My daughter did her science fair project on growing and using sustainably
grown natural indigo.  She won a 2nd place for it at her district science
fair and competed at the regional fair yesterday.  She did exceedingly well
and came away with a gold medal and several cash awards.  She has also been
invited to represent our region at the National Science Fair competition in
Nova Scotia.  (We're in Canada)

She grew woad in her garden and tried to extract the dye.  That part of her
project didn't work and she is going to try that again this summer using the
wonderful directions on Teresinha's woad site.  She had to purchase some
Indian indigo to do her remaining experiments.

She wants to continue this project next year.  Unfortunately the seeds that
we bought from Ian Howard are not germinating.  I think that they probably
were treated with radiation on entering Canada (not his fault), as they were
not put in a foil envelope.  Would anyone be willing to send me woad seed in
a foil pouch so that we could have a second variety of woad for her to try
this year.  With two varieties she can do some comparison of productivity.

Our snow is gone now and we have 6 second year plants that made it through
the winter so we will be able to save seed this year.

I have Hurry's Book "The Woad Plant and Its Dye" scanned in PDF format (its
public domain) and I would trade a copy of the CD for a generous gift of
seeds for my DD project.

TIA
Chris

I have now got two very fragile looking tiny plants on my kitchen
windowsill.  How big should they be before I think about planting them
outside?  What protection should I give them?  Last year I used sawn-
off lemonde bottles, but some slugs still found their way underneath
and ate the plantlets.

M.

My seeds arrived yesterday from UK.  I got a 10g package from Ian Howard and
I assume it is from the varieties grown in the Spindigo project, as he was
part of that.  I never thought to ask the origin of the seeds -- so excited
was I to see that the seed was available.

I also got a small packet from Suffolk herbs which was labeled "wildflower",
so perhaps has not been selected for good dye qualities.

I also have a package of seed from Richter's in Canada, which I grew last
year in the garden.  I had good germination from the Richter's seed and will
compare the three seed stocks for vigor--if I can get them to grow.

It took less than a week to get to Canada.  Amazing since letters within
Canada take up to 2 weeks to travel across the country.

I am going to put some in a pot beside the wood stove to encourage
germination.  It is really still a month early to be starting things
indoors.  We had more snow yesterday, just when I thought winter was almost
over.

Chris
Greenwood, B.C.
Canada
http://fiberarts.ca

Historically in England allotments were each something like 30 feet by
10 feet minimum, the size need to keep a family of four in veg all year
round.  Many homes built in the UK up to WWII would also have back
gardens this size (lenght, not width though)  If you wanted to grow
soft fruit and flowers, you generally begged and pleaded for another
plot, adjoining if possible.  In some areas there are long waiting
lists and my pal in Leeds has just obtained a quarter plot (shows the
pressure in land in the UK at the moment!).

A group of holders would be able to buy in fertilisers etc at wholesale
prices - some have gone on to become proper businesses.

To bring this back to woad - I have had one seed sprout this morning!
Previous years on planting out they have been eaten, even though
covered with a "cloche" of a cut-down lemonade bottle.  I suspect
slugs, so this year I might try a big bottomless pot (rather like
growing mint) and lots of gravel round it.

M.

----- Original Message -----

From: Robin & Chris Dalziel

To: woadgrowers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 7:51 PM

Subject: RE: [woadgrowers] Getting woad to grow and Hurry's book

Hi, Teresinha

I left a comment in your guest book.  I love your site and have referred to it several times.  My DD is doing a science fair project on dyeing with Indigo and part of it is to hopefully have a live woad plant in a pot for the science fair.  (I hope it grows for her).  Your site will be in her bibliography for the report.

Do the libraries in UK have an interlibrary loan system?  That’s how I got the book.  And I was very surprised to get it.  It was only a week since I made the request.  By now the Hurry book should be in the public domain as he died in 1930, so it should have entered the public domain in 1980.  (or are the rules different in the UK?)  I wonder that it hasn’t been reprinted on the internet in PDF format.    

Your homemade paper cards are fascinating too.  My DD has done home made paper but only made gift cards out of it.  I hadn’t thought of incorporating our spinning threads into it too.  What a great idea!

What is an “allotment”?  Is it a farm or a garden plot or ???  We don’t have those in Canada but we do have community gardens where people in a city are assigned a plot within a community garden.  They usually have organic rules here.  So I wondered if it was the same thing? 

