At 10:10 AM 12/28/98 -0800, you wrote:
>What do you feel about this?

Sounds good to me (though extra work for you).  I was wondering how
relevant some of it was....was scared I was totally missing the point. 8-)

I've changed the list to be a moderated list, for the time being, which
means I get a look at messages before they're sent out to everyone else
on the list.

Sorry, but it seems to be necessary at the moment. The list is for the
discussion of Web art and for postings of interesting URL's relating to
webart, that sort of thing. I will delete messages, for now, that have
no strong relevance to webart.

Sorry if you've been getting email that was just not relevant to the
list.

What do you feel about this?

Happy new year,
Jim Andrews

Vertical Tinker Toy posted intertextually at
http://members.home.net/trbell/vertical.htm
and linked to TinkerNet:

> From: David Knoebel (clkpoet@...), USA
>       Ted Warnell (warnell@...), Canada
>
> You are invited to participate in an on-going project celebrating
> international communication and creativity on the World Wide Web!
>
> Deadline for participation: O P E N
>
> TinkerNet
>
> An international Web art project by new media artists David Knoebel
> and Ted Warnell. The goal of the project is to create a linked body
> of works by as many participants as possible.
>
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>
>   T i n k e r N e t
>
>   This is an open-ended work whose nodes and branches extend in many
>   directions through the World Wide Web. It began in December 1998
>   with a collaboration between Ted Warnell and David Knoebel.
>
>   The TinkerNet project involves (theoretically) an infinite number
>   of artist-participants. Each artist takes an idea from a participating
>   Web site, re-invents it on his or her own site, then invites others to
>   do the same at their own sites. A single participant may participate
>   more than once provided a new work is created each time.
>
>   To connect here, send me an e-mail (clkpoet@...) with your name,
>   or some other identifier, and your work's URL. I'll add this information
>   to my link list. Your piece should include a link back to mine and a
>   provision for links forward to your future partners' sites.
>
>     - David Knoebel
>
>   ///
>
> T E R M S
>
>   TinkerNet - think 'toy'... play with it!
>   Source Partner - from which your work is derived.
>   Partner - whose work is derived from yours.
>
> N O T E S
>
>   You 'borrow' something, anything,
>   e.g., color, idea, code, name, text, image, sound,
>   or *any* concept/content from your Source Partner.
>
>     The borrowed source material becomes an influence
>     for your work -- you are free (and encouraged) to
>     interpret the means/meaning of this.
>
>   You create your own work and link back to your
>   Source Partner. You then become a Source Partner
>   for others, i.e., your Partner(s).
>
>   David and I are using a navigation bar with our
>   works to link back/forward. Here is a sample:
>
>   <      ?      YOUR NAME      >
>
>   |      |          |          |
>   |      |          |          Forward links your Partner(s) TinkerNet
>   |      |          |          page or your own 'Partner(s) Link Page'
>   |      |          |
>   |      |          Your name, as you wish. A link to your primary
>   |      |          home page (outside TinkerNet) is recommended
>   |      |
>   |      Optional. Can be 'About' or 'Credits' or recipes... :)
>   |
>   Required link back to your Source Partner TinkerNet page
>
>   As noted, this is just a sample, and you are free to realize it all
>   as required for your purpose. You can add other 'buttons' (see David)
>   or no ? or > or more > or whatever. Your name needn't be a link, but
>   should connect to *outside* the TinkerNet if it is linked.
>
>     You will have only one < Source Partner from which your work is
>     derived, but can have none, one, or any number of Partners whose
>     work is derived from yours.
>
>   You can participate as often as you like provided a new work
>   is created for each participation. Obviously, you should not
>   use yourself as a source...
>
> If you like to work to a theme, David and I have worked with the
> idea, 'how do you say thank you'. You are free to continue with
> this theme, or not, as you wish.
>
>   The goal is to build a labrynth of interconnected works with
>   participation by as many artists as possible -- and to have
>   fun with it. I cordially invite you to look in, learn more,
>   and hope you will join us in the TinkerNet celebration.
>
>     - Ted Warnell
>
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>
> You are invited to participate in an on-going project celebrating
> international communication and creativity on the World Wide Web:
>
>                        TinkerNet - GRID01
>   http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dknoebel/grid01.html
>                        David Knoebel (clkpoet@...)
>
>                        TinkerNet - THX
>   http://www3.memlane.com/warnell/thx.htm
>                        Ted Warnell (warnell@...)
>
> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
> Listmasters and friends, please forward this notice. With thanks.


