http://www.wifeboat.com/

A WifeBoat is a place of safety and direction for wives who've been
through rough seas in a relationship. It's a place of shelter and
safety when the ship of your life has been hit by a torpedo and you
feel like you're sinking fast. A crises in a marriage – especially if
the crises includes infidelity – leaves a wife scared, enraged,
bewildered, and sometimes ready to jump ship! That's where this blog
comes in. I wanted to create a safe place for wives who are suffering
the pain of betrayal and need to vent, heal, and connect with other
women who understand.

For 21 years my husband has been ministering to Christian men who've
gotten caught up in the use of p*orn or who've committed adultery.
I'm glad he's doing that. But for every husband who's done these
things, there's a heartbroken wife who needs help too. I've heard
from those wives, and over and over the same questions come up: What
should I do? Who can I talk to who really understands? What are my
options? What can I expect?

I'm ready to explore those questions with you, and together, I hope
we can have an online sanctuary for Christian women who are willing
to hurt, huddle and grow together.

So here's a cup of coffee and a warm blanket.  I'm so glad you're
here, and I look forward to leaning in and growing with you. Let's
start rowing to our destination: wholeness.

  -Renee Dallas "wife of ex gay" Joe Dallas

http://www.theformers.com/

Welcome to The Formers, a place of fellowship for those who have
found healing from same-sex attraction -- or are on that journey --
and their supporters. We want this to be a haven where you will find
encouragement and where we can share thoughts, testimonies and
concerns. As iron sharpens iron, let us strengthen and edify one
another as we face the day-to-day challenges of living in a world
that is growing increasingly hostile to those who stand on the truth
of God's Word, which says that homosexual acts are sinful.

We also welcome pastors, ministry leaders and all who want to know
more about the complexities of same-sex attraction and how best to
minister to those in their midst who are struggling.


Why "the formers"?

The name actually comes from a tongue-in-cheek reference by a gay
activist. We are like those who left their sinful lifestyles behind --
  and that included homosexuality -- in the early Corinthian church.
The Apostle Paul wrote to those Christians, " ... and such were some
of you ..." in reference to their former dalliances with
homosexuality and other sins. We believe it is necessary to draw a
distinction between homosexual orientation, or a predisposition
toward being tempted by same-sex attraction, and a life marked by
giving in to those temptations or accepting them as normal. Only the
latter is sinful. Every man and woman is subject to temptations of
every sort, but God has made a way of escape for us (see 1 Cor.
10:13). It is only when we choose to act on those lustful desires or
mentally obsess over them that we become guilty of sin.

Homosexuality is a most complex thing. It's doubtful that anyone
really has a handle on it. We believe it is a form of brokenness that
has its roots in early development, but is also influenced by
individual temperament, the culture and each person's coping skills.
It is a byproduct of our fallen, sinful state, most of all. Even if
science one day finds a genetic predisposition to same-sex
attraction, we don't believe gays and lesbians are designed that way
nor do we think they are necessarily made by poor parenting. How a
parent chooses to respond to a son's or daughter's declaration of a
homosexual identity is certainly important. We can either leave the
door to redemption open or slam it shut.

The door is always open, from Jesus Christ's perspective.
Being "formers," we have empathy for those still struggling or caught
up in this life of brokenness. We do not have words of hate or
discouragement for them.

Dear distinguished American Psychological Association member:

We are Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays & Gays (PFOX), a non-profit
organization supporting families and the ex-gay community. We write
to you because of your decision to allow the Committee on Lesbian,
Gay and Bisexual Concerns to staff the new task force on therapeutic
responses to sexual orientation.

Each year, thousands of men and women with unwanted same-sex
attractions make the personal decision to leave homosexuality. Their
decision is one only they can make. However, there are others who
refuse to respect that decision, and endeavor to attack the ex-gay
community. Media dealing with tolerance and hate issues generally
fail to discuss the discrimination faced by ex-gays and their
supporters. Consequently, you may be unaware of the widespread
intolerance practiced against homosexuals who choose to leave
homosexuality:

* The Gay, Lesbian and Straight Educational Network (GLSEN) spent
thousands of dollars distributing a school booklet accusing ex-gays
of "harassment" because ex-gays want the same access to schools that
gay affirming groups like GLSEN currently enjoy. GLSEN's opposition
to sharing school access with ex-gay representatives and allowing ex-
gay resources to be made available to schools demonstrates their own
disregard for diversity.

* The Human Rights Campaign (HRC) demanded that a contributor
reconsider her sizeable donation to a children's school merely
because it had indirect ties to an ex-gay ministry.

* After receiving complaints from gay activists, the Michigan State
Medical Society abruptly revoked its grant of continuing education
credits for an ex-gay conference sponsored by the Catholic Medical
Association.

* After receiving "threats, insults and brutal letters" for running
an advertisement for an ex-gay book, Psychology Today Editor Bob
Epstein acknowledged the "dark, intolerant, abusive side of the gay
community."

* In his inaugural address, the Parents, Families and Friends of
Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG) national President stated that the lives of
ex-gays served to "terrorize" gays and "deny them civil rights."

* Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays & Gays (PFOX) filed a sexual
orientation discrimination complaint against the National Education
Association (NEA) for prohibiting ex-gays from exhibiting at NEA
conventions. Although the NEA has condemned the Boy Scouts for
excluding gays as scout leaders and urges public schools to refuse
use of their facilities for Boy Scout meetings, it consistently
discriminates against former gays. The NEA claims it can legally
exclude ex-gays from its facilities because it is a private
organization. Ironically, this is one of the same arguments used by
the Boy Scouts in its successful Supreme Court case, Boy Scouts of
America v. Dale. However, unlike the Boy Scouts, the NEA has issued
resolutions calling for sexual orientation tolerance and diversity,
so it cannot claim that it has asserted views opposing sexual
orientation.

* Orlando Commissioner Patty Sheehan denounced her fellow
commissioner for issuing a proclamation honoring an ex-gay
organization even though she herself freely makes proclamations
celebrating "Gay Days" every year at Disney World. Ms. Sheehan, an
open lesbian, went so far as to compare the ex-gay organization to
the KKK, thereby demeaning African-American ex-gays.

* Equality Virginia and other gay activist groups demanded that DC
Metro remove PFOX's subway billboards advocating tolerance for ex-
gays. As a result, the District of Columbia Metro system voted to
eliminate the non-profit billboard rate for all charities.

The list is endless because every day brings new hostile acts against
the ex-gay community simply because we dare to exist. The
demonization of ex-gays by gays themselves is a sad end to the long
struggle for tolerance by the gay community. That ex-gays and their
supporters are now oppressed by the same people who until recently
were victimized themselves, demonstrates how far the gay rights
movement has come. Indeed, a new chapter in the movement has begun –
the right of homosexuals and lesbians to leave unwanted
homosexuality.

Although gay organizations advocate for the rights of homosexuals,
lesbians, bisexuals, and transgenders, they do not add "ex-gay" to
that list. Therefore, if it were not for ex-gay organizations like
PFOX, former gay men and women would have no support in an
increasingly hostile environment. Americans need to face the real
issue of bigotry -- oppression of ex-gays. Gay activists cannot claim
sympathy as victims when they victimize their own. Therefore, we at
PFOX are alarmed that gay members of your organization and "external
organizations" have requested that you form a task force because of
their concerns about the role of advocacy for reparative theory "to
support an anti-gay activist role in legislative and judicial
arenas." It sounds like even more intolerance against the ex-gay
community with the APA seal of approval to legitimize their
prejudice.

The ex-gay movement is a civil rights movement to ensure the
inclusion of former homosexuals in all realms of society and to
support the ex-gay community's equal access to schools on the same
level as gays currently enjoy. Ex-gays and their supporters should
not have to be closeted for fear of other's negative reactions or
disapproval. They do not think something is wrong with them because
they decided to fulfill their heterosexual potential. Nor do they
believe others should condemn them for the personal decision they
have made for their lives. Because of the abuse heaped upon them by
society, former homosexuals experience discrimination at every level.
When a gay marries an opposite sex partner, that ex-gay is ridiculed
by former friends. Ex-gays find heterosexuals also reject them if
their past is known because "Once gay, always gay" is assumed. While
gays can come out of the "closet," ex-gays are forced to stay in
theirs because of public prejudice. While gays gain sympathy as
victims, ex-gays are criticized and face life-long intolerance for
simply existing as living proof that homosexuality is not innate.

PFOX respectfully requests that you include ex-gays and their allies
to your task force to ensure that science, and not bias, is the
object of the task force's mission. According to the American
Psychiatric Association, there are no replicated scientific studies
supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality. There
is no test for a gay gene. There is no scientific or DNA test to
determine if a person is homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual.
Sexual orientation is a matter of self-affirmation and public
declaration.

PFOX also requests that you issue a personal statement condemning
prejudice against the ex-gay community. Too often gay activists have
misused science in order to condone intolerance against the
participation of former homosexuals in the public arena, whether it
be equal access to public school forums or ex-gay speakers
participating in diversity events. Being ex-gay is not a disease and
seeking treatment for unwanted same-sex attractions is not a disease
either. We have gay sons and daughters and gay friends. We love and
respect both our gay children and our ex-gay friends. Tolerance
should extend to everyone regardless of sexual orientation.

Thank you for your consideration and we look forward to your
response.

Sincerely,

Regina Griggs
Executive Director
Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays & Gays
PFOX
Box 561, Fort Belvoir VA 22060
703-360-2225
www.pfox.org
pfox@...

by Karen Keen

Be Merciful as Your Father is Merciful
I need to forgive the religious Right.

Just writing that sentence makes my heart heavy. I'm finding it
difficult to do what I need to do. Resentment has wedged itself
deeply in my mind and heart. I'm not the only one struggling with
bitterness. Much has been said about the backlash against the
Christian Right. Books like UnChristian and They Like Jesus, but Not
the Church highlight the negative perceptions many young people have
of Christianity. Our anger at hypocritical and judgmental attitudes
in the Church is understandable. Definitely. But, what is often
missing from the discussion is how to forgive. As important as it is
to express our concerns, if all we do is air our grievances, we have
stopped short of our calling as followers of Jesus.

At the recent Exodus conference I was introduced to the new Focus on
the Family Gender Issues Analyst, Jeff Johnston. I took advantage of
the opportunity to vent my frustrations about the religious Right.
Somewhere in the midst of my venting, he slipped in the
question, "How are you going to forgive a system?" Implying 1) I
needed to forgive and 2) the religious Right is comprised of
people. "Jeff," I asserted with exasperation, "It's not just
individuals, it's the system! The whole fundamentalist culture is
screwed up!" He listened and reassured me his department is striving
to be part of the solution and not the problem. He welcomed any
constructive feedback I might have about their program. I thanked
him. Then, walked back to my room and tried not to brood over his
question.

Jeff is right, you can't forgive a system. Truthfully, I have
preferred it that way. I don't want to forgive. My focus on "the
system" allows me to detach from the humanity of my opponents. Just
as many ultra-conservatives broad-brush LGBT people in one swipe as
they rally against the "nameless, faceless gay agenda," so also I do
the same with the religious Right. I'm angry, and it's easier to be
angry at a system than to forgive real people. It's easier to broad-
brush the whole conservative bunch and rail against the
abstract "religious Right." But, systems and cultures are created by
individuals—people I am called to love. All of us want to assume
there is some loophole to Jesus' command, "Love your enemies." Many
ultra-conservatives justify their unkindness toward gay activists, so
also I make excuses for my attitude toward fundamentalists. In the
end, I am no better than those I oppose.


Forgiveness comes with a price—painful vulnerability and the
swallowing of our pride. But, it also comes with a profound gift.
Forgiveness enlightens us to God's mercy. Until we have wrestled with
the anguish of forgiving deep wounds, we have not understood the
great cost of Christ's crucifixion. When we forgive, we partake in
his suffering. God once lamented, "I have spread out My hands all day
long to . . . a people who continually provoke Me to My face" (Isaiah
65:2-3). It is a vulnerable thing to hold out our hands to those who
hurt us. Yet, that is what God did for us, and that is what it means
to be imitators of him. Consider these truths:


"In this is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us . . .
we love because he first loved us" (I John 4:10, 19).
"God demonstrates his own love toward us while we were still sinners"
(Romans 5:8)
"While we were enemies, we were reconciled to God" (Roman 5:10)
God is "kind to ungrateful and evil men" (Luke 6:35-36).

What would it look like to be the first to love even when love is not
returned? What would it look like to reconcile ourselves to our
enemies even as we are rejected? What would it look like to be kind
to those who are cruel? I admit this is where I panic. Some part of
me believes the myth that forgiveness is pretending everything is
okay, as though the offenses are not truly offenses. But, forgiveness
does not mean we approve of the wrong-doing of others or that we
cease to encourage positive change. Rather, it is this: we care about
our opponent enough that, instead of seeing them as enemies, we see
them as friends who have yet to come home. In forgiving, we put away
the walls that encumber that hoped for homecoming. Such forgiveness
melts our anger into sad lament as our hearts long for the welfare of
our enemy more than our own vindication.


Sometimes it's hard to know where to begin forgiveness. I decided to
start with a walk. I made my way around the neighborhood block this
week, verbalizing forgiveness toward every person in the religious
Right with whom I feel angry. I mentioned each person by name and
asked God to let me feel his heart toward them. As I did, I sensed
God asking me to let go of condemnation, and instead pray fervently
for their transformation. I also sensed my own sinfulness; not self-
condemnation, but a sadness that I am unlike my merciful Father.
Still, even knowing where I want to be doesn't mean I will arrive
today or even tomorrow. The hurt and anger I feel isn't going away
over night. I expect I'll be taking a few more walks in the coming
weeks. But, forgiveness will come. I know it will.


Friends, whether it is a religious Right activist or a gay activist
we need to forgive, our struggle to do so reveals how far we all need
to go to become like Jesus. God, please help us.


