I spiral dive the E374 version all the time.  As long as you have the
elevator back it won't go fast enough to hurt itself.  What is scary is when
the vario is still pegged.  A big poly plane with a thin rudder and forward
CG should not spin, at least that is the idea.  I have yet to fly the new
ones over a 500m inversion but considering the throws I doubt very much they
would spin.  Part of the 20 years experience is having the discipline to
both keep the plane in a very small cone above the truck and cap yourself at
the visibility limit for the day and move on.  This can vary from 1000m to
1700m depending on the weather.  More than half the contests in recent
memory have been capped at around 500m.  This takes out the stress of
visibility but slows down the forward progress.  Not better or worse, just a
different contest.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greg, have you ever tried to spin your RE plane?  will it spin or go
into a spiral dive?

steve




________________________________

From: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Greg Norsworthy
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 5:59 PM
To: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [xcsoaring] stability




That is part of the reason I went back to poly ships. Too many times it
was
blown up before we knew what happened.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was thinking of something like this in a non flamable version. We had several
discussions about a parachute failsafe rig that could be disconnected remotely
after regaining visual contact.

   http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1153206&highlight=smoke



   Scott








To: michael.deleo@...; xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com
From: SRH2@...
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 14:59:07 -0800
Subject: RE: [xcsoaring] Re: I can't see it!!





Yes, I know that feeling of dread. I lost Dudley's SBXC one year at
Montague when my eyes teared up in the wind and it instantly
dissappeared at +3000 ft. We found it in a cow pasture about a half
mile down the road completely destroyed with parts of the fuse sunk into
the dirt about 10inches. That was a lot of energy on impact.
Thankfully no cows were injured or killed. At this years Montague we
lost sight of our SBXC at 3100 ft and reacquired visual at about 1500 ft
going straight down. It took another 800 ft to pull out without
shedding the wings. I think that was a case of the lateral distance
being a big factor (hypotenuse of the triangle). If the plane is
straight overhead it usually isnt a problem but that sets up another
problem, if you are at say 3500-4000 ft AGL straight overhead and
everything is fine and then cut a corner it can get real small real fast
with not only distance being a factor but angle of view between the
pilot and the plane (smaller side profile). Another time we lost
sight of the plane thru a long line of trees and came out the other end
with no plane in sight..(that's a real bad feeling). About 10 or 20
seconds later we lucked out and spied it going in the exact opposite
direction, somehow it managed to turn a 180 even though the pilot was
trying to fly straight while blinded by the treeline. That's an
instance where a gyro on rudder might have really helped. And maybe it
would reduce the problem of having to race thru tree lines as fast as
possible with the chase vehicle in order to regain sight of the model.

I think some experimenting with fail safe and gyro, etc could result in
a setup with the least potential to impact at high speed in cases like
this. I have seen pilots do the "loop to loop" method after losing
sight but that one always scares me. Too easy to veer off into a high
speed death spiral

steve

-----Original Message-----
From: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Michael Deleo
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:25 PM
To: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [xcsoaring] Re: I can't see it!!

Steve,

I couldn't agree more. The first thought that went through my head was,
"Please don't let this thing shed its wings and go through someone's
roof!".

This may sound strange, but has anyone considered a drogue chute
deployable from the bottom of the rudder ala older generation FS
sailplanes? Just enough drag to make you come down in out-of-sight cases
and/or land in a small field? It's a one-shot but that's really all you
need.

Rudder, elevator and drogue chute (RED)... The simple cross-country
ship!

Half joking,

Mike

Henke, Steve wrote:
>
> I would argue this from a safety point of view as well as lost
> equipment. An 11 lb model that is out of control can become an
> unguided missile that could have fatal results. Sure, we fly in
> generally low population areas but if a disaster like this ever
> happened it could be the end of XC as we know it. Anyone who has flown

> XC long enough has gone thru the scary experience of losing sight of
> the model and its not fun. If a gyro could be made to work to allow
> safe passage thru tree tunnels or deeply cut corners (legal cuts) or
> to give the pilot/spotter a better chance to reacquire visual then I'm

> all for it. I dont think it would or even could aid in thermalling and

> any device that is a true thermalling type autopilot I believe most
> pilots would be against (cheating).
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Michael
> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:17 PM
> To: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [xcsoaring] Re: I can't see it!!
>
> As a one-time member of the Thermaling Into Outer Space Club, I can
> share some experience.
>
> I have a Futaba gyro in one of my ships tied to the rudder. The gyro
> can be turned on or of with a switch on the transmitter. I was more
> interested in a "heading lock" kind of thing than a "fly to safety"
> solution but haven't worked it enough to know if it's worth the
effort.
>
> With regard to losing sight of the plane, I lost a plane at Cal Valley

> the year before last. It's not just the height that will kill you,
> horizontal distance counts as well (think "hypotenuse from high-school

> geometry). It was windy and I tightened up in a thermal that was
> drifting away from the chase vehicle. Within three or four turns, it
> went from visible to speck to gone.
>
> The lift can be so strong at some of the places we fly in the West
> that not even full flaps (and crow) will always save the day. The lift

> typically gets stronger with height, so that can add insult to injury
> if you're not careful. I've been working on a transmitter mode/flight
> phase to create a kind of benign spiral for one of my planes
> (hands-off, plane in shallow turning dive that doesn't over-speed).
>
> The best solution might be to have the stabilizer, if you have an
> all-flying one, go up to 70 or 80 degrees and "de-thermalize" like the

> free-flight guys do. The mechanics of pulling that off might be a
> challenge, though.
>
> The gyro almost feels like cheating because it is a form of autopilot.
> Anyone else feel the same?
>
> Mike
>
> --- In xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com> , Dudley Dufort <dudley@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Oh the terror that those words conjure up.
> >
> > While thumbing through my bathroom reading material, I picked up the

> > latest edition of AMA. In it I saw a full page ad for the new JR
> > G370 3D gyro. Hmm, I wonder if that would work in a temporarily
> > misplaced
> MXC?
> >
> > I called Horizon Hobby and here's what I found. First, they ain't
> cheap
> > at $160 and they control only one channel. But, in the opinion of
> > Horizon, it could save the day.
> >
> > So, to my way of thinking, if I plugged a gyro into the elevator, in

> > a
>
> > fail safe mode that would control pitch. I could also program a bit
> > of
>
> > rudder and, ideally, that would cause my misplaced plane to fly in a

> > flat circle until we spotted it again. Has anyone tried this?
> >
> > Any comments?
> >
> >
> > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature database 4670 (20091208) __________
> >
> > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
> >
> > part000.txt - decompression could not complete (possible reasons:
> insufficient free memory or disk space, or a problem with temp
> folders)
> >
> > http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> <http://www.eset.com
> <http://www.eset.com>>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
Michael Deleo
SRI International, San Luis Obispo Office 805-542-9330 x111
michael.deleo@...

