> Does anyone have a recipe for cookies like gingerbread
> or other roll out cookies? I would need a recipe that
> uses rapadura, honey, agave, or something else along
> those lines as a sweetener. I am less picky about flours

I make all my cookies with freshly milled whole wheat flour and rapadura,
and do not alter the recipe for sugar.  I do adjust the flour, 150 grams of
freshly milled ww flour to 1 cup of white flour in the recipe.   But cup for
cup, you can use rapadura the same as white or brown sugar, so any recipe
would do.  Gingerbread cookies with rapadura sounds lovely.


Anita Woods, CPM <><
www.nekansashomebirth.com

Hi !
My son has extreme reactions to refined flours and sugars. Does anyone have a
recipe for cookies like gingerbread or other roll out cookies? I would need a
recipe that uses rapadura, honey, agave, or something else along those lines as
a sweetener. I am less picky about flours.
Thanks!
Christy
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Hi all,

I plan to make Christmas cookies this weekend using recipes that I've had
success with in the past.  They all use whole wheat pastry flour and either
canola oil or butter for the fat (or both).  Two of the recipes call for
chilling the dough before baking; one of those uses butter and canola oil, and
the other uses just canola oil.  Would there be any drawbacks to chilling the
dough for all of the recipes, as opposed to just those two?  Or should I not
mess with a good thing, since I know they've worked fine (albeit a little flat
in some cases) in the past?

Thanks,

Christie

Will

  I mill on the coarse side because it mixes more easily. After 20 hours of cold
rest, I don't notice any "particle" difference in the finished bread. Did you?
> ---------------------------------------------
The coarse endosperm seems to dissolve in the dough during the cool
conditioning, despite the fact that there is very little mixing and no kneading

- the flecks of bran soften a little but show through in the finished crumb as
small shinny bits - authentic whole grain look I tell my family.

If I presoak the coarse ground grain (with or without the salt in it) I get a
gummy crumb which doesn't really cook properly even though the internal temp is
210, so I've given up presoaking.


> --------------------------------------------
> > Flavor was not as sour as I'm used to but delicate with nice aroma.
> --------------------------------------------
> Doing the cold retard (for gluten development)and hot proof push (for loft)
addresses the "how to get the best rise" issue that you initially posted.
>
> To drive sour notes, you have to compromise a little. I'd try the same overall
approach but add one step. Give the dough a 2 hour 85 degree ferment, after the
S&F's. Then degas < very gently > and shape for final proof (again at 85 F.)
>
> I think that adjustment will keep you in the ballpark for good loft and add a
nice touch of sour.
>
> Will
>
________________________________________________

We both had the same thoughts here - my weekend bake this week was a little
higher hydration and I put in a 2 hr warm ferment before folding had shaping.
(I'll switch the order around next week) - worked a treat - still a nice rise to
the loaf but with more tone to the rye flavour - I think rye likes things a
little more on the sour side.

tks again will

jb

--- In wholegrain-baking@yahoogroups.com, Diane Brown <debunix@...> wrote:

> Gummy crumbs are generally associated with underbaking...

I suspect that the loaves needed to age a bit longer after baking. When I do
100% korn rye pumpernickel, for example, it needs to rest for 4 days before
slicing.

I'm sure your 100% wheat bread needs less time than that, but I bet 24 hours
would fix it. The pictures look fine, there's nothing wrong with dough
development or baking.

Diane Brown wrote:

  > Gummy crumbs are generally associated with underbaking,
  > --diane in los angeles



Diane -

I admit I have not done the extent of experimentation that
you, and others on this list, have. And I don't know how
long your bread casseroles had the cover on.... but, when I
cover my simple Vermont sourdough breads too long, they just
don't come out right. So, after ten minutes, I remove the
cover and let the dry oven heat do its thing. That seems to
be long enough for the oven spring to happen, then they can
bake (usually at a slightly lower temperature) until done.

It's possible that your wet dough in an enclosed environment
couldn't dry out enough, so remained gummy.

In regard to internal temperatures, I remember 190 - 195 for
plain dough, 200 -205 for enhanced. I hope I'm getting the
terminology right.

Robin


--Robin Murphy, in the Northwoods of Wisconsin
http://www.NorthwoodsWeaving.com

I played with the no-knead bread recipe from Jim Lahey's book, My Bread.  I was
disappointed to find that he stopped his own whole-wheat experiments at 25%
wholegrain flour.