Karen Keen  is  a former lesbian and freelance writer and an
occasional speaker.  She has taught classes on various topics
including homosexuality, prayer, and end time prophecy.  She has a
particular interest in biblical studies and is currently applying to
Th.M. programs with the intent of pursuing a Ph.D. Karen has a M.S.
in education (counseling) from Western Oregon University and a MA in
exegetical theology from Western Seminary.

Contact: PursuingGod@...


.

Thank you for your prayers - I will need them so very much.

--- On Mon, 8/25/08, r2sane <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

From: r2sane <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [wives of exgays] Re: Need help
To: wivesofexgays@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 2:18 AM






First of all, don't give up! God is still in control. Your husband
does have a free will and can make choices that will disappoint you,
but don't give up on yourself and don't give up on God.

I believe it is unfair for him to think this has no affect on you
because of your physical difficulties. For a woman, sex is much more
emotional than physical in a long term relationship.

You are not in an easy situation, but please know that many here will
be praying for you and your husband. Read back through the old posts
and see where many of us have been and what God has brought us
through. We are not a large group, and we're not always very active,
but when you post to ask for prayer or just to vent, many here will
be praying for you.

Do let us know how you are doing by posting again soon. Check out
the links to the left and see what other support is available to
you. It is so helpful to learn that you are not alone and there are
others who have been down this same sad road before you. Learn to
take care of yourself emotionally. Find a therapist you can trust,
or a pastor you can talk with confidentially. You are struggling
wtih your physical health, so it is very important you don't ignore
your emotional health at this time.

Keep yourself close to God. Read His Word, pray, listen to
encouraging words on CD or television, play praise and worship
music. He truly is the greatest Healer of all time! And a friend who
sticks by you closer than a brother!

Praying for you and your husband!
B

--- In wivesofexgays@ yahoogroups. com, Sammy Smythe <igiveup4@.. .>
wrote:
>
> oops -
>  
> to continue -
>  
> he SWORE to me that his activity has NOTHING to do with "us" -
> it is COMPLETELY SEPERATE and has NO affect on "us" -
> I know that this is how he thinks - he cannot understand how this
could "bother" me -
> everything was fine....but that was when I didn't know what he was
doing...... 
> "What she doesn't know won't hurt her...."
>  
> I don't know what to do - I don't know whether I should just let it
alone and pretend (like he is) that nothing is going on -
> or, I should ask him to stop - which I do not think would happen -
> even if I threaten and say that I can't live like this anymore -
> I don't know what will happen -  
>  
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear PFOX Supporters,

Most local libraries stock gay books, but not ex-gay books. According
to the American Library Association, libraries cannot support
censorship and a librarian's professional code requires them to seek
out books that represent a wide range of viewpoints. Please ask your
county, school, or city library to order ex-gay books. Many public
libraries have book order forms on their website which allow you to
request specific books for the libraries to buy.

Below is a letter from a PFOX Dad on how to ensure that your local
library is not censoring ex-gay books:


Dear Parents and Friends,

Good day to you all and thank you for taking the time to read this
letter. It is of critical importance, not only to us as parents and
friends, but to all the families that are affected by SAME SEX
ATTRACTION (SSA) to get involved with helping others.

Since you are in receipt of this letter, it is most likely that
homosexuality has touched your family in some way. Regardless of when
touched by SSA, the flood of emotions remains real. Can you remember
searching for answers? Do you remember coming up empty handed? Was
every book and website encountered leaving you with an empty feeling
that something is missing?

Recently, while looking at our public library website for something
totally not related to SSA, my wife pointed out all the pro-gay
information on the local library web site. After some diligent
searching, it became apparent there was little to no information on
unwanted SSA. Material on how homosexuality originates was absent.
Any resources to help people overcome their SAME SEX ATTRACTION were
also absent.

This led me to do website searches for all the counties in Arizona
with almost identical results. Further website searches on the public
libraries for Boston, San Francisco, and Los Angeles again yielded
the same results. What became apparent is that ex-gay books and
resources have either been eliminated or never included in the
libraries.

Fellow parents and friends, this is our time to stand together in
order to assist other families. You can help by searching your local
and school libraries for ex-gay books and resource material. Most
public libraries have online catalogs on their website where you can
search for books. Once you have determined helpful information is
missing, write the schools, libraries, school boards, and politicians
to alert them to this systematic censorship. Gently point out that
censorship should not be the job of the library, and then insist that
they include ex-gay books such as those listed below. You must also
point out that this material belongs under the classification of
homosexuality. Also, many public libraries have book order forms on
their website which allow you to request specific books for the
libraries to buy.

Below is a sample of a letter I sent to our local library which
resulted in some positive steps with books ordered within two weeks
and a note that web sites will be added shortly. Feel free to use it,
and then do not forget to follow up.

Best wishes to all, let's all get to work. Write back to PFOX with
your results at pfox@...

Sincerely,

Jose Schwartz
PFOX Dad
_______________________________

(Sample letter for you to send)

Dear Librarian,

Good day. The reason for this e-mail is an obvious omission in
material associated with the _______Library System which needs to be
addressed immediately. The health, safety and well being of many
people hinges on getting this situation rectified.

While searching your library's online catalog, I could not find many
books about leaving homosexuality or the origins of same sex
attractions. Every day parents of gay children search for answers to
their children's condition only to be given the same
information: "deal with it" or "they are born that way". Neither of
these are satisfactory options for the concerned parent. In addition
to the numerous homosexual books which appears on your library
system, your library needs to provide ex-gay books to everyone
seeking it.

Please provide equal access to all information, including ex-gay
books. According to the American Library Association, libraries
cannot support censorship and a librarian's professional code
requires them to seek out books that represent a wide range of
viewpoints. Therefore, please order some of the following books for
the library:

• Restoring Sexual Identity by Anne Paulk (Harvest House, 2003) ISBN:
0736911790

• When Homosexuality Hits Home: What to Do When a Loved One Says
They're Gay by Joe Dallas (Harvest House, 2004) ISBN: 0736912010

• 101 Frequently Asked Questions About Homosexuality by Mike Haley
(Harvest House, 2004) ISBN: 0736914706 ISBN-13: 9780736914703

· My Genes Made Me Do It: A Scientific Look at Sexual Orientation by
Dr. Neil and Briar Whitehead ISBN-10:1563841657 ISBN-13:978-
1563841651

· The Battle for Normality by Gerard J.M. van den Aardweg, Ph.D. ISBN-
10:0898706149; ISBN-13:978-0898706147

· The Heart of Female Same-Sex Attraction by Janelle Hallman ISBN-
10:083083429X; ISBN-13:978-0830834297

· Light in the Closet: Torah, Homosexuality, and the Power to Change
by Arthur Goldberg ISBN: 0-9631478-8-9

· A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality by Joseph and Linda
Nicolosi ISBN:0830823794

· Homosexual No More by William Consiglio ISBN-10: 0896939359; ISBN-
13:978-0896939356

· Desires in Conflict by Joe Dallas ISBN-10: 0736912118; ISBN-13:978-
0736912112

· The Battle for Normality by Van Den Aardwig ISBN-10: 0898706149;
ISBN-13:978-0898706147

· Alfie's Home (Children's picture book) by Richard Cohen ISBN:
0963705806

· Homosexuality: The Politics of Truth by Jeffrey Satinover ISBN-
10:080105625X; ISBN-13:978-0801056253

· Healing Homosexuality: Case Stories by Joseph Nicolosi ISBN-10:
0876683405; ISBN-13: 978-0876683408

· The Puzzle - Exploring the Puzzle of Male Homosexuality by Louis A
Berman ISBN-10: 0972301313; ISBN-13: 978-0972301312

Many of these books can be ordered at:
http://www.cepbooks.com/cgi-bin/wwregistry.pl?::cepbooks::::::Books

Also while searching your library's website, there was a link to "Gay
and Lesbian" issues. If you follow this link, there is absolutely
nothing about Unwanted Same Sex Attraction (SSA) or how homosexuality
originates. There is nothing about GID (Gender Identity Disorder)
either. Links to informative and supportive web sites should be on
your web site. These links need at a minimum to include:

http://www.exodusbooks.org/
http://www.pathinfo.org/
http://www.homosexuality101.org/
http://www.exodus-international.org/
http://www.freedomispossible.org/

People leave homosexuality every day. The information is for those
wanting it, seeking it, needing it. As the gay community says, it is
all about choice and self-determination. The problem with choice is,
in order to choose, there must be more than one thing to select from…
correct? Please, give everyone with UNWANTED SAME SEX ATTRACTION the
resources needed in order to make an educated decision.

Very truly yours,

Your signature
http://www.pfox.org/

sammy,
I am so sorry that you are going thru this and I will be praying for you as
well....
you can search my screen name in our group and see my previous posts..I hope
they will
help you....
the larger issue in your marriage is not the gay activity (although it IS an
issue), the issue
has become broken promises and lies..he swore to you that he would stop and he
didn't.
as for how it bothers you, just remind him what the wedding vows
were....forsaking ALL others and keeping each other for each other....
If he says he doesn't want to hurt you, but keeps on doing what he is doing
anyway, even knowing how it makes you feel, he is not concerned with protecting
you emotionally at all.
It is very interesting how we try to rationalize our sins....my husband thought
it wasn't cheating because he was not having sex with other women...
As far as what you should do...Pray... God will not forsake you....He will
replace the years that the locusts have eaten....you have a hard choice to
make...you should ask your husband to stop because he is breaking his marriage
vows that he made to you...if he can't see that and be your protector, he is no
husband....find another trusted woman friend to confide in...someone who can
give you a hug every now and again...take care of yourself, get your hair done,
get a pedicure, get a new outfit....whatever it takes to keep your spirits
up.....you are still the beautiful woman that God created :)
mommab

--- On Tue, 8/19/08, Sammy Smythe <igiveup4@...> wrote:
From: Sammy Smythe <igiveup4@...>
Subject: [wives of exgays] Need help
To: wivesofexgays@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 8:56 AM











             oops -

 

to continue -

 

he SWORE to me that his activity has NOTHING to do with "us" -

it is COMPLETELY SEPERATE and has NO affect on "us" -

I know that this is how he thinks - he cannot understand how this could "bother"
me -

everything was fine....but that was when I didn't know what he was doing...... 

"What she doesn't know won't hurt her...."

 

I don't know what to do - I don't know whether I should just let it alone and
pretend (like he is) that nothing is going on -

or, I should ask him to stop - which I do not think would happen -

even if I threaten and say that I can't live like this anymore -

I don't know what will happen -  

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

First of all, don't give up!  God is still in control.  Your husband
does have a free will and can make choices that will disappoint you,
but don't give up on yourself and don't give up on God.

I believe it is unfair for him to think this has no affect on you
because of your physical difficulties.  For a woman, sex is much more
emotional than physical in a long term relationship.

You are not in an easy situation, but please know that many here will
be praying for you and your husband.  Read back through the old posts
and see where many of us have been and what God has brought us
through.  We are not a large group, and we're not always very active,
but when you post to ask for prayer or just to vent, many here will
be praying for you.

Do let us know how you are doing by posting again soon.  Check out
the links to the left and see what other support is available to
you.  It is so helpful to learn that you are not alone and there are
others who have been down this same sad road before you.  Learn to
take care of yourself emotionally.  Find a therapist you can trust,
or a pastor you can talk with confidentially.  You are struggling
wtih your physical health, so it is very important you don't ignore
your emotional health at this time.

Keep yourself close to God.  Read His Word, pray, listen to
encouraging words on CD or television, play praise and worship
music.  He truly is the greatest Healer of all time! And a friend who
sticks by you closer than a brother!

Praying for you and your husband!
B

--- In wivesofexgays@yahoogroups.com, Sammy Smythe <igiveup4@...>
wrote:
>
> oops -
>  
> to continue -
>  
> he SWORE to me that his activity has NOTHING to do with "us" -
> it is COMPLETELY SEPERATE and has NO affect on "us" -
> I know that this is how he thinks - he cannot understand how this
could "bother" me -
> everything was fine....but that was when I didn't know what he was
doing...... 
> "What she doesn't know won't hurt her...."
>  
> I don't know what to do - I don't know whether I should just let it
alone and pretend (like he is) that nothing is going on -
> or, I should ask him to stop - which I do not think would happen -
> even if I threaten and say that I can't live like this anymore -
> I don't know what will happen -  
>  
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thinking About Gay Marriage?

By Karen Keen

Since this blog doesn't have enough controversy already, and because
I am, apparently, a glutton for punishment, I thought we could have a
discussion on gay marriage. As you know, all eyes are on the West
Coast after the California Supreme Court ruled that gay couples have
the right to marry. Chief Justice Ronald M. George wrote: "An
individual's sexual orientation—like a person's race or gender—does
not constitute a legitimate basis upon which to deny or withhold
legal rights" (italics added). Now efforts are underway to reverse
that decision by introducing a state constitutional amendment that
reads: "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or
recognized in California." Proponents of Proposition 8 are being met
with hearty resistance from those who support same-sex marriage, and
both sides are pouring millions of dollars into campaigns before
voters hit the polls in November.


To be honest, I don't really want to talk about gay marriage. In
fact, until recently I had successfully, and quite contentedly,
ignored the entire topic completely. The political battle gave me
unpleasant flashbacks of the religious Right, and I wasn't about to
touch it with a ten foot pole. But, recently I received an e-mail
from a professor friend asking me to reflect and think on the issues.
This friend is well-educated with a Ph.D. She is not a right-winger,
and she has friends and relatives who are gay. In other words, she is
not an extremist. So when she expressed concerns about gay marriage,
I paused to consider her thoughts.