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





_________________________________________________________________
Get gifts for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now.
http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=xbox+games&scope=cashback&form=MSHYCB&publ\
=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_Shopping_Giftsforthem_cashback_1x1

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

How about talking to the SkyMelody guys about enunciating the compass
heading that the glider is on? There are several, accurate enough ways
to do that. That would have saved my glider.

deanhg97530 wrote:
>
> I have tried the BTA autopilot with the thought of using it to save a
> glider if need be. Didn't work at all, when turned on a shallow dive
> was the result.
> Now if I loose sight and am flying a SBXC I put it in crow and right
> stick pulled back into a corner. The result for me is a safe sprial
> and so far always seeing a flash thus saving the glider. I have tried
> this many times flying for fun. The key of course is to react quickly
> before speed builds up.
> So far I havn't done my homework on the MXC as far as testing in a non
> contest condition. At least twice in contests I have lost it in the
> sun.Both times I pulled the stick back putting the glider into a loop
> and then a recovery after gaining sight. I will be trying the crow
> technique before the next contest.
> These are just some of the things we need to practice and become
> comfortable doing.
> Regards Dean
>
>

--
Michael Deleo
SRI International, San Luis Obispo Office
805-542-9330 x111
michael.deleo@...

That is part of the reason I went back to poly ships.  Too many times it was
blown up before we knew what happened.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Not trying to be a sh&*()*(t stirrer, but how is flying r/c sailplanes
at or slightly beyond our vision any different than the FS guys busting
Class A airspace during a contest?

Granted, we're not likely to have an airliner hit us but I think it's
dangerous and the issue is a valid one: Why isn't there an altitude cap
for r/c xc racing?

Aren't most people flying with altitude encoding recorders and altitude
announcing varios?

Again, what are we trying to measure in these contests? Vision or
soaring ability? Am I the only one that hates flying at the limits of
vision?

Promise, this'll be the last time I bring this up,

Mike




Mike Nelson wrote:
>
> The distance between using an autopilot, copilot, heading hold or
> altitude hold gyros and a robotic glider that is flown by commands is
> one step...add a microcontroller. I think we need to decide if that's
> the direction that we want to take contests.
>
> If it's more pitch stability that you want to keep your ship in one
> piece when you lose it visually then move your CG forward. If it's
> more roll stability that you want then add some small wingtip
> extensions with a 30 or 45 degree orientation to increase the
> effective dihedral.
>
> MikeN
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
Michael Deleo
SRI International, San Luis Obispo Office
805-542-9330 x111
michael.deleo@...

I have tried the BTA autopilot with the thought of using it to save a glider if
need be. Didn't work at all, when turned on a shallow dive was the result.
Now if I loose sight and am flying a SBXC I put it in crow and right stick
pulled back into a corner. The result for me is a safe sprial and so far always
seeing a flash thus saving the glider. I have tried this many times flying for
fun. The key of course is to react quickly before speed builds up.
So far I havn't done my homework on the MXC as far as testing in a non contest
condition. At least twice in contests I have lost it in the sun.Both times I
pulled the stick back putting the glider into a loop and then a recovery after
gaining sight. I will be trying the crow technique before the next contest.
These are just some of the things we need to practice and become comfortable
doing.
Regards Dean

  The distance between using an autopilot, copilot, heading hold or altitude
hold gyros and a robotic glider that is flown by commands is one step...add a
microcontroller. I think we need to decide if that's the direction that we want
to take contests.

 If it's more pitch stability that you want to keep your ship in one piece when
you lose it visually then move your CG forward. If it's more roll stability that
you want then add some small wingtip extensions with a 30 or 45 degree
orientation to increase the effective dihedral.

MikeN






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have used gyros on both the rudder and ailerons in my SBXC. Neither worked to
my satisfaction. The gyro was not a heading lock gyro used in Heli's.
The problems I ran into were not good. In the case of the rudder the glider wold
oscillate left and right, getting worse with each oscillation, I believe that
the dihedral was a factor.
             Basic aerodynamics, when the rudder is deflected the aircraft yaws,
one wing accelerates causing it to create more lift, thus a bank and turn that
gets worse with each rudder deflection.
If you were to have a gyro on both the rudder and ailerons it might keep the
plane going straight. But we use separate servos for each aileron, now we are
talking 3 independent gyros that must work together, not sure that would work.
In my case I used 1 gyro on a single aileron with very poor results'
I suppose the answer is an auto pilot or keep the plane within your visual
capabilities.
Just my 2 cents, and for those who don't know me I am a full scale glider
instructor.
Rich B

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bruce,
I have some very good remote video equipment, including cameras,
transmitters, several types of receivers, viewing and recording equipment,
batteries, wires, etc.  that I am interested in selling.  The range on the
system is 5 miles LOS.  It is great for looking for lost planes and such.
I have a couple thousand invested, but will let it all go for $650 (the cost
of one of the receivers).

I lost control of a plane a couple years ago, while filming.  It flew over
houses, roads and fields, finally landing in a field near a telephone pole.
The camera was still on, but all it showed was the bottom of a pole and some
thistle. We drove all over trying to find it.  After an hour of searching, I
went up to a house and had the owners view the recorded video.  They said:
"That's our house!  That's our backyard.  That's the telephone pole at the
corner of our lot."  We walked around and up over a slight ridge, and there
it was.  Somehow, there was no damage to the plane and the camera was still
working just fine.

Tom

T&G Innovations, LLC
32 Mount View Dr
Afton, VA  22920
540 943-3356
fx 943-4178

----- Original Message -----
From: "bruceja2000" <bruce.johnson@...>
To: "TJB" <tom@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: I can't see it!!


