/damage.

As for the injector lines, I have had them removed and sprayed wd40 through each
of the three to confirm there was no blockage.

No actually it won't. the glow plugs are wired in parallel, thus they will each
get 12V, but the current will be three times as high..Thats why the wire feeding
the glowplugs ais fairly chunky...like an 8 guage wire roughly.

I would heat for 10 seconds, maybe 15..Make sure they are all working however.

Frank

________________________________
From: yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jimybud
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 2:34 PM
To: yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Yanmar tractor owners group] Re: Yanmar 3TN Won't Start---Looking for
Tips and Suggestions



At this point The tractor does not have a dash. It does not have a key start
(ignition switch) or any indicator lights. Merely a wiring harness.

I am applying twelve volts via a test lead hooked to the battery and the glow
plug directly.

I am thinking that I should apply twelve volts for about one minute.

The reason I ask is that when I had the glow plug removed from the tractor and
tested it, it got red hot in about three seconds. I am assuming that the since I
am applying twelve volts to all three glow plugs that it will take a bit longer.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes if you crank excessively the nice hot air in the combustion chambers gets
sent out the exhaust...So after a few revolutions you should stop and preheat
again.

Frank

________________________________
From: yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jimybud
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 1:28 PM
To: yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Yanmar tractor owners group] Re: Yanmar 3TN Won't Start---Looking for
Tips and Suggestions



How long should I preheat the glow plugs prior to turning over the engine? a
minute, thirty seconds, etc.

when should I stop turning over the engine heat the glow plugs again?

If I continue to apply 12 volts to the glow plugs while turning over the engine
will the fuel mixture cool the glow plugs to an extent that I will be required
to stop turning it over and preheat them again?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Huh?  I have turned the key to TS and when the light goes out pull the
compression release for a few seconds then push it in and it starts up.
I'll have to try it the other way as you wrote below...

Rene - NorCal

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
Looking for Tips and Suggestions


> On mine you turn the ignition switch to the left till the red light goes
> out (i.e it shuts off power to the glow plugs automatically) ..then start.
>
> In reality you can blow the nice hot air right out the stack..So what I do
> is to pin the engine till i get oil pressure..THEN power the glow plugs
> (mine shut off after 10 to 15 seconds) Then it will start right up.
>
> You do relise you have to turn the key the wrong way to power the
> glowplugs right??
>
> Frank
>

At this point The tractor does not have a dash. It does not have a key start
(ignition switch) or any indicator lights.  Merely a wiring harness.

I am applying twelve volts via a test lead hooked to the battery and the glow
plug directly.

I am thinking that I should apply twelve volts for about one minute.

The reason I ask is that when I had the glow plug removed from the tractor and
tested it, it got red hot in about three seconds.  I am assuming that the since
I am applying twelve volts to all three glow plugs that it will take a bit
longer.

One thing that I would try is to put a couple of tablespoons of good
engine oil (20w-50 would be my choice) in each cylinder. This might seal
the rings and improve compression enough to make it start.

And I would also bleed the fuel system, including each injector line.

Wally



jimybud wrote:
>
> With a healthly shot of E it still did not start. It did smoke a bit
> more from the exhaust.
>
> In review, I know there is some compression in all three cylinders. I
> know that at least two of the three injectors are spraying a cone type
> fuel from them when the engine turns over (with the fuel solenoid open
> and the throttle part way open). I also took off the rocker arm cover
> to be sure the valves appear to be opening and closing.
>
>

On mine you turn the ignition switch to the left till the red light goes out
(i.e it shuts off power to the glow plugs automatically) ..then start.

In reality you can blow the nice hot air right out the stack..So what I do is to
pin the engine till i get oil pressure..THEN power the glow plugs (mine shut off
after 10 to 15 seconds) Then it will start right up.

You do relise you have to turn the key the wrong way to power the glowplugs
right??

Frank

________________________________
From: yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jimybud
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 1:28 PM
To: yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Yanmar tractor owners group] Re: Yanmar 3TN Won't Start---Looking for
Tips and Suggestions



How long should I preheat the glow plugs prior to turning over the engine? a
minute, thirty seconds, etc.

when should I stop turning over the engine heat the glow plugs again?

If I continue to apply 12 volts to the glow plugs while turning over the engine
will the fuel mixture cool the glow plugs to an extent that I will be required
to stop turning it over and preheat them again?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Any chance the thread size is the same as those of a spark plug (18 mm)?

Can someone provide the thread shize for a 3TN or other three cylinder yanmar?

Even though my diesel tester did not have the adapter, I am now wondering if my
snap on automotive tester thread sizes are the same.

I am trying to get an answer prior to removing the fuel gallary and injectors as
it is about a hour plus job (I go slow as I do not want to damage any of the
parts--they are expensive and will prolong the project).

How long should I preheat the glow plugs prior to turning over the engine?  a
minute, thirty seconds, etc.

when should I stop turning over the engine heat the glow plugs again?