What my friend helped me to remember is that this is a history making
event. This is going to change society in significant ways. If gay
marriage is upheld in California, it will be heralded as a landmark
civil rights moment for LGBT people, and it will, without a doubt,
usher the rest of the nation into full approval of gay marriage and
homosexuality. If gay marriage is not upheld, others will herald it
as the preservation of an integral societal structure that has shaped
people groups and families across history. Given that the California
decision is such a monumental event, we should care enough to think
through the issues and engage in dialogue. What follows is my
reflections, and I hope you will share yours as well.


Even though I do not believe homosexuality is God's best for
humanity, I can empathize with proponents of gay marriage. When I
look at my gay friends who have been in committed partnerships for
many years—kind, wonderful people I care about—it is difficult to
consider denying them important benefits that come with marriage.
Unlike those on the religious Right, I understand they are not
seeking "special rights." LGBT people desire the same rights as
heterosexual couples. Marriage confers important benefits including
those related to child custody, hospital visitation, taxes,
inheritance and much more. I also recognize that we live in a
pluralistic society. We do not live under a theocracy (thankfully).
Not everyone ascribes to biblical proscriptions. We are a diverse
people with various perspectives on religion and sexual ethics. Thus,
there needs to be compelling societal reasons for society to deny
same-sex marriage.


The religious Right, with its exaggerated rhetoric, isn't terribly
helpful in discerning valid reasons for voting against gay marriage.
For example, I was astonished to see this video exchange between FOX
news Bill O'Reilly and Family Law attorney Don Schweitzer. O'Reilly
asked what reason could be provided for denying same-sex marriage
aside from biblical prohibitions. Schweitzer had no answer.
Conservatives often take for granted that what is "common sense" to
them makes sense to everyone else and thus fail to provide an
adequate apologetic. Even the slogan "protect marriage" can be
confusing. What exactly does that mean? I've heard sentiments
like: "Are you implying that if my friend Bob down the street marries
his partner Jim, I'm going to start fighting with my spouse? How does
my friend's gay marriage have any negative impact on my heterosexual
relationship? Doesn't the fact that gay people want to marry show
they value marriage?"


So, when it comes down to it, does it really matter if gay marriage
is legalized? Sure, I have my personal opinion on homosexuality, but
is it a big deal to allow LGBT people do what they want to do? That
is the mentality I and many of my friends have had. Yet, as I began
to get past the religious Right rhetoric and examine the issue more
carefully, I can see why some, like my professor friend, have
concerns. Specifically, government approval of homosexuality through
legalization of gay marriage 1) makes it more difficult to follow
one's conscience or express certain beliefs on homosexuality without
negative repercussions and 2) underestimates society's need for
gender complementarity.


Gay Marriage's Legal Impact on Society


As Chief Justice Ronald M. George stated, the approval of gay
marriage is based on the premise that sexual orientation is like race
and gender and should, therefore, be accorded the same rights as
these two classes. We are already seeing the legal ramifications of
this premise in the States and abroad. Just this past week, the
California Supreme Court ruled that two doctors erred in refusing to
perform artificial insemination for a lesbian despite a conflict with
religious beliefs.

In the court ruling, Justice J. Kennard wrote: " . . . the First
Amendment's right to the free exercise of religion does not exempt
defendant physicians here from conforming their conduct to the [Unruh
Civil Rights] Act's antidiscrimination requirements even if
compliance poses an incidental conflict with defendant's religious
beliefs" (p. 10). Other cases include:


An Anglican bishop in the U.K was ordered to attend equal
opportunities training and pay over $92,000 for refusing to hire a
gay man for a job within the diocese even though homosexual practice
conflicts with the church's beliefs on sexual ethics.

Crystal Dixon was fired from her job in Human Resources at the
University of Toledo where she had worked for six years after writing
this editorial for the local paper expressing her religious
perspective on homosexuality.

Christian Horizons, one of the largest ministries in Canada was fined
$23,000 and ordered to cease using its contract for employees that
included an agreement to (among other things) refrain from homosexual
relationships.

In Massachusetts where gay marriage was recently legalized, the
courts ruled that schools can teach children as young as kindergarten
about homosexuality without providing parental notification or the
option for parents to withdraw their child from class.

Do most Americans realize and desire these consequences? How might
this set precedence on other matters of law and conscience down the
road?


Gender Matters


In addition to legal ramifications, there are also gender issues to
consider in evaluating gay marriage. A while ago, I wrote a post
called Male and Female: Does It Matter? In it I explained reasons why
I decided not to be in a same-sex marriage. Space does not permit me
to repeat everything here. So if you haven't read it yet, please do
so. The reality is gender does matter. Men and women are not
interchangeable. There is something mysteriously distinct and
beautiful about male and female that contributes to a type of
yin/yang societal balance. Within families, mothers, aunts, sisters
and grandmothers provide a unique flavor to community that is
valuable and different from what fathers, uncles, brothers and
grandfathers provide. This mystical distinction is particularly clear
in the parent/child relationship. We know the difference between a
mother and a father. And most of us mourn the lack when one is
missing.


In a March 25, 2002 interview with ABC's Diane Sawyer, Rosie
O'Donnell was asked if her son Parker ever asked for a dad. O'Donnell
responded, "Of course he has. He's a six-year-old boy. He says, `I
want to have a daddy.' I said, `I can imagine. That would be great.'
And would it be easier for them if I were married to a man? It
probably would." Parker has two loving parents, and yet some part of
him longs for a dad. What boy does not innately crave a father? Of
course, this does not mean single parent homes or even LGBT homes
cannot meaningfully raise children. But, should we intentionally
create families that result in the loss of one gender? What is the
long-term impact on society?


Gay-affirming researchers Judith Stacey and Timothy Biblarz highlight
differences in heterosexual families versus "lesbigay" families in
their study (How) Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter. In a
review of 21 studies, they found "researchers frequently downplay
findings indicating differences" and children raised in lesbigay
families exhibit "significantly higher" rates of considering and/or
involvement in homosexual relationships and, for girls, a greater
number of sex partners. They also found evidence of gender atypical
behavior (feminization of boys and masculinization of girls). Are
these outcomes good for society?


Not every gay couple has children, and many single-gender families
thrive. However, I am concerned that gay marriage overlooks the need
for gender complementarity. It diminishes the importance of male and
female. Some welcome this outcome. Researchers Stacey and Biblarz see
their study results as positive. But are they? Something about
Parker's longing for a dad tells me otherwise. Each gender is
beautiful in its uniqueness. It is good that men and women are
distinct. Male and female each contribute a different aura the other
cannot. We need each other in shaping societal structures, including
the family unit. Gay marriage is missing something—someone. And, deep
in my gut, my being mourns the loss.

Contact: PursuingGod@...

http://pursuegod.wordpress.com/about/


-The Blogger: Karen Keen is a fomer lesbian works in Student Affairs
at the University of California, Santa Cruz. In 2004, she founded
Campus Ministries Fellowship at UC Santa Cruz to unite campus
Christian clubs in prayer and collaborative outreach. She led CMF for
four years.  During this time, through active involvement with
Veritas Forum, she organized student dialogue on topics of faith and
culture, including Palestinian/Israeli reconciliation and social
justice.

Karen is also a freelance writer and an occasional speaker.  She has
taught classes on various topics including homosexuality, prayer, and
end time prophecy.  She has a particular interest in biblical studies
and is currently applying to Th.M. programs with the intent of
pursuing a Ph.D. Karen has a M.S. in education (counseling) from
Western Oregon University and a MA in exegetical theology from
Western Seminary.

  In her free-time, Karen enjoys hiking in the redwoods, reading,
watching documentaries, spending time with friends and participating
in the house church Gathering By the Bay. Click here to read her
story. Contact: PursuingGod@...

oops -
 
to continue -
 
he SWORE to me that his activity has NOTHING to do with "us" -
it is COMPLETELY SEPERATE and has NO affect on "us" -
I know that this is how he thinks - he cannot understand how this could "bother"
me -
everything was fine....but that was when I didn't know what he was doing...... 
"What she doesn't know won't hurt her...."
 
I don't know what to do - I don't know whether I should just let it alone and
pretend (like he is) that nothing is going on -
or, I should ask him to stop - which I do not think would happen -
even if I threaten and say that I can't live like this anymore -
I don't know what will happen -  
 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

About 12 years ago, I found out about my husbands other life.
At the time, we had been married 16 years, and even though I am well aware of
how naive I am, I was completly astonished and terrified.
The fact that we bought our first computer apparently offered my husband the
opportunity to reawaken his dorment preferences and manically pursued them
online.
TOTALLY by accident, I found an e-mail that made it very clear to me what he was
doing.
(Just to make it more horrible for me, I had just been diagnosed with breast
cancer and had
a double lumpectomy. I thought it was my fault for not being sexy enough for him
and not being able to fulfill his needs.)
He had been meeting people in person, not just online.
Very long story short, I told him I knew - we talked about it - I thought he
understood how it made me feel, and he said "he would never do anything to hurt
me....
Well, dumb, silly me, a year or so later, I found out that he was again/still
involved -
I was angrier this time, and he ASSURRED me that if nothing else, he would never
even consider sex because of the consequences, meaning AIDS.
During this second incident, I was taking Tamoxafin (my breast cancer, which had
returned - I had a mastechtomy) and it played havoc with my hormones = emotions
= sex.
I was certainly not a partner he could count on, I know that.
Finally I had to have a hysterectmy - and they took IT ALL - I now feel like a
piece of stone - I can't even remember what sexual desire feels like anymore.
It has been several years since we have had sex - I know that I have "allowed"
him to justify what is happening now - again, and this is truly unbelieveable, I
accidently found out that he has joined an online group and is meeting others
for sex......
I do NOT know what to do. He should get an Academy Award for his acting - I just
feel so stupid as I babble on and on about our home and family and all the other
things a married couple might discuss (we do not have any children) and he is
online making his next date....
If I didn't know now for sure, I would have no idea, base on the way he treats
me. He is loving and supportive and sypmathises with me about my hormonal-hell.
He comes home every night, but he has ample opportunity during the day - being
the boss, he can leave the office as he pleases - I shudder to think about the
few business trips he takes.
When we talked about this in the past, he SWORE that




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Interviews with Joseph Nicolosi-You can join the discussion over at
Dr.Throckmorton's blog http://wthrockmorton.com/

Here is a three part interview with Joseph Nicolosi, who discusses his
views of homosexuality and his approach to therapy.

Part One
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SE6asGS5nI&NR=1

Part Two
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prpjWSNc_zw

Part Three
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SE6asGS5nI

The Great War: Ex Gay vs Gay

by Karen Keen

Jeff Lutes, Executive Director of Soulforce recently expressed a
sentiment that resonates with me.  In their latest newsletter, he
said, ". . . each family participating in the American Family Outing
is highly trained in nonviolent resistance methods of M.K. Gandhi and
Martin Luther King, Jr.  If you've ever attended a Soulforce training
event, you know that the goal of our actions is reconciliation with
our adversaries . . ." (bold in original).  Two words stand out in
this paragraph—resistance and reconciliation.  To resist is
to "strive against or oppose."  To reconcile is to "bring into
agreement or harmony."  This is the paradox for those engaged in the
culture war on homosexuality.  Groups like Soulforce and Exodus are
striving against each other in a fight for what they believe is
right.  Yet, there is a longing for the estrangement to end.

  The dilemma is this: we cannot have both resistance and
reconciliation.  Opposition and harmony are in tension with one
another.  By definition, resistance indicates reconciliation has not
yet been achieved. No one strives against or opposes those with whom
one is already in agreement.  Like Lutes, I desire reconciliation;
yet our differences keep us "adversaries" (as he put it). In fact,
the disagreement is so significant that those on both sides have
called it a "war." That is a strong assertion. Is it accurate to say
we are at war? Is it really that serious? During an address at the
recent Exodus conference, Andy Comiskey said:

When you claim healing for the homosexual, you have declared war. And
people, it is only going to get worse; it is only going to get worse
in the changing cultural climate in which we live. Ours is not a
benign healing path, it is a call to battle.

Mel White, co-founder of Soulforce expressed a similar sentiment
while in Santa Cruz, California for the 2004 gay pride:

Unless we do something, soon, we won't have the right to disagree.
I'm talking about boycotts, strikes, protest. I'm calling for war,
but a non-violent war—Monterey County Herald, June 2004

Neither Comiskey nor White advocates a war of guns and bombs.  Both
abhor violence.  Rather, they are being honest about the severity of
the schism—an honesty that makes many of us uncomfortable. We don't
want this war. We don't want to think about it. We would rather dress
it up in prettier language or pretend it doesn't exist at all. But,
as much as we may want to, there is no denying the profound
differences that exist. Coming to grips with that reality is hard for
me. For the last several months I have wrestled with how to respond
to this schism. I've prayed, paced, cried, listened to opinions on
each side, and vented my angst to friends.  In grappling with the
issues, I have also "poked" a lot of people.  I've expressed
concerns, raised challenges and pondered rebuttals with allies,
opponents and everyone in-between. I poked Alan Chambers and Mike
Ensley in discussions on their blogs about politics.  I poked readers
of Ex-Gay Watch.  I poked six mega-church pastors who were visited by
Soulforce's American Family Outing. I poked folks like Melissa
Fryrear and Michael Brown in private e-mails. I even poked Peter
LaBarbera and Linda Harvey.

This effort to engage in conversation on the culture war has not been
easy.  At times it is anxiety producing.  But, it has been a learning
process, one that sometimes forces me out of my comfort zone. For
example, the letter I sent to the six mega-church pastors was
definitely out of my comfort zone.  Not because I'm afraid to express
my opinions, but because it resembled too closely an activist form of
protest.  And I don't like protest. I would rather have harmony.  In
fact, I expressed this wistful thinking in a recent dialogue on Ex-
Gay Watch. In response to a blogger's assertion that my traditional
stance on homosexuality is equivalent to views that supported slavery
I said, I guess I had hoped that "nice ex-gays" could somehow co-
exist with those in the gay community. And, I think in some cases
this does occur. But, for those who truly see sexual orientation like
race, the mere idea that homosexuality is sin–in of itself–becomes a
hurtful idea.

