email problem sorry


  Fearghus

Came through fine to me, Fearghus.

Christophe

> email problem sorry
>
>
>  Fearghus

Ok, official word on the war. It's the full weekend, it's at Coyote
Lake in Gilroy. Wulfstan asked me to be C-in-C and I agreed before
thinking. I can do it, except I can't take that Friday off (thanks to
the Friday I'm taking off for Crown).

Who's got Friday, April 11 free and can be in Gilroy that morning to
open gate?

Christophe, begging on bended knee <grin>

I haven't seen any replies on this.
This is a sorry I can't reply, but at least it's a reply. ...

Unfortunately I am not going to be able to show up that early to the
event -- if at all. That's my anniversary weekend.

I hope you find some one to cover for you Christophe.
--Eirik

-----Original Message-----
From: revchewie [mailto:chewie@...]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 9:04 AM
To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [West Constables] Mists-Cynagua war


Ok, official word on the war. It's the full weekend, it's at Coyote
Lake in Gilroy. Wulfstan asked me to be C-in-C and I agreed before
thinking. I can do it, except I can't take that Friday off (thanks to
the Friday I'm taking off for Crown).

Who's got Friday, April 11 free and can be in Gilroy that morning to
open gate?

Christophe, begging on bended knee <grin>


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I am sorry to say that I can not make that event due
to pryor engagement.
Y.I.S.
Michael Rodelli
--- revchewie <chewie@...> wrote:
> Ok, official word on the war. It's the full weekend,
> it's at Coyote
> Lake in Gilroy. Wulfstan asked me to be C-in-C and I
> agreed before
> thinking. I can do it, except I can't take that
> Friday off (thanks to
> the Friday I'm taking off for Crown).
>
> Who's got Friday, April 11 free and can be in Gilroy
> that morning to
> open gate?
>
> Christophe, begging on bended knee <grin>
>
>


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I had something disturbing reported to me, as regards Constabulary at
this last March Crown.  Appears there was a young girl who when
questioned about her age, simply "ducked out".  Later, she might have
been seen at the Kates campfire/party- where I was tlod no alcohol
was being served.  Allegedly she had what looked to be "drinks" in
her hands.  Some Constable came by the Kates, and ordered them to
close down in a loud & threatening way.

So- anyone know what really happened here, so I can squelch rumors?

Very simple.  The girl was apprehended.  She was 19 and had been given a
large bottle of rum and another drink (bottle) like a Seagrams mix thing.
The police were called and she and the evidence was turned over to them.
She was talked to, and at the request of the SCA she was not jailed (she was
not inebriated and was cooperative).  (Had she been inebriated or
beligerant, this could have gone differently.)

The Kates party was shut down.  It has been rumored that "they" did not
serve her, but the incident did happen at their fire, in their camp, and is
therefore their responsibility.  The entire incident has been reviewed with
the Seneschale - and the actions were deemed appropriate.  As far as
rudeness, there was probably a little on both sides - that is what happens
when you try to shut down parties.

It is unfortunate that rumors abound.  The situation was taken care of in a
very professional manner.  The constables who handled it did everything they
could to be fair.

Kate - who was there for part of this.




>From: "wulfy95113" <ladydove@...>
>Reply-To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
>To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [West Constables] March Crown
>Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:02:59 -0000
>
>I had something disturbing reported to me, as regards Constabulary at
>this last March Crown.  Appears there was a young girl who when
>questioned about her age, simply "ducked out".  Later, she might have
>been seen at the Kates campfire/party- where I was tlod no alcohol
>was being served.  Allegedly she had what looked to be "drinks" in
>her hands.  Some Constable came by the Kates, and ordered them to
>close down in a loud & threatening way.
>
>So- anyone know what really happened here, so I can squelch rumors?
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>wkconstabulary-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com or go to
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wkconstabulary
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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OH, and by the way.  Anyone who has any issues with what happened is
encouraged to contact the West Kingdom Constable, Alberic Wolf, who was also
the Constable in Charge for the Event.  Any complaints should be directed to
him at alberic_wolf@....

Kate>
>


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I just wanted to thank those who took over when I had to leave
suddenly this last Friday night.

For those who were wondering what happened, my grandmother, after a
long time dealing with constant pain, Friday told the doctors in the
nursing home to pull the IV that had been feeding her and that she
didn't want to continue taking the 30+ pills a day. She's had a long,
full life and she's still perfectly lucid, but she's tired and tired
of the pain and now she just wants to rest. Not knowing how long she'd
hang on without all the medications, the family converged on Salinas
this weekend to say goodbyes. She's still hanging in there, but
according to the doctors, she's currently on borrowed time (they said
2-3 days at the most, but that was, as of this writing, 3 days ago -
she's always been a tough woman :-).

Big thanks, as well, to all those who sent their condolences and good
wishes.

Christophe

Well, I don't have an issue per se, nor am I complaining, just wanted
some "rumor control".