> Hi all,
>
> I have had the same problem with large scale models and will watch for
> suggestions. I am considering adding a FPV for emergency control and
> relocation. Any thoughts??
>
> --- In xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com, "TJB" <tom@...> wrote:
>>
>> I've tried gyros and the BTA and BTA with GPS.  Nothing really works that
>> well.  Big thing was what it did when you turned it on.  It would
>> basically lay the plane over.  If you had time to work with it, you could
>> get it to track okay for a short time.   I've tried it on ailerons and
>> elevator.
>>
>> If you use a gyro on the elevator, the plane will stall if it keeps
>> trying to maintain the same altitude without actually having lift.  This
>> ends up in a dive -- and the gyro will do just fine keeping it going
>> straight into the ground.  A simple gyro on rudder will work to keep a
>> basic course though a tree tunnel or something.  I timed for David Beach
>> at Muncie and his AVA did pretty well with the rudder gyro when really
>> needed.
>>
>> I wouldn't trust one on my MXC or SBXC.
>>
>> TJB
>>
>> Adam can likely shed a whole lot more light on the subject.
>>
>> Adam Propst
>>
>> NextGen Aeronautics, Inc.
>>
>> 150 Slayton Avenue
>>
>> Danville, VA  24540
>>
>> Office:  (434) 766-6680 x4
>>
>> Lab:  (434) 791-3014
>>
>> Cell:  (919) 413-1694
>>
>> Email: apropst@...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>   From: John Ellias
>>   To: XC Soaring List
>>   Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:16 PM
>>   Subject: Re: [xcsoaring] I can't see it!!
>>
>>
>>
>>   Dudely,
>>
>>   I do not know the specifics of the JR G370  gyro, but from what little
>> I know about gyros I do not think they would be effective to control
>> pitch.  I have tried using a rate gyro to enhance the spiral stability of
>> an SBXC.  The gyro is installed to sense yaw but control the aileron's.
>> As a glider is turned  by banking and yawing, the gyro senses the yaw and
>> feeds in opposite aileron.  This creates more spiral stability, just as
>> if the glider had more dihedral.  A much better explanation then I can
>> give can be found at :  http://www.rc-soar.com/tech/spiral.htm  .  I
>> thought it might be helpful at high altitude when thermaling or when
>> cruising between thermals.  After using it a bit I determined it was of
>> no benefit as the SBXC already has good spiral stability.
>>
>>   Another system Both Dean Gradwell and I have tried is the BTA auto
>> pilot.  It is not really an autopilot but a stabilization device.  I
>> thought it would be helpful for just the same situation you described.
>> Losing sight of the glider it could give more time to locate it before
>> Vne is exceeded.  It used a barometric sensor to control pitch and a rate
>> gyro to control the aileron's.  Again after using it a few times I found
>> that it did not work well and the glider always seemed to veer to one
>> side or another, sometimes in a dive.  I believe Dean also had similar
>> results so neither of us use it.
>>
>>   The only other device that seems like it might be useful is the FMA
>> Co-pilot.  It uses infrared sensors to locate the horizon as a reference
>> to stabilize the airplane.  From what I have read it seems to work well.
>> The main drawback for gliders is the sensor must be located outside of
>> the fuse and would cause considerable drag.  I have not seen this device
>> work firsthand.
>>
>>   John
>>
>>   ________________________________
>>   From: Dudley Dufort <dudley@...>
>>   To: XC Soaring List <xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com>
>>   Sent: Tue, December 8, 2009 10:22:23 AM
>>   Subject: [xcsoaring] I can't see it!!
>>
>>
>>   Oh the terror that those words conjure up.
>>
>>   While thumbing through my bathroom reading material, I picked up the
>>   latest edition of AMA. In it I saw a full page ad for the new JR G370
>>   3D gyro. Hmm, I wonder if that would work in a temporarily misplaced
>> MXC?
>>
>>   I called Horizon Hobby and here's what I found. First, they ain't cheap
>>   at $160 and they control only one channel. But, in the opinion of
>>   Horizon, it could save the day.
>>
>>   So, to my way of thinking, if I plugged a gyro into the elevator, in a
>>   fail safe mode that would control pitch. I could also program a bit of
>>   rudder and, ideally, that would cause my misplaced plane to fly in a
>>   flat circle until we spotted it again. Has anyone tried this?
>>
>>   Any comments?
>>
>>   __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
>> signature database 4670 (20091208) __________
>>
>>   The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>>
>>   part000.txt - decompression could not complete (possible reasons:
>> insufficient free memory or disk space, or a problem with temp folders)
>>
>>   http://www.eset. com
>>
>>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>

I've tried gyros and the BTA and BTA with GPS.  Nothing really works that well. 
Big thing was what it did when you turned it on.  It would basically lay the
plane over.  If you had time to work with it, you could get it to track okay for
a short time.   I've tried it on ailerons and elevator.

If you use a gyro on the elevator, the plane will stall if it keeps trying to
maintain the same altitude without actually having lift.  This ends up in a dive
-- and the gyro will do just fine keeping it going straight into the ground.  A
simple gyro on rudder will work to keep a basic course though a tree tunnel or
something.  I timed for David Beach at Muncie and his AVA did pretty well with
the rudder gyro when really needed.

I wouldn't trust one on my MXC or SBXC.

TJB

Adam can likely shed a whole lot more light on the subject.

Adam Propst

NextGen Aeronautics, Inc.

150 Slayton Avenue

Danville, VA  24540

Office:  (434) 766-6680 x4

Lab:  (434) 791-3014

Cell:  (919) 413-1694

Email: apropst@...





   ----- Original Message -----
   From: John Ellias
   To: XC Soaring List
   Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:16 PM
   Subject: Re: [xcsoaring] I can't see it!!



   Dudely,

   I do not know the specifics of the JR G370  gyro, but from what little I know
about gyros I do not think they would be effective to control pitch.  I have
tried using a rate gyro to enhance the spiral stability of an SBXC.  The gyro is
installed to sense yaw but control the aileron's.  As a glider is turned  by
banking and yawing, the gyro senses the yaw and feeds in opposite aileron.  This
creates more spiral stability, just as if the glider had more dihedral.  A much
better explanation then I can give can be found at : 
http://www.rc-soar.com/tech/spiral.htm  .  I thought it might be helpful at high
altitude when thermaling or when cruising between thermals.  After using it a
bit I determined it was of no benefit as the SBXC already has good spiral
stability.

   Another system Both Dean Gradwell and I have tried is the BTA auto pilot.  It
is not really an autopilot but a stabilization device.  I thought it would be
helpful for just the same situation you described. Losing sight of the glider it
could give more time to locate it before Vne is exceeded.  It used a barometric
sensor to control pitch and a rate gyro to control the aileron's.  Again after
using it a few times I found that it did not work well and the glider always
seemed to veer to one side or another, sometimes in a dive.  I believe Dean also
had similar results so neither of us use it.