It doesn't matter how "nice" I am.  I can oppose discrimination
against gays in housing and employment. I can fight against hostile
treatment of gay people. But in the end, it is my basic beliefs on
homosexuality that cause offense. Another blogger on Ex-Gay Watch
went so far as to tell me: It absolutely doesn't matter that you
don't support discrimination and don't condone any mistreatment or
abuse of gay people. You don't have to. You do a great deal of damage
just asserting you're ex gay. As an "ex-gay" I am an offense because
of what that represents—the belief that homosexuality is contrary to
God's will.

Soulforce and many other gay activists perceive such a belief
promotes "spiritual violence." This was their charge against the six
mega-church pastors with whom they sought dialogue. Soulforce hoped
to convince these adversaries to change their offensive views on
homosexuality. In their genuine desire for reconciliation American
Family Outing was friendly and engaging. So much so it sometimes
obscured the reality of the resistance they were engaging in. I think
that is what prompted me to write the open letter regarding AFO  (see
document here: lettertomegachurches). Even though it's not the type
of protest I normally engage in, some part of me wanted to cut to the
chase. I wanted the honesty of Comiskey and White.

Yes, both sides desire reconciliation. Both sides are full of good
people.  But the reality is there is this "resistance" that stands
between us. Reconciliation is not possible until one side
acquiesces.  One of us must stop resisting. With such deeply held
convictions on each side is that realistic? As Soulforce's mission
statement puts it: their resistance is "relentless." And those on the
other side are just as persistent. So, this struggle, fight,
battle, "war" doesn't seem destined to end any time soon. That being
the case, the question then becomes, How as followers of Jesus do we
engage in it with love?

Note: Even though I refer primarily to Soulforce and Exodus, I am
really speaking of the larger culture war on homosexuality which
involves many participants beyond these two organizations. Also, this
post is particularly applicable to those who are actively engaged in
these issues. I realize some people are disengaged from the culture
war or observing it from a distance.

Karen Keen works in Student Affairs at the University of California,
Santa Cruz. In 2004, she founded Campus Ministries Fellowship at UC
Santa Cruz to unite campus Christian clubs in prayer and
collaborative outreach. She led CMF for four years.  During this
time, through active involvement with Veritas Forum, she organized
student dialogue on topics of faith and culture, including
Palestinian/Israeli reconciliation and social justice.

Karen is also a freelance writer and an occasional speaker.  She has
taught classes on various topics including homosexuality, prayer, and
end time prophecy.  She has a particular interest in biblical studies
and is currently applying to Th.M. programs with the intent of
pursuing a Ph.D. Karen has a M.S. in education (counseling) from
Western Oregon University and a MA in exegetical theology from
Western Seminary.

In her free-time, Karen enjoys hiking in the redwoods, reading,
watching documentaries, spending time with friends and participating
in the house church Gathering By the Bay. Click here to read her
story. Contact: PursuingGod@...

http://pursuegod.wordpress.com/about/

For those who struggle with same-sex attraction, the question of
change is often in our minds. Even though we say, "It's about
holiness, not heterosexuality," many of us go into counseling or
support groups with hopes of changing our sexual orientation. I know
I did. I didn't have any desire to live a celibate life. So I spent
several years hoping and trying for change. But, placing one's hope
in change can disappoint. This week both Wendy and Jay offer
excellent reminders about where our hope is truly found. Please take
the time to read what they have to say (note, Jay's article is a
comment about Wendy's original article).

http://pursuegod.wordpress.com/


Offering hope?

by Wendy Gritter, of  New Direction

OK – buckle your seatbelts…. this is going to be as close to a rant
as I get.

Something's been bugging me. Sort of like a sliver under your
fingernail that you just can't get out. It had come to my attention
that a colleague had told others that "New Direction doesn't offer
hope anymore."

Now, I'm not looking for sympathy here …. but let's face it, New
Direction deals with a pretty controversial area of ministry. It
isn't easy at the best of times to build credibility and engage
pastors and local churches in our work. So, when a ministry
colleague, who well knows the challenges facing a ministry like
ours, takes a pot-shot at our credibility by saying `we no longer
offer hope'…. it's frustrating.

I wondered why this colleague didn't call me up and say, "Hey I've
got some concerns about the kind of language I see you using on your
website – can you clarify some things for me?" Why didn't they check
out their concerns before spreading a death-knell for credibility
and trustworthiness?

So the other night I had the opportunity to have a conversation with
this colleague. Turns out, yes, they were concerned that we weren't
offering hope anymore. Seems their big concern was with our
distinctive that we are `discipleship-focused, not change driven' –
that we seemed to be saying that sexual orientation change wasn't
always possible.

Now I have a bit of a track record for being candid….ok upfront …..
ok downright blunt sometimes. I asked this person if they thought
every same-gender attracted follower of Jesus would become fully
heterosexual. They said no. But, they said, they saw heterosexuality
as part of God's plan of redemption for people. "Everyone is on a
journey towards heterosexuality", they said, "but some people only
go a little way down that road." So then I asked about the
disconnect for same-gender attracted people who don't experience any
significant change in the direction or intensity of their
attractions – those who "only go a little way down the road" ….. You
see, my concern is that we not set people up for a striving, good-
works based gospel. My concern is that we don't set up a system
where people constantly feel like they don't measure up, that their
faith must be deficient…. where they are perpetually vulnerable to a
sense of shame and condemnation for simply continuing to be same-
gender attracted. This colleague agreed, that wasn't what they
wanted either ….. Then I said, "We're offering people Jesus Christ –
at the centre of their life, identity and sexuality – and Jesus is
the hope of the world – how can you say that we're not offering
hope – when we're offering people Jesus??"

Paul says, "When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with
eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony
about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you
except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness and
fear, and with much trembling." (I Corinthians 2: 1-3)

In our wrestling for the blessing for same-gender attracted people,
we are emerging in weakness and fear and with much trembling. There
is a lot we don't know about sexual orientation. We don't really
know what causes it, exactly how and what influences it, or how to
consistently or permanently affect it. Even our trained counselors
are humbled in the face of the complexities and seek to minister
with gentleness and discernment. We've seen God do amazing things in
people's lives. But is the Christian life about the amazing things
God does for us? Or is the Christian life about knowing God and
participating with him in his mission to restore the world to right
relationship with God?

By making heterosexuality part of God's redemption plan…. I have to
wonder if it isn't just buying in to the consumer notion of
Christianity. "Being a Christian is about getting what you want."

I just heard the news about a precious little nephew born a few
weeks back. Baby John has Down's Syndrome. Is Down's God's best
intention for humanity? Should we all now commit ourselves to
praying and fasting that God will heal baby John of the reality of
his condition? Will we limit John's experience of faith in Jesus
Christ because of his Down's syndrome?

Before I find myself in a wasp's nest of controversy, I am not
suggesting a one-to-one comparison of Down's with the experience of
same-gender attraction. What I'm simply trying to do is raise some
questions about how we go about shaping our theology of redemption.

When I was in seminary, I had an important conversation with my
uncle – someone I respect who has been a pastor for many years. I
was struggling with a number of doctrinal issues and he
said, "Wendy, I've always felt that the church needed to focus much
more on biblical theology than on systematic theology."

Systematic theology says, "God's best intention for human sexual
intimacy is the covenant of marriage between husband and wife.
Therefore, in God's plan of restoration and redemption, he will
restore heterosexuality to those who do not naturally experience
it." Never-mind that there are deeply devoted disciples of Jesus who
have prayed much, experienced much counsel and ministry, and
continue to walk day-by-day in the reality of experiencing same-
gender attraction.

As for me and my team at New Direction, what we do know, without a
shadow of a doubt, is that Jesus Christ is the light of the world.
We know he loves all people and all of creation. We know that in him
we are accepted by God. We know he offers us abundant life – but
that he invites us to experience that through his upside-down
economy of suffering, dying to self, taking up our cross and
following him. We know that we experience redemption now – as we
come to experience intimate relationship with God within the perfect
relationship of Father, Son and Spirit.

I don't think the experience of same-gender attraction is immutable.
There seems to be sufficient evidence of the fluidity of sexuality
for at least some people to prevent us from putting anyone's
sexuality in a box. But that certainly doesn't mean everyone's
sexuality can and will change. (ok Karen K. I got sucked in ….. I
did end up touching on this question on this blog :))

I've heard this very same colleague say that homosexuality is not a
salvation issue ….it falls under the realm of sanctification
(becoming more like Jesus). Yet, when we, in humbleness, take a step
back from the issue of orientation change ….. we no longer offer
hope??

Galatians 5:14-16: The entire law is summed up in a single
command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." If you keep on biting and
devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each
other.

"Lord, help me to keep my eyes fixed on you – the author and
finisher of our faith. Help me to trust you to guard and protect New
Direction as you keep leading us to risk and serve and love gay
people. And keep my heart soft, open, gracious and forgiving – it's
much easier to just be pissed off. Make me like you."



by Jay

I like Wendy Gritter, and I like New Direction. She's a sweet and
Christ-focused woman and I think New Direction is one of the most
Christ-centered ministries for people that deal with same-sex
attraction. I was upset when I read her recent blog post about a
colleague that has been claiming New Direction "doesn't offer hope
anymore."

Now, I'm not going to refute that statement here. Ms. Gritter has
already done extremely well with that in the linked post, and I
highly suggest you read it. I will offer my own personal story,
though. I've never been involved with New Direction (sadly, I'm not
Canadian), and the only contact I've had with Ms. Gritter is through
comments on her blog. However, I think out of all these types of
ministries, New Direction's philosopy most closely resembles my own,
and even I have been accused, in a round-about way, of not having
enough hope.

Usually when someone makes that kind of snarky remark about hope,
what they mean to say is that I'm not falling over myself in an
effort to be straight. I'm comfortable and happy as I am. I'm not
comfortable with my sins or my temptations, mind you, but at the
same time I'm not stressed about how I dress, or how I talk, or how
I express my emotions, or whether or not a pretty young woman turns
my head. The way some of the ex-gay ministries talk, you'd think
that a "normal" heterosexual existence with a dog, yard, and three
kids was a Biblical mandate.

Quite simply, it's not. Ms. Gritter mentioned how her critcs said
they saw heterosexuality as part of God's redemption plan. "Everyone
is on a journey towards heterosexuality," they said, "but some
people only go a little way down that road." That's their excuse for
the same-sex attracted men and women who don't experience change in
their attractions (which I would say is most likely the majority of
SSA folks). Oh sure, accoding to them we're not sinning by being
content celibates, but we're not whole either. We haven't completed
our "journey towards heterosexuality."

I got a little mad when I first read that, but then it saddened me.
It saddened me to know that there are people who would sell out
Christ for something as fleeting as human sexuality. Sure,
heterosexuality is a beautiful and God-given gift, but it won't last
forever. There will be no marriage in Heaven, and thus, no sex.
We'll be in such perfect union with God there will be no need for
any other kind of union. So I feel saddened for people who think we
are on a "journey towards heterosexuality" instead of a journey
towards Christ. I feel even more saddened by those in these
ministries who aren't experiencing change, and thus are made to feel
like they've only gone "a little way down that road." Sure, they're
denying themselves and taking up their crosses and following Christ,
often leaving behind years of a lifestyle that they no longer think
is right yet still having to deal with the emotions it left behind,
but of course they aren't whole. They've only gone "a little way
down that road." Give me a break.

Our hope is not in anything on this Earth. Nothing. Not our family,
not our friends, not a spouse, not children, not jobs, money, cars,
trips, pets, not anything. Our only hope is Christ crucified.
Crucified for our sins, receiving wrath so we don't have to. Our
hope is the cross. So I have to give an "Amen!" to Ms. Gritter when
she says, "How can you say we're not offering hope - when we're
offering people Jesus?" That's right. How can you?

Look, it's not easy living without sex, but it's not the hardest
thing in the world. No one's asking me to renounce my faith or be
imprisioned, or even killed. I'm not being asked to go through the
painful process of giving up drugs or alcohol. All I'm asked to do
is keep it in my pants and make sure my appreciation of Pete Wentz
stays strictly that - appreciation (and yes, I think Pete Wentz is
cute, and I even like Fall Out Boy's music. Pick on me all you want).

Maybe some day I will meet a woman who will rock my world, both
spiritually and physically. But she won't be some trophy wife to
show how much I've "changed." I know I've changed. Sure, you might
not ever be able to see some flashy example of it. What can I say?
Obedience and belief aren't that impressive-looking. Nor are they
what people really want when they try out Christianity. But if they
really want Christianity, it's what they'll get, because that's what
real change is. I was once dead but now am alive, because of my
faith in Christ. I once wouldn't have even considered all this
crazy "dying to self" stuff, but now, even though it's difficult and
even somewhat frightening, I do it with joy. If that isn't "change,"
I don't know what is. If that isn't hope, then I don't know what is.
And I'm willing to offer that hope to people, and I think Ms.
Gritter is as well.

It's a journey of sanctification, not towards heterosexuality. True,
I'm only a little way down that road, but the good part about that
is that every other living believer is as well, and I can take that
journey with them without feeling like less of a Christian, and we
can look towards our only hope together.