  I am unclear about one aspect of this, however- why did the blame
fall upon the Kates?  I know we always make sure that anyone who
SERVES alcohol is responsible, but isn't it a bit much to have folks
check on anyone who just drops by the fire with a drink in their
hand?  What "incident" occured in their camp?  Her being apprehended,
or her being given the booze?  I had heard that she was at other
parties also, is this true?  I mean, if she was wandering from fire
to fire, and she was given the booze elsewhere, but we finally caught
up with her at the Kates- is that somehow their fault?

This seems like the right forum to discuss these kinds of issues.  It
is "just us" after all.

Christofe- my condolences.

Wulfy
--- In wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com, "Kateryn de Ver"
<katerynd@h...> wrote:
> Very simple.  The girl was apprehended.  She was 19 and had been
given a
> large bottle of rum and another drink (bottle) like a Seagrams mix
thing.
> The police were called and she and the evidence was turned over to
them.
> She was talked to, and at the request of the SCA she was not jailed
(she was
> not inebriated and was cooperative).  (Had she been inebriated or
> beligerant, this could have gone differently.)
>
> The Kates party was shut down.  It has been rumored that "they" did
not
> serve her, but the incident did happen at their fire, in their
camp, and is
> therefore their responsibility.  The entire incident has been
reviewed with
> the Seneschale - and the actions were deemed appropriate.

>Well, I don't have an issue per se, nor am I complaining, just wanted
>some "rumor control".
>
>  I am unclear about one aspect of this, however- why did the blame
>fall upon the Kates?  I know we always make sure that anyone who
>SERVES alcohol is responsible, but isn't it a bit much to have folks
>check on anyone who just drops by the fire with a drink in their
>hand?

It may or may not have been the Kates, but either way, it was being
distributed in their camp.

   What "incident" occured in their camp?

giving booze to a minor.


I had heard that she was at other
>parties also, is this true?

Not that we know of - if she had been at other parties - she would've been
tipsy at least and I didn't detect that.

I mean, if she was wandering from fire
>to fire, and she was given the booze elsewhere, but we finally caught
>up with her at the Kates- is that somehow their fault?

This statement really makes me mad - should we villify the child to cover
for the irresponsible adults!.......OK, I am really NOT going to go there!!!


>This seems like the right forum to discuss these kinds of issues.  It
>is "just us" after all.

It is the forum - but you make a LOT of assumptions for someone who
witnessed nothing!  I had no idea that you were such a rumor mongerer!

Yes, Kate is MAD!



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I know in my own encampment we have taken to carding
everyone upon entering camp.  We have a clear entrance
set up and guards posted.  It may seem draconian at
first, but people get used to it and most respect your
intentions.

Aros de Vert Trews
Cassandra Raven



--- wulfy95113 <ladydove@...> wrote:

<snip>

>
>  I am unclear about one aspect of this, however- why
> did the blame
> fall upon the Kates?  I know we always make sure
> that anyone who
> SERVES alcohol is responsible, but isn't it a bit
> much to have folks
> check on anyone who just drops by the fire with a
> drink in their
> hand?

<snip>


__________________________________________________
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Christophe;

You have our condolences as well - Kate went through this recently
with her Mother, it is a very difficult time.

I want to thank you for opening and setting up gate.  Your assistance
was greatly appreciated.

If there is anything of your stuff that is not returned to you,
please let me know and I will track it down.

Alberic

--- In wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com, "revchewie" <chewie@m...>
wrote:
> I just wanted to thank those who took over when I had to leave
> suddenly this last Friday night.
>
> For those who were wondering what happened, my grandmother, after a
> long time dealing with constant pain, Friday told the doctors in the
> nursing home to pull the IV that had been feeding her and that she
> didn't want to continue taking the 30+ pills a day. She's had a
long,
> full life and she's still perfectly lucid, but she's tired and tired
> of the pain and now she just wants to rest. Not knowing how long
she'd
> hang on without all the medications, the family converged on Salinas
> this weekend to say goodbyes. She's still hanging in there, but
> according to the doctors, she's currently on borrowed time (they
said
> 2-3 days at the most, but that was, as of this writing, 3 days ago -
> she's always been a tough woman :-).
>
> Big thanks, as well, to all those who sent their condolences and
good
> wishes.
>
> Christophe

--- In wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com, "wulfy95113" <ladydove@p...>
wrote:
> I had something disturbing reported to me, as regards Constabulary
at
> this last March Crown.  Appears there was a young girl who when
> questioned about her age, simply "ducked out".

This was a different incident.  Two different girls. The girl
that "ducked out" we were unable to locate.  She was blond, and 6'5"
If she is ever found at a future event, I would like to speak with
her.

   Later, she might have
> been seen at the Kates campfire/party- where I was tlod no alcohol
> was being served.  Allegedly she had what looked to be "drinks" in
> her hands.