--
//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\
OOOPSY     \///\\\/\///\\\/                 <><>,...,.,
WHOOPS J    K  JOVE BY  HHH            ZOOOOZ    ZEUS'WRATHHTARW
  LLLL  STOPG          [    EMPTY                             ] SPACER

index of online work at http://members.home.net/trbell
essays:  http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/gloom.htm

okay
the globe is bursting
tired laying
on the cutting edge
we
become
the role
of tinkers

lets fill
the holes
lets break
the poles

it is rush hour on the tinker.net

http://members.tripod.com/~repoem/tinker/ty.html

who is the neXt

crossing human feelings

?


reiner

Ted Warnell wrote:

> Listmasters and friends, please forward this notice. With thanks.
>
> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
> From: David Knoebel (clkpoet@...), USA
>       Ted Warnell (warnell@...), Canada
>
> You are invited to participate in an on-going project celebrating
> international communication and creativity on the World Wide Web!
>
> Deadline for participation: O P E N
>
> TinkerNet
>
> An international Web art project by new media artists David Knoebel
> and Ted Warnell. The goal of the project is to create a linked body
> of works by as many participants as possible.
>
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>
>   T i n k e r N e t
>
>   This is an open-ended work whose nodes and branches extend in many
>   directions through the World Wide Web. It began in December 1998
>   with a collaboration between Ted Warnell and David Knoebel.
>
>   The TinkerNet project involves (theoretically) an infinite number
>   of artist-participants. Each artist takes an idea from a participating
>   Web site, re-invents it on his or her own site, then invites others to
>   do the same at their own sites. A single participant may participate
>   more than once provided a new work is created each time.
>
>   To connect here, send me an e-mail (clkpoet@...) with your name,
>   or some other identifier, and your work's URL. I'll add this information
>   to my link list. Your piece should include a link back to mine and a
>   provision for links forward to your future partners' sites.
>
>     - David Knoebel
>
>   ///
>
> T E R M S
>
>   TinkerNet - think 'toy'... play with it!
>   Source Partner - from which your work is derived.
>   Partner - whose work is derived from yours.
>
> N O T E S
>
>   You 'borrow' something, anything,
>   e.g., color, idea, code, name, text, image, sound,
>   or *any* concept/content from your Source Partner.
>
>     The borrowed source material becomes an influence
>     for your work -- you are free (and encouraged) to
>     interpret the means/meaning of this.
>
>   You create your own work and link back to your
>   Source Partner. You then become a Source Partner
>   for others, i.e., your Partner(s).
>
>   David and I are using a navigation bar with our
>   works to link back/forward. Here is a sample:
>
>   <      ?      YOUR NAME      >
>
>   |      |          |          |
>   |      |          |          Forward links your Partner(s) TinkerNet
>   |      |          |          page or your own 'Partner(s) Link Page'
>   |      |          |
>   |      |          Your name, as you wish. A link to your primary
>   |      |          home page (outside TinkerNet) is recommended
>   |      |
>   |      Optional. Can be 'About' or 'Credits' or recipes... :)
>   |
>   Required link back to your Source Partner TinkerNet page
>
>   As noted, this is just a sample, and you are free to realize it all
>   as required for your purpose. You can add other 'buttons' (see David)
>   or no ? or > or more > or whatever. Your name needn't be a link, but
>   should connect to *outside* the TinkerNet if it is linked.
>
>     You will have only one < Source Partner from which your work is
>     derived, but can have none, one, or any number of Partners whose
>     work is derived from yours.
>
>   You can participate as often as you like provided a new work
>   is created for each participation. Obviously, you should not
>   use yourself as a source...
>
> If you like to work to a theme, David and I have worked with the
> idea, 'how do you say thank you'. You are free to continue with
> this theme, or not, as you wish.
>
>   The goal is to build a labrynth of interconnected works with
>   participation by as many artists as possible -- and to have
>   fun with it. I cordially invite you to look in, learn more,
>   and hope you will join us in the TinkerNet celebration.
>
>     - Ted Warnell
>
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>
> You are invited to participate in an on-going project celebrating
> international communication and creativity on the World Wide Web:
>
>                        TinkerNet - GRID01
>   http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dknoebel/grid01.html
>                        David Knoebel (clkpoet@...)
>
>                        TinkerNet - THX
>   http://www3.memlane.com/warnell/thx.htm
>                        Ted Warnell (warnell@...)
>
> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
> Listmasters and friends, please forward this notice. With thanks.

"Mr. Jim Nasium" wrote:

> From: "Mr. Jim Nasium" <gymart@...>
>
>                               The Brown Coat Box
>
>            I just hope all of you reading it,
>    have as happy a Christmas, as mine now is...
>               Merry Christmas to you all!
>                     Jim Nasium
>
>
> Thanks, Jim, for the beautiful story.

Merry Christmas!

beth

Tom Purdue wrote:

> From: Tom Purdue <tompur@...>
>
> Hear is a script I once wrote for a one and a half minute movie:
>
> The format will be a little weird . . . unconventional
>
> Tom,

This sounds very interesting to me, although I cannot get the full feel for it
in
my mind, as I am not familar with all the music.