-Jay is a Christian blogger who struggles with SSA he is a college
student, future English teacher, independent fantasy novelist,
hyperactive, music snob, beach bum, reluctant Calvinist, likes guys
but God gets in the way, son of hippies, minarchist, loves dogs,
hates cats, writes random things that people seem to enjoy reading.

http://collegejay.blogspot.com

www.awomanshealingjourney.com Marsha Means M.A. Support and Help for
spouses

www.puredesire.org Dr. Ted Roberts Author Pure Desire and others.
Support for starting a ministry in a church. from Gresham, OR

www.pureheartportland.org Pure Heart Ministries Portland (east side)
Support for the sex addict.

www.epm.org/resources-sexual_purity.htm Randy Alcorn Eternal
Perspective Ministries

www.syrogers.com Sy Rogers Author Lessons Learned. Sy Rogers
Communications.

www.freedomeveryday.org L.I.F.E. Ministries Sex addiction support
groups.

www.faithfulandtrueministries.com Dr. Mark Laaser Author Healing the
Wounds of Sexual Addiction Debra Laaser Author Shattered Vows

www.blazinggrace.org Porn and Sex Addiction resource. MP3 downloads
of Blazing Grace radio show on sexual addiction.

www.pureintimacy.org Focus on the Family. Recovering the Heart of
Sexuality.

www.shelleylubben.com Pink Cross Foundation Former Porn Star. Help
porn stars.

www.prodigalsonline.org Prodigals International

www.cp80.org The CP80 Foundation formulates and advances solutions,
strategies, and initiatives meant to evolve the Internet and offer
parents better choices for protecting their children from unwanted
Internet pornography.

www.sexaddict.com Dr. Doug Weiss Author Sex, Men, and God and others
Heart to heart Counseling in Colorado Springs

www.tuffstuffministries.com Dr. Earl and Sandy Wilson Authors
Steering Clear and Restoring the Fallen from Portland, OR

www.hopeafterbetrayal.com Meg Wilson Author Hope After Betrayal from
Vancouver, WA

www.sash.net The Society of the Advancement of Sexual Health


----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------


Online Discussion Groups for Spouses of Addicts

www.awomanshealingjourney.com - Provides an online forum, as well as
a way to directly contact Marsha Means, MA with your questions for a
$10 fee.

http://women.sexaddict.com/wordpress/ - Provides an online discussion
group for wives of sex addicts through Heart to Heart Counseling
Center.

www.prodigalsonline.org/forum/ - Online discussion group for wives
through Prodigals International.

www.sexaddict.com/Links.html - There are teleconference groups
available for partners of sex addicts run through the Heart to Heart
Counseling Center. This page also gives links to other groups for
partners.

www.settingcaptivesfree.com - Provides online course for wives, click
on "A United Front"



Finding a Support Group For Spouses of Addicts (Portland, Oregon)

www.awomanshealingjourney.com/groups.html

www.puredesire.org/what/partner.asp

www.cosa-recovery.org/face2face.html

www.prodigalsonline.org/Display.asp?Page=PIPGroups

www.freedomeveryday.org/spouses/supportgroups/index.php

by Karen Keen

If only the Church was more like the Exodus Freedom Conference.
Seriously.  There are few places where corporate worship is so
powerful and sincere.  And if the Church had the same kind of
transparency, humility, and authenticity found here it would
transform every congregation.  I wish all Christians could experience
it. This year's conference was held at Ridgecrest Conference Center
in North Carolina. I was tired by the end of the week, but part of me
didn't want to leave last Sunday. I so enjoyed the fellowship.

I originally didn't plan to go.  But, after volunteering with the
youth track at the Love Won Out conference in April, I felt burdened
about the confusion many young people are experiencing regarding
sexuality (both heterosexual and homosexual).  So I decided to
volunteer with Xscape.  This Exodus youth track is for those under
the age of 25.  Over a hundred young people signed up (90 guys and
more than 20 gals).  Most were in their late teens or early 20s.
Every afternoon from 1:30 to 4:30 we gathered for games, speakers and
group discussion.  In the evening we met again after the General
Session. I had a great group of girls who so impressed me with their
transparency and love for God.  They were awesome! Several of them
had the courage to come to the conference by themselves.  And one of
my girls, whose greatest passion is basketball, was told by her
lesbian coach she would be kicked off the team if she came.  She
decided to come anyway, which was no small sacrifice for her.

Getting kicked off the basketball team wasn't the only repercussion
for participating in the Exodus conference.  Keynote speaker Michelle
McKinney-Hammond lost programming on a radio station.  In her address
she said: A man called me before I made the trip out here.  He tried
to convince me not to come and speak at this conference.  I told him
why I wanted to speak and by the end of our conversation, I thought
we were cool . . . but instead . . . he called WGN and I got taken
off their network.  I have been to four Exodus conferences and this
is the first year I have heard of these types of repercussions.  I am
concerned it may be the beginning of a trend as society becomes more
intolerant of ex-gay ministry.  I can't tell you how grateful I felt
to McKinney-Hammond for not allowing herself to be intimidated—for
choosing to come and offer her encouragement to us even though it
cost her something.


Christine Sneeringer
There were several other great keynote speakers, including Anne
Graham Lotz, Jimmy Evans, Clark Whitten, Alan Chambers, Dale Evrist
and Randy Thomas.  My favorite was probably Andy Comiskey.  I heard
more than one person comment later, "He sounds like a prophet."
There was a spiritual depth to his message that put ex-gay ministry
in perspective in light of the greater spiritual reality happening in
the world today.  You can order his talk as well as all the other
keynote addresses and workshops here. Additionally, Marianne Adams
(formerly of the group Sierra) did a wonderful job leading worship.
And, Christine Sneeringer was fantastic as MC. Who knew she was so
funny? She had us laughing all week.


There were many meaningful moments at this year's conference.  One
highlight was being reminded of how much God's Spirit can work in our
lives.  This was impressed upon me through a stunning visible
transformation of a woman I had seen at last year's conference.  I
had never officially met her, but the moment I saw her at this year's
conference I knew something remarkable had happened.  There was a
maturity, confidence and peace that radiated from her that wasn't
there before.  It was like she was a completely different person.
The Spirit's work was so evident that I sensed all of this without
ever talking to her.  I went up to her and said, "I don't even know
your story or anything about you, but the transformation in you is
amazing."  She said with excitement, "I know!"  We later had
breakfast together and enjoyed a great conversation.  God has,
indeed, radically moved in her life in just one year.  I'm excited to
see what he will continue to do in and through her.

Another highlight of the conference was the last night when all the
Xscape participants gathered around a campfire to eat s'mores, sing
songs, and share what God had done in their hearts over the week.  I
wish you could have heard them.  They were an inspiration to me.  One
young man made a poignant point by quoting from Lord of the Rings:

Frodo: I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had
happened.

Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for
them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time
that is given to us.

Despite what the world may say, those at Exodus have decided to
respond to a struggle they wish had never happened by moving ever
deeper in pursuit of God. As another young man said, this struggle is
a gift because it reminds us of our dependency on God and presses us
into greater intimacy with him. My prayer is that God will strengthen
and encourage everyone at this year's Exodus conference and those who
couldn't make it.



-Karen Keen is a former lesbian who is both a freelance writer and an
occasional speaker.  She has taught classes on various topics
including homosexuality, prayer, and end time prophecy.  She has a
particular interest in biblical studies and is currently applying to
Th.M. programs with the intent of pursuing a Ph.D. Karen has a M.S.
in education (counseling) from Western Oregon University and a MA in
exegetical theology from Western Seminary.

Contact: Karen at PursuingGod@...

Karen's Blog http://pursuegod.wordpress.com/

-When I read this I couldnt help but feel he was not just being a
homosexual man having a couple affairs but rather a man struggling
with a sexual addiction or something who happened to be homosexual.
He couldnt help himself that many times? and had to go tell his wife
each time breaking her heart over and over again? Wasnt that enough
the first few times to rethink having continued affairs. Not
rethinking himself being homosexual becasue I understand that is a
differnt story but help himself with just all the affairs he was
having. I dont know if I could have been so strong hearing that over
and over. Just my thoughts on it. Thanks for the posting of these.
It has made me think about things I dont want to think about but
much needed.I always seem to put on the back burner simply becasue I
cant face it I guess. Although it does feel as though some of the
pressure is off me in the way that I always thought it was me. I was
always trying to be a better wife or think it was something I did
that made him not want to have sex with me or have any kind of
intimacy with me. That hurt so bad. Night after night I soaked my
pillow in tears as he layed next to me in dream land. I know he
heard me many times crying into my pillow facing the wall dying just
for maybe just a arm around me, anything!! expecially after I
confronted him but he never seem to care enough to turn over and at
least talk to me or just hold me. Anything!! But dont just let me
cry all night wanting to just die. I realize now that this man wasnt
just gay but he never loved me or acred deeply for me. Something
else Im trying to understand. We were together so long and it was
always that way. What is wrong with me? The worst thing is right now
hes seeing another women. He sais their is no se, no affection none
the less he is seeing another women. Before I was even gone out of
my home he was cheating. Why wasn't a man? I know he is scarred to
death of that info. getting out. but still. He is government for the
past 10 years and before that he was Navy for almost 12 years. So
you know how it is in that situation alot of the time. Unfortuatley
I also put way to much in the sexual aspect of our marriage.
Although when you are not getting it, that is the time you are
always thinking about it! According to Dr. Phil anyway. LOL he knew
this too, that is why he rather ignore me I think rather than have
to talk about it, face up to it or do the dirty deed and have sex
with me, his very own wife! It was such a chore for him. My heart
was breaking. I thought myself do be of average looking even rather
pretty from what they say yet my self esteem went into the gutter
and I though that I had to be the ugliest thing walking for my own
husband not to ever want me! Maybe it was the extra weight I started
putting on. You know all the questiuons and self doubt you fill your
head and heart with, you know? I'm finally trusting myself more to
start dealing with it. I know now that it wasnt my fault although my
self esteem is still very fragil, rather beat-up actually but none
the less I'm working on it. I just cant help but feel although you
cant help them being homosexual in the marriage but what was wrong
with me in the first place to attract a homosexual man or not to see
it. How come I can see it a mile away in any other man or women yet
their I was lying in bed with it every night starring it in the face
and I didnt have a clue? What is wrong with me? Did this happen to
anyone else. Was your husband the only one ou didnt see it in.
Rather masculine for being gay or maybe Im just completley in denial
although no one else knows or mentioned any such thing about it? I
dont know what to think and I DO NOT want to repeat the past. This
actually worries me ALOT! Help!