To figure out the best water ratio for the whole grain bread, I made four small
loaves, each with 100 grams of a rather coarsely ground whole wheat flour, and
80, 85, 90, and 95 grams of water, plus 0.5 grams of yeast and 2 grams of salt
apiece.  Lahey starts his bread at 75% hydration, but whole grain breads always
require more than whole wheat.  They were baked in identical small pyrex
casseroles (preheated to 450 degrees), to an internal temperature of 205
degrees.

The result?  The highest hydration bread had the largest holes, but all had a
rather gummy crumb.  All made great toast, but were too gummy for ordinary
sandwiches.

<http://www.flickr.com/photos/debunix/sets/72157622943211684/>

Gummy crumbs are generally associated with underbaking, although these may also
have risen too long at the first overnight step.  Still, this brings up a
question:  when working with higher hydration whole grain breads, what internal
temperature do you aim for?  I picked up 195-210 degrees as a basic target from
some breadbaking book a number of years ago (or was it 190-205?  should have
copied that page or bought the book, but I remember feeling like there was
nothing else in it to recommend it), but that seems too low for these breads.


--diane in los angeles

http://www.well.com/user/debunix/recipes/WholeBaking.html
http://www.well.com/user/debunix/recipes/FoodPages.html

--- In wholegrain-baking@yahoogroups.com, "yukondde263" <bell.john.m@...> wrote:

> I didn't give this bread an easy time - the flour was coarse with most of the
bran in big pieces (my grinder is old) - both the rye and the whole wheat
berries were last years crop - very dry ( i don't dampen my grain before
grinding).
---------------------------------------------
I mill on the coarse side because it mixes more easily. After 20 hours of cold
rest, I don't notice any "particle" difference in the finished bread. Did you?
---------------------------------------------
> the 10% batch had a soft feel when folding and shaping the 6% was a little
stiff during stretch and fold but held good tension when shaping the loaves.
--------------------------------------------
My bad... I forgot to mention that you probably should take the hydration up a
percent or two if you plan a long initial retard. You have significantly gluten
development... so the dough will easily support 68% or higher.
--------------------------------------------
> Flavor was not as sour as I'm used to but delicate with nice aroma.
--------------------------------------------
Doing the cold retard (for gluten development)and hot proof push (for loft)
addresses the "how to get the best rise" issue that you initially posted.

To drive sour notes, you have to compromise a little. I'd try the same overall
approach but add one step. Give the dough a 2 hour 85 degree ferment, after the
S&F's. Then degas < very gently > and shape for final proof (again at 85 F.)

I think that adjustment will keep you in the ballpark for good loft and add a
nice touch of sour.

Will

Hi All

Over the weekend I had a chance to try Will's suggestions - the 55 deg 22 hr
dough condition - 3 folds and then push the dough with an 80+ proof for 3 hrs.

I didn't give this bread an easy time - the flour was coarse with most of the
bran in big pieces (my grinder is old) - both the rye and the whole wheat
berries were last years crop - very dry ( i don't dampen my grain before
grinding).


I tried two batches one with 6% (bakers %) sourdough starter the other with 10%.
My starters are 100% hydration.

After 22 hrs at 55 F conditioning the 6% batch had risen 1 1/4 times original
volume  - the 10% batch had risen to 1 1/2 times original volume.

the 10% batch had a soft feel when folding and shaping the 6% was a little stiff
during stretch and fold but held good tension when shaping the loaves.

After 3 hours in the plastic bucket over the heating pad - started at 80 F and
finished at 85 F - the 10% batch was almost over risen the 6% batch was perfect.

I thought the 10% batch would collapse during baking but it surprised me by
rising - not as much as the 6% but still a nice shape.

Crust was crispy without being hard to chew and the crumb structure was lots of
different hole sizes and soft.

Flavor was not as sour as I'm used to but delicate with nice aroma.

  - so there's the trade off

Previous technique - let it double in bulk at 60 F during conditioning and you
get sour sourdough which some people like, however, - final rise is a little
tried, the crumb can be gumy sometimes, the crust can be thick and difficult to
slice or chew.

This technique - condition it cooler with only a partial rise and you get milder
flavour, much better rise during proof and bake with a more upright loaf shape
and an improvement in both crust and crumb texture. More of a french bread
crackle to the crust. Not bad for a rye bread!

tks will

jb

Hi Vicky and Dennis and everyone,
Sorry, I've been away on Thanksgiving holiday.  Dennis, yeah, it's been a tad
warm here, but I kept the starter within the 65 to 70 degree range by keeping a
small bowl of ice in the unheated oven with it (I have an instant read
thermometer that I kept in there with it to help me stay assured it was the
right temp).  It just turned cooler today, a cold front blew through.  So, I'll
be trying it again.  This time with non-softened water :o)

Vicky, I'll let you know in about a week if it worked.  Thanks for the help.