Looking forward to more of your work....

beth

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Peace,
>
> Tom
>

Hear is a script I once wrote for a one and a half minute movie:

The format will be a little weird . . . unconventional

CAMERA is first
  TIME LAPSE is second
   AUDIO is third

Marbles and Me
~

Darkness
  :00-:02
   Silence


A small light begins in the bottom right hand corner and grows slowly to
fill entire  screen with white.  Marbles roll across the screen from the
top left hand corner and  stop to spell, "Marbles and Me"
  :02-:10
   Music fades in and holds under–beginning of, "Corelli: Concerto Grosso in D"


Dissolve into a CU (close up) of a bachelor's button flower from the top,
so that you can see a blurry background of dirt and gravel – in the gravel
is a blue marble.  Small child's hand moves down and picks up the blue
marble – Camera adjusts focus to show blue marble as child picks it up.
  :10-:20
   Sound FX: low rustling sound


Cut to a MS (medium shot) of small boy getting on his bicycle and pedaling
up the hill.
  :20-:25
   Small boy's voice (whispered): I found something today that tells me just
what it means to be full, restless, and happy.  What it means to be me.


Cut to a CU of a glass jar with a metal lid. The jar is full of
multi-colored marbles, and it sits on top of a wooden table. Boy's hand
moves in from the left, and grabs the jar.
  :25-:28
   Music volume raises slightly
   Small boy's voice (whispered): What you think you are . . .


Cut to an overhead MS of the boy opening the jar of marbles.  The boy opens
the semi-stuck jar and loses his grip letting the marbles spill over the
floor, Film speed changes to half speed until the marbles hit the ground.
  :28-:36
   sound FX: beeping of a heart monitor


Camera moves to a wider MS and shows the marbles scattering to all ends of
the room.  The boy stays in the same position and watches the marbles as
they roll.
  :36-:40
   Music stops when the boy loses his grip
   Sound FX: flatline sound of a heart monitor


Cut to a CU of a first shot of the boy, on his knees, pushing some stray
marbles into the center of the room.
  :40-:42
   No music
   Natural sound FX of boy pushing marbles


Cut to a CU of a second shot of the boy, crouching with his knees bent
inward, pushing the marbles into the center of the room.
  :42-:44
   Natural sound FX of boy pushing marbles


Dissolve into a MS of the boy sitting to the side of a pile of marbles.
The boy sits for four seconds contemplating the marbles.  The boy changes
his position from sitting to being curled up by the pile of marbles–making
himself round like he was a marble.
  :44-:52
   Sound FX: ticking clock


Cut to an ECU (extreme close up) of the boys face pressed against the floor
looking at the marbles.  The camera's focus begins on the boy's face and
then moves to the marbles.
  :52-:54
   Small boy's voice (normal volume): and what you are.


Cut back to the MS of the boy crouching.  The boy gets up and runs out of
the shot.
  :54-:57
   Sound FX: clock slowly and softly chiming to twelve


Cut to a CU of the boy looking in the bathroom mirror.  The boy pulls out
the blue marble from his pocket and looks at his sweater and then at the
marble, and then at his sweater – the boy moves the marble to his chest and
clenches it in his fist.  The boy runs back out the bathroom doorway.
  :57-1:07
   Sound FX: clock still slowly and softly chiming to twelve


Dissolve to a MS of the boy organizing the marbles into something
  1:07-1:10
   Sound FX: clock still slowly chiming to twelve but increase volume slightly


Cut to a CU of the marbles to show that the boy has positioned the marbles
into the outlined shape of a body with two eyes and a smiling face.  The
boy's hand moves into the picture.
  1:10-1:14
   Sound FX: clock chimes end


Cut to an ECU of the head of the body.  The boy's hand places the bright
blue marble as the nose, and the hand moves out of the picture.
  1:14-1:18
   Music fades in and holds under–last half of,  "Corelli: Concerto Grosso
in D"


Camera zooms into the bright blue marble until it is fuzzy and fills the
entire screen.
  1:18-1:20
   Teenage boy's voice (normal volume): And what you are.


Dissolve into black
  1:20-1:22
   Music fades out slowly


A bright light starts in the top left hand corner and grows until it fills
the entire screen.
   1:22-1:25


Cut to an overhead MS of a pure white floor.  The bright blue marble drops
from above and then bounces off the screen in slow motion – fade to black.
  1:25-1:30
   Young adult's voice (normal volume): And what you are.