-- In wivesofexgays@yahoogroups.com, "Laura" <exgaydates@...> wrote:
>
> By Nancy & Tye Gamey (Canada)
>
> She knew before she married him that he struggled with
> homosexuality. She thought she could help him through it. He
thought
> marriage was his ticket to a quick cure.
>
> Nancy: Tye and I met through church. It all started when I broke
my
> foot at a retreat for young adults in Central Manitoba. Tye knew
the
> area so he was part of the entourage that escorted me to the
> hospital to get casted. He was different from the other guys. Tye
> was interested in me as a person, not for my body, and I felt
> respected. I began to love this guy who was so conversational,
> interested, impulsive and excitable.
>
> Tye: The first time I noticed Nancy was when she walked into a
> meeting of church college and career people at my apartment, late,
> in a large fur coat that she had purchased at a second hand shop.
I
> thought, "Here is someone I would like to get to know." I had a
long
> distance relationship with a girl in Alberta that was falling
apart.
> I was frustrated with my roommate. Nancy became a confidante and a
> listening heart for my relational grief.
>
> Nancy: As we spent more time together and I began to fall in love,
> it became apparent that Tye was simply not picking up on these
> vibes. He talked about going off to India on another mission
> assignment, and I was very aware that I was not part of these
plans.
> Finally, I determined that I would have to be blunt if he was
going
> to get the message. By this time we had become very close. "I
would
> like to go to India with you, but I will not go as a single
person."
> All of a sudden the lights went on for him.
>
> Tye: This revelation that Nancy wanted to marry me was a total
> shock. I slowed up on my plans for India. I was thrilled at the
> prospect of marriage, something that I had always wanted. However,
> one nagging hurdle had to be overcome. I had determined that
anyone
> I married would know of my struggle with homosexuality. I had to
> find a way to tell Nancy before our relationship progressed too
far.
> It was a few weeks before I could summon the courage to tell her.
>
> Nancy: I wondered why Tye was taking so long to follow up on our
> conversation about marriage. When he finally told me of his
> struggle, I was surprised but not shocked. The information did not
> change how I felt about him. I was honoured that he would confide
> this in me. I was filled with hope for our relationship. According
> to my personal values and faith, I believed that living out
> homosexual feelings was not God's intent. Consequently, I
correctly
> concluded there must be a way out, although I was very naive as to
> how this could take place and how it would impact our
relationship.
> I incorrectly assumed that marriage would give him the sexual
outlet
> that he needed to go straight, and that I could be the one to help
> him through this.
>
> Tye: I did not know how much information Nancy needed about
> homosexuality. What she didn't know was that I was still having
> occasional sexual encounters. Each time, I told myself it would be
> the last. I thought marriage would be the quick cure for my sexual
> struggles. Just before our wedding on December 28,1981, my fears
> momentarily flooded over me. "I hope I can do this", I thought ,
not
> at all confidently. Then I put it out of my mind and went ahead.
>
> Nancy: As I walked down the aisle my knees were shaking. I thought
I
> was going to faint. "I hope I'm making the right decision to marry
> Tye. It's too late to turn back now". My stomach was in knots. "If
> people only knew what I was doing, they would think I was nuts."
But
> I was in love.
>
> Tye: Three months after we were married I had a sexual fall and I
> knew I had to tell Nancy. When I told her, she was
devastated. "This
> is too much for me to handle, I can't talk about this" was her
> response. I was hurt. Here was the woman I was supposed to share
> everything with and she was not there when I needed support.
Things
> changed between us and we became silent on the subject of
> homosexuality.
>
> Nancy: I felt like my insides were being ripped to shreds and that
I
> could lose my mind. I could hardly keep my mind on my work. All my
> life I had been taught that if I was living a victorious Christian
> life, I shouldn't have problems. Because he had been unfaithful, I
> thought there was something wrong with me. I wasn't a good enough
> wife to keep him sexually faithful. I needed Tye to be overcoming
> this problem. I needed Tye to be loyal to me for me to feel whole
as
> a person. The pain was so overwhelming for me that I went into
> denial, telling myself that if
>
> I just tried harder, prayed more, and trusted God more, everything
> would be okay. For the next five years, which included a three
year
> mission term overseas, I convinced things were getting better, and
> looked for signs in Tye that showed me he was healing. On the
> outside we looked like the perfect couple. On the inside, things
> were eating away at me. I was tense and at times thought I was
going
> crazy. I would get angry at the drop of a hat and deep down,
> although I was not aware of it, I did not trust Tye.
>
> Tye: I had nowhere to run with my struggle. Now I was really
alone.
> Not even Nancy wanted to hear me. On the mission field I continued
> to have occasional encounters. Each time I vowed that it would
never
> happen again. Nancy had reason not to trust me, but I didn't know
> where to go for help. I felt trapped. When we returned to Canada
we
> made preparations to go overseas for a more permanent assignment.
> That took us to the Bible College campus for further training
where
> counselling was available. By this time, Nancy was very
emotionally
> distraught and insisted we go for counselling. It was in the
context
> of counselling, in the fall of 1986, that the truth of the
previous
> five years began to unfold.
>
> Nancy: I began facing the truth of his sexual activities over the
> past five years of our marriage. I also began separating my
identity
> from his struggle. I realized that no matter how good a wife I
was,
> I could not keep Tye from going out and having a sexual encounter.
> This was difficult for me because a large part of my identity and
> self worth had come from the idea that I could love Tye enough to
> help him. Over the course of three to four years after that, I
grew
> enough personally to face the possibility of continued
> unfaithfulness, the repercussions of it, and know I could live
> through it: the rejection, the shame, the stigma of sexual sin,
the
> failure of a broken marriage.
>
> Tye: I learned that the roots of my uncontrollable sexual
behaviour
> was in sexual abuse and peer reinforcement, resulting in poor
> personal boundaries and poor self-esteem. I had never known how to
> fill my relational emptiness with men other than though sex. I had
> to learn how to get past barriers of intimacy with men and learn
how
> to get my same sex emotional needs met in healthy ways. I had to
> learn how to build friendships with heterosexual men, something
that
> was very frightening to me. My sexual falls became less frequent,
> more under control. As time went on, I came to believe that six
> months of sexual sobriety was quite an accomplishment, the best I
> could hope for. Through counselling, Nancy and I became more
honest
> about my sexual falls. One day after sharing with Nancy that I had
> had yet another fall, her response was different. She didn't cry
as
> usual. I told her it seemed as though she didn't care. She
said "If
> I didn't care, it wouldn't hurt so much. I just don't know how
much
> more of this I can take." I was stunned. Suddenly, I realized that
I
> could lose my wife and my children. My denial broke. I realized
that
> it was really up to me. I had to do my part. Six months wasn't
good
> enough. This was the beginning of a long period of sexual sobriety.
>
> Nancy: It was June 1990. We sat on the lawn of the university
campus
> in beautiful San Antonio, Texas. Close by in the stroller slept
our
> five-week-old baby. We were at our first Exodus Conference,
> overwhelmed and excited. I felt that God was calling us to launch
a
> ministry to homosexual strugglers in Winnipeg and Manitoba. This
> conference, I dreamed, would give us the final jump-start that we
> needed. We were touched by the level of honesty and transparency
> with which so many here shared their personal lives and struggles.
> There was an atmosphere of gratitude and awe for the grace of God
> hovering over so much sexual brokenness.
>
> Tye: Two weeks before the conference I had a sexual fall.
> Immediately I had felt intense remorse and knew I had to tell my
> accountability group of two men from the church. Nancy also needed
> to know but I waited until we were at the conference. On the
second
> day, with much fear of her rejection, I sat down with her and told
> her what had happened. At that moment, I knew I could lose her,
but
> I also knew I had to face the truth of her response whatever it
was.
> Facing her was part of the relational consequence of my actions.
> Here was a place where Nancy could find the support she would need
> to handle this information. Not telling her would mean I would
never
> know if she would choose to be with me if she knew everything
about
> me.
>
> Nancy: When he told me I went numb. My mind was reeling. Was this
> really happening to me?Where was God? Had I been wrong in thinking
> He had been leading us into this ministry? Had I been wrong in
> thinking God had wanted me to stay in the marriage and work things
> out? In the following days I reached the lowest point that I had
> ever been in my marriage. However, I had grown to the point in my
> personal life where I was no longer so emotionally desperate that
I
> needed our marriage to work to feel good about myself and as a
> Christian. I had grown in my self identity so that it was no
longer
> absorbed in Tye and in my marriage to him. I told God, "I don't
know
> what you want from me anymore. I am confused, I feel like a fool
for
> having stayed, for having dreamed about ministry, I feel like it
was
> all my agenda. If You want me to leave him I will. I don't know
how
> I'll make it with three small children, but if that's what you
want
> me to do then I know You'll be enough for me. If You want me to
stay
> then You'll have to see me through, because I have nothing left to
> give. Make it clear what You want me to do, because I don't trust
> myself to discern direction from You on my own anymore."
>
> Tye: The rest of the week was turmoil. Through the guidance of
> several people who helped us carry our pain that week, Nancy
decided
> to stay with me. However, we both knew if we were going to go on
> from here, things had to change.
>
> Nancy: The next year was another year of re-construction; a long
> period of celibacy as more issues related to sexual abuse
surfaced,
> new emerging patterns in our sexual relationship, further
deepening
> of communication, and learning a new definition of intimacy. I
know
> that it is only my relationship with God that gave me the will to
> continue in marriage and forgive Tye. If I had to do it over, I
> would not trade what I have gone through for anything in the
world.
> I have learned things about myself and God that I couldn't have
> learned otherwise. My relationship with Tye is deeper and more
> honest than I ever could have imagined with any marriage. I am
> convinced that God has brought us together and has something for
us
> that He could never have accomplished if we were apart.
>
> Tye: I am not proud of my history, but it is evidence of God's
> awesome goodness, grace, and ability to heal and change a life.
> Nancy and I continue to struggle with inherent weaknesses in our
> individual selves and in our relationship. However, the week at
the
> Exodus conference in San Antonio was pivotal for us. While I still
> struggle with lust sometimes when I am tired or stressed, weeks go
> by when I don't even think homosexual thoughts or experience
> temptations. I am in love with Nancy and sexually attracted to
her.
> That is healing for me.
>
> God is using the hope and healing we have found to give the same
to
> others through our story. We thank God for our Christian
counsellor
> who believed change was possible, for our supportive church and
> friends, and for Exodus, and their specialized ministry. In June
> 1993, New Direction for Life Ministries was launched in Winnipeg
as
> a branch office of Toronto under the direction of Tye Gamey. The
> ministry has a specific mandate to equip the church and to
minister
> to the sexually broken.
>
> http://www.exodusglobalalliance.org/theidealmarriagep84.php
>

-Where can I get more info. about this story? Is ther a website or
anything. I saw the address but its regular U.S. mail so was nt
sure. I love the cristian aspect of this story but wonder if it
really could happen. If he can just walk in one day after bible
study and be hetrosexual and chase his wife around. My husband wont
admit it even though after 12 years of knowing him , I know it to be
true. Now x-husband although not yetofficial. Were seperated right
now and will never get back together. Is there any updates on them
and their relationship or any more info at all about this? It was a
while ago so just wondering. Also, what was it that she read in the
library books because Im having alot of trouble finding any info.
about being in this type of situation. Thank God for this group! I
really thought I was alone and the only one. I feel so betrayed
right now, even quite stupid. But betrayed by God as well, although
I feel very uncomfortable saying that because Iam cristian. But it's
true. I always felt that you get married because God put you with
this person that he set it up, it's through his eyes with his
blessing. So what happened? Right now, it's a feeling of how does
life go on? I have a 15 month old baby with this man and a 9 year
old who they actually live with, long story, and it worries me. Not
just because hes gay but he was a horrible father and husband. He
didnt even want these two children to be born and was actually happy
wwhen I lost two others. I should have gota clue, I know. I wish I
could just walk away and never hear from him again which I know
would be so much easier on me but I can't because I have two
beautiful children living with him amd have to talk to him
frequently. Well, thanks for the story. I know it is encouraging for
some and that is worth every thing.

Ellen



-- In wivesofexgays@yahoogroups.com, "Laura" <exgaydates@...> wrote:
>
>
> By Willa Medinger
>
> I grabbed ahold of Alan and beat him with both fists,
screaming, "I
> hate you, I hate you!" God was finally allowing these ugly things
to
> come out of me.
>
> I first got to know Alan when we were in elementary school. We
both
> lived in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood of Baltimore. When
there
> was a Jewish holiday, he was the only Gentile in one class and I
in
> another, so we were thrown together.
>
> I wore glasses and was overweight, but he really liked me. I could
> never understand that. He had a lot of good-looking girls who
liked
> him, but he liked me best of all. We began dating in ninth grade.
I
> remember thinking in my silly mind, "I really don't like him!" But
> that was a defense. It seemed like anytime someone really liked
me,
> I'd say that.
>
> He was so level-headed, always saving for the future. I'd
> think, "What a bore!" But after college when I was working in a
> hospital, I began to see some of the awful realities of life. I
> realized these things in Alan were wonderful characteristics to
keep
> you going through life. I began to love him more and more.
>
> Alan asked me to marry him, and I accepted. Unknown to me, he had
> already been involved in homosexual activities for seven years.
But
> the first two years of our marriage were ideal. We didn't fight;
we
> had a wonderful time. We didn't go through any of the crises we
saw
> many of our friends experiencing. But after our two girls were
born,
> all kinds of things began to come out from my childhood, a variety
of
> insecurities and anxieties. I had a thyroid problem which caused
some
> personality problems. So Alan had two little girls and a wife who
> looked like she was going to go off to an institution. It must
have
> looked overwhelming.
>
> I think it was shortly after our second daughter was born (after
five
> years of marriage) that things really began to go down the drain
> between him and I. It was just before this time that I came to
know
> Jesus in a personal way.
>
> I remember a vision I had one night. I was out in the middle of
the
> ocean on a boat, and I saw the Lord out in the water. He kept
telling
> me to jump. I said, "You know I'm terrified of water. I can't do
it.
> I cannot bring myself to jump off this boat." And he said, "I'll
> catch you." Finally, I jumped and I remember sinking for a long
time.
> Then Jesus pulled me up and out of the water.
>
> I really feel this was the beginning of my life with the Lord. I
> guess He was preparing me for what He was going to take me through
> during the next ten years. I still had no idea of Alan's
involvement
> with other men.
>
> It was within a matter of six months of that vision that life
became
> hell for Alan and I. He was unable to give to me at any level, as
he
> got further into homosexuality. I felt more and more destroyed as
a
> person.
>
> Several years after this, a friend of ours who was homosexual came
to
> live with our family. My response when I found out someone had a
> problem was to go to the library and take out every book I could
find
> on the subject, and set about "curing" the person. So I began to
read
> through 10 books on homosexuality.
>
> As I read, I began to realize that the preconditioning factors
were
> right there in Alan's life. I started looking more closely at the
> things that my husband gravitated to. It was very difficult for me
to
> accept it, but it became very apparent to me that this really was
the
> problem.
>
> I never confronted Alan about it. Perhaps I was afraid of losing
him.
> And I never spoke to anyone else about what I suspected. So I had
> this knowledge in my heart for five years, but never expressed it
to
> anyone. God was the only one I communicated with on any honest
basis
> for those years.
>
> About four months before Alan's healing, I began to attend a
prayer
> group. Unknown to me at the time, most of the women involved had
> alcoholic husbands. As I became more in touch with the Lord,
delving
> deeper into my Bible and prayer, I heard Him say to me, "You have
to
> let Alan go." I had to stop being his mother. I had to stop
building
> a perfect rosey-colored world to cover the mess our lives had
become.
>
> God showed me He was unable to deal with Alan, because I insisted
in
> shielding him from the pain. I realized I was saying, "I can take
> better care of him than God can." It was only a month after I
decided
> to really give him to the Lord that his life was totally changed.
>
> It happened on November 26th, 1974. Before Alan left for a prayer
> meeting where he accepted Jesus into his life, he said, "Say good-
bye
> to me. You'll never see this person again." When he came home that
> night, I knew something had happened. When your husband hasn't
> touched you in two years, comes in after a prayer meeting and
chases
> after you, you know there's been a change! It took a few days for
> Alan to realize how great his healing had been. He knew he had
become
> heterosexual.
>
> He also found that he no longer wanted to smoke or drink. He was
even
> different with the children. But the greatest change was how much
he
> fell in love with me.
>
> About a month later, Alan came to me and said he wanted to talk. I
> could see he was very distressed. I wanted to make it easier for
him,
> so as he began trying to talk, I asked him, "You were gay, weren't
> you?" He was absolutely astonished. He had no idea that I knew.
>
> After that talk, emotions began to surface that I had no idea
existed
> inside of me. I felt like a raving lunatic. The primary emotion
was
> rage. I used to weep for God to take it away, but it grew even
more
> intense.
>
> After church one Sunday, I came home and the feelings were
> uncontrollable. I grabbed ahold of Alan and beat him with both
fists,
> screaming, "I hate you, I hate you!" He was able to just stand
there,
> realizing that God was finally allowing these ugly things to come
out
> of me. I dropped down on the couch in an exhausted stupor for
about 3
> hours.
>
> When I got up, I felt different than I'd felt in years. But rage
> continued to come out of me for another 2-3 years. I also
experienced
> great difficulty with the sexual aspect of our marriage.
>
> But God began healing me. The beginning of the journey to
wholeness
> was to find out who I was. It was something I'd never done before.
> When I was a girl, I became what my mother wanted. Then I married
> Alan and became what he wanted. But I never found myself.
>
> So I began listening to God, to find my identity in Him. When He
> spoke to me about who I was, it would bring tears to my eyes. The
> things He would say were so very wonderful. He was so loving and
> encouraging. That's how the person God created inside of me began
to
> come forth.
>
> I believe a woman finds out who she is by listening to her Creator-
> not to the world around her, or even to her husband. Then some of
the
> tougher steps came in, such as telling Alan when I was upset, when
> something he'd done angered me, when I felt lonely. I had to
honestly
> confront him, and stop
>
> centering my life around him and his needs. I'd always been a
people-
> pleaser, doing things I didn't want to, just so others would think
I
> was wonderful. I began to love Alan, as I began to love myself.
>
> I could finally relate to my husband as a man. I no longer had to
> look at him as my little boy. I didn't have to control him, to
keep
> from being vulnerable. I'd always been afraid of masculine men,
but
> I'm not anymore. The things that have changed in Alan are the
things
> that I love most about him. I love being a woman now, having a
> husband who challenges me to be the best person I can. I think
many
> of the underlying problems in our marriage have been healed.
>
> I have to tell you about another beautiful thing the Lord gave us.
In
> 1976, I became pregnant. The doctor gave some solemn warnings to
us
> about me giving birth to a child at 40. I'd had two miscarriages,
but
> it was an ideal pregnancy from beginning to end. Alan was the most
> wonderful husband during this time. He helped me through every
step,
> and I felt his love so intensely. I can't remember a happier or
more
> healing time in my whole life.
>
> When Steven was born, he was blue for two whole minutes . But the
> anesthetist got him breathing and his brain was not damaged in any
> way. God wanted us to have this child. In my inner knowing, I
heard
> God say to me, "You never have to fear again." Our son was to be a
> sign to me that Alan would never go back to his previous
lifestyle.
> And every time I look at Stevie, I know that I have nothing to
fear.
> It's really beautiful what God has done in our lives.
>
>
> Willa is the wife of Alan Medinger, Director of Regeneration in
> Baltimore, Maryland. Her husband's story of sudden deliverance
from
> homosexuality in 1974 is available through our office. Distributed
by
> Love in Action P.O. Box 753307, Memphis, TN 38175-3307: 901/542-
0250
>