She had bottles of alcohol, Bacardi Malibu Rum and a bottle of
Smirnoff Ice.

  Some Constable came by the Kates, and ordered them to
> close down in a loud & threatening way.

The constable did what he was told to do as per the Kingdom Constable
and the West Kingdom Seneschale.

>
> So- anyone know what really happened here, so I can squelch rumors?

The best way to squelch rumors is to refuse to pass them and refer
the people making these statements directly to me. I was there, I was
in charge and I will answer any questions.

Alberic
Kingdom Constable

Dear Al,Kat and all others involved....

I have read what was posted, and although I was not at the event, I would like
to make a statement.  When this subject of minors drinking was last posted as
new, or better yet, revised law, by Al, the topic was brought up as to what to
do with the encampment where the minor was found.  Now a precedent has been set.
We should all keep in mind that it is not always the encampments fault as to the
minor drinking.  Unless someone can find specific blame on one person who did
the serving, you can't automatically threaten to throw out the entire
encampment.  If you do, then you will be considered a hipocrit and will loose
the respect of the populace.  Being as the only real power we have is what is
given to us out of respect by the populace......... we will have no authority.

Yours in Service,
Lord Rowan Buchanan
--
__________________________________________________________
Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
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--- In wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com, "wulfy95113" <ladydove@p...>
wrote:
> Well, I don't have an issue per se, nor am I complaining, just
wanted
> some "rumor control".
>
>  I am unclear about one aspect of this, however- why did the blame
> fall upon the Kates?  I know we always make sure that anyone who
> SERVES alcohol is responsible, but isn't it a bit much to have
folks
> check on anyone who just drops by the fire with a drink in their
> hand?

The drinks were given to this girl in the Kates camp.  We do not know
if it was one of the Kates or a guest at their party. Either way, the
Kates were aware that alcohol was being distributed and as it is
their party, it is their responsibility.


  What "incident" occured in their camp?  Her being apprehended,
> or her being given the booze?

BOTH

  I had heard that she was at other
> parties also, is this true?  I mean, if she was wandering from fire
> to fire, and she was given the booze elsewhere, but we finally
caught
> up with her at the Kates- is that somehow their fault?

She may have attended other parties, but the alcohol was given to her
at the Kates.  In this instance, both the Kates and the girl share
fault.

>
> This seems like the right forum to discuss these kinds of issues.
It
> is "just us" after all.

This is a good forum for discussion of the issues.  Evaluation of
what worked and what didn't.  This is NOT a good forum for
challenging other constables, or bashing the actions of other
constables.  If there are concerns regarding a constable or their
actions, I would prefer to be contacted privately by the parties
making the allegation.  Unfounded allegations by persons not present
serve no function but to create hostility.

I was dealing with another incident at the time the party was shut
down - However, the constable who shut the party down, on my orders,
has been a constable for a long time and knows what he is doing.  We
have discussed this issue and debriefed.

Alberic
Kingdom Constable

Thank you Rowan,  the reason we just shut the party down, is because
we could not prove it was a member of the Kates.  If we could have
proved it was a member of the Kates, we would have made the camp
leave site.  As was, we believe it was a guest.  The party was over,
and I hope the Kates have learned a lesson in responsibility.

Alberic

--- In wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com, "paul morris" <pmorris@m...>
wrote:
> Dear Al,Kat and all others involved....
>
> I have read what was posted, and although I was not at the event, I
would like to make a statement.  When this subject of minors drinking
was last posted as new, or better yet, revised law, by Al, the topic
was brought up as to what to do with the encampment where the minor
was found.  Now a precedent has been set.  We should all keep in mind
that it is not always the encampments fault as to the minor
drinking.  Unless someone can find specific blame on one person who
did the serving, you can't automatically threaten to throw out the
entire encampment.  If you do, then you will be considered a hipocrit
and will loose the respect of the populace.  Being as the only real
power we have is what is given to us out of respect by the
populace......... we will have no authority.
>
> Yours in Service,
> Lord Rowan Buchanan
> --
> __________________________________________________________
> Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
> http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

Thank you.  I respect your decision and the responsibility of your
ship.  I appreciate the support.

Alberic

--- In wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com, Aros of the green pants
<arosofthegreenpants@y...> wrote:
> I know in my own encampment we have taken to carding
> everyone upon entering camp.  We have a clear entrance
> set up and guards posted.  It may seem draconian at
> first, but people get used to it and most respect your
> intentions.
>
> Aros de Vert Trews
> Cassandra Raven
>
>
>
> --- wulfy95113 <ladydove@p...> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >
> >  I am unclear about one aspect of this, however- why
> > did the blame
> > fall upon the Kates?  I know we always make sure
> > that anyone who
> > SERVES alcohol is responsible, but isn't it a bit
> > much to have folks
> > check on anyone who just drops by the fire with a
> > drink in their
> > hand?
>
> <snip>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your
desktop!
> http://platinum.yahoo.com

Well said Al
A question on another subject, do you know who will be the CIC at the Dangel Tor
event this next weekend?
----- Original Message -----
From: "alberic_wolf"
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 01:29:02 -0000
To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [West Constables] March Crown

Thank you Rowan,  the reason we just shut the party down, is because
we could not prove it was a member of the Kates.  If we could have
proved it was a member of the Kates, we would have made the camp
leave site.  As was, we believe it was a guest.  The party was over,
and I hope the Kates have learned a lesson in responsibility.