If I continue to apply 12 volts to the glow plugs while turning over the engine
will the fuel mixture cool the glow plugs to an extent that I will be required
to stop turning it over and preheat them again?

I checked a second one and it worked wonderfully as well.  I may check the third
one later.

Definately time for a compression check. I have seen stuck rings that
don't seal. You may be able to cobble up an adapter that will work with
your tester. You do know to only spray starting fluid while you are
cranking?
kk

jimybud wrote:
>
> With a healthly shot of E it still did not start. It did smoke a bit
> more from the exhaust.
>
> In review, I know there is some compression in all three cylinders. I
> know that at least two of the three injectors are spraying a cone type
> fuel from them when the engine turns over (with the fuel solenoid open
> and the throttle part way open). I also took off the rocker arm cover
> to be sure the valves appear to be opening and closing.
>
>

A finish mower adds quite a bit of value to it since a new mower is over $1000.
That makes it a lot better deal.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: deanwilliam78
   To: yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 9:06 PM
   Subject: Re: [Yanmar tractor owners group] hello every one and thanks for
letting me join




   --- In yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com, alexib6ub9@... wrote:
   >
   > Hence why it is probably painted american colors lol
   Ok now I am confused the tractor we were looking at is red hood and fenders
with a green color frame and engine.  Also on the price of the unit it includes
a set of ag tires and a finish mower So I am guessing it is a fair price but not
a  great deal?

   Thank you



   ------------------------------------

   Yahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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07:52:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes check the other two...quite possible you got the only one working..even 1
dead one out of three would make it hard to start.

Frank


________________________________


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I did not check all three, but when I had the middle one out I hooked up 12
volts and it got red hot in about three seconds.

I will do that.  I am going to remove the exhaust manifold.

Does this motor have glowplugs or a preheater of some kind?..Usually when
diesels won't start it means the glowplugs are not working..its easy to check

Frank



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This might be obvious but did you check to see if the exhaust was plugged; like
by a bird nest or something... Keith



-----Original Message-----
From: jimybud <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
To: yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 10:47 am
Subject: [Yanmar tractor owners group] Re: Yanmar 3TN Won't Start---Looking for
Tips and Suggestions




With a healthly shot of E it still did not start. It did smoke a bit more from
the exhaust.

In review, I know there is some compression in all three cylinders. I know that
at least two of the three injectors are spraying a cone type fuel from them when
the engine turns over (with the fuel solenoid open and the throttle part way
open). I also took off the rocker arm cover to be sure the valves appear to be
opening and closing.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My oil filler cap is on top of the engine; it is part of the rocker arm cover. 
I am assuming the internal throttle linkage would be lower on the engine.

If I was able to view fuel squirting from two of the injectors, does not that
eliminate or minimize the possibility that the throttle is disfunctional?

With a healthly shot of E it still did not start.  It did smoke a bit more from
the exhaust.

In review, I know there is some compression in all three cylinders.  I know that
at least two of the three injectors are spraying a cone type fuel from them when
the engine turns over (with the fuel solenoid open and the throttle part way
open).  I also took off the rocker arm cover to be sure the valves appear to be
opening and closing.

Good enough deal that if I needed one I'd jump on it. You might find a
better deal SOMEWHERE, but this one is available.
kk

deanwilliam78 wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:yanmartractorownersgroup%40yahoogroups.com>, alexib6ub9@... wrote:
> >
> > Hence why it is probably painted american colors lol
> Ok now I am confused the tractor we were looking at is red hood and
> fenders with a green color frame and engine. Also on the price of the
> unit it includes a set of ag tires and a finish mower So I am guessing
> it is a fair price but not a great deal?
>
> Thank you
>
>

One of the things that took me a long time to figure out that tractor prices
don't change much. I've always been a "buy it used and fix it up" sort of
guy, and was pretty familiar with the huge range of prices in used things
like houses, cars, boats, and tools. Using boats for an example, depending
on how much someone wanted to sell it, I might find the exact same old
ski/fishing boat selling at $1500 and another at $4000....maybe with the
more expensive one having been washed and waxed....and also knowing that I
might well find or force an even larger difference by bargaining or waiting
a while.

So naturally I expected the same thing to be true of tractors. Why not?
Well, after 30 or 40 years of tractors, I have to conclude tractors just
aren't priced in the same way. For any year and model the price is what it
is, and you can get old and grey looking for more than a 10% difference.
Spare parts, books and various implements can go along with the deal or
not...and still not change the price by a lot....just as long as one of the
implements isn't a front end loader. It's not unusual for a new domestic
tractor to drop to about 2/3 of it's new price over a couple of years, then
edge slightly higher to a price it will maintain for many decades. And the
same tractor won't be priced much differently in Ohio or Oregon. It's true
that the grey market tractors start lower, but they seem just as stable. I
couldn't figure out why...Why should tractors be different from cars and
boats?

