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12 Angry Men [and 911] (Was: Who's Right? opinions changing?)   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #479 of 1592 |
SUBJECT:
The movie "12 Angry Men" and its application to the Sept. 11 Attack,
and the change of attitude from near unanimous "let's go get those
devils," to one of seeking humble reconciliation, realizing that due
to the corruption in our country, in large part we did indeed have
this coming, and it could have been much worse; and that we need to
mend our ways, lest far worse come upon us.

will be posted to
http://www.greaterthings.com/News/911/

by Sterling D. Allan
Greater Things News Service
Sunday, Sept. 16, 2001

A METAPHOR -- 12 ANGRY MEN

Last night my wife and I watched the video, "12 Angry Men" starring
Jack Lemmon. It was the story of twelve jurors who, through course
of several hours debating, went from 11-1 "guilty" to unanimous "not
guilty" verdict.

At first, the eleven men thought the case was absolutely clear and
that the person was guilty. "All the evidence was so clear!" "We
knew in the first few minutes that the guy was guilty!"

The man played by Jack Lemmon was the only hold-out, saying that he
could not in good conscience convict a man to death when there was
the slightest doubt in his mind of the 'guilty' verdict, which there
was.

One by one, the pieces of 'evidence' were discussed (angrily), and
one by one, the jurors switched votes.

In the end, every piece of evidence was brought into questionable
standing, and every juror admitted that there was "reasonable doubt,"
so they entered a unanimous plea of "not guilty."

It was quite a show, with excellent acting.


APPLICATION TO SEPT. 11 ATTACK

The point is that as we debate this Sept. 11 attack scenario, the
knee-jerk reaction is to "go after those bastards and bomb them to
hell."

I believe, however, that a different course should be pursued, namely
of humbly realizing that we as a country in our decadent state, so
full of pride and hypocrisy, so full of corruption and intrigue, so
full of smut . . . the list goes on (though admittedly there are also
many redeeming qualities in the midst of this decadence); anyway that
because of our decadent state we did indeed 'have this coming' as the
Arabs have said.

Let's just be glad that God let us have this warning shot before
throwing the book at us a little further down the road, for surely if
we continue in our present course, we would deserve near utter
destruction.

I don't want that, you don't want that. Nobody wants that except the
gruesomely twisted who are calling the shots behind the scenes
seeking to draw the entire world into a dictatorship, and who could
care less if it means the destruction of nearly the entire planet.

So rather than seek hot revenge on the 911 attackers, perhaps we
should look inward and realize that unless we change our arrogance,
the anger of the Arab world will continue to seeth. Hot revenge
would only further increase their anger and their resolve -- backing
them into a corner. And with other nations like Russia and China
being more sympathetic to the Arabs than us, such a course would
ultimately lead to World War and . . . annihilation of the planet
except, perhaps, of a few saints who might be lifted up.

We have enough weapons on this planet to destroy every living
creature and make the planet uninhabitable for thousands of years.

Let's not do that.

And the only way to lasting peace is through righteousness, and a key
element of righteousness is humility, which requires the
acknowledgement of error.

I believe that the U.S. deserved what it got on September 11 -- that
actually they deserved a lot worse; and that the Arabs were acting as
a punishing hand of God to bring us to our senses, to galvanize us
and perhaps turn things around.

And that is what is happening to a significant extent.

God governs in the affairs of men. He would not have allowed to
happen what happened if we didn't have it coming to us to at least
some degree.

My goodness, we should have gotten this and worse many years ago, but
God has been extremely merciful, turning away or mitigating many
destructions that were slated to come upon us because there was
enough of a turn-around in the hearts of the people.

Well, I probably stand close to being alone on this, though there may
be a few who agree.

However, as the evidence is scrutinized, I believe that one by one,
others will realize this too.

And 11 angry jurors intent on sending a man to life-long prison and
possibly death, may change their vote one at a time until coming to
the unanimous verdict of "not guilty."

What if . . . what if God actually was using those terrorists to
punish us because of our decadent ways? Like a boy on the playground
who finally had enough of the bullying around, and punched the bully
hard enough to knock him out. The bully could either come to and
seek revenge -- only perpetuating the evil that he was with even
greater ferocity, or he could come to and realize that maybe he
shouldn't be a bully any more.

Should I chronicle for your the "bullying" acts of the United States
of America?

Such a list has already been compiled by many, but let me just cite a
few things that come to mind. I am compiling this list from the
saddle, without digging out references for each. I may have the
particulars mixed up in some cases, and even some of the main points
may have slight flaws in their portrayal. But the main gist is
accurate and substantiable by unending documentation.

First, after WWII, through Lend-Lease, the United States funded the
Soviet Union, enabling them to become the Frankenstein terror that
they were (and still are, though they are giddy to think we don't
think so any more).