Alberic

--- In wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com, "paul morris"
wrote:
> Dear Al,Kat and all others involved....
>
> I have read what was posted, and although I was not at the event, I
would like to make a statement.  When this subject of minors drinking
was last posted as new, or better yet, revised law, by Al, the topic
was brought up as to what to do with the encampment where the minor
was found.  Now a precedent has been set.  We should all keep in mind
that it is not always the encampments fault as to the minor
drinking.  Unless someone can find specific blame on one person who
did the serving, you can't automatically threaten to throw out the
entire encampment.  If you do, then you will be considered a hipocrit
and will loose the respect of the populace.  Being as the only real
power we have is what is given to us out of respect by the
populace......... we will have no authority.
>
> Yours in Service,
> Lord Rowan Buchanan
> --
> __________________________________________________________
> Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
> http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup


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__________________________________________________________
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Thanks!  Capt. Lacey will be CiC






>From: "paul morris" <pmorris@...>
>Reply-To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
>To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [West Constables] March Crown
>Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:33:06 -0500
>
>Well said Al
>A question on another subject, do you know who will be the CIC at the
>Dangel Tor event this next weekend?
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "alberic_wolf"
>Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 01:29:02 -0000
>To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [West Constables] March Crown
>
>Thank you Rowan,  the reason we just shut the party down, is because
>we could not prove it was a member of the Kates.  If we could have
>proved it was a member of the Kates, we would have made the camp
>leave site.  As was, we believe it was a guest.  The party was over,
>and I hope the Kates have learned a lesson in responsibility.
>
>Alberic
>
>--- In wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com, "paul morris"
>wrote:
> > Dear Al,Kat and all others involved....
> >
> > I have read what was posted, and although I was not at the event, I
>would like to make a statement.  When this subject of minors drinking
>was last posted as new, or better yet, revised law, by Al, the topic
>was brought up as to what to do with the encampment where the minor
>was found.  Now a precedent has been set.  We should all keep in mind
>that it is not always the encampments fault as to the minor
>drinking.  Unless someone can find specific blame on one person who
>did the serving, you can't automatically threaten to throw out the
>entire encampment.  If you do, then you will be considered a hipocrit
>and will loose the respect of the populace.  Being as the only real
>power we have is what is given to us out of respect by the
>populace......... we will have no authority.
> >
> > Yours in Service,
> > Lord Rowan Buchanan
> > --
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
> > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
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Hey......would you like to CiC an event - I'm looking for some!!!!!

heh...heh....heh...

Al






>From: "paul morris" <pmorris@...>
>Reply-To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
>To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [West Constables] March Crown
>Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:33:06 -0500
>
>Well said Al
>A question on another subject, do you know who will be the CIC at the
>Dangel Tor event this next weekend?
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "alberic_wolf"
>Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 01:29:02 -0000
>To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [West Constables] March Crown
>
>Thank you Rowan,  the reason we just shut the party down, is because
>we could not prove it was a member of the Kates.  If we could have
>proved it was a member of the Kates, we would have made the camp
>leave site.  As was, we believe it was a guest.  The party was over,
>and I hope the Kates have learned a lesson in responsibility.
>
>Alberic
>
>--- In wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com, "paul morris"
>wrote:
> > Dear Al,Kat and all others involved....
> >
> > I have read what was posted, and although I was not at the event, I
>would like to make a statement.  When this subject of minors drinking
>was last posted as new, or better yet, revised law, by Al, the topic
>was brought up as to what to do with the encampment where the minor
>was found.  Now a precedent has been set.  We should all keep in mind
>that it is not always the encampments fault as to the minor
>drinking.  Unless someone can find specific blame on one person who
>did the serving, you can't automatically threaten to throw out the
>entire encampment.  If you do, then you will be considered a hipocrit
>and will loose the respect of the populace.  Being as the only real
>power we have is what is given to us out of respect by the
>populace......... we will have no authority.
> >
> > Yours in Service,
> > Lord Rowan Buchanan
> > --
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
> > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Al and Kat
P.S. I also want to give my warm wishes and hopes for your son and where I
believe he is right now.
Rowan
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Thank you for the well wishes.  We are very lucky - our son is training in
So. Cal right now, then off to Louisiana for more training.  He won't see
this war unless it goes on for a long time.  The weapon he is training with
is not yet approved for use in combat - but because he is trained in it's
use, he will not go over unless it is approved....we are keeping our fingers
crossed.