   The only other device that seems like it might be useful is the FMA Co-pilot. 
It uses infrared sensors to locate the horizon as a reference to stabilize the
airplane.  From what I have read it seems to work well.  The main drawback for
gliders is the sensor must be located outside of the fuse and would cause
considerable drag.  I have not seen this device work firsthand.

   John

   ________________________________
   From: Dudley Dufort <dudley@...>
   To: XC Soaring List <xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Tue, December 8, 2009 10:22:23 AM
   Subject: [xcsoaring] I can't see it!!


   Oh the terror that those words conjure up.

   While thumbing through my bathroom reading material, I picked up the
   latest edition of AMA. In it I saw a full page ad for the new JR G370
   3D gyro. Hmm, I wonder if that would work in a temporarily misplaced MXC?

   I called Horizon Hobby and here's what I found. First, they ain't cheap
   at $160 and they control only one channel. But, in the opinion of
   Horizon, it could save the day.

   So, to my way of thinking, if I plugged a gyro into the elevator, in a
   fail safe mode that would control pitch. I could also program a bit of
   rudder and, ideally, that would cause my misplaced plane to fly in a
   flat circle until we spotted it again. Has anyone tried this?

   Any comments?

   __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 4670 (20091208) __________

   The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

   part000.txt - decompression could not complete (possible reasons: insufficient
free memory or disk space, or a problem with temp folders)

   http://www.eset. com

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, I know that feeling of dread.  I lost Dudley's SBXC one year at
Montague when my eyes teared up in the wind and it instantly
dissappeared at +3000 ft.  We found it in a cow pasture about a half
mile down the road completely destroyed with parts of the fuse sunk into
the dirt about 10inches.   That was a lot of energy on impact.
Thankfully no cows were injured or killed.   At this years Montague we
lost sight of our SBXC at 3100 ft and reacquired visual at about 1500 ft
going straight down.  It took another 800 ft to pull out without
shedding the wings.  I think that was a case of the lateral distance
being a big factor (hypotenuse of the triangle).  If the plane is
straight overhead it usually isnt a problem but that sets up another
problem, if you are at say 3500-4000 ft AGL straight overhead and
everything is fine and then cut a corner it can get real small real fast
with not only distance being a factor but angle of view between the
pilot and the plane (smaller side profile).    Another time we lost
sight of the plane thru a long line of trees and came out the other end
with no plane in sight..(that's a real bad feeling).   About 10 or 20
seconds later we lucked out and spied it going in the exact opposite
direction, somehow it managed to turn a 180 even though the pilot was
trying to fly straight while blinded by the treeline.  That's an
instance where a gyro on rudder might have really helped.   And maybe it
would reduce the problem of having to race thru tree lines as fast as
possible with the chase vehicle in order to regain sight of the model.


I think some experimenting with fail safe and gyro, etc could result in
a setup with the least potential to impact at high speed in cases like
this.  I have seen pilots do the "loop to loop" method after losing
sight but that one always scares me.  Too easy to veer off into a high
speed death spiral

steve

-----Original Message-----
From: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Michael Deleo
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 2:25 PM
To: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [xcsoaring] Re: I can't see it!!

Steve,

I couldn't agree more. The first thought that went through my head was,
"Please don't let this thing shed its wings and go through someone's
roof!".

This may sound strange, but has anyone considered a drogue chute
deployable from the bottom of the rudder ala older generation FS
sailplanes? Just enough drag to make you come down in out-of-sight cases
and/or land in a small field? It's a one-shot but that's really all you
need.

Rudder, elevator and drogue chute (RED)... The simple cross-country
ship!

Half joking,

Mike


Henke, Steve wrote:
>
> I would argue this from a safety point of view as well as lost
> equipment. An 11 lb model that is out of control can become an
> unguided missile that could have fatal results. Sure, we fly in
> generally low population areas but if a disaster like this ever
> happened it could be the end of XC as we know it. Anyone who has flown

> XC long enough has gone thru the scary experience of losing sight of
> the model and its not fun. If a gyro could be made to work to allow
> safe passage thru tree tunnels or deeply cut corners (legal cuts) or
> to give the pilot/spotter a better chance to reacquire visual then I'm

> all for it. I dont think it would or even could aid in thermalling and

> any device that is a true thermalling type autopilot I believe most
> pilots would be against (cheating).
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Michael
> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:17 PM
> To: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [xcsoaring] Re: I can't see it!!
>
> As a one-time member of the Thermaling Into Outer Space Club, I can
> share some experience.
>
> I have a Futaba gyro in one of my ships tied to the rudder. The gyro
> can be turned on or of with a switch on the transmitter. I was more
> interested in a "heading lock" kind of thing than a "fly to safety"
> solution but haven't worked it enough to know if it's worth the
effort.
>
> With regard to losing sight of the plane, I lost a plane at Cal Valley

> the year before last. It's not just the height that will kill you,
> horizontal distance counts as well (think "hypotenuse from high-school

> geometry). It was windy and I tightened up in a thermal that was
> drifting away from the chase vehicle. Within three or four turns, it
> went from visible to speck to gone.
>
> The lift can be so strong at some of the places we fly in the West
> that not even full flaps (and crow) will always save the day. The lift

> typically gets stronger with height, so that can add insult to injury
> if you're not careful. I've been working on a transmitter mode/flight
> phase to create a kind of benign spiral for one of my planes
> (hands-off, plane in shallow turning dive that doesn't over-speed).
>
> The best solution might be to have the stabilizer, if you have an
> all-flying one, go up to 70 or 80 degrees and "de-thermalize" like the

> free-flight guys do. The mechanics of pulling that off might be a
> challenge, though.
>
> The gyro almost feels like cheating because it is a form of autopilot.
> Anyone else feel the same?
>
> Mike
>
> --- In xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com> , Dudley Dufort <dudley@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Oh the terror that those words conjure up.
> >
> > While thumbing through my bathroom reading material, I picked up the

> > latest edition of AMA. In it I saw a full page ad for the new JR
> > G370 3D gyro. Hmm, I wonder if that would work in a temporarily
> > misplaced
> MXC?
> >
> > I called Horizon Hobby and here's what I found. First, they ain't
> cheap
> > at $160 and they control only one channel. But, in the opinion of
> > Horizon, it could save the day.
> >
> > So, to my way of thinking, if I plugged a gyro into the elevator, in

> > a
>
> > fail safe mode that would control pitch. I could also program a bit
> > of
>
> > rudder and, ideally, that would cause my misplaced plane to fly in a

> > flat circle until we spotted it again. Has anyone tried this?
> >
> > Any comments?
> >
> >
> > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature database 4670 (20091208) __________
> >
> > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
> >
> > part000.txt - decompression could not complete (possible reasons:
> insufficient free memory or disk space, or a problem with temp
> folders)
> >
> > http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> <http://www.eset.com
> <http://www.eset.com>>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
Michael Deleo
SRI International, San Luis Obispo Office 805-542-9330 x111
michael.deleo@...