And, Thanks for the tips everyone!

Dee

I forgot about that! I think the King Arthur instructions (or somewhere)
I did read to not use tap water. Chlorine may not help either. I use the
filtered water from our refrigerator and haven't had a problem so I bet
that's a likely source of your problems. Be sure to let us know if you
have success with your changes.
-Vicky

nessiedmf wrote:
>
> Ah hah! Here's a quote about water softeners from ehow.com :
>
> "When the water runs through the water softener, it is filtered
> through zeolite minerals. When it does this, the calcium and magnesium
> are exchanged for sodium ions from the zeolite minerals. This exchange
> of minerals is what makes the water soft. Over time, the zeolite
> minerals are depleted of sodium and need to be recharged. This is the
> reason salt pellets are added to the tank on the soft water system.
> The zeolite minerals are recharged by being soaked in the salt that is
> added to the soft water system. Water softeners typically have a timer
> which automatically begins the process of recharging the zeolite
> minerals. If the tank runs out of salt and is not refilled, the
> machine will not be able to soften the water, as there will be no
> sodium to exchange for the magnesium and calcium. "
>
> So, the water could be too salty for the yeast! I'll have to try the
> untreated water, then. Thanks for the clue!!!!
>
> Dee
>
>

Ah hah!  Here's a quote about water softeners from ehow.com :

"When the water runs through the water softener, it is filtered through zeolite
minerals. When it does this, the calcium and magnesium are exchanged for sodium
ions from the zeolite minerals. This exchange of minerals is what makes the
water soft. Over time, the zeolite minerals are depleted of sodium and need to
be recharged. This is the reason salt pellets are added to the tank on the soft
water system. The zeolite minerals are recharged by being soaked in the salt
that is added to the soft water system. Water softeners typically have a timer
which automatically begins the process of recharging the zeolite minerals. If
the tank runs out of salt and is not refilled, the machine will not be able to
soften the water, as there will be no sodium to exchange for the magnesium and
calcium. "

So, the water could be too salty for the yeast!  I'll have to try the untreated
water, then.  Thanks for the clue!!!!

Dee

Hi John,

Nope, not using chlorinated water.  We live in the country and our water is
ground water, pumped up by a well, filtered, and then run through a water
softener.  However, you've brought up an excellent point.  Here is how the water
comes into our house from the ground:

The well pumps it up, it runs through a filter, then runs through a water
softener, then comes out of our fawcet.

I've been using the water that comes from the fawcet.  BUT, we do have one
spigot that's between the filter and the softener that would allow me to get
water before it goes through the softener.  Perhaps that's the magic key!  What
do you think?

Dee



John Long wrote:
>
> Are you using tap water. Sometimes the chlorine in tap water kills the
critters in startwers. John, Fl.
>

That sounds like a cool way that I've never heard of before (then again I'm sort
of new to sourdough, so it's not surprising).

Thanks!


--- In wholegrain-baking@yahoogroups.com, "Will" <waller_will@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In wholegrain-baking@yahoogroups.com, "nessiedmf" <nessie@> wrote:
> >
> > ...But, alas, I fed it again last night as the instructions said, and still
no bubbles.  It croaked.
>
> You might try doing it with rye. I've NEVER had a rye starter fail.
>
> Drop dead easy, extremely low level of effort:
>
> 1) Get a half pound of rye berries at Whole Foods. Seventy cents.
> 2) Mill 3 tablespoons in spice mill.
> 3) Add water to resulting rye-meal to make a small dough ball.
> 4) Roll the dough ball in AP flour to keep the surface clean and dry, store in
covered glass jar. 60 to 75 F. is fine.
> 5) Every two days, peel the dry surface off, knead remainder with more rye
meal and water. Keep dough ball small, the size of a small lime is about right.
> 6) You should have a good, cidery smelling, starter after 4 cycles.
>
> This starter can be subsequently maintained on any flour.
>

--- In wholegrain-baking@yahoogroups.com, "nessiedmf" <nessie@...> wrote:
>
> ...But, alas, I fed it again last night as the instructions said, and still no
bubbles.  It croaked.

You might try doing it with rye. I've NEVER had a rye starter fail.