Kate






>From: "paul morris" <pmorris@...>
>Reply-To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
>To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [West Constables] March Crown
>Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:37:03 -0500
>
>Al and Kat
>P.S. I also want to give my warm wishes and hopes for your son and where I
>believe he is right now.
>Rowan
>--
>__________________________________________________________
>Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
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>


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The major problem I have with constabulary duties right now, concern some spinal
problems I am having.  They stem from the accident I had at work 2 yrs ago.  I
can attest to the fact that falling head first into a steel I beam is not a good
or healthy idea.
Rowan :>
----- Original Message -----
From: "ALBERIC WOLF" <alberic_wolf@...>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 01:36:21 +0000
To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [West Constables] March Crown

> Hey......would you like to CiC an event - I'm looking for some!!!!!
>
> heh...heh....heh...
>
> Al
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "paul morris" <pmorris@...>
> >Reply-To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
> >To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [West Constables] March Crown
> >Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:33:06 -0500
> >
> >Well said Al
> >A question on another subject, do you know who will be the CIC at the
> >Dangel Tor event this next weekend?
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "alberic_wolf"
> >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 01:29:02 -0000
> >To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [West Constables] March Crown
> >
> >Thank you Rowan,  the reason we just shut the party down, is because
> >we could not prove it was a member of the Kates.  If we could have
> >proved it was a member of the Kates, we would have made the camp
> >leave site.  As was, we believe it was a guest.  The party was over,
> >and I hope the Kates have learned a lesson in responsibility.
> >
> >Alberic
> >
> >--- In wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com, "paul morris"
> >wrote:
> > > Dear Al,Kat and all others involved....
> > >
> > > I have read what was posted, and although I was not at the event, I
> >would like to make a statement.  When this subject of minors drinking
> >was last posted as new, or better yet, revised law, by Al, the topic
> >was brought up as to what to do with the encampment where the minor
> >was found.  Now a precedent has been set.  We should all keep in mind
> >that it is not always the encampments fault as to the minor
> >drinking.  Unless someone can find specific blame on one person who
> >did the serving, you can't automatically threaten to throw out the
> >entire encampment.  If you do, then you will be considered a hipocrit
> >and will loose the respect of the populace.  Being as the only real
> >power we have is what is given to us out of respect by the
> >populace......... we will have no authority.
> > >
> > > Yours in Service,
> > > Lord Rowan Buchanan
> > > --
> > > __________________________________________________________
> > > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
> > > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
> >
> >
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> >
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We will all thank the Gods for the little favors!!!:)
Rowan
----- Original Message -----
From: "ALBERIC WOLF"
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 01:40:57 +0000
To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [West Constables] March Crown

Thank you for the well wishes.  We are very lucky - our son is training in
So. Cal right now, then off to Louisiana for more training.  He won't see
this war unless it goes on for a long time.  The weapon he is training with
is not yet approved for use in combat - but because he is trained in it's
use, he will not go over unless it is approved....we are keeping our fingers
crossed.

Kate






>From: "paul morris"
>Reply-To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
>To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [West Constables] March Crown
>Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:37:03 -0500
>
>Al and Kat
>P.S. I also want to give my warm wishes and hopes for your son and where I
>believe he is right now.
>Rowan
>--
>__________________________________________________________
>Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
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>


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Let me know when you are feeling better.  You'd do a good job.

Al






>From: "paul morris" <pmorris@...>
>Reply-To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
>To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [West Constables] March Crown
>Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:41:08 -0500
>
>The major problem I have with constabulary duties right now, concern some
>spinal problems I am having.  They stem from the accident I had at work 2
>yrs ago.  I can attest to the fact that falling head first into a steel I
>beam is not a good or healthy idea.
>Rowan :>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "ALBERIC WOLF" <alberic_wolf@...>
>Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 01:36:21 +0000
>To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [West Constables] March Crown
>
> > Hey......would you like to CiC an event - I'm looking for some!!!!!
> >
> > heh...heh....heh...
> >
> > Al
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "paul morris" <pmorris@...>
> > >Reply-To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [West Constables] March Crown
> > >Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 20:33:06 -0500
> > >
> > >Well said Al
> > >A question on another subject, do you know who will be the CIC at the
> > >Dangel Tor event this next weekend?
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "alberic_wolf"
> > >Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 01:29:02 -0000
> > >To: wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [West Constables] March Crown
> > >
> > >Thank you Rowan,  the reason we just shut the party down, is because
> > >we could not prove it was a member of the Kates.  If we could have
> > >proved it was a member of the Kates, we would have made the camp
> > >leave site.  As was, we believe it was a guest.  The party was over,
> > >and I hope the Kates have learned a lesson in responsibility.
> > >
> > >Alberic
> > >
> > >--- In wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com, "paul morris"
> > >wrote:
> > > > Dear Al,Kat and all others involved....
> > > >
> > > > I have read what was posted, and although I was not at the event, I
> > >would like to make a statement.  When this subject of minors drinking
> > >was last posted as new, or better yet, revised law, by Al, the topic
> > >was brought up as to what to do with the encampment where the minor
> > >was found.  Now a precedent has been set.  We should all keep in mind
> > >that it is not always the encampments fault as to the minor
> > >drinking.  Unless someone can find specific blame on one person who
> > >did the serving, you can't automatically threaten to throw out the
> > >entire encampment.  If you do, then you will be considered a hipocrit
> > >and will loose the respect of the populace.  Being as the only real
> > >power we have is what is given to us out of respect by the
> > >populace......... we will have no authority.
> > > >
> > > > Yours in Service,
> > > > Lord Rowan Buchanan
> > > > --
> > > > __________________________________________________________
> > > > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
> > > > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
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> > >
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> > >ADVERTISEMENT
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This *IS* the West Constulary site, right?  Where we discuss
issues of interest to Constables? Where us Constables can
talk freely about these issues. Which this is, being the
first time the new alcohol polciy has been vetted.