Peace,

Tom

The book is print focused but  contains  two pages of web sites,
including one of Ted Warnell's and the ubi site.  I'll give the Russians
info on subscribing if they are interested.  I can see at least two
useful functions for the list - they may not be mutually exclusive.  The
first would be as a gathering place for info and the second would be a
place for discussionn of issues - I think the first wave of sites and
descriptive info is past and the time might be appropriate for more
in-depth examinations of issues than was true in the past.

tom

Jim Andrews wrote:
>
> From: Jim Andrews <jandrews@...>
>
>  Anyone you think has insight into poetics of webart is welcome, Tom, I know
> you think rangingly over it yourself. I have never started a list before, so
> I'm not quite sure how to proceed so that the list is developed as a
> thoughtful one. Inviting interesting artists and critics is a no-brainer,
> though, that's got to be good. What would you like to see?
>
> Are the Russians you mention doing Web work, or is the book concerned with
> print-based visual poetry? Lots of Web addresses included?
>
> I hope that this list can indeed contribute to poetics of Web art. Email
> lists surely can have an important role in this, though I suppose it would
> be problematical, though not impossible, to consider a multi-lingual list.
> What do you think? In any case, I would think that the primary communication
> through an international dimension of Webart would be site to site as
> opposed to email lists because it is through the visual and the art itself
> that I would think the spark would primarily fly. What say you?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Webart: http://speakeasy.org/~jandrews/vispo/WebartMailList.html

--
//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\
OOOPSY     \///\\\/\///\\\/                 <><>,...,.,
WHOOPS J    K  JOVE BY  HHH            ZOOOOZ    ZEUS'WRATHHTARW
  LLLL  STOPG          [    EMPTY                             ] SPACER

index of online work at http://members.home.net/trbell
essays:  http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/gloom.htm

At 07:23 PM 12/18/1998 -0800, you wrote:
>From: Jim Andrews <jandrews@...>
>
>Very interesting poetics, there, Tom.
>
>Battlespace 94?


Ha!  You know, I feel a videogame coming on.


>When I went to your vrml, I got a message that said something like 'The
>instruction referenced memory at x03030303030. The memory could not be
"read".
>Click on OK to terminate the application". Dangerous memory or just another
>bug? The mice and heels are clicking tonight, Tom, it's megaton Ramadan in
>Bagdad.


Nice happy accident or frightening juxtaposed paradigm? ;-)


>It seems to me that vrml is 'all about perspective'. So is empathy, in a
sense,
>which is a multiple perspective. Yet some conflicts remain no matter how many
>perspectives you can see them from.


Yeah, as the animation loop cycles, one might think, "God, make it stop!"
Maybe I should add some text in the world that says, "Click on OK to
terminate the application," which then leads a viewer to a VRML death
monument . . . "I have a soul."


>You say you are realizing things. Care to expand on that?

Well, It's all a matter of cognitive dissonance.  I'm thinking about little
things like the place where I work to bigger things like how this world
affects me and how people interact with each other.

I guess being a part of genx and needing a sense of faith is a big thing in
my life.  Genx seems to take "tolerance of faith" to new heights . . . and
perhaps it deludes people because the goal becomes tolerance rather than a
deepening of truth?  ahh, it's some guy's theory.  Personally, I find
tolerance of faith to be a very wonderful and freeing thing.  I mean, it is
a little weird though.  Every person has a cognitive core about them where
beliefs are at the heart, opinions are in the middle layer, and attitudes
are on the surface.  It kind of works visually like this:

  MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
  M            attitudes               M
  M  MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM  M
  M  M         opinions             M  M
  M  M  MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM  M  M
  M  M  M       beliefs          M  M  M
  M  M  MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM  M  M
  M  M          opinions            M  M
  M  MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM  M
  M            attitudes               M
  MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

If something can change your "attitude" about something, a door to changing
an "opinion" about that something has been opened.  If something can change
your "opinions" about something, a door to changing a "belief" has been
opened.

  MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM  MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
  M            attitudes               M
  M  MMMMMMMMMMMMM  MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM  M
  M  M         opinions             M  M
  M  M  MMMMMMMMMM  MMMMMMMMMMMMMM  M  M
  M  M  M       beliefs          M  M  M
  M  M  MMMMMMMMMM  MMMMMMMMMMMMMM  M  M
  M  M          opinions            M  M
  M  MMMMMMMMMMMMM  MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM  M
  M            attitudes               M
  MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM  MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM


Which then says, "what is the goal of persuasion?"  Who am I to say what is
right or wrong?  Who am I to mess with "beliefs."  Is it all about
"perspectives"?

I'll be the first to admit though, it is hard to tell the difference
between an "attitude," an "opinion," and a "belief."  Most of the time, I
lack the time to really think about what I'm saying or reading or doing.  I
jump to conclusions based on my own cognitive core structure . . . which is
not entirely static.  Having a liquid conciousness is hard on the person's
psyche, but in interacting with people, you should never be cement.  When
people say, "I have an attitude! (said in your best street-hardened voice)"
  (or something similar to that) They are basically saying, "I am cement."
Or based on the attitude/opinion/belief model . . . they are saying "my
attitudes, opinions, and beliefs are rock solid; you will not affect me."