--- In wivesofexgays@yahoogroups.com, "Laura" <exgaydates@...> wrote:
>
>
> By Willa Medinger
>
> I grabbed ahold of Alan and beat him with both fists, screaming, "I
> hate you, I hate you!" God was finally allowing these ugly things to
> come out of me.
>
> I first got to know Alan when we were in elementary school. We both
> lived in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood of Baltimore. When there
> was a Jewish holiday, he was the only Gentile in one class and I in
> another, so we were thrown together.
>
> I wore glasses and was overweight, but he really liked me. I could
> never understand that. He had a lot of good-looking girls who liked
> him, but he liked me best of all. We began dating in ninth grade. I
> remember thinking in my silly mind, "I really don't like him!" But
> that was a defense. It seemed like anytime someone really liked me,
> I'd say that.
>
> He was so level-headed, always saving for the future. I'd
> think, "What a bore!" But after college when I was working in a
> hospital, I began to see some of the awful realities of life. I
> realized these things in Alan were wonderful characteristics to keep
> you going through life. I began to love him more and more.
>
> Alan asked me to marry him, and I accepted. Unknown to me, he had
> already been involved in homosexual activities for seven years. But
> the first two years of our marriage were ideal. We didn't fight; we
> had a wonderful time. We didn't go through any of the crises we saw
> many of our friends experiencing. But after our two girls were born,
> all kinds of things began to come out from my childhood, a variety of
> insecurities and anxieties. I had a thyroid problem which caused some
> personality problems. So Alan had two little girls and a wife who
> looked like she was going to go off to an institution. It must have
> looked overwhelming.
>
> I think it was shortly after our second daughter was born (after five
> years of marriage) that things really began to go down the drain
> between him and I. It was just before this time that I came to know
> Jesus in a personal way.
>
> I remember a vision I had one night. I was out in the middle of the
> ocean on a boat, and I saw the Lord out in the water. He kept telling
> me to jump. I said, "You know I'm terrified of water. I can't do it.
> I cannot bring myself to jump off this boat." And he said, "I'll
> catch you." Finally, I jumped and I remember sinking for a long time.
> Then Jesus pulled me up and out of the water.
>
> I really feel this was the beginning of my life with the Lord. I
> guess He was preparing me for what He was going to take me through
> during the next ten years. I still had no idea of Alan's involvement
> with other men.
>
> It was within a matter of six months of that vision that life became
> hell for Alan and I. He was unable to give to me at any level, as he
> got further into homosexuality. I felt more and more destroyed as a
> person.
>
> Several years after this, a friend of ours who was homosexual came to
> live with our family. My response when I found out someone had a
> problem was to go to the library and take out every book I could find
> on the subject, and set about "curing" the person. So I began to read
> through 10 books on homosexuality.
>
> As I read, I began to realize that the preconditioning factors were
> right there in Alan's life. I started looking more closely at the
> things that my husband gravitated to. It was very difficult for me to
> accept it, but it became very apparent to me that this really was the
> problem.
>
> I never confronted Alan about it. Perhaps I was afraid of losing him.
> And I never spoke to anyone else about what I suspected. So I had
> this knowledge in my heart for five years, but never expressed it to
> anyone. God was the only one I communicated with on any honest basis
> for those years.
>
> About four months before Alan's healing, I began to attend a prayer
> group. Unknown to me at the time, most of the women involved had
> alcoholic husbands. As I became more in touch with the Lord, delving
> deeper into my Bible and prayer, I heard Him say to me, "You have to
> let Alan go." I had to stop being his mother. I had to stop building
> a perfect rosey-colored world to cover the mess our lives had become.
>
> God showed me He was unable to deal with Alan, because I insisted in
> shielding him from the pain. I realized I was saying, "I can take
> better care of him than God can." It was only a month after I decided
> to really give him to the Lord that his life was totally changed.
>
> It happened on November 26th, 1974. Before Alan left for a prayer
> meeting where he accepted Jesus into his life, he said, "Say good-bye
> to me. You'll never see this person again." When he came home that
> night, I knew something had happened. When your husband hasn't
> touched you in two years, comes in after a prayer meeting and chases
> after you, you know there's been a change! It took a few days for
> Alan to realize how great his healing had been. He knew he had become
> heterosexual.
>
> He also found that he no longer wanted to smoke or drink. He was even
> different with the children. But the greatest change was how much he
> fell in love with me.
>
> About a month later, Alan came to me and said he wanted to talk. I
> could see he was very distressed. I wanted to make it easier for him,
> so as he began trying to talk, I asked him, "You were gay, weren't
> you?" He was absolutely astonished. He had no idea that I knew.
>
> After that talk, emotions began to surface that I had no idea existed
> inside of me. I felt like a raving lunatic. The primary emotion was
> rage. I used to weep for God to take it away, but it grew even more
> intense.
>
> After church one Sunday, I came home and the feelings were
> uncontrollable. I grabbed ahold of Alan and beat him with both fists,
> screaming, "I hate you, I hate you!" He was able to just stand there,
> realizing that God was finally allowing these ugly things to come out
> of me. I dropped down on the couch in an exhausted stupor for about 3
> hours.
>
> When I got up, I felt different than I'd felt in years. But rage
> continued to come out of me for another 2-3 years. I also experienced
> great difficulty with the sexual aspect of our marriage.
>
> But God began healing me. The beginning of the journey to wholeness
> was to find out who I was. It was something I'd never done before.
> When I was a girl, I became what my mother wanted. Then I married
> Alan and became what he wanted. But I never found myself.
>
> So I began listening to God, to find my identity in Him. When He
> spoke to me about who I was, it would bring tears to my eyes. The
> things He would say were so very wonderful. He was so loving and
> encouraging. That's how the person God created inside of me began to
> come forth.
>
> I believe a woman finds out who she is by listening to her Creator-
> not to the world around her, or even to her husband. Then some of the
> tougher steps came in, such as telling Alan when I was upset, when
> something he'd done angered me, when I felt lonely. I had to honestly
> confront him, and stop
>
> centering my life around him and his needs. I'd always been a people-
> pleaser, doing things I didn't want to, just so others would think I
> was wonderful. I began to love Alan, as I began to love myself.
>
> I could finally relate to my husband as a man. I no longer had to
> look at him as my little boy. I didn't have to control him, to keep
> from being vulnerable. I'd always been afraid of masculine men, but
> I'm not anymore. The things that have changed in Alan are the things
> that I love most about him. I love being a woman now, having a
> husband who challenges me to be the best person I can. I think many
> of the underlying problems in our marriage have been healed.
>
> I have to tell you about another beautiful thing the Lord gave us. In
> 1976, I became pregnant. The doctor gave some solemn warnings to us
> about me giving birth to a child at 40. I'd had two miscarriages, but
> it was an ideal pregnancy from beginning to end. Alan was the most
> wonderful husband during this time. He helped me through every step,
> and I felt his love so intensely. I can't remember a happier or more
> healing time in my whole life.
>
> When Steven was born, he was blue for two whole minutes . But the
> anesthetist got him breathing and his brain was not damaged in any
> way. God wanted us to have this child. In my inner knowing, I heard
> God say to me, "You never have to fear again." Our son was to be a
> sign to me that Alan would never go back to his previous lifestyle.
> And every time I look at Stevie, I know that I have nothing to fear.
> It's really beautiful what God has done in our lives.
>
>
> Willa is the wife of Alan Medinger, Director of Regeneration in
> Baltimore, Maryland. Her husband's story of sudden deliverance from
> homosexuality in 1974 is available through our office. Distributed by
> Love in Action P.O. Box 753307, Memphis, TN 38175-3307: 901/542-0250
>

Hi, Your story is almost the same as mine. I was married for 10 years to a gay
man. He was and still is in denial. We have been Divorced mosta year.beforethis
marriage I was married for 38 years to a man who cheated most of our married
life. He was a good husband and father in every thing else, but he couldn't be
faithful. My gay husband was suppose to be a good Christian, once was a
preacher, up until we separted he was a small group leader, was very active in
church. Two years before we separted he came down with aids. Thank God I haven't
yet. So concider youself lucky that you didn't get any kind of diease from him.I
stayed with him because he was sick and because I felt it was Gods will for me
to stay. But he distroyed the trust in our marriage. I found out he had been
arrested 4 times for meeting guys in public parks. Even with the evdence in hand
hedenied, long story short, he left and left me to make it on my own. Praise God
I am doing fine. He
  did me a favor when he left. In time you will see he did you a favor. My advice
is to find you a church home, seek God, pray, and God will see you though
everything. In Philippians 4:11-13 the bible said, I have learned to be content
in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty
or in want. I CAN DO EVERYTHING THROUGH HIM WHO GIVES ME STRENGTH. I am living
proff. God allows us to go through trials to strenghten us and to teach us to
depend on him. He has been good on his promise. I have everything I need. I
found out I don't need a man to take care of me. I have been married all my
life. I was 14 when I married my first husband, shorty after my first husband
left me for a younger woman, I married my second husband on the rebound, I
didn't think I could make it on my own. I didn't like being on my own, but God
taught me I'm not alone. God is with me all the time. He will never leave me.
Your jourey will not be easy, but
  seek God, read your bible, pray. He will get you through it. You didn't say if
you are a Christian. If not that is the first thing you have to take care of..
Just pray this prayer. Jesus I need you in my heart. Come into my heart and save
me. Teach me to Love and to obey you. The bible said all you have to do is ask
and you shall receive and believe in your heart. Now accept him in faith. Faith
is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
Hope you well and I will pray for you. God will never, never, leave you. He will
be with you always. All you have to do is reach out to him.



----- Original Message ----
From: Ellen <ellenscusa@...>
To: wivesofexgays@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2008 8:00:18 PM
Subject: [wives of exgays] My husband is gay and broke m,y heart


Hi, my name is Ellen and Im new to the group. Iv recently come to
terms with the fact that my husband of 10 years is gay. I dont even
think he is bi-sexual, just gay. He wont admit to it though but the
signs and all the clues he leaves behind only points in one
direction. We are seperated at the moment and our two children are
with him which worries me also because he has alot of problems than
just being gay. (not that that is a problem, but you know what I
mean) Anways, I feel so brokenhearted and flat out stupid for not
seeing it before or looking into his things earlier. He made our 10
year marriage miserable becasue of it,thats what I'm thinking
anyway. He wont admit to it thoigh. Write now he works for the
government and before that he was in the army serving 10 years. I
had no clue! How cxould I have not seen it! I can point out a gay
man a mile away. I have nothing against gay men I just always know
when someone is. Where did I go wromg? and to think I married him
and had to children with him?!! I feel so cheated, so ripped off and
straight out embaraased of myself for not knowing.Why didnt I see
the signs? What is wrong with me? Not to mention he has a whole lot
of other issues going on and I'm not even the one that wants the
divorce, he is!! WoW! He wont even talk to me about our marriage
ending after all these years you would think I deserve that much. Im
heart broken and very confused. He was very abusive through out the
relationship and I dont know why, do you think its becaise he was
secrtly blaming me and the kids for making him having to stick
around! He is also cheating on me and started after our second son
was born with the babysitter. I was kicked out into the street with
out my new born or any means to take care of myself and he doesnt
care. I have no friends or family that can help me and he knows it.
What the hell is going on. I have gone through one trauma fter
another. I have been with that man for ten years where he would tell
me I was the love of his life and then he just through me away like
trash. Im so broken hearted! Now they sit there and play house. I
cant believe this man that I thought I knew so well could do this to
me, I feel like Im dying inside.Any advise???