My question was "did she get the alcohol in their camp"?  As
opposed to "did we just finally find her there"?  If you see
the distinction.

Nor are we "villifying a CHILD"- as you said here- she was
19, thus an adult.  She can vote, she can go to prison.  She
is thus responsible for her own actions. If she had been
under 18, ie a child or a minor, then yes, that's
different.  But being over 18, she is legaly held to be
responsible.  Any adult who gives booze to a MINOR is
responsible, not the minor (altho the parents have some
responsibilty, of course).

My question remains- did the kates give her alcohol?  Did
any member of the kates give her alcohol? Did she get the
booze there, or elsewhere?  Are we going to close down a
party where a minor was drinking?  Where he got booze even
from a private person?  We all know that folks have little
control about folks who walk into their camp, and even what
they do, especially if the party is large and the problem is
at the outskirts.

And, I again point out that the person who complained to me
was most concerned about the rudeness of the Constable who
was "yelling threats" (their words, not mine) at the kates.
I may not have witnessed it myself, but that's why I am
asking, and the person who asked me is not some naif newbie
by any means.  I was asked officially to inquire, and I am
doing so, in the proper forum.

Note that the event was in my Principality also, so I have
every right to inquire. It most definately *is* my
business.  This is following the proper chain of command.

I would also like the Constable who was responsible to
contact me, off list.

Wulfstan- Chief Constable of the Mist

Kateryn de Ver wrote:

>  >Well, I don't have an issue per se, nor am I
> complaining, just wanted
> >some "rumor control".
> >
> >  I am unclear about one aspect of this, however- why did
> the blame
> >fall upon the Kates?  I know we always make sure that
> anyone who
> >SERVES alcohol is responsible, but isn't it a bit much to
> have folks
> >check on anyone who just drops by the fire with a drink
> in their
> >hand?
>
> It may or may not have been the Kates, but either way, it
> was being
> distributed in their camp.
>
>   What "incident" occured in their camp?
>
> giving booze to a minor.
>
>
> I had heard that she was at other
> >parties also, is this true?
>
> Not that we know of - if she had been at other parties -
> she would've been
> tipsy at least and I didn't detect that.
>
> I mean, if she was wandering from fire
> >to fire, and she was given the booze elsewhere, but we
> finally caught
> >up with her at the Kates- is that somehow their fault?
>
> This statement really makes me mad - should we villify the
> child to cover
> for the irresponsible adults!.......OK, I am really NOT
> going to go there!!!
>
>
> >This seems like the right forum to discuss these kinds of
> issues.  It
> >is "just us" after all.
>
> It is the forum - but you make a LOT of assumptions for
> someone who
> witnessed nothing!  I had no idea that you were such a
> rumor mongerer!
>
> Yes, Kate is MAD!
>
>
>
> _
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>
>
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> of Service.

Let's go over this again.  Someone, we have no idea who-
gave alcohol to a 19yo adult lady at an event- and she was
found at the Kates.  Right?  Since we don't know *who*, how
are we sure "*where* and *when*?  Now, I trust that she
hadn't been drinking for a while before, but if we don't
know "who", then we also can't be sure of where, unless I am
missing something. Maybe it was just outside the camp.
Maybe between two parties.  Maybe inside someones tent.
What did she say?  Were there witnesses?  I still don't
understand how it was automatically the kates
"responsibility".
Wulfy

alberic_wolf wrote:

>  Thank you Rowan,  the reason we just shut the party down,
> is because
> we could not prove it was a member of the Kates.  If we
> could have
> proved it was a member of the Kates, we would have made
> the camp
> leave site.  As was, we believe it was a guest.  The party
> was over,
> and I hope the Kates have learned a lesson in
> responsibility.
>
> Alberic
>
> --- In wkconstabulary@yahoogroups.com, "paul morris"
> <pmorris@m...>
> wrote:
> > Dear Al,Kat and all others involved....
> >
> > I have read what was posted, and although I was not at
> the event, I
> would like to make a statement.  When this subject of
> minors drinking
> was last posted as new, or better yet, revised law, by Al,
> the topic
> was brought up as to what to do with the encampment where
> the minor
> was found.  Now a precedent has been set.  We should all
> keep in mind
> that it is not always the encampments fault as to the
> minor
> drinking.  Unless someone can find specific blame on one
> person who
> did the serving, you can't automatically threaten to throw
> out the
> entire encampment.  If you do, then you will be considered
> a hipocrit
> and will loose the respect of the populace.  Being as the
> only real
> power we have is what is given to us out of respect by the
>
> populace......... we will have no authority.
> >
> > Yours in Service,
> > Lord Rowan Buchanan
> > --
> >
> __________________________________________________________
>
> > Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at
> Mail.com
> > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
>
>
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wkconstabulary
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.

>This *IS* the West Constulary site, right?  Where we discuss
>issues of interest to Constables? Where us Constables can
>talk freely about these issues. Which this is, being the
>first time the new alcohol polciy has been vetted.

We can talk constructively about these issues....however, It appears that
you are trying to protect the Kates without believing the words of the
constables who dealt with the situation.  This is not constructive.

>
>My question was "did she get the alcohol in their camp"?  As
>opposed to "did we just finally find her there"?  If you see
>the distinction.

Of course, I get the distinction:  THE ALCOHOL WAS PLACED IN HER HAND WHILE
SHE WAS INSIDE THE KATE'S CAMP!  Do you understand the distinction?

>
>Nor are we "villifying a CHILD"- as you said here- she was
>19, thus an adult.  She can vote, she can go to prison.  She
>is thus responsible for her own actions.

What you don't understand is that the adults at the party are also
responsible for their actions.  If a bunch of people go to your house and
have a party and share booze with people under 21....guess what...in the
mundane world YOU could go to jail as well as the person who actually
physically gave the booze to the person.

If she had been
>under 18, ie a child or a minor, then yes, that's
>different.  But being over 18, she is legaly held to be
>responsible.  Any adult who gives booze to a MINOR is
>responsible, not the minor (altho the parents have some
>responsibilty, of course).

Any adult who gives alcohol to a person under 21 is responsible as well.
Matter of fact, the SCA can be liable should that person be injured or
killed because of the alcohol consumption of a person under 21.


>
>My question remains- did the kates give her alcohol?  Did
>any member of the kates give her alcohol? Did she get the
>booze there, or elsewhere?

See above.

Are we going to close down a
>party where a minor was drinking?

EVERY TIME! AND the police will be called - persons who gave the alcohol, if
identified will also be given to the mundane authorties.

   Where he got booze even
>from a private person?

If that person was at the party, yes!  If he walks in with it from somewhere
else, no.

We all know that folks have little
>control about folks who walk into their camp, and even what
>they do, especially if the party is large and the problem is
>at the outskirts.

If you can't handle a large party, then you shouldn't have one.  Your camp
is your responsibility!

>
>And, I again point out that the person who complained to me
>was most concerned about the rudeness of the Constable who
>was "yelling threats" (their words, not mine) at the kates.

At this time, since you refuse to tell the KINGDOM CONSTABLE the nature
(specific) of this complaint, or put him in touch with the person making the
allegation, any corrective action cannot happen!  This is NOT your situation
to deal with.  This situation belongs to the Kingdom Constable and the
constables at the event.

I refuse to put one of my constables in a position of having to defend
himself from you.  I will gladly talk to the person, and the constable to
determine what happened and how it can be remedied in the future.  At that
time I will post useful and constructive information to all the constables
to avoid problems in the future.


>I may not have witnessed it myself, but that's why I am
>asking, and the person who asked me is not some naif newbie
>by any means.  I was asked officially to inquire, and I am
>doing so, in the proper forum.

The proper forum would have been to come to me directly with the complaint
and let me handle this.  Allegations and arguements solve nothing.  Why is
this person coming to you in the first place?  As you said, you were not
there and know nothing of what happened.
>
>Note that the event was in my Principality also, so I have
>every right to inquire.

No, you dont - this was a KINGDOM event.  I was there.  I was CIC.  I am the
proper authority in this instance.  I would deal with the situation and
inform you when the time came of all the particulars in a way that would be
constructive instead of arguementative.

It most definately *is* my
>business.  This is following the proper chain of command.

No it's not because the higher chain of command was there.
>
>I would also like the Constable who was responsible to
>contact me, off list.

I DO NOT SACRIFICE MY CONSTABLES SO THAT SOMEONE WHO KNOWS NOTHING OF THE
SITUATION CAN RAKE THEM OVER THE COALS!
>
>Wulfstan- Chief Constable of the Mist
>Alberic Wolf - The West Kingdom Constable

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Your wording & yelling is uncalled for.  I have never 'raked
anyone over the caols", nor would they contacting me, so
that I can find out directly from them what happened be
"sacrificing them". Nor would they have to 'defend
themself".  I just want the facts from the only person who
can give them.