So how does this all play into the current situation.  I have no idea.  I
am so seperated from a sense of truth in a lot of things.

Muddy enough for ya'?

;-)  Tom

The politically corrected Christmas Carol............................:-)

>
>
> >..:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.=
>
> Eurocentric Midwinter Greetings!
>
> On the 12th day of the Eurocentrically imposed midwinter festival, my
> Significant Other in a consenting adult, monogamous relationship gave to
> me:
>
> TWELVE males reclaiming their inner warrior through ritual drumming,
>
> ELEVEN pipers piping (plus the 18-member pit orchestra made up of =
> members
> in good standing the Musicians Equity Union as called for in their union
> contract even though they will not be asked to play a note),
>
> TEN melanin deprived, testosterone-poisoned scions of the patriarchal
> ruling class system, leaping,
>
> NINE persons engaged in rhythmic self-expression,
>
> EIGHT economically disadvantaged female persons stealing milk-products
> from enslaved Bovine-Americans,
>
> SEVEN endangered swans swimming on federally protected wetlands,
>
> SIX enslaved Fowl-Americans producing stolen non-human animal products,
>
> FIVE golden symbols of culturally sanctioned enforced domestic
> incarceration,



> (NOTE: after members of the Animal Liberation Front
> threatened to throw red paint at my computer, the calling birds, French
> hens and partridge have been reintroduced to their native habitat. To
> avoid further Animal-American enslavement, the remaining gift package =
> has
> been revised.)
>
> FOUR hours of recorded whale songs,
>
> THREE deconstructionist poets,
>
> TWO Sierra Club calendars printed on recycled processed tree carcasses,
> and...
>
> ONE Spotted Owl activist chained to an old-growth tree.
>
> ---------------------------------------

  A wish for......

Joy in this season,

Peace in these uncertain times.

Take care. Take heart.


beth
------------------------------------

sorry jim, you have to see the work, it is really exceptional.
a bit unfair of me since i had that advantage.
it should answer all your questions.
regards and respect
komninos

At 01:24 AM 12/19/98 -0800, you wrote:
>From: Jim Andrews <jandrews@...>
>
>> It seems to me that vrml is 'all about perspective'. So is empathy, in a
>> sense, which is a multiple perspective. Yet some conflicts remain no
matter how
>> many perspectives you can see them from. You say you are realizing
things. Care
>> to expand on that?
>>
>> i don't think he has to expand on that, are we judging the person or the
>> art?
>
>I am 'judging' neither Tom nor the art, Komninos. I am not able to view
the art,
>as I said, and I respect Tom. I agree with you, though, that he is not
obliged to
>expand on his remarks. Hopefully I will be able to view the art soon.
>
>Tom, I will try to download the Cosmos player from home here, rather than
trying
>to view your work at my place of work.
>
>Jim.
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
>
****************************************************************
komninos's cyberpoetry site:  http://student.uq.edu.au/~s271502
poetry jukebox:  http://student.uq.edu.au/~s271502/jukebox.html
****************************************************************

> It seems to me that vrml is 'all about perspective'. So is empathy, in a
> sense, which is a multiple perspective. Yet some conflicts remain no matter
how
> many perspectives you can see them from. You say you are realizing things.
Care
> to expand on that?
>
> i don't think he has to expand on that, are we judging the person or the
> art?

I am 'judging' neither Tom nor the art, Komninos. I am not able to view the art,
as I said, and I respect Tom. I agree with you, though, that he is not obliged
to
expand on his remarks. Hopefully I will be able to view the art soon.

Tom, I will try to download the Cosmos player from home here, rather than trying
to view your work at my place of work.

Jim.

At 07:23 PM 12/18/98 -0800, you wrote:
>From: Jim Andrews <jandrews@...>
>
>Very interesting poetics, there, Tom.
>
>Battlespace 94?
>
>When I went to your vrml, I got a message that said something like 'The
>instruction referenced memory at x03030303030. The memory could not be
"read".
>Click on OK to terminate the application". Dangerous memory or just another
>bug? The mice and heels are clicking tonight, Tom, it's megaton Ramadan in
>Bagdad.
>
>It seems to me that vrml is 'all about perspective'. So is empathy, in a
sense,
>which is a multiple perspective. Yet some conflicts remain no matter how many
>perspectives you can see them from.
>
>You say you are realizing things. Care to expand on that?

i don't think he has to expand on that, are we judging the person or the
art? let the piece stand on its own - the important thing is what the
viewer/interactivist gets from the piece, and for me it drew me quickly
into all the media that has passed thru my head over the last couple of
days, and all the perspectives i have had on the situation.