Of course, living on a farm we have more land than we actually have in cultivation.  My husband’s relatives from Scotland (Carluke and Haddington) were visiting many years ago and when they drove by our farm commented that Canada was just farmland and forest and rocks and trees with very few people.  You can drive for 2 hours in any direction from our farm before you find a city and that would be over 2 mountain passes.  Our nearest neighbor is 1 km. away.

Chris

http://fiberarts.ca

---

From: woadgrowers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:woadgrowers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Teresinha Roberts
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:47 AM
To: woadgrowers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [woadgrowers] Getting woad to grow and Hurry's book

Hi Chris

I was going to ask you which library has the Hurry book, when I noticed you are in Canada (I'm in UK).

Have you had a look at our woad website www.woad.org.uk ? It has a lot of information you may be looking for. If you have the time to leave a comment on the guestbook, I'd really appreaciate it!

It is also well worth trying out the woad swicki in the blog. It work much better than google.

Regards

Teresinha

www.wildpaper.co.uk

----- Original Message -----

From: Robin & Chris Dalziel

To: woadgrowers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:13 PM

Subject: [woadgrowers] Getting woad to grow and Hurry's book

After reading your posts I think I should be very happy I even have woad
plants in the garden! Instead of complaining that I'm not getting any
colour.

My very small local library brought in a copy of Hurry's book "The Woad
Plant" (loaned from a university library) and I spent the evening reading
it. Very interesting, although mostly history of the industry in the UK and
Europe.

Some things I learned from the book that may improve my chances of getting
colour next summer. The plant needs to be well weeded. (I'm not great at
keeping my garden weeded.) It doesn't fair well when having to compete with
weeds. And it needs vast quantities of manure to grow well, as well as
additions of lime/calcium. It was the first crop to be grown intensively
and taught husbandmen how to cultivate for the best harvest. So next summer
it will get its required manure. I have lots of it due to the sheep and
goats in my barn.

The seed should be started early but the plant may be damaged by late
frosts. Oh my, we have frost all summer, perhaps I will need to move it to
a bench with good frost drainage and put it under a cold frame.

The leaves should be washed before using them for dye. (Oops, I think I
just shoved them into the pot)

The flowers from the top of the dye vat are used to make an artist
pigment--blue lake. This I want to try, too. If only I could get some
blue.

Hurry's book doesn't mention woad being grown in Scotland at all. But it
does mention it in England, France, Italy, Germany and Holland. I wonder if
it doesn't do well in cold climates (like Canada?) My woad is under 4 ft.
of snow right now. I won't know if it survived the winter until April, when
the snow will melt and the ground thaw.

Unfortunately, Hurry's book doesn't mention how to actually dye with woad.
Chris
In Canada

---

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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----- Original Message -----

From: Robin & Chris Dalziel

To: woadgrowers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:13 PM

Subject: [woadgrowers] Getting woad to grow and Hurry's book

After reading your posts I think I should be very happy I even have woad
plants in the garden! Instead of complaining that I'm not getting any
colour.

My very small local library brought in a copy of Hurry's book "The Woad
Plant" (loaned from a university library) and I spent the evening reading
it. Very interesting, although mostly history of the industry in the UK and
Europe.

Some things I learned from the book that may improve my chances of getting
colour next summer. The plant needs to be well weeded. (I'm not great at
keeping my garden weeded.) It doesn't fair well when having to compete with
weeds. And it needs vast quantities of manure to grow well, as well as
additions of lime/calcium. It was the first crop to be grown intensively
and taught husbandmen how to cultivate for the best harvest. So next summer
it will get its required manure. I have lots of it due to the sheep and
goats in my barn.

The seed should be started early but the plant may be damaged by late
frosts. Oh my, we have frost all summer, perhaps I will need to move it to
a bench with good frost drainage and put it under a cold frame.

The leaves should be washed before using them for dye. (Oops, I think I
just shoved them into the pot)

The flowers from the top of the dye vat are used to make an artist
pigment--blue lake. This I want to try, too. If only I could get some
blue.

Hurry's book doesn't mention woad being grown in Scotland at all. But it
does mention it in England, France, Italy, Germany and Holland. I wonder if
it doesn't do well in cold climates (like Canada?) My woad is under 4 ft.
of snow right now. I won't know if it survived the winter until April, when
the snow will melt and the ground thaw.

Unfortunately, Hurry's book doesn't mention how to actually dye with woad.
Chris
In Canada

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.37/682 - Release Date: 12/02/2007 13:23

After reading your posts I think I should be very happy I even have woad
plants in the garden!  Instead of complaining that I'm not getting any
colour.

My very small local library brought in a copy of Hurry's book "The Woad
Plant" (loaned from a university library) and I spent the evening reading
it.  Very interesting, although mostly history of the industry in the UK and
Europe.