You tone is unchivalrous.
Wulfstan

ALBERIC WOLF wrote:

>  >This *IS* the West Constulary site, right?  Where we
> discuss
> >issues of interest to Constables? Where us Constables can
>
> >talk freely about these issues. Which this is, being the
> >first time the new alcohol polciy has been vetted.
>
> We can talk constructively about these issues....however,
> It appears that
> you are trying to protect the Kates without believing the
> words of the
> constables who dealt with the situation.  This is not
> constructive.
>
> >
> >My question was "did she get the alcohol in their camp"?
> As
> >opposed to "did we just finally find her there"?  If you
> see
> >the distinction.
>
> Of course, I get the distinction:  THE ALCOHOL WAS PLACED
> IN HER HAND WHILE
> SHE WAS INSIDE THE KATE'S CAMP!  Do you understand the
> distinction?
>
> >
> >Nor are we "villifying a CHILD"- as you said here- she
> was
> >19, thus an adult.  She can vote, she can go to prison.
> She
> >is thus responsible for her own actions.
>
> What you don't understand is that the adults at the party
> are also
> responsible for their actions.  If a bunch of people go to
> your house and
> have a party and share booze with people under 21....guess
> what...in the
> mundane world YOU could go to jail as well as the person
> who actually
> physically gave the booze to the person.
>
> If she had been
> >under 18, ie a child or a minor, then yes, that's
> >different.  But being over 18, she is legaly held to be
> >responsible.  Any adult who gives booze to a MINOR is
> >responsible, not the minor (altho the parents have some
> >responsibilty, of course).
>
> Any adult who gives alcohol to a person under 21 is
> responsible as well.
> Matter of fact, the SCA can be liable should that person
> be injured or
> killed because of the alcohol consumption of a person
> under 21.
>
>
> >
> >My question remains- did the kates give her alcohol?  Did
>
> >any member of the kates give her alcohol? Did she get the
>
> >booze there, or elsewhere?
>
> See above.
>
> Are we going to close down a
> >party where a minor was drinking?
>
> EVERY TIME! AND the police will be called - persons who
> gave the alcohol, if
> identified will also be given to the mundane authorties.
>
>   Where he got booze even
> >from a private person?
>
> If that person was at the party, yes!  If he walks in with
> it from somewhere
> else, no.
>
> We all know that folks have little
> >control about folks who walk into their camp, and even
> what
> >they do, especially if the party is large and the problem
> is
> >at the outskirts.
>
> If you can't handle a large party, then you shouldn't have
> one.  Your camp
> is your responsibility!
>
> >
> >And, I again point out that the person who complained to
> me
> >was most concerned about the rudeness of the Constable
> who
> >was "yelling threats" (their words, not mine) at the
> kates.
>
> At this time, since you refuse to tell the KINGDOM
> CONSTABLE the nature
> (specific) of this complaint, or put him in touch with the
> person making the
> allegation, any corrective action cannot happen!  This is
> NOT your situation
> to deal with.  This situation belongs to the Kingdom
> Constable and the
> constables at the event.
>
> I refuse to put one of my constables in a position of
> having to defend
> himself from you.  I will gladly talk to the person, and
> the constable to
> determine what happened and how it can be remedied in the
> future.  At that
> time I will post useful and constructive information to
> all the constables
> to avoid problems in the future.
>
>
> >I may not have witnessed it myself, but that's why I am
> >asking, and the person who asked me is not some naif
> newbie
> >by any means.  I was asked officially to inquire, and I
> am
> >doing so, in the proper forum.
>
> The proper forum would have been to come to me directly
> with the complaint
> and let me handle this.  Allegations and arguements solve
> nothing.  Why is
> this person coming to you in the first place?  As you
> said, you were not
> there and know nothing of what happened.
> >
> >Note that the event was in my Principality also, so I
> have
> >every right to inquire.
>
> No, you dont - this was a KINGDOM event.  I was there.  I
> was CIC.  I am the
> proper authority in this instance.  I would deal with the
> situation and
> inform you when the time came of all the particulars in a
> way that would be
> constructive instead of arguementative.
>
> It most definately *is* my
> >business.  This is following the proper chain of command.
>
> No it's not because the higher chain of command was there.
>
> >
> >I would also like the Constable who was responsible to
> >contact me, off list.
>
> I DO NOT SACRIFICE MY CONSTABLES SO THAT SOMEONE WHO KNOWS
> NOTHING OF THE
> SITUATION CAN RAKE THEM OVER THE COALS!
> >
> >Wulfstan- Chief Constable of the Mist
> >Alberic Wolf - The West Kingdom Constable
>
>
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