Second, the U.S. abandoned Hungary (and other similar countries)
after telling them they would defend them, and the Russians went in
an brutally took over their country, slaughtering many.

Third, during the Korean and Vietnam Wars, while ostensibly fighting
a war against Communism, the insiders of the U.S. government were
passing all key intelligence to the U.N. who then relayed that
information to the Communists, so that the Communists were nearly
always apprised of U.S. maneuvers before they happened and were able
to prepare accordingly. Furthermore, rather than attacking military
targets only, at times they targeted innocent civilians, further
sullying the image of the war against communism, providing an entire
60's generation with the impetus to be soft on communism; which
generation is now leading this country, turning it into a socialist
state while claiming to be for freedom (and perhaps even thinking
that this big-brother heavy government is the preferable form of
freedom?).

Fourth, while supposedly "helping" third world countries through
loans, the U.S. has created such an impossible indebtedness that
these countries are near the brink of ruin.

Fifth, while supposedly waging a war on drugs, other covert elements
from the U.S. government have been actually involved in the transfer
of drugs as a means of financing other black operations.

Sixth, while supposedly waging a war on crime, the U.S. has sought to
disarm its law-abiding citizens, which takes from them their personal
means of defense; not to mention taking from them their ability to
resist a government-turned-tyranny.

Seventh, while supposedly fighting disease, the U.S. government has
shipped purposely tainted immunizations to third world countries to
help reduce some of the burgeoning populations there.

Eighth, time after time the U.S. government has covered up its
actions, portraying to the public one face while another is the
case. The public face is a benevolent one. The hidden face is a
monster. Many informed inhabitants of the planet are not blind to
this.

Ninth, the United States has been importing goods made from China and
other countries, which goods, in many cases, have been made in part
through slave labor camps and sweat shops, hence the low price. Even
the best-intentioned Americans have given in to buying these products
because they are so much cheaper. Meanwhile wrongfully incarcerated
political prisoners and others suffer while we live in false
prosperity.

Tenth, the United States has manipulated the financial status of its
own country as well as that of others, so as to make huge profits at
the detriment of millions worldwide who are less informed and unaware
of the looting.

Eleventh, the United States has made its 'patriot' community appear
as if they are an enemy potentially akin to terrorists. It is
these 'patriots' who know the above facts through their studies of
documentation upon documentation, who are appalled that the fabric of
America is so taken over by these elitist powers who can control the
major media, national education, big business, who then set the trend
for the small guys who don't dare step out of line less they be
trampled.

Twelfth, the United States has helped finance and train these
terrorists to the tune of billions of dollars, such as when helping
the Afganistanis become liberated from the Soviet Union -- which
itself on the surface appears noble. Due to darker elements in the
U.S. government, the government has turned the other way time after
time as terrorist camps have emerged.

Twelve angry truths, that is only a partial listing of the general
categories of corruption. For example, we could also list how
instead of importing freedom around the world, we have been importing
pornography and debauchery-lauding films; Coca Cola, cigarettes, etc.

Even the U.S. government's anger at the Sept. 11 attacks is
hypocritical, for their intelligence showed them what was coming, and
they allowed it to happen, to promote various dark agendas.

No, it isn't the Arabs who deserve our indignation. The enemy is
within -- the U.S. and in our own hearts.

It is time to wake up.

The greatest threat to freedom is not terrorism followed second by
overzealous patriots. The greatest threat to freedom is the
conspirators within our own government and other western governments,
who have facilitated the emergence of the various Frankenstein
elements of the world, including terrorism, including a vast threat
from China and the Soviet Union and their satellite countries.

And who do we blame for this? Ourselves, each and every one, for
letting it happen.

Which one of us has not bought Chinese goods? This very computer
infrastructure is made largely by parts manufactured or assembled in
China and other dictatorial countries that oppress their people's
freedoms, the most oppressed of which are making these products for
us at the point of a gun for a pittance existence in filth and
squalor.

Which one of us has not turned at one point or another or allowed an
intimate acquaintance of ours to turn to the troth of government hand-
outs which are exacted from the people by force of law, the violation
of which is possible imprisonment, with lesser violation resulting in
horrific penalties and harassment from IRS agents?

We all have blood on our hands to some extent or another. We all
must humble ourselves deeply before the Lord and acknowledge the
awfulness of our situation as a country.

We are at the brink of destruction because we have not been vigilant
but have allowed these secret combinations to get above us.

No, the Sept. 11 attack, terrible as it was, is only the tip of the
iceberg of what we deserve -- and of what we will get if we do not
mend our ways.

