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Reply Message #957 of 6373 |
Was LW crazy? (how 'bout James Joyce? Bucky?)

--- In wittgenstein-dialognet@y...,
"Jeremy Bowman" <jeremiad@e...> wrote:

> Kirby:
>
> > Look at 'Finnegans Wake' -- clearly the writings of a
> > lunatic right?
>
> -- Absolutely! And that is the reason why practically no one
> on our own planet has read it. (There are many who *pretend* to
> have read it, of course!) I can think of no clearer example of
> the writings of a seriously disturbed mind

OK, I guess I won't fight the archetypes. Genius and madness have
always been closely conjoined. I've said so myself, in an essay
web-published some years back:

Take this word "intelligence" for example. What are its
spectral lines, its signature connotations? Resonance with
bell curves and IQ are obvious, sun and sunlight abound in
its metaphors. Images of eccentricity, ostracism and iconoclasm
shimmer in its corona, as in the cliche about genius and madness
being intimately conjoined.

[ http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/gstwork.html ]

I'll admit to being one of those who hasn't read '... Wake' cover
to cover -- just sampled, read secondary literature about, and heard
a CD with the voice of James himself reading out loud from its
pages (I wonder if I can get that again for the car (just got me
one of them Panasonics with cigarette lighter adapter for wattage)).

I think of 'FW' as 'blarney on steriods' (that's a figure of speech
common to this neck of the woods -- anything that's hyper, super or
wildly exagerated is 'on steroids' (but now I'm free associating
again)). 'FW' is a high bandwidth convergence of signifiers that
puts a lot of energy into that twilight zone of tantalizingly
relevant memes, such that your sense-making faculties are challenged
to weave various dreams from it, almost reflexively. Far out stuff.

Anyway, my not having read it cover-to-cover doesn't keep me from
using 'FW' as a kind of icon. It represents a use of language
that's both remote from more ordinary patterns AND is taken
seriously by many scholars, is acceptable content for university-
based literature courses. I like to place this icon in close
proximity to 'Synergetics' for contrast, 'Synergetics' being a
work I've spent much more time with, and which many dismiss for the
same reason (that the language is so remote). One difference,
perhaps, is would-be readers of 'Synergetics' are more often your
math-science types and not so liberally trained in the humanities,
or are not willing to read it in that light, making the kinds of
allowances the Joyceans might (and some philosophers?).

So yes, you'll see me making this link from time to time, as
I've done here:

When the 876-page "big red book" of Synergetics was
published in 1975 by the Macmillan Publishing Company,
it confounded most readers and was never completely
accepted outside the domain of hardcore Fullerians.

"People couldn't make sense of it, and that still continues
to be a problem," said Kirby Urner, moderator of the
synergetics-l and whose Portland-based firm, 4D Solutions,
is named from an early Fuller text.

"It is multi-disciplinary, and should not be looked at
strictly through math and science," Kirby said. "It's not
the first 'hard' book - _Finnegan's Wake_ [sic] is hard -
but [the humanities] see the geometric figures, think
it's math and ignore it.

[ http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,6689,00.html ]

-- and it's a link on another level as well, in that one of the
major Joycean scholars, Hugh Kenner, author of 'The Pound Era', was
also an early Bucky fan (wrote the biography 'Bucky', as well
as 'Geodesic Math and How To Use It' -- unusual for a humanities-
trained scholar to publish a guide book to a math thicket (but then
that's the point -- it's this C.P. Snow bridge we comprehensivists
try to criss-cross (look, it's doable!)).

The link to LW, again, is re the status of "metaphysical language"
against the backdrop of aesthetic insights and "ways of looking"
embedded in the PI etc.

I think there's an elegant way of converging what I call
LW's "operationalism" (akin to Rorty's "anti-representationalism")
with Fuller's "operational mathemtics" -- signifiers designed to
do work in the context of an internally consistent, syntropic,
conceptual apparatus.

What the PI does is limber up our philosopher muscles such that
we're not so prejudicial when it comes to "knowing the meanings"
of various key terms. Because we've done our homework and dispelled
a lot of those illusions about "private ostensive definitions" which
supposedly keep signifiers anchored to experience.