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Steve,

I couldn't agree more. The first thought that went through my head was,
"Please don't let this thing shed its wings and go through someone's roof!".

This may sound strange, but has anyone considered a drogue chute
deployable from the bottom of the rudder ala older generation FS
sailplanes? Just enough drag to make you come down in out-of-sight cases
and/or land in a small field? It's a one-shot but that's really all you
need.

Rudder, elevator and drogue chute (RED)... The simple cross-country ship!

Half joking,

Mike


Henke, Steve wrote:
>
> I would argue this from a safety point of view as well as lost
> equipment. An 11 lb model that is out of control can become an unguided
> missile that could have fatal results. Sure, we fly in generally low
> population areas but if a disaster like this ever happened it could be
> the end of XC as we know it. Anyone who has flown XC long enough has
> gone thru the scary experience of losing sight of the model and its not
> fun. If a gyro could be made to work to allow safe passage thru tree
> tunnels or deeply cut corners (legal cuts) or to give the pilot/spotter
> a better chance to reacquire visual then I'm all for it. I dont think
> it would or even could aid in thermalling and any device that is a true
> thermalling type autopilot I believe most pilots would be against
> (cheating).
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com>] On
> Behalf Of Michael
> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:17 PM
> To: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [xcsoaring] Re: I can't see it!!
>
> As a one-time member of the Thermaling Into Outer Space Club, I can
> share some experience.
>
> I have a Futaba gyro in one of my ships tied to the rudder. The gyro can
> be turned on or of with a switch on the transmitter. I was more
> interested in a "heading lock" kind of thing than a "fly to safety"
> solution but haven't worked it enough to know if it's worth the effort.
>
> With regard to losing sight of the plane, I lost a plane at Cal Valley
> the year before last. It's not just the height that will kill you,
> horizontal distance counts as well (think "hypotenuse from high-school
> geometry). It was windy and I tightened up in a thermal that was
> drifting away from the chase vehicle. Within three or four turns, it
> went from visible to speck to gone.
>
> The lift can be so strong at some of the places we fly in the West that
> not even full flaps (and crow) will always save the day. The lift
> typically gets stronger with height, so that can add insult to injury if
> you're not careful. I've been working on a transmitter mode/flight phase
> to create a kind of benign spiral for one of my planes (hands-off, plane
> in shallow turning dive that doesn't over-speed).
>
> The best solution might be to have the stabilizer, if you have an
> all-flying one, go up to 70 or 80 degrees and "de-thermalize" like the
> free-flight guys do. The mechanics of pulling that off might be a
> challenge, though.
>
> The gyro almost feels like cheating because it is a form of autopilot.
> Anyone else feel the same?
>
> Mike
>
> --- In xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> Dudley Dufort <dudley@...> wrote:
> >
> > Oh the terror that those words conjure up.
> >
> > While thumbing through my bathroom reading material, I picked up the
> > latest edition of AMA. In it I saw a full page ad for the new JR G370
> > 3D gyro. Hmm, I wonder if that would work in a temporarily misplaced
> MXC?
> >
> > I called Horizon Hobby and here's what I found. First, they ain't
> cheap
> > at $160 and they control only one channel. But, in the opinion of
> > Horizon, it could save the day.
> >
> > So, to my way of thinking, if I plugged a gyro into the elevator, in a
>
> > fail safe mode that would control pitch. I could also program a bit of
>
> > rudder and, ideally, that would cause my misplaced plane to fly in a
> > flat circle until we spotted it again. Has anyone tried this?
> >
> > Any comments?
> >
> >
> > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature database 4670 (20091208) __________
> >
> > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
> >
> > part000.txt - decompression could not complete (possible reasons:
> insufficient free memory or disk space, or a problem with temp folders)
> >
> > http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> <http://www.eset.com
> <http://www.eset.com>>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
Michael Deleo
SRI International, San Luis Obispo Office
805-542-9330 x111
michael.deleo@...

I would argue this from a safety point of view as well as lost
equipment.  An 11 lb model that is out of control can become an unguided
missile that could have fatal results.  Sure, we fly in generally low
population areas but if a disaster like this ever happened it could be
the end of XC as we know it.  Anyone who has flown XC long enough has
gone thru the scary experience of losing sight of the model and its not
fun.   If a gyro could be made to work to allow safe passage thru tree
tunnels or deeply cut corners (legal cuts) or to give the pilot/spotter
a better chance to reacquire visual then I'm all for it.  I dont think
it would or even could aid in thermalling and any device that is a true
thermalling type autopilot I believe most pilots would be against
(cheating).

Steve



________________________________

From: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com [mailto:xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Michael
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:17 PM
To: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [xcsoaring] Re: I can't see it!!




As a one-time member of the Thermaling Into Outer Space Club, I can
share some experience.

I have a Futaba gyro in one of my ships tied to the rudder. The gyro can
be turned on or of with a switch on the transmitter. I was more
interested in a "heading lock" kind of thing than a "fly to safety"
solution but haven't worked it enough to know if it's worth the effort.

With regard to losing sight of the plane, I lost a plane at Cal Valley
the year before last. It's not just the height that will kill you,
horizontal distance counts as well (think "hypotenuse from high-school
geometry). It was windy and I tightened up in a thermal that was
drifting away from the chase vehicle. Within three or four turns, it
went from visible to speck to gone.

The lift can be so strong at some of the places we fly in the West that
not even full flaps (and crow) will always save the day. The lift
typically gets stronger with height, so that can add insult to injury if
you're not careful. I've been working on a transmitter mode/flight phase
to create a kind of benign spiral for one of my planes (hands-off, plane
in shallow turning dive that doesn't over-speed).

The best solution might be to have the stabilizer, if you have an
all-flying one, go up to 70 or 80 degrees and "de-thermalize" like the
free-flight guys do. The mechanics of pulling that off might be a
challenge, though.