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I will be leaving today on vacation, and I'm not sure if Wings is on
vacation or not.  If there is a delay in messages being posted, please
bear with us.  I will be back Sunday afternoon and anything pending
will be posted.

Happy Fourth of July everyone!  I'll be keeping you all in my prayers!

Love,
B

I am sad to know you found us this way.  We can't explain why things
happen to us, or why people do the things they do.  At this point, you
need to only concern yourself with taking care of you and your
children.  Read the previous posts and see where some of us have been
and what we have come through.  It  helps to know you are not alone.

Also look through the Links (the tab is on the left of the screen on
the group page) and will find a great deal of helpful information there.

Take one day at a time.  Feel free to post here anytime you need to
vent or want to ask a question.  We are not an overly active group, but
when you make a post, people do begin to pray for you and your
situation.  We will be keeping you in our prayers!

Love,
B

Hi, my name is Ellen and Im new to the group. Iv recently come to
terms with the fact that my husband of 10 years is gay. I dont even
think he is bi-sexual, just gay. He wont admit to it though but the
signs and all the clues he leaves behind only points in one
direction. We are seperated at the moment and our two children are
with him which worries me also because he has alot of problems than
just being gay. (not that that is a problem, but you know what I
mean) Anways, I feel so brokenhearted and flat out stupid for not
seeing it before or looking into his things earlier. He made our 10
year marriage miserable becasue of it,thats what I'm thinking
anyway. He wont admit to it thoigh. Write now he works for the
government and before that he was in the  army serving 10 years. I
had no clue! How cxould I have not seen it! I can point out a gay
man a mile away. I have nothing against gay men I just always know
when someone is. Where did I go wromg? and to think I married him
and had to children with him?!! I feel so cheated, so ripped off and
straight out embaraased of myself for not knowing.Why didnt I see
the signs? What  is wrong with me? Not to mention he has a whole lot
of other issues going on and I'm not even the one that wants the
divorce, he is!! WoW! He wont even talk to me about our marriage
ending after all these years you would think I deserve that much. Im
heart broken and very confused. He was very abusive through out the
relationship and I dont know why, do you think its becaise he was
secrtly blaming me and the kids for making him having to stick
around! He is also cheating on me and started after our second son
was born with the babysitter. I was kicked out into the street with
out my new born or any means to take care of myself and he doesnt
care. I have no friends or family that can help me and he knows it.
What the hell is going on. I have gone through one trauma fter
another. I have been with that man for ten years where he would tell
me I was the love of his life and then he just through me away like
trash. Im so broken hearted! Now they sit there and play house. I
cant believe this man that I thought I knew so well could do this to
me, I feel like Im dying inside.Any advise???

Hi, my name is Ellen and Im new to the group. Iv recently come to
terms with the fact that my husband of 10 years is gay. I dont even
think he is bi-sexual, just gay. He wont admit to it though but the
signs and all the clues he leaves behind only points in one
direction. We are seperated at the moment and our two children are
with him which worries me also because he has alot of problems than
just being gay. (not that that is a problem, but you know what I
mean) Anways, I feel so brokenhearted and flat out stupid for not
seeing it before or looking into his things earlier. He made our 10
year marriage miserable becasue of it,thats what I'm thinking
anyway. He wont admit to it thoigh. Write now he works for the
government and before that he was in the  army serving 10 years. I
had no clue! How cxould I have not seen it! I can point out a gay
man a mile away. I have nothing against gay men I just always know
when someone is. Where did I go wromg? and to think I married him
and had to children with him?!! I feel so cheated, so ripped off and
straight out embaraased of myself for not knowing.Why didnt I see
the signs? What  is wrong with me? Not to mention he has a whole lot
of other issues going on and I'm not even the one that wants the
divorce, he is!! WoW! He wont even talk to me about our marriage
ending after all these years you would think I deserve that much. Im
heart broken and very confused. Any advise???

The room is open and the pass is hope. I will be on until 8pm

--- On Thu, 6/19/08, Laura <exgaydates@...> wrote:

From: Laura <exgaydates@...>
Subject: [wives of exgays] Sorry-Link
To: wivesofexgays@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, June 19, 2008, 5:30 PM







Sorry this is the link- the end has no slash

http://www.chatzy. com/856081888192


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry this is the link- the end has no slash

http://www.chatzy.com/856081888192

Okay so I have created a chat room, this is the link if there is a
problem with spam I will reset the pass and invite people only. But
for now any one can come in.

http://www.chatzy.com/856081888192/


password: hope

Hey,
 
Well I am a women who left the gay lifestyle so my issues may differ from yours
but that would be a great idea..This site is very easy for starting chats
http://www.chatzy.com/
 
 
--- On Wed, 6/18/08, Jennifer Holt <boopfan76@...> wrote:

From: Jennifer Holt <boopfan76@...>
Subject: Re: [wives of exgays] Re: Ex Gay Mens Chat Room-Tuesday's 8pm
To: wivesofexgays@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, June 18, 2008, 10:50 PM






I would be interested in a chat.

 
 

--- On Mon, 6/16/08, Laura Miers <exgaydates@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Laura Miers <exgaydates@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [wives of exgays] Re: Ex Gay Mens Chat Room-Tuesday' s 8pm
To: wivesofexgays@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 10:39 PM

I think it would be a great thing I would like to hear more feedback from
the group first before going through with something like this. So who
else on the group would be interested in something like this?
&nbsp;
Laura

--- On Mon, 6/16/08, r2sane &lt;no_reply@ yahoogroup s.com&gt; wrote:

From: r2sane &lt;no_reply@ yahoogroup s.com&gt;
Subject: [wives of exgays] Re: Ex Gay Mens Chat Room-Tuesday' s 8pm
To: wivesofexgays@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 10:26 PM

Laura,

We did have a chat for a short while, but it has been a few years
ago. It was just hard for everyone to get together. Those who
participated did enjoy it, and I am certainly not opposed to it if
others would like to participate. However, I am currently in school
and working, so facilitating such a chat would be impossible right
now. Would you be interested in being the facilitator? Just
something to think about. If not, perhaps someone else would like to
be the facilitator. Let me hear some feed back, ladies!

Keeping you all in my prayers!
Love,
B

--- In wivesofexgays@ yahoogroups. com, "Laura" &lt;exgaydates@ ...&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; One of the Mens Yahoo groups called ex gay mens minsitry has a
&gt; weekly chat with members. The regular Yahoo Chat is down but you
can
&gt; do it via your IM messenger and invite those who would like to be a
&gt; part. Being that I am a women I can not join this group but
hopefuly
&gt; some one in this group can start a few other similar chat
&gt; groups...like a womens support group? Anyone here up for it?
&gt;
&gt; Laura
&gt;
&gt; http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/exgaymensm inistry/
&gt;
&gt; HOW TO JOIN THE CHAT
&gt;
&gt; If it's Tuesday, it must be the night for EGMM chat
&gt; Brothers,
&gt;
&gt; It's Tuesday, which means tonight is "chat" time. As many of you
&gt; know, the old "chat" through Yahoo Groups is no more. Let's try to
&gt; make it work, through the Conference feature of Yahoo! Messenger.
&gt;
&gt; We enjoy a great time of fellowship together each week. If you're
&gt; interested in meeting tonight (8:30 EASTERN DAYLIGHT TIME)
&gt; you will
&gt; need to request to be on my Messenger list before then so that I can
&gt; invite you to join with me in the conference. My Messenger ID is
&gt; fourteencubed.
&gt;
&gt; You can get on my Messenger list by bringing up Messenger, clicking
&gt; on Action, clicking on Send an Instant Message, clicking on Other
&gt; Contact, and typing fourteencubed in the blank. If you are not on my
&gt; Messenger list, it will begin the process of asking me if I want you
&gt; on my list (which, of course, I do!).
&gt;
&gt; At chat time, you will see my ID highlighted on your Messenger list.
&gt; Click on my ID and request to join us in the conference. It's as
&gt; simple as that.
&gt;
&gt; Chat has always been such a vital aspect of the group, in our effort
&gt; to move out of isolation and encourage one another. Let's make the
&gt; effort to keep it going.
&gt;
&gt; Garnett
&gt;

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would be interested in a chat.


 
 

--- On Mon, 6/16/08, Laura Miers <exgaydates@...> wrote:

From: Laura Miers <exgaydates@...>
Subject: Re: [wives of exgays] Re: Ex Gay Mens Chat Room-Tuesday's 8pm
To: wivesofexgays@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 10:39 PM






I think it would be a great thing I would like to hear more feedback from
the group first before going through with something like this. So who
else on the group would be interested in something like this?
&nbsp;
Laura

--- On Mon, 6/16/08, r2sane &lt;no_reply@yahoogroup s.com&gt; wrote:

From: r2sane &lt;no_reply@yahoogroup s.com&gt;
Subject: [wives of exgays] Re: Ex Gay Mens Chat Room-Tuesday' s 8pm
To: wivesofexgays@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 10:26 PM

Laura,

We did have a chat for a short while, but it has been a few years
ago. It was just hard for everyone to get together. Those who
participated did enjoy it, and I am certainly not opposed to it if
others would like to participate. However, I am currently in school
and working, so facilitating such a chat would be impossible right
now. Would you be interested in being the facilitator? Just
something to think about. If not, perhaps someone else would like to
be the facilitator. Let me hear some feed back, ladies!

Keeping you all in my prayers!
Love,
B

--- In wivesofexgays@ yahoogroups. com, "Laura" &lt;exgaydates@ ...&gt; wrote:
&gt;
&gt; One of the Mens Yahoo groups called ex gay mens minsitry has a
&gt; weekly chat with members. The regular Yahoo Chat is down but you
can
&gt; do it via your IM messenger and invite those who would like to be a
&gt; part. Being that I am a women I can not join this group but
hopefuly
&gt; some one in this group can start a few other similar chat
&gt; groups...like a womens support group? Anyone here up for it?
&gt;
&gt; Laura
&gt;
&gt; http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/exgaymensm inistry/
&gt;
&gt; HOW TO JOIN THE CHAT
&gt;
&gt; If it's Tuesday, it must be the night for EGMM chat
&gt; Brothers,
&gt;
&gt; It's Tuesday, which means tonight is "chat" time. As many of you
&gt; know, the old "chat" through Yahoo Groups is no more. Let's try to
&gt; make it work, through the Conference feature of Yahoo! Messenger.
&gt;
&gt; We enjoy a great time of fellowship together each week. If you're
&gt; interested in meeting tonight (8:30 EASTERN DAYLIGHT TIME)
&gt; you will
&gt; need to request to be on my Messenger list before then so that I can
&gt; invite you to join with me in the conference. My Messenger ID is
&gt; fourteencubed.
&gt;
&gt; You can get on my Messenger list by bringing up Messenger, clicking
&gt; on Action, clicking on Send an Instant Message, clicking on Other
&gt; Contact, and typing fourteencubed in the blank. If you are not on my
&gt; Messenger list, it will begin the process of asking me if I want you
&gt; on my list (which, of course, I do!).
&gt;
&gt; At chat time, you will see my ID highlighted on your Messenger list.
&gt; Click on my ID and request to join us in the conference. It's as
&gt; simple as that.
&gt;
&gt; Chat has always been such a vital aspect of the group, in our effort
&gt; to move out of isolation and encourage one another. Let's make the
&gt; effort to keep it going.
&gt;
&gt; Garnett
&gt;

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think it would be a great thing I would like to hear more feedback from
the group first before going through with something like this. So who
else on the group would be interested in something like this?
 
Laura

--- On Mon, 6/16/08, r2sane <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

From: r2sane <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [wives of exgays] Re: Ex Gay Mens Chat Room-Tuesday's 8pm
To: wivesofexgays@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, June 16, 2008, 10:26 PM






Laura,

We did have a chat for a short while, but it has been a few years
ago. It was just hard for everyone to get together. Those who
participated did enjoy it, and I am certainly not opposed to it if
others would like to participate. However, I am currently in school
and working, so facilitating such a chat would be impossible right
now. Would you be interested in being the facilitator? Just
something to think about. If not, perhaps someone else would like to
be the facilitator. Let me hear some feed back, ladies!

Keeping you all in my prayers!
Love,
B

--- In wivesofexgays@ yahoogroups. com, "Laura" <exgaydates@ ...> wrote:
>
> One of the Mens Yahoo groups called ex gay mens minsitry has a
> weekly chat with members. The regular Yahoo Chat is down but you
can
> do it via your IM messenger and invite those who would like to be a
> part. Being that I am a women I can not join this group but
hopefuly
> some one in this group can start a few other similar chat
> groups...like a womens support group? Anyone here up for it?
>
> Laura
>
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/exgaymensm inistry/
>
> HOW TO JOIN THE CHAT
>
> If it's Tuesday, it must be the night for EGMM chat
> Brothers,
>
> It's Tuesday, which means tonight is "chat" time. As many of you
> know, the old "chat" through Yahoo Groups is no more. Let's try to
> make it work, through the Conference feature of Yahoo! Messenger.
>
> We enjoy a great time of fellowship together each week. If you're
> interested in meeting tonight (8:30 EASTERN DAYLIGHT TIME)
> you will
> need to request to be on my Messenger list before then so that I can
> invite you to join with me in the conference. My Messenger ID is
> fourteencubed.
>
> You can get on my Messenger list by bringing up Messenger, clicking
> on Action, clicking on Send an Instant Message, clicking on Other
> Contact, and typing fourteencubed in the blank. If you are not on my
> Messenger list, it will begin the process of asking me if I want you
> on my list (which, of course, I do!).
>
> At chat time, you will see my ID highlighted on your Messenger list.
> Click on my ID and request to join us in the conference. It's as
> simple as that.
>
> Chat has always been such a vital aspect of the group, in our effort
> to move out of isolation and encourage one another. Let's make the
> effort to keep it going.
>
> Garnett
>


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]