Some things I learned from the book that may improve my chances of getting
colour next summer.  The plant needs to be well weeded.  (I'm not great at
keeping my garden weeded.)  It doesn't fair well when having to compete with
weeds.  And it needs vast quantities of manure to grow well, as well as
additions of lime/calcium.  It was the first crop to be grown intensively
and taught husbandmen how to cultivate for the best harvest.  So next summer
it will get its required manure.  I have lots of it due to the sheep and
goats in my barn.

The seed should be started early but the plant may be damaged by late
frosts.  Oh my, we have frost all summer, perhaps I will need to move it to
a bench with good frost drainage and put it under a cold frame.

The leaves should be washed before using them for dye.  (Oops, I think I
just shoved them into the pot)

The flowers from the top of the dye vat are used to make an artist
pigment--blue lake.  This I want to try, too.  If only I could get some
blue.

Hurry's book doesn't mention woad being grown in Scotland at all.  But it
does mention it in England, France, Italy, Germany and Holland.  I wonder if
it doesn't do well in cold climates (like Canada?)  My woad is under 4 ft.
of snow right now.  I won't know if it survived the winter until April, when
the snow will melt and the ground thaw.

Unfortunately, Hurry's book doesn't mention how to actually dye with woad.
Chris
In Canada

Hi Ian. From what we can tell, it's easy to get woad to sprout but
tough to keep it going. I can get it to sprout in the ground, but
then something eats it.

I may try Chris's idea with the cinnamon and see if I can get them
going in protected pots.

Chris, you're nearly there on the leaf processing. I aerate using my
hand mixer, let it settle in a wine bottle and then let it dry on
the bottom of a big glass casserole. I scrape it off with a razor
blade. I haven't dyed with it yet - I gave my few tablespoons away
because I just have too many things on the go. (Over in soapwitches,
Rebecca posted the addy for plans for a diy cotton spinning wheel.
Sigh..... I don't dare.)

Michele





--- In woadgrowers@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Temple" <iantmp24@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi All
> Just wanted to say thankyou for the seeds, a lot of my friends
want
> plants from me, but they dont want to grow them from seed, so lets
> hope they all come up.
> Take care
> Ian
>

Hi All
Just wanted to say thankyou for the seeds, a lot of my friends want
plants from me, but they dont want to grow them from seed, so lets
hope they all come up.
Take care
Ian

I make soap, too.

I noticed that they are using oil made from woad seeds as one of the
oils in soapmaking (http://www.woad-inc.co.uk/).

But I think if you tried to use woad pigment powder for colouring you
would have a colour change during the saponificaton process.  I
haven't tried it but when I've tried using other natural vegetable
colours the colours either turned a yuky brown or faded during the
aging process.
Chris

I have the book Indigo from the public library and Balfour-Paul
mentions that (P. 102)
"Only recently, though, have scientists discovered that not only
must woad leaves be steeped for just ten minutes at 80C but the
liquid must also cool down rapidly."

I didnt do that last summer.  I steeped it like tea for about an
hour using about 90C water in a cold pot, so it would cool down when
it hit the leaves but probably stayed at around 80C for a good
hour.  Would that be why I didn't get much colour?  Does it really
matter how long to leave it in hot water?

I didn't take the leaves out of the water till the next morning.
Then I added lye and thioreadioxide and then poured it back and
forth for about 30 minutes to areate.  (These are the directions
in "A Dyer's Garden" by Rita Buchanan.)  As I mentioned I had blue
scum in the bottom of the pot but no colour on my wool.

I also thought maybe the strain of woad seed that I had would be
less potent than what they are using commercially.  Apparently there
are several different strains and some have more indigo pigment than
others.  I have ordered "Tewksbury" woad seed from one of the UK
sites, so maybe this year I will have more luck.
Chris
Joybilee farm
Greenwood, B.C.
Canada

http://fiberarts.ca

I've now had time to read the archives.  Some of you mentioned loosing
your seedlings last Spring.

I've used powdered cinnamon sprinkled on the surface of the pot to
inhibit damping off.  It has some anti fungal properties and is less
toxic than copper sulfate.  Its worked very well for me as long as I've
taken the time to wash the pots well and give it a light bleach rinsing,
before potting up.

Chris

--- In woadgrowers@yahoogroups.com, "Michele Jack"
<michele.jack@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris. How big are your woad plants getting?

I had some rosettes that were 35 - 40 cm across with 4-6 layers of
leaves.  But the plants got frost in the summer so I used them
sooner than I might have.  I had about a dozen plants to take leaves
from last year.