The gyro almost feels like cheating because it is a form of autopilot.
Anyone else feel the same?

Mike

--- In xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com> ,
Dudley Dufort <dudley@...> wrote:
>
> Oh the terror that those words conjure up.
>
> While thumbing through my bathroom reading material, I picked up the
> latest edition of AMA. In it I saw a full page ad for the new JR G370
> 3D gyro. Hmm, I wonder if that would work in a temporarily misplaced
MXC?
>
> I called Horizon Hobby and here's what I found. First, they ain't
cheap
> at $160 and they control only one channel. But, in the opinion of
> Horizon, it could save the day.
>
> So, to my way of thinking, if I plugged a gyro into the elevator, in a

> fail safe mode that would control pitch. I could also program a bit of

> rudder and, ideally, that would cause my misplaced plane to fly in a
> flat circle until we spotted it again. Has anyone tried this?
>
> Any comments?
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
signature database 4670 (20091208) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> part000.txt - decompression could not complete (possible reasons:
insufficient free memory or disk space, or a problem with temp folders)
>
> http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com>
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As a one-time member of the Thermaling Into Outer Space Club, I can  share some
experience.

I have a Futaba gyro in one of my ships tied to the rudder.  The gyro can be
turned on or of with a switch on the transmitter.  I was more interested in a
"heading lock" kind of thing than a "fly to safety" solution but haven't worked
it enough to know if it's worth the effort.

With regard to losing sight of the plane, I lost a plane at Cal Valley the year
before last.   It's not just the height that will kill you, horizontal distance
counts as well (think "hypotenuse from high-school geometry).   It was windy and
I tightened up in a thermal that was drifting away from the chase vehicle.  
Within three or four turns, it went from visible to speck to gone.

The lift can be so strong at some of the places we fly in the West that not even
full flaps (and crow) will always save the day.  The lift typically gets
stronger with height, so that can add insult to injury if you're not careful. 
I've been working on a transmitter mode/flight phase to create a kind of benign
spiral for one of my planes (hands-off, plane in shallow turning dive that
doesn't over-speed).

The best solution might be to have the stabilizer, if you have an all-flying
one, go up to 70 or 80 degrees and "de-thermalize" like the free-flight guys do.
The mechanics of pulling that off might be a challenge, though.

The gyro almost feels like cheating because it is a form of autopilot.  Anyone
else feel the same?

Mike



--- In xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com, Dudley Dufort <dudley@...> wrote:
>
> Oh the terror that those words conjure up.
>
> While thumbing through my bathroom reading material, I picked up the
> latest edition of AMA.  In it I saw a full page ad for the new JR G370
> 3D gyro.  Hmm, I wonder if that would work in a temporarily misplaced MXC?
>
> I called Horizon Hobby and here's what I found.  First, they ain't cheap
> at $160 and they control only one channel.  But, in the opinion of
> Horizon, it could save the day.
>
> So, to my way of thinking, if I plugged a gyro into the elevator, in a
> fail safe mode that would control pitch.  I could also program a bit of
> rudder and, ideally, that would cause my misplaced plane to fly in a
> flat circle until we spotted it again.  Has anyone tried this?
>
> Any comments?
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 4670 (20091208) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>     part000.txt - decompression could not complete (possible reasons:
insufficient free memory or disk space, or a problem with temp folders)
>
> http://www.eset.com
>

Dudely,

I do not know the specifics of the JR G370  gyro, but from what little I know
about gyros I do not think they would be effective to control pitch.  I have
tried using a rate gyro to enhance the spiral stability of an SBXC.  The gyro
is installed to sense yaw but control the aileron's.  As a glider is turned 
by banking and yawing, the gyro senses the yaw and feeds in opposite aileron. 
This creates more spiral stability, just as if the glider had more dihedral.  A
much better explanation then I can give can be found at : 
http://www.rc-soar.com/tech/spiral.htm  .  I thought it might be helpful at
high altitude when thermaling or when cruising between thermals.  After using
it a bit I determined it was of no benefit as the SBXC already has good spiral
stability. 

Another system Both Dean Gradwell and I have tried is the BTA auto pilot.  It
is not really an autopilot but a stabilization device.  I thought it would be
helpful for just the same situation you described. Losing sight of the glider
it could give more time to locate it before Vne is exceeded.  It used a
barometric sensor to control pitch and a rate gyro to control the aileron's. 
Again after using it a few times I found that it did not work well and the
glider always seemed to veer to one side or another, sometimes in a dive.  I
believe Dean also had similar results so neither of us use it.

The only other device that seems like it might be useful is the FMA Co-pilot. 
It uses infrared sensors to locate the horizon as a reference to stabilize the
airplane.  From what I have read it seems to work well.  The main drawback for
gliders is the sensor must be located outside of the fuse and would cause
considerable drag.  I have not seen this device work firsthand.

John







________________________________
From: Dudley Dufort <dudley@...>
To: XC Soaring List <xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, December 8, 2009 10:22:23 AM
Subject: [xcsoaring] I can't see it!!

 
Oh the terror that those words conjure up.

While thumbing through my bathroom reading material, I picked up the
latest edition of AMA. In it I saw a full page ad for the new JR G370
3D gyro. Hmm, I wonder if that would work in a temporarily misplaced MXC?

I called Horizon Hobby and here's what I found. First, they ain't cheap
at $160 and they control only one channel. But, in the opinion of
Horizon, it could save the day.

So, to my way of thinking, if I plugged a gyro into the elevator, in a
fail safe mode that would control pitch. I could also program a bit of
rudder and, ideally, that would cause my misplaced plane to fly in a
flat circle until we spotted it again. Has anyone tried this?

Any comments?

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 4670 (20091208) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

part000.txt - decompression could not complete (possible reasons: insufficient
free memory or disk space, or a problem with temp folders)

http://www.eset. com







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would think a rudder gyro to keep your heading as you pass line of sight
obstructions (trees, etc) might be a good option.



I was watching r/c groups and saw some aerobatic smoke cannisters that can be
remotely activated, was thinking they might help find wayward planes, is fire
hazzard a real risk here though?



Scott








To: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com
From: dudley@...
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:22:23 -0800
Subject: [xcsoaring] I can't see it!!





Oh the terror that those words conjure up.

While thumbing through my bathroom reading material, I picked up the
latest edition of AMA. In it I saw a full page ad for the new JR G370
3D gyro. Hmm, I wonder if that would work in a temporarily misplaced MXC?