==============

see
http://www.greaterthings.com/News/911/
Prophetic Ramifications of the 911 Attack (Index)


Responding to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/davids_outcasts/message/8287

--- In davids_outcasts@y..., "Ginger Eldridge" <apoemge@w...> wrote:

I have to admit that when this all started I was of the bomb them and
kill them and hunt them down and squash them mentality. I think some
respects I still am in that place- I would certainly be for killing
the people who are behind this horror. However, I truly hope that we
can spare the innocent and unkowing. I found myself taking the stance
for peace when talking to my mother tonight. Something I wasn't sure
I believed until I had to defend my thoughts. I still find myself
wavering and maybe that is just fine at this point. Maybe the
wavering is part of the thinking and working to listen to the spirit
and let it lead rather than letting myself lead myself. Either way,
I'm glad I have had the chance to listen to the opinions of those on
this board. Thanks.

G

--- End message ---


see
http://www.greaterthings.com/News/911/
Prophetic Ramifications of the 911 Attack (Index)






Sun Sep 16, 2001 8:38 pm

sterlingda@...
Send Email Send Email

Forward
Message #479 of 1592 |
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SUBJECT: The movie "12 Angry Men" and its application to the Sept. 11 Attack, and the change of attitude from near unanimous "let's go get those devils," to...
Sterling D. Allan
sterlingda@...
Send Email
Sep 17, 2001
9:42 am

You sound just like right winger extremist Pat Robertson. He would have us believe, as you do, that those 5000+ 'civilians got what they deserved and it was...
Kenneth G. Samson - D...
samsonkg@...
Send Email
Sep 17, 2001
9:51 pm

What about those who languish in slave labor camps in China and elsewhere as political prisoners and such, who help make items sold in the United States. Do...
Sterling D. Allan
sterlingda@...
Send Email
Sep 18, 2001
3:16 pm

... Yes, your so right. It is much better for these unplanned babies to live a life feeling unwanted, being abused, tortured, beaten or to be murdered after...
sharonbrown28@...
Send Email
Sep 18, 2001
11:01 pm

[Could we please wind down the abortion debate? It really has nothing to do with the attacks, and as we all know, abortion arguments can go on and on endlessly...
Miss Flora - Webservant
webservant@...
Send Email
Sep 18, 2001
11:40 pm

[Could we please wind down the abortion debate? It really has nothing to do with the attacks, and as we all know, abortion arguments can go on and on endlessly...
Miss Flora - Webservant
webservant@...
Send Email
Sep 19, 2001
4:24 am

What about the 500,000 Iraqi post birth babies who died because of U.S. sanctions? ... nearly ... to ... be ... a ... you ... that ... don't...
Sterling D. Allan
sterlingda@...
Send Email
Sep 19, 2001
6:23 am

What about them? Do you think the governments impose these for the fun of it? Maybe because they're bored? NO, because there is a need for them, thats why....
sharonbrown28@...
Send Email
Sep 22, 2001
9:20 pm

BTW, it was Henry Fonda who starred in 12 Angry Men, not Jack Lemmon. Unless, there was a remake of the original. -Rick ... Attack, ... due ... unanimous "not...
rickmcd@...
Send Email
Sep 17, 2001
11:31 pm

The one I saw was a 1997 remake. Very well done. I've not seen the original. Sterling ... Lemmon. ... those ... have ... to ... starring ... course...
Sterling D. Allan
sterlingda@...
Send Email
Sep 18, 2001
3:17 pm

... Attack, ... due ... America probably 'had it coming' but that was because it did not appear to take the threat of the Arab world seriously. Your suggestion...
BRUCE@...
Send Email
Sep 18, 2001
9:38 am

Your initial reaction to my comments is similar to the initial reaction of the 11 men in "12 angry men" to the one man's suggestion that the verdict was not...
Sterling D. Allan
sterlingda@...
Send Email
Sep 18, 2001
3:17 pm

... suggestion ... even ... I went to your website and it was bloody awful. You sidestepped nearly all my points. Why would God punish America and not Russia, ...
BRUCE@...
Send Email
Sep 18, 2001
6:27 pm

God's "punishments" (just consequences) are based on accountability. The U.S. has been blessed more than any other nation, both with material wealth and with...
Sterling D. Allan
sterlingda@...
Send Email
Sep 19, 2001
6:30 am

... But why did God not only tell propheties in the torah? http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/diana.html /magnus -- Word of the week: ya shua (toothbrush) *...
Magnus Bodin
magnus@...
Send Email
Sep 19, 2001
7:48 am

... Rubbish. God's "punishments", if that is what they are and God does indeed exist, are the acts of a totalitarian dictator. Since we are not following his...
BRUCE@...
Send Email
Sep 19, 2001
7:49 pm

Mr. Allan, We did not have this coming, and to say so is inexcusable . No one in that building deserved to die. Not my cousin's husband. Not the rescue...
Rick Seiden
mrmath@...
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Sep 18, 2001
9:38 am
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