There's "anchoring" going on in language I'd certainly agree (a kind
of gravitational phenomenon), but nothing so simple as "pointing"
explains it.

Kirby





Sat Apr 21, 2001 7:00 pm

pdx4d@...
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Message #957 of 6373 |
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I say, I say... I always seem to offend everyone whenever I say that "English is the best language there is, or has ever been". But, I mean, I've got a point,...
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... [Richter, Duncan] Wrong, surely. They "divide the world up" more, but what could be meant by saying that one is more precise than the other (unless ...
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... I don't know if you want to use the 'best' word here. It has its advantages, one being its diversity but it is one of the most illogical languages around, ...
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... -- Current English is a mixture of French and German and Icelandic, and (I would say) much richer than either French or German or Icelandic for being a ...
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Hi Jeremy, ... Would that include African-American "English" and the "Eengulisshu" spoken by Japanese high-school kids? Also, I would object to your assertion...
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... -- Absolutely! I'm not familiar with "Eengulisshu", but Black Americanisms have greatly enriched the English language. For example, take the expression ...
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... [Richter, Duncan] Yes, but you might question the grid analogy (I won't here) and, more to the point, are tinier holes necessarily better? If I ...
Richter, Duncan
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... -- English owes its peculiar powers of discrimination not to backroom boffins who make up new words for no purpose, but to groups of people who established...
Jeremy Bowman
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... [Richter, Duncan] Yes but does everyone else necessarily share these purposes? If not the extra words might just be in the way, cluttering up their lives...
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... -- I don't think words "clutter up" lives much. If a word is of no use to us, we simply don't bother to learn it. There are plenty of English words I don't...
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... -- Actually, I'm rather a fan of his. I used to read his column in the NY Times when I lived in the U.S., but only rarely nowadays (online). Steven Pinker...
Jeremy Bowman
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8:49 am

... [Richter, Duncan] True. But your point seems to be that English is better because you can say more in English than you can in other languages. I was...
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I've been following this particular conversation with great interest. I think the "English is bigger" question itself raises the issue of whether English is...
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... -- No doubt, but that hardly diminishes its flexible clarity. And when written English was shackled onto spoken English, I would say it constrained the...
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Jon: English takes all the strength of its flexible clarity from the fact that, at a crucial point in its development, it was simply ignored by the nobility...
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... But how are you going to compare the powers of discrimination in English to the powers of discrimination in other languages if you don't know these other...
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... Maybe those who believe that color is an objective fact in the sense of being physical (wavelength) and independent of the perceiving subject. Exp.:...
Guenter Trendler
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... I'm sorry, but I disagree. I think that a language that doesn't contain any untranslatable terms is fundamentally poorer than one that does. If an idea can...
T P Uschanov
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Apr 20, 2001
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... -- Hmm. I would have thought that translation is facilitated by less abstraction rather than more abstraction. I mean, the less abstraction, the easier it...
Jeremy Bowman
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Apr 21, 2001
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... Pffft. Seems a dubious-to-doofy thesis to me. His writings are cogent enough. Heidegger is way harder to read IMO. I think he was lonely at times, given...
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... Diagnostic Criteria (DSM-IV) for Schizophrenia 1. One month or more, in which a significant portion of time is taken up by F or at least TWO of the...
Guenter Trendler
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Apr 21, 2001
1:02 pm

... ^^^^^^^^ infidelity? I think you've mixed in a DSM criterion for someone in denial. Kirby...
pdx4d@... Send Email Apr 21, 2001
4:07 pm

... -- Absolutely! And that is the reason why practically no one on our own planet has read it. (There are many who *pretend* to have read it, of course!) I...
Jeremy Bowman
jeremiad@... Send Email
Apr 21, 2001
1:47 pm

... OK, I guess I won't fight the archetypes. Genius and madness have always been closely conjoined. I've said so myself, in an essay web-published some...
pdx4d@... Send Email Apr 21, 2001
7:00 pm
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