I called Horizon Hobby and here's what I found. First, they ain't cheap
at $160 and they control only one channel. But, in the opinion of
Horizon, it could save the day.

So, to my way of thinking, if I plugged a gyro into the elevator, in a
fail safe mode that would control pitch. I could also program a bit of
rudder and, ideally, that would cause my misplaced plane to fly in a
flat circle until we spotted it again. Has anyone tried this?

Any comments?

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 4670 (20091208) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

part000.txt - decompression could not complete (possible reasons: insufficient
free memory or disk space, or a problem with temp folders)

http://www.eset.com





_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail is faster and more secure than ever.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=P\
ID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_1:092009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oh the terror that those words conjure up.

While thumbing through my bathroom reading material, I picked up the
latest edition of AMA.  In it I saw a full page ad for the new JR G370
3D gyro.  Hmm, I wonder if that would work in a temporarily misplaced MXC?

I called Horizon Hobby and here's what I found.  First, they ain't cheap
at $160 and they control only one channel.  But, in the opinion of
Horizon, it could save the day.

So, to my way of thinking, if I plugged a gyro into the elevator, in a
fail safe mode that would control pitch.  I could also program a bit of
rudder and, ideally, that would cause my misplaced plane to fly in a
flat circle until we spotted it again.  Has anyone tried this?

Any comments?


__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 4670 (20091208) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

     part000.txt - decompression could not complete (possible reasons:
insufficient free memory or disk space, or a problem with temp folders)

http://www.eset.com

I'm in for Davis.  Can't say that I'd want to "round-trip-it" to Cal Val
with the vagaries of February's weather.

"Jonesin' for XC"

Richard Beardsley wrote:
>
>
> The V-Tail MXC is repaired, thanks to Rich Spicer & RnR.  I spent
> Monday and Tuesday splicing things together, looks good as new.
> I would be up for a test session at Cal Val, it could also be done at
> the Davis site. I will be testing the V-Tail as soon as the radio is
> installed and will upload the GPS traces.
> Rich B
>
> --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Michael Deleo <michael.deleo@...
> <mailto:michael.deleo%40sri.com>> wrote:
>
> From: Michael Deleo <michael.deleo@...
> <mailto:michael.deleo%40sri.com>>
> Subject: Re: [xcsoaring] Flight Testing at Cal Valley
> To: "deanhg97530" <dean@... <mailto:dean%40xcsoaring.com>>
> Cc: "John Ellias" <xcsoaringpilot@...
> <mailto:xcsoaringpilot%40yahoo.com>>, xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 5:05 PM
>
>
>
> Dean,
>
> A group of us have been flying F3B every other weekend out there and I
> would agree with Greg; it you want still air for measurements don't be
> out there on a pre or post-frontal day. Last Saturday was one such day
> and we had strong lift and Cu forming above us for most of the day.
> Windy in the afternoon.
>
> Here's what I monitor:
>
> http://www.wundergr ound.com/ cgi-bin/findweat her/getForecast?
> query=93251# PWS
>
> More stations at the bottom. You can also monitor Dr Jack's site:
>
> http://www.drjack. info/BLIP/ NAM/CANV/ index.html
>
> For testing, you're going to want to see "greens" and "blues" on those
> maps.
>
> You're probably going to need to get up at the crack of dawn and hang
> out with the balloon guys :(
>
> Mike
>
> John Ellias wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dean,
> >
> > I think Greg is right about the weather, but the odds are the weather
> > will be ok. Even though Feb is the probably the wettest month of the
> > year, we just don't get much rain period.
> >
> > I am definately up for a Group flight testing event at Cal Valley. I
> > would also like to do some GPS flight testing on MXC like I did with
> > the SBXC. Lets try to plan something and just keep a close eye on the
> > weather.
> >
> > John
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: deanhg97530 <dean@xcsoaring. com <mailto:dean% 40xcsoaring. com>>
> > To: xcsoaring@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:xcsoaring% 40yahoogroups. com>
> > Sent: Mon, November 23, 2009 7:26:54 PM
> > Subject: [xcsoaring] Flight Testing at Cal Valley
> >
> >
> > Anyone know what the weather is like in the middle of Feburary. Need
> > to try long final glides in neutral air. Group flght testing is good.
> > Regards Dean
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
> --
> Michael Deleo
> SRI International, San Luis Obispo Office
> 805-542-9330 x111
> michael.deleo@ sri.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature database 4636 (20091125) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus
> signature database 4636 (20091125) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> part000.txt - decompression could not complete (possible reasons:
> insufficient free memory or disk space, or a problem with temp folders)
> part001.htm - decompression could not complete (possible reasons:
> insufficient free memory or disk space, or a problem with temp folders)
>
> http://www.eset.com


__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 4636 (20091125) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

     part000.txt - decompression could not complete (possible reasons:
insufficient free memory or disk space, or a problem with temp folders)

http://www.eset.com

The V-Tail MXC is repaired, thanks to Rich Spicer & RnR.  I spent Monday and
Tuesday splicing things together, looks good as new.
I would be up for a test session at Cal Val, it could also be done at the Davis
site. I will be testing the V-Tail as soon as the radio is installed and will
upload the GPS traces.
Rich B

--- On Tue, 11/24/09, Michael Deleo <michael.deleo@...> wrote:


From: Michael Deleo <michael.deleo@...>
Subject: Re: [xcsoaring] Flight Testing at Cal Valley
To: "deanhg97530" <dean@...>
Cc: "John Ellias" <xcsoaringpilot@...>, xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 5:05 PM


 



Dean,

A group of us have been flying F3B every other weekend out there and I
would agree with Greg; it you want still air for measurements don't be
out there on a pre or post-frontal day. Last Saturday was one such day
and we had strong lift and Cu forming above us for most of the day.
Windy in the afternoon.

Here's what I monitor:

http://www.wundergr ound.com/ cgi-bin/findweat her/getForecast? query=93251# PWS

More stations at the bottom. You can also monitor Dr Jack's site:

http://www.drjack. info/BLIP/ NAM/CANV/ index.html

For testing, you're going to want to see "greens" and "blues" on those maps.