cheers
komninos




>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
>
****************************************************************
komninos's cyberpoetry site:  http://student.uq.edu.au/~s271502
poetry jukebox:  http://student.uq.edu.au/~s271502/jukebox.html
****************************************************************

awesome tom purely awesome.
victor look!
let someone play with someones technology and when something needs to be
expressed, it will be, and that is not painting by numbers.
this piece not only engages you with its three different viewpoints, you
activate it all b dropping the bomb, you are responsible for the consequences.
a brilliant piece tom.
komninos

At 06:19 PM 12/18/98 -0700, you wrote:
>From: Tom Purdue <tompur@...>
>
>At 07:38 PM 12/17/1998 -0800, you wrote:
>>From: Jim Andrews <jandrews@...>
>>
>>To me, one of the most exciting possibilities of webart practice and
>>theory, webart poetics, then, is the international dimension.
>
>
>A new word then, "intranational."  The international becoming personal?
>
>
>>There's often strong elements in the work itself that transcend language
>>barriers, that operate on the level of symbol and sound, for instance,
>>though in my own work, which almost always involves language, there's
>>also in my case English.
>
>
>I have to say that I am really in love with AltaVista's bablefish
>translator.  Along those lines . . . you might want to check out this
>article on the alta veesta translashun sirvis . . . whaddya theenk?
>
>http://home.earthlink.net/~aske/linguistics/europanto.htm
>
>as the French, or the highly disco influenced, might now say: voolay
>voocooshay a vicmwa shoo shwa
>
>
>>Of course, most recently, the bombing of Iraq by the U.S. again--for
>>which there is sadly large support in the U.S. (right or wrong it is sad
>>that the support is so strong)--would ideally be met with such a large
>>international NO that military actions could be discouraged. The Web,
>>with its world-wideness, seems to offer a tantalizing opportunity for a
>>kind of international fellowship that may be new on the
>>mass-communications level. Surely it is a noble aspiration for Webart to
>>further that larger goal as much as possible.
>
>
>I work at Hill Air Force Base.  I'm a technical editor for a contracting
>company that works for the AF.  We deal with the testing of bombs and the
>training of pilots.  The recent strike on Iraq kinda freaked me out.  I'm
>realizing things.  So, there are both the politics of the soul and the
>politics of war in my newest VRML.
>
>I have a friend at work who dropped bombs on Iraq during "Desert Storm."
>He related a story to me about how some pilots sign their names on the
>bombs before they drop.  I came home and spent a couple hours creating a
>VRML where if you click on the bomb, you drop the bomb.  The animation is a
>loop that does not end unless you back out of your browser.  The nature of
>the animation also causes many errors to be stored in a warning message
>bank that flashes yellow as the animation plays its course.  Three
>viewpoints are available to the user: a frontal viewpoint titled, "sign
>your name on the bomb"; an above viewpoint titled, "America"; and a bottom
>viewpoint entitled, "Iraq."  Both the top and bottom viewpoints add an
>additional phrase that is not available from the "sign your name on the
>bomb" viewpoint . . . "you cannot stop these errors."
>
>The VRML is available for you to view at this URL:
>
>http://members.xoom.com/tompur/virtual_text.htm
>
>and more specifically at:
>
>http://members.xoom.com/tompur/12_16_98.wrl
>
>
>tompur --- out.
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>
>
****************************************************************
komninos's cyberpoetry site:  http://student.uq.edu.au/~s271502
poetry jukebox:  http://student.uq.edu.au/~s271502/jukebox.html
****************************************************************

Very interesting poetics, there, Tom.

Battlespace 94?

When I went to your vrml, I got a message that said something like 'The
instruction referenced memory at x03030303030. The memory could not be "read".
Click on OK to terminate the application". Dangerous memory or just another
bug? The mice and heels are clicking tonight, Tom, it's megaton Ramadan in
Bagdad.

It seems to me that vrml is 'all about perspective'. So is empathy, in a sense,
which is a multiple perspective. Yet some conflicts remain no matter how many
perspectives you can see them from.

You say you are realizing things. Care to expand on that?

>i am just preparing
>a cd-rom
>(only for friends ... :)
>
>net.works '98
>from 'the apple' to 'the piano'
>
>
>have buyed a cdr drive
>
>...... :)
>
>
>please send me your address

This is really cool.  I received a free cd rom a couple months ago from
Levi Asher of the infamous literary kicks web site.  This was a cd-rom
movie called "Notes From Underground," which was based on the Fyodor
Dostoevsky novel.  I watched this and just went crazy for a couple of days
. . . what you could do with a video camera, the right software/hardware, a
few hundred bucks, and a creative soul.

Nice direction Reiner.  (I kind of want to say "Reindeer" at this time of
season ;-))

Can I send you my address?

Tom

At 07:38 PM 12/17/1998 -0800, you wrote:
>From: Jim Andrews <jandrews@...>
>
>To me, one of the most exciting possibilities of webart practice and
>theory, webart poetics, then, is the international dimension.


A new word then, "intranational."  The international becoming personal?