Drop dead easy, extremely low level of effort:

1) Get a half pound of rye berries at Whole Foods. Seventy cents.
2) Mill 3 tablespoons in spice mill.
3) Add water to resulting rye-meal to make a small dough ball.
4) Roll the dough ball in AP flour to keep the surface clean and dry, store in
covered glass jar. 60 to 75 F. is fine.
5) Every two days, peel the dry surface off, knead remainder with more rye meal
and water. Keep dough ball small, the size of a small lime is about right.
6) You should have a good, cidery smelling, starter after 4 cycles.

This starter can be subsequently maintained on any flour.

 

Thank you for the offer, but I'm just north of the border of Mexico, last time I checked that was pretty far from Wisconsin. :o)

It's still pretty warm here, and I may try again to make my own starter once I get back from a Thanksgiving trip. Maybe the weather will be cooler...but then again, buying the starter already started is pretty tempting. I'll have to think about it.

Thanks!
Dee

--- In wholegrain-baking@yahoogroups.com, Vicky Coulter <vacoulter@...> wrote:
>
> In the past I have started some on my own but it sure doesn't sound like
> you're having luck with that. King Art sells 2 different types and I
> got the classic one. I've been happy with it ever since. If you're in
> Wisconsin, I'll send you some of mine!
>

Thank you for the offer, but I'm just north of the border of Mexico, last time I
checked that was pretty far from Wisconsin. :o)

It's still pretty warm here, and I may try again to make my own starter once I
get back from a Thanksgiving trip.  Maybe the weather will be cooler...but then
again, buying the starter already started is pretty tempting.  I'll have to
think about it.

Thanks!
Dee

--- In wholegrain-baking@yahoogroups.com, Vicky Coulter <vacoulter@...> wrote:
>
> In the past I have started some on my own but it sure doesn't sound like
> you're having luck with that.  King Art sells 2 different types and I
> got the classic one.  I've been happy with it ever since.  If you're in
> Wisconsin, I'll send you some of mine!
>

 

I followed Peter Reinhart's instructions, discarding half only when his instructions said to. But, alas, I fed it again last night as the instructions said, and still no bubbles. It croaked. Even though it smells like it ought to, it just doesn't have any bubbly action.

The King Arthur Flour sourdough sounds like a good idea. I think perhaps that there are some types of wild yeast that are more virulent than others. Maybe the type that was in my starter was one that couldn't withstand the process of becoming sourdough starter.

Thanks for the King Arthur sourdough starter idea! I didn't know that they sold that. I'll have to try it!

Dee

--- In wholegrain-baking@yahoogroups.com, Vicky Coulter <vacoulter@...> wrote:
>
> I bought my starter from King Arthur Flour. The initial start up is
> putzy (see: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/tips/sourdough-tips.html) but
> once it's going, all I do is use it and feed the remaining 1 c flour,
> 1/2 c. water. Take a look at the starter instructions above. That
> worked for me I'm wondering if you're discarding half of the starter as
> you go through your phases. I remember thinking that if I don't
> discard, it'll mean I have THAT much more starter. That was a BAD idea
> as the fermenting smell got worse and worse. Then it was explained to
> me that the organism need the flour and water to feed on and if there
> are too many organisms (i.e. I don't discard half) then the little
> buggers don't get enough to eat and all suffer. Since I've discarded
> half, that works. but I don't think your problem is with the starter
> once it's going - you're having trouble getting it going. Note that
> even the King Arthur site mentions that the bubbling will quiet down.
>
> -Vicky
>
> nessiedmf wrote:
> >
> >
> > The instructions have me feeding and stirring it once a day for 5
> > days, and it gives specific amounts which I've been following and I've
> > been diligently watching the temp, too. The book says to keep it
> > between 65 and 70 degrees, and I've stuck within 2 degrees of that
> > range the entire time the majority of the time being within the temps
> > he gives. There's nothing that the book says that needs to be done
> > between feedings while getting it started.
> >
> > --- In wholegrain-baking@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:wholegrain-baking%40yahoogroups.com>, Vicky Coulter
> > <vacoulter@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I believe so. I don't have the book you mention but I make sour dough
> > > bread weekly using a starter I began about 1 1/2 years ago. Have you
> > > stirred it? How long do your instructions say to leave it? Usually
> > > it's when it's actively bubbling that you use it to make bread, taking
> > > however much you need, feeding the rest with flour and water and
> > letting
> > > that sit in a warm spot for 8 hours or so before putting it in the
> > fridge.
> > >
> > > nessiedmf wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I bought Peter Reinhart's Crust and Crumb book so that I could make a
> > > > loaf of San Francisco-style sourdough. Normally I only make whole
> > > > grain breads, but I wanted to try the San Francisco-style sourdough
> > > > this time.
> > > >
> > > > I'm working on making the barm, pages 74 & 75. During the First,
> > > > Second, and part of the Third day of establishing this barm I could
> > > > tell that the yeast was bubbling a bit, but now it's well into the
> > > > Fourth day and I haven't seen any bubbles in the mix for about a day
> > > > now. Perhaps only the thinnest layer of tiny bubbles are at the
> > top of
> > > > the yellowy watery hooch that has risen to the top. It smells sour,
> > > > and I don't see any discoloration (no grey or black), but I'm
> > > > discouraged because there isn't the bubbly activity that I'd
> > > > anticipated. Is this normal?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