This year I plan to take my UK seed and pot them up in the house for
6 weeks before setting out, just like I would do to broccoli.  I'm
lucky because we don't have slugs here to contend with.  Maybe I
will get enough leaves to get some real blues happening in the dye
pot.

Are the colours that you do manage to get from woad a lighter blue
than what you might get from natural indigo?  Is it possible to get
the same deep colours from woad if you had enough leaves.

Also is there a difference in the colour that you can get from a
fermentation vat compared to a chemical vat?

I do have lots of questions.  I've been dyeing with natural indigo
from India for a year now and am really excited to actually be able
to grow some inidgo bearing plants myself.  Now if only I could get
some colour from my own plants.

TIA
Chris
Greenwood, B.C.
Canada

http://fiberarts.ca

Hi Chris. How big are your woad plants getting? We've had a mixture
of success and abject failure. I have one plant which became huge,
but it came from a potted seedling I bought at a nursery. Like some
of the others, I can't get my seedlings beyond a couple leaves.

You have a wonderful collection of hairy animals there. Do you
collect fibre from them all?

Michele












--- In woadgrowers@yahoogroups.com, "joybilee1" <joybilee1@...>
wrote:
>







> Hi, I'm the new lady from Canada.  I'm Chris and this will be my
> third or fourth year trying to grow woad.  The first year I only
got
> a pale greeny blue in the dye pot following Rita Buchanans
> directions.  Last year I didn't get any colour on the wool at
all.
> I thought maybe I didn't have enough leaves, but I read the
> directions on one of the UK sites (http://woad.weebly.com/) and
> realized that I precipitated the pigment and then poured it down
the
> drain with the dye water.  I did wonder what all that blue scum
was
> in the bottom of the dye pot.  I guess I'll know better this year.
>
> My daughter is doing a science fair project for school on dyeing
> with natural indigo so I'm am hoping this year to actually get the
> woad going in the garden again and to actually get some colour
from
> it.  I ordered some seed from the UK this week so I'm hoping to
get
> a more potent strain, too, so that I can give it a fair trial.
>
> I live in B.C. in a zone 3, with a 4 ft. snow cover, in the
> mountains. We have 140 acre farm where we raise sheep, angora and
> Saanan goats, angora rabbits and llamas and lots of heritage
poultry
> breeds.
>
> Thank you for allowing me to join this list.  I am hoping to learn
a
> lot and maybe I'll even be able to share from my limited
experience.
> Blessings,
> Chris
>
> Joybilee Farm
> Greenwood, B.C.
> Canada
>
> http://fiberarts.ca
>

Hi, I'm the new lady from Canada.  I'm Chris and this will be my
third or fourth year trying to grow woad.  The first year I only got
a pale greeny blue in the dye pot following Rita Buchanans
directions.  Last year I didn't get any colour on the wool at all.
I thought maybe I didn't have enough leaves, but I read the
directions on one of the UK sites (http://woad.weebly.com/) and
realized that I precipitated the pigment and then poured it down the
drain with the dye water.  I did wonder what all that blue scum was
in the bottom of the dye pot.  I guess I'll know better this year.

My daughter is doing a science fair project for school on dyeing
with natural indigo so I'm am hoping this year to actually get the
woad going in the garden again and to actually get some colour from
it.  I ordered some seed from the UK this week so I'm hoping to get
a more potent strain, too, so that I can give it a fair trial.

I live in B.C. in a zone 3, with a 4 ft. snow cover, in the
mountains. We have 140 acre farm where we raise sheep, angora and
Saanan goats, angora rabbits and llamas and lots of heritage poultry
breeds.

Thank you for allowing me to join this list.  I am hoping to learn a
lot and maybe I'll even be able to share from my limited experience.
Blessings,
Chris

Joybilee Farm
Greenwood, B.C.
Canada

http://fiberarts.ca

Hi Michele,

Thanks for the seeds, they arrived this morning.
Can't wait to get stuck in.

Thanks again

Maria

--- Michele Jack <michele.jack@...> wrote:

> Hi all. We have a new lady from Canada, so everyone
> wave and say
> what you're up to. Ian and Maria, I posted your
> seeds this morning.
> Was there anyone else wanted some? I have a bin
> liner full! Well one
> corner, at least.
>
> It looks like my three year old woad plant has
> finally called it
> quits. I'm going to put seed directly in the ground
> EARLY this year,
> before the slugs coem out of hibernation.
>
> Did anyone watch Waking the Dead a couple weeks ago?
> The episode
> about Irish travellers contained what purported to
> be info on woad.
> It showed a bunch of young men engaged in Celtic
> rituals after being
> covered in daubs of bright blue paint. The lady who
> made this paint
> said she makes it by putting powdered woad in
> vinegar.
>
> Thoughts, anyone?
>
> Michele
>
>
>
>




___________________________________________________________
All New Yahoo! Mail – Tired of unwanted email come-ons? Let our SpamGuard
protect you. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

Hi new lady from Canada! I'm from Canada too. Ontario, to narrow it down a
bit. Zone 5 to narrow it down even more. Big place and all...