>There's often strong elements in the work itself that transcend language
>barriers, that operate on the level of symbol and sound, for instance,
>though in my own work, which almost always involves language, there's
>also in my case English.


I have to say that I am really in love with AltaVista's bablefish
translator.  Along those lines . . . you might want to check out this
article on the alta veesta translashun sirvis . . . whaddya theenk?

http://home.earthlink.net/~aske/linguistics/europanto.htm

as the French, or the highly disco influenced, might now say: voolay
voocooshay a vicmwa shoo shwa


>Of course, most recently, the bombing of Iraq by the U.S. again--for
>which there is sadly large support in the U.S. (right or wrong it is sad
>that the support is so strong)--would ideally be met with such a large
>international NO that military actions could be discouraged. The Web,
>with its world-wideness, seems to offer a tantalizing opportunity for a
>kind of international fellowship that may be new on the
>mass-communications level. Surely it is a noble aspiration for Webart to
>further that larger goal as much as possible.


I work at Hill Air Force Base.  I'm a technical editor for a contracting
company that works for the AF.  We deal with the testing of bombs and the
training of pilots.  The recent strike on Iraq kinda freaked me out.  I'm
realizing things.  So, there are both the politics of the soul and the
politics of war in my newest VRML.

I have a friend at work who dropped bombs on Iraq during "Desert Storm."
He related a story to me about how some pilots sign their names on the
bombs before they drop.  I came home and spent a couple hours creating a
VRML where if you click on the bomb, you drop the bomb.  The animation is a
loop that does not end unless you back out of your browser.  The nature of
the animation also causes many errors to be stored in a warning message
bank that flashes yellow as the animation plays its course.  Three
viewpoints are available to the user: a frontal viewpoint titled, "sign
your name on the bomb"; an above viewpoint titled, "America"; and a bottom
viewpoint entitled, "Iraq."  Both the top and bottom viewpoints add an
additional phrase that is not available from the "sign your name on the
bomb" viewpoint . . . "you cannot stop these errors."

The VRML is available for you to view at this URL:

http://members.xoom.com/tompur/virtual_text.htm

and more specifically at:

http://members.xoom.com/tompur/12_16_98.wrl


tompur --- out.

reiner strasser wrote:

> From: reiner strasser <r.strasser@...>
>
> hi jim
>
> i am just preparing
> a cd-rom
> (only for friends ... :)
>
> net.works '98
> from 'the apple' to 'the piano'
>
> have buyed a cdr drive
>
> ...... :)
>
> please send me your address
>
> all the best
>
> reiner
>

Having seen  "apple" thru "piano" makes me want to be a friend of
reiners'.Just kidding!!.....:-)

beth

hi jim

i am just preparing
a cd-rom
(only for friends ... :)

net.works '98
from 'the apple' to 'the piano'


have buyed a cdr drive

...... :)


please send me your address


all the best

reiner

http://www.thing.net/~rdom/ecd/ecd.html appears to be the homepage for
the Electronic Civil Disobediance project, which developed the FLOODNET
applet.

Great and timely post, Beth. I read this and followed the link and read
with great interest the linked page. So the FLOODNET applet simply
reloads every few seconds a specific Web page. Consequently, if enough
people run the applet, access to the targeted server is effectively
blocked. It targets just one Web page, but if the server is occupied
serving that page up continually, it hasn't got time for other requests.

Here we are on the eve of an impeachment vote bombing Bagdad...heard a
twist on the debate about the 'Clinton's rage' theory of the timing and
action: someone wondered if the scheduling of the impeachment vote,
which was done with knowledge that the report from Iraq concerning the
search for armaments was due out around the same time, was planned so
that the president could be accused of bombing to avoid the impeachment
vote... regardless of whether the impending vote motivated the bombing
or not, it seems to me that such military actions are ultimately not in
the best interests of the United States if they are not fully sanctioned
by the U.N.; as in the matters of art that we're discussing on this
list, progressive global actions are best accomplished via cooperation
and international participation.

I will forward the FLOODNET posting. It seems like a positive protest of
this military action in 'battlespace 94' that spills out, spills blood
in Iraq here and now, Christmas, Ramadan 1998.

Date:    Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:06:59 -0500
From:    "A. Jenn Sondheim" <sondheim@...>
Subject: Re: CALL FOR FLOODNET ACTION FOR PEACE IN THE
MIDDLE EAST (fwd)

>From the Electronic Disturbance Theater

CALL FOR FLOODNET ACTION
CALL FOR FLOODNET ACTION
FOR PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST
VITRUAL SIT-IN ON
THE WHITE HOUSE WEB SITE

Friday, December 18, 1998

FROM 10:00 AM TO 4:00 PMFriday, December 18, 1998

FROM 10:00 AM TO 4:00 PM
(Washington D.C. TIME)

FROM 4:00 PM TO 10:00 PM
(GMT- GREENWICH MEAN TIME)

http://www.aurorablue.org/projects/rdom/zapsPublic/ddkfoyer.htm*

******************************
We oppose the U.S. military attack on Iraq.


We recognize that resistance to the current bombardment
of Iraq, and resistance to all future war, will take place
in
two spheres. One is on the ground, in the streets, in
offices,
in universities, in factories -  in real spaces. The other
is
on the Net, in what the Pentagon now calls "battlespace.=94
And we support the development and practice of joint
virtual-real actions of resistance.