I followed Peter Reinhart's instructions, discarding half only when his
instructions said to.  But, alas, I fed it again last night as the instructions
said, and still no bubbles.  It croaked.  Even though it smells like it ought
to, it just doesn't have any bubbly action.

The King Arthur Flour sourdough sounds like a good idea.  I think perhaps that
there are some types of wild yeast that are more virulent than others.  Maybe
the type that was in my starter was one that couldn't withstand the process of
becoming sourdough starter.

Thanks for the King Arthur sourdough starter idea!  I didn't know that they sold
that.  I'll have to try it!

Dee

--- In wholegrain-baking@yahoogroups.com, Vicky Coulter <vacoulter@...> wrote:
>
> I bought my starter from King Arthur Flour.  The initial start up is
> putzy (see: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/tips/sourdough-tips.html) but
> once it's going, all I do is use it and feed the remaining  1 c flour,
> 1/2 c. water.  Take a look at the starter instructions above.  That
> worked for me  I'm wondering if you're discarding half of the starter as
> you go through your phases.  I remember thinking that if I don't
> discard, it'll mean I have THAT much more starter.  That was a BAD idea
> as the fermenting smell got worse and worse.  Then it was explained to
> me that the organism need the flour and water to feed on and if there
> are too many organisms (i.e. I don't discard half) then the little
> buggers don't get enough to eat and all suffer.  Since I've discarded
> half, that works.  but I don't think your problem is with the starter
> once it's going - you're having trouble getting it going.  Note that
> even the King Arthur site mentions that the bubbling will quiet down.
>
> -Vicky
>
> nessiedmf wrote:
> >
> >
> > The instructions have me feeding and stirring it once a day for 5
> > days, and it gives specific amounts which I've been following and I've
> > been diligently watching the temp, too. The book says to keep it
> > between 65 and 70 degrees, and I've stuck within 2 degrees of that
> > range the entire time the majority of the time being within the temps
> > he gives. There's nothing that the book says that needs to be done
> > between feedings while getting it started.
> >
> > --- In wholegrain-baking@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:wholegrain-baking%40yahoogroups.com>, Vicky Coulter
> > <vacoulter@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I believe so. I don't have the book you mention but I make sour dough
> > > bread weekly using a starter I began about 1 1/2 years ago. Have you
> > > stirred it? How long do your instructions say to leave it? Usually
> > > it's when it's actively bubbling that you use it to make bread, taking
> > > however much you need, feeding the rest with flour and water and
> > letting
> > > that sit in a warm spot for 8 hours or so before putting it in the
> > fridge.
> > >
> > > nessiedmf wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I bought Peter Reinhart's Crust and Crumb book so that I could make a
> > > > loaf of San Francisco-style sourdough. Normally I only make whole
> > > > grain breads, but I wanted to try the San Francisco-style sourdough
> > > > this time.
> > > >
> > > > I'm working on making the barm, pages 74 & 75. During the First,
> > > > Second, and part of the Third day of establishing this barm I could
> > > > tell that the yeast was bubbling a bit, but now it's well into the
> > > > Fourth day and I haven't seen any bubbles in the mix for about a day
> > > > now. Perhaps only the thinnest layer of tiny bubbles are at the
> > top of
> > > > the yellowy watery hooch that has risen to the top. It smells sour,
> > > > and I don't see any discoloration (no grey or black), but I'm
> > > > discouraged because there isn't the bubbly activity that I'd
> > > > anticipated. Is this normal?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

 

The instructions have me feeding and stirring it once a day for 5 days, and it gives specific amounts which I've been following and I've been diligently watching the temp, too. The book says to keep it between 65 and 70 degrees, and I've stuck within 2 degrees of that range the entire time the majority of the time being within the temps he gives. There's nothing that the book says that needs to be done between feedings while getting it started.