Even odder, I found that as long as the tractor would run and work, the
condition didn't even change the price by much and that was surely a
puzzler. Because based on the houses, boats, and cars, if anything would
change the price it would be condition. Again, why is it that tractors are
priced differently?

Finally I concluded that it had to be a reflection of the unusual durability
of farm tractors. It's basically true that if an old tractor runs at all and
can work for an hour without problems, then it will run not much differently
in the coming years - and that can be how ever many years that you like. Old
tractors rarely need parts of any kind. So IMHO, that's the reason for the
price stability, the market is simply reflecting the unusual durability of
used tractors.

What I'm saying is that I sure wasted a lot of time looking for a $$ deal on
a used tractor, and it just wasn't there. Oh, it's true that in 40 years
I've seen some...but the real deals have been a rarity. Most go to friends
and neighbors.  Of course if you just enjoy looking at and comparing old
tractors then that's different & I can sure understand it. After all, so do
I and expect to continue. But just expect that the price won't change by
much. Just be sure to work the tractor for a couple of hours and however it
responds..well, that's how she will be for a long time. Oh, and be sure to
start it in cold weather just to be sure it will. It's important for a
tractor to always start when nothing else on the place will.
If it starts, it should work...and however it works for an hour will be how
it will work for years.
     That's all there is to it. So simple....
                     Enjoy,  roger_scotty

----- Original Message -----
From: "deanwilliam78" <deanwilliam78@...>
To: <yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Yanmar tractor owners group] hello every one and thanks for
letting me join


>
>
> --- In yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com, alexib6ub9@... wrote:
>>
>> Hence why it is probably painted american colors lol
> Ok now I am confused the tractor we were looking at is red hood and
> fenders with a green color frame and engine.  Also on the price of the
> unit it includes a set of ag tires and a finish mower So I am guessing it
> is a fair price but not a  great deal?
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

You still need to bleed those fuel lines and check compression. Sounds like a
lot of blow-by, possibly blown head gasket. I would not want gasoline or ether
anywhere near my diesel engine.

--- In yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com, alexib6ub9@... wrote:
>
> Hence why it is probably painted american colors lol
Ok now I am confused the tractor we were looking at is red hood and fenders with
a green color frame and engine.  Also on the price of the unit it includes a set
of ag tires and a finish mower So I am guessing it is a fair price but not a 
great deal?

Thank you

have you considered trying 1k kerosene instead of diesel. ether is just so bad
for a diesel.


John


----- Original Message -----
From: jimybud
To: yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 12/14/2009 8:14:51 PM
Subject: [Yanmar tractor owners group] Re: Yanmar 3TN Won't Start---Looking for
Tips and Suggestions



I plan on using the gas or other starting aid tommorrow.

Would not my test where I hooked up the injectors to the fuel lines and observed
the fuel spray from the injectors tips eliminate or reduce the possiblility of a
throttle issue?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

it is hydrostatic.

--- In yanmartractorownersgroup@yahoogroups.com, Karl Klein <kklein@...> wrote:
>
> Often when I could not start by cranking, pulling would always work. Try it.
>
> jimybud wrote:
> >
> > Reinstalled the fuel gallary and the injectors. Tried to start it
> > again. A small amount of white smoke from the exhaust port. A lot of
> > blue/black smoke from the crankcase port on the valve cover.
> >
> > The engine never really "ignites". Just sort of consistenly turns over
> > without ever "catching" or attempting to start.
> >
> >
>

Thanks for not suggesting the ether;  unfortunatly, if someone recommends it,
this thread will become sidetracked.

I will post some more details tommorrow.  For me, this is a "throw away" tractor
and it would not matter much to me if I damage the engine.

Often when I could not start by cranking, pulling would always work. Try it.

jimybud wrote:
>
> Reinstalled the fuel gallary and the injectors. Tried to start it
> again. A small amount of white smoke from the exhaust port. A lot of
> blue/black smoke from the crankcase port on the valve cover.
>
> The engine never really "ignites". Just sort of consistenly turns over
> without ever "catching" or attempting to start.
>
>

I'm worried by the smoke from the crankcase. That doesn't sound good.
I'm intrigued by the gas rag also. I've never tried that. I've been down
the ether road so many times I feel I can use it wisely, but was
hesitant to suggest it for fear of getting slammed.

jimybud wrote:
>
> Reinstalled the fuel gallary and the injectors. Tried to start it
> again. A small amount of white smoke from the exhaust port. A lot of
> blue/black smoke from the crankcase port on the valve cover.
>
> The engine never really "ignites". Just sort of consistenly turns over
> without ever "catching" or attempting to start.
>
>

It does not spin easily. I could not find any indication of a compression
release function.  It smokes a little bit, and there is suction at the intake
port.

However, I am not ruling it out yet.