You're probably going to need to get up at the crack of dawn and hang
out with the balloon guys :(

Mike

John Ellias wrote:
>
>
> Dean,
>
> I think Greg is right about the weather, but the odds are the weather
> will be ok. Even though Feb is the probably the wettest month of the
> year, we just don't get much rain period.
>
> I am definately up for a Group flight testing event at Cal Valley. I
> would also like to do some GPS flight testing on MXC like I did with
> the SBXC. Lets try to plan something and just keep a close eye on the
> weather.
>
> John
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: deanhg97530 <dean@xcsoaring. com <mailto:dean% 40xcsoaring. com>>
> To: xcsoaring@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:xcsoaring% 40yahoogroups. com>
> Sent: Mon, November 23, 2009 7:26:54 PM
> Subject: [xcsoaring] Flight Testing at Cal Valley
>
>
> Anyone know what the weather is like in the middle of Feburary. Need
> to try long final glides in neutral air. Group flght testing is good.
> Regards Dean
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
Michael Deleo
SRI International, San Luis Obispo Office
805-542-9330 x111
michael.deleo@ sri.com








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dean,

A group of us have been flying F3B every other weekend out there and I
would agree with Greg; it you want still air for measurements don't be
out there on a pre or post-frontal day.   Last Saturday was one such day
and we had strong lift and Cu forming above us for most of the day.
Windy in the afternoon.

Here's what I monitor:


http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=93251#PWS

More stations at the bottom.  You can also monitor Dr Jack's site:

     http://www.drjack.info/BLIP/NAM/CANV/index.html

For testing, you're going to want to see "greens" and "blues" on those maps.

You're probably going to need to get up at the crack of dawn and hang
out with the balloon guys :(

Mike




John Ellias wrote:
>
>
> Dean,
>
> I think Greg is right about the weather, but  the odds are the weather
> will be ok.  Even though Feb is the probably the wettest month of the
> year, we just don't get much rain period.
>
> I am definately up for a Group flight testing event at Cal Valley.  I
> would also like to do some GPS flight testing on MXC like I did with
> the SBXC.  Lets try to plan something and just keep a close eye on the
> weather.
>
> John
>
> ________________________________
> From: deanhg97530 <dean@... <mailto:dean%40xcsoaring.com>>
> To: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xcsoaring%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, November 23, 2009 7:26:54 PM
> Subject: [xcsoaring] Flight Testing at Cal Valley
>
>
> Anyone know what the weather is like in the middle of Feburary. Need
> to try long final glides in neutral air. Group flght testing is good.
> Regards Dean
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
Michael Deleo
SRI International, San Luis Obispo Office
805-542-9330 x111
michael.deleo@...

Dean,

I think Greg is right about the weather, but  the odds are the weather will be
ok.  Even though Feb is the probably the wettest month of the year, we just
don't get much rain period. 

I am definately up for a Group flight testing event at Cal Valley.  I would
also like to do some GPS flight testing on MXC like I did with the SBXC.  Lets
try to plan something and just keep a close eye on the weather.

John




________________________________
From: deanhg97530 <dean@...>
To: xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, November 23, 2009 7:26:54 PM
Subject: [xcsoaring] Flight Testing at Cal Valley

 
Anyone know what the weather is like in the middle of Feburary. Need to try long
final glides in neutral air. Group flght testing is good.
Regards Dean







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think it is highly dependent on the storm systems.  Feb is one of the big
rain months in socal.  You could get a beautiful sunny day with no wind or a
week of rain.

If I am free pick me up on the way down.

Greg


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Anyone know what the weather is like in the middle of Feburary. Need to try long
final glides in neutral air. Group flght testing is good.
Regards Dean

 
Marcela and Dieter have updated the XC Soaring website with a report on the
recent Cal Valley event and an interesting article on a new XC event in
Germany.  Maybe we should try an XC on foot!  Check it out at :
http://www.xcsoaring.com/

John





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Guys,

Dominic Byani has completed his distance from the last CV event 10/31-11/1 -
however not sure who is the correct contact and whom to send the $10 for the
pin.
Does anyone have the process and contact info?
I've tried to send the scanned in application to Mike Gervais, but I've not
heard from him.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

thanks,

jack ~

Sorry about that. I don't know how that sucker picked up the XCSoaring
group. Please disregard.

Phil

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Phil Hill <phil.hill.48@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Xcsoaring,
>
>
> I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events
> and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join
> Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile.
>
> Thanks,
> Phil
>
> To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below:
>
>
http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1684130594&k=ZYMXX4W53ZTF6BD1QG6ZPPV2RSIB4XWASWI\
VB&r
>
> Already have an account? Add this email address to your account
>
http://www.facebook.com/n/?merge_accounts.php&e=xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com&c=6d00\
0f7dbb6e5233fabe2ee8da5bf7e6.xcsoaring@yahoogroups.comwas invited to join
Facebook by Phil Hill. If you do not wish to receive
> this type of email from Facebook in the future, please click on the link
> below to unsubscribe.
>
>
http://www.facebook.com/o.php?k=b057f8&u=100000506147816&mid=16e49dfG5af32ea573e\
8G0G8
>
> Facebook's offices are located at 1601 S. California Ave., Palo Alto, CA
> 94304.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
Phil


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Xcsoaring,

I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and
I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join
Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile.

Thanks,
Phil

To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below:
http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=1684130594&k=ZYMXX4W53ZTF6BD1QG6ZPPV2RSIB4XWASWI\
VB&r



Already have an account? Add this email address to your account
http://www.facebook.com/n/?merge_accounts.php&e=xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com&c=6d00\
0f7dbb6e5233fabe2ee8da5bf7e6.xcsoaring@yahoogroups.com was invited to join
Facebook by Phil Hill. If you do not wish to receive this type of email from
Facebook in the future, please click on the link below to unsubscribe.
http://www.facebook.com/o.php?k=b057f8&u=100000506147816&mid=16e49dfG5af32ea573e\
8G0G8
Facebook's offices are located at 1601 S. California Ave., Palo Alto, CA 94304.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To use the contest for LSF we would have to separate individual scores from
the teams.  If one pilot flew an entire flight, we could score that against
all the other flights made that day. There is a requirement for 3
opportunites to score.  In an XC contest there are potentially infinite
opportunities to score, or at least as many launches as you could make in
the window.  It doesn't say all the opportunities have to be used.

Any thoughts about making Friday an LSF day again instead of an  official
contest?  We could also make it an informal LSF contest for the purposes of
getting points/wins for anyone who wanted to participate.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What do we need to do to make our contests qualify for LSF achievements?
III- 10 , IV- 15, V- 20 pilots. Three rounds I believe, maybe a spot landing
contest in the morning. Would something like that be legal ?
Regards Dean