--- In wholegrain-baking@yahoogroups.com, Vicky Coulter <vacoulter@...> wrote:
>
> I believe so. I don't have the book you mention but I make sour dough
> bread weekly using a starter I began about 1 1/2 years ago. Have you
> stirred it? How long do your instructions say to leave it? Usually
> it's when it's actively bubbling that you use it to make bread, taking
> however much you need, feeding the rest with flour and water and letting
> that sit in a warm spot for 8 hours or so before putting it in the fridge.
>
> nessiedmf wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I bought Peter Reinhart's Crust and Crumb book so that I could make a
> > loaf of San Francisco-style sourdough. Normally I only make whole
> > grain breads, but I wanted to try the San Francisco-style sourdough
> > this time.
> >
> > I'm working on making the barm, pages 74 & 75. During the First,
> > Second, and part of the Third day of establishing this barm I could
> > tell that the yeast was bubbling a bit, but now it's well into the
> > Fourth day and I haven't seen any bubbles in the mix for about a day
> > now. Perhaps only the thinnest layer of tiny bubbles are at the top of
> > the yellowy watery hooch that has risen to the top. It smells sour,
> > and I don't see any discoloration (no grey or black), but I'm
> > discouraged because there isn't the bubbly activity that I'd
> > anticipated. Is this normal?
> >
> >
>

The instructions have me feeding and stirring it once a day for 5 days, and it
gives specific amounts which I've been following and I've been diligently
watching the temp, too.  The book says to keep it between 65 and 70 degrees, and
I've stuck within 2 degrees of that range the entire time the majority of the
time being within the temps he gives.  There's nothing that the book says that
needs to be done between feedings while getting it started.

--- In wholegrain-baking@yahoogroups.com, Vicky Coulter <vacoulter@...> wrote:
>
> I believe so.  I don't have the book you mention but I make sour dough
> bread weekly using a starter I began about 1 1/2 years ago.  Have you
> stirred it?  How long do your instructions say to leave it?  Usually
> it's when it's actively bubbling that you use it to make bread, taking
> however much you need, feeding the rest with flour and water and letting
> that sit in a warm spot for 8 hours or so before putting it in the fridge.
>
> nessiedmf wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I bought Peter Reinhart's Crust and Crumb book so that I could make a
> > loaf of San Francisco-style sourdough. Normally I only make whole
> > grain breads, but I wanted to try the San Francisco-style sourdough
> > this time.
> >
> > I'm working on making the barm, pages 74 & 75. During the First,
> > Second, and part of the Third day of establishing this barm I could
> > tell that the yeast was bubbling a bit, but now it's well into the
> > Fourth day and I haven't seen any bubbles in the mix for about a day
> > now. Perhaps only the thinnest layer of tiny bubbles are at the top of
> > the yellowy watery hooch that has risen to the top. It smells sour,
> > and I don't see any discoloration (no grey or black), but I'm
> > discouraged because there isn't the bubbly activity that I'd
> > anticipated. Is this normal?
> >
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Hi,

I bought Peter Reinhart's Crust and Crumb book so that I could make a loaf of San Francisco-style sourdough. Normally I only make whole grain breads, but I wanted to try the San Francisco-style sourdough this time.

I'm working on making the barm, pages 74 & 75. During the First, Second, and part of the Third day of establishing this barm I could tell that the yeast was bubbling a bit, but now it's well into the Fourth day and I haven't seen any bubbles in the mix for about a day now. Perhaps only the thinnest layer of tiny bubbles are at the top of the yellowy watery hooch that has risen to the top. It smells sour, and I don't see any discoloration (no grey or black), but I'm discouraged because there isn't the bubbly activity that I'd anticipated. Is this normal?

Hi,

I bought Peter Reinhart's Crust and Crumb book so that I could make a loaf of
San Francisco-style sourdough.  Normally I only make whole grain breads, but I
wanted to try the San Francisco-style sourdough this time.

I'm working on making the barm, pages 74 & 75.  During the First, Second, and
part of the Third day of establishing this barm I could tell that the yeast was
bubbling a bit, but now it's well into the Fourth day and I haven't seen any
bubbles in the mix for about a day now.  Perhaps only the thinnest layer of tiny
bubbles are at the top of the yellowy watery hooch that has risen to the top. 
It smells sour, and I don't see any discoloration (no grey or black), but I'm
discouraged because there isn't the bubbly activity that I'd anticipated.  Is
this normal?