This is my 3rd year with woad. Started with one plant, and tried to dye with
the leaves in it's first year.

It might have worked too, if I hadn't gotten the plant mixed up with the
weld (which is also a small rosette of leaves in it's first year). Somehow
weld just didn't take kindly to fermenting with urine. ;)

Funny, it's much easier to tell them apart in the second year of their
biannual life cycle. And they are now correctly labelled in the garden. :)

I'm hoping that it dropped millions of little seeds and they will sprout in
just the right abundance this year, and I'll finally get to dye with it this
summer.


Karen

----- Original Message -----

From: Michele Jack

To: woadgrowers@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 7:47 PM

Subject: [woadgrowers] Everyone wave and say hello

Hi all. We have a new lady from Canada, so everyone wave and say
what you're up to. Ian and Maria, I posted your seeds this morning.
Was there anyone else wanted some? I have a bin liner full! Well one
corner, at least.

It looks like my three year old woad plant has finally called it
quits. I'm going to put seed directly in the ground EARLY this year,
before the slugs coem out of hibernation.

Did anyone watch Waking the Dead a couple weeks ago? The episode
about Irish travellers contained what purported to be info on woad.
It showed a bunch of young men engaged in Celtic rituals after being
covered in daubs of bright blue paint. The lady who made this paint
said she makes it by putting powdered woad in vinegar.

Thoughts, anyone?

Michele

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
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Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.26/670 - Release Date: 05/02/2007 14:04

Hi all. We have a new lady from Canada, so everyone wave and say
what you're up to. Ian and Maria, I posted your seeds this morning.
Was there anyone else wanted some? I have a bin liner full! Well one
corner, at least.

It looks like my three year old woad plant has finally called it
quits. I'm going to put seed directly in the ground EARLY this year,
before the slugs coem out of hibernation.

Did anyone watch Waking the Dead a couple weeks ago? The episode
about Irish travellers contained what purported to be info on woad.
It showed a bunch of young men engaged in Celtic rituals after being
covered in daubs of bright blue paint. The lady who made this paint
said she makes it by putting powdered woad in vinegar.

Thoughts, anyone?

Michele

Caitilin - the very woman! Are you still in temporary quarters? I
have woad seeds for you. AND for Ian and Mary. I really am getting
there - I have the bags and all ready to go.

Michele


--- In woadgrowers@yahoogroups.com, Caitilin <just.caitilin@...>
wrote:
>
> *pouts*
>
> But its so much more fun to put on a show!
>
> Caitilin
> who loves her cape.
>
>
> On 1/24/07, Michele Jack <michele.jack@...> wrote:
> >
> >   Once I asked a witch how she harvested her mugwort. I felt it
> > certainly must involve silver bolines, phases of the moon and
long
> > capes. It turned out she just walks up the street with a plastic
> > carrier bag.
> >
> > Sigh.
> >
> > Michele
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> livejournal: http://wildchildcait.livejournal.com
>
> St Patrick drove the snakes out of Ireland. Caitilin drove them
back!
>

Once I asked a witch how she harvested her mugwort. I felt it
certainly must involve silver bolines, phases of the moon and long
capes. It turned out she just walks up the street with a plastic
carrier bag.

Sigh.

Michele

I have just picked up a French gardening magazine which has a lunar
calendar in it.  Have any others on this site had any experience of
this (it doesn't mean gardening at night, of course!).  I did read a
book some years ago which was pretty convincing on how
seeds/roots/leaves grow according to the pull of the moon, but I would
like to know of more recent experiences.
M.

> Just out of interest, I don;t suppose you'd care to share how you get
the
> pink colour from the spent leaves ...?
>

Assuming nothing else touched the leaves but pure water the first time
round ...Simmer/boil for up to an hour.  Strain.  Use on alum-mordanted
fleece i.e. simmer/boil for another hour.  Or so.  I.e. like
standard "natural" plant dyeing.

I usually put dyestuff in muslin and sometimes combine the two
operations.  But whatever I do I ALWAYS keep notes.

M.