We do not believe that only nation-states have thelegitimate
authority to engage in war and aggression.
And we see cyberspace as a means for
non-state political actors to enter present and future
arenas of conflict, and to do so across international
borders.

We do not know how long the current U.S.-U.K. aerial assault

on Iraq will last. Indications are that it will be
short-lived.
It may therefore not be an appropriate or strategic moment
to attempt to inspire, coordinate, and sustain a campaign
of virtual-real actions of resistance.

We do feel, however, compelled to take some action.And
therefore we will use FloodNet, the same tool
we have been using against web sites of the Mexican
government, to now make a symbolic gesture of our
opposition to the current assault on Iraq.

We therefore urge all people of good conscience
who have the clarity of mind to oppose these aerial
assaults to join us in a ongoing, nonviolent,
virtual sit-in on the White House web site.
We urge you to join us in a FloodNet  Action
for Peace in the Middle East.

**********************************

Friday, December 18, 1998

FROM 10:00 AM TO 4:00 PM
(Washington D.C. TIME)

FROM 4:00 PM TO 10:00 PM
(GMT- GREENWICH MEAN TIME)

http://www.aurorablue.org/projects/rdom/zapsPublic/ddkfoyer.htm

The Electronic Disturbance Theater

------------------------------

Anyone you think has insight into poetics of webart is welcome, Tom, I know
you think rangingly over it yourself. I have never started a list before, so
I'm not quite sure how to proceed so that the list is developed as a
thoughtful one. Inviting interesting artists and critics is a no-brainer,
though, that's got to be good. What would you like to see?

Are the Russians you mention doing Web work, or is the book concerned with
print-based visual poetry? Lots of Web addresses included?

I hope that this list can indeed contribute to poetics of Web art. Email
lists surely can have an important role in this, though I suppose it would
be problematical, though not impossible, to consider a multi-lingual list.
What do you think? In any case, I would think that the primary communication
through an international dimension of Webart would be site to site as
opposed to email lists because it is through the visual and the art itself
that I would think the spark would primarily fly. What say you?

Tom,
Thats a great idea....!!

beth

Thomas Bell wrote:

> From: Thomas Bell <trbell@...>
>
> I thinnk there is a large number of people engaged in webart
> internationally just as there is  a large number of people engaged in
> mail art, visual poetry, etc.  For example I recently came across a book
> in Russian that shows work by over 100 intenational visual artists
> working in the 90s.The problem is one of communication.  Language is one
> part of this but I suspect a minor part.  I keep encountering a visual
> poet here and one there and one list here and another there.  I'm not
> sure that these people are in communication with each other - perhaps
> they could be invited to join this list unless the idea is to keep it
> small?
>
> tom bell
>
> Jim Andrews wrote:
> >
> > From: Jim Andrews <jandrews@...>
> >
> > To me, one of the most exciting possibilities of webart practice and
> > theory, webart poetics, then, is the international dimension.
> >
> //\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\
> OOOPSY     \///\\\/\///\\\/                 <><>,...,.,
> WHOOPS J    K  JOVE BY  HHH            ZOOOOZ    ZEUS'WRATHHTARW
>  LLLL  STOPG          [    EMPTY                             ] SPACER
>
> index of online work at http://members.home.net/trbell
> essays:  http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/gloom.htm
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Webart: http://speakeasy.org/~jandrews/vispo/WebartMailList.html

Jim Andrews wrote:

> From: Jim Andrews <jandrews@...>
>
> To me, one of the most exciting possibilities of webart practice and
> theory, webart poetics, then, is the international dimension.

To me, this is the Best part of the web. No borders, only the ones created
in the mind.

>
>
> There's often strong elements in the work itself that transcend language
> barriers, that operate on the level of symbol and sound, for instance,
> though in my own work, which almost always involves language, there's
> also in my case English.

We transcend language in cyberspace in order to communicate. Interesting to
me that written language began as gesture, evolved into symbols, then into
witten language as we know it today. Now we find in order to communicate
that we are turning back to the symbols, and with dhtml, the gesture. Vrml
and sound offer exciting possiblities.

>
>
> 'There may arise an international network of Web artists operating in
> much the same spirit of border crossing as the Mail Artists but in
> larger numbers, enjoying the support and participation of an
> international audience toward whatsoever is delightful, beautiful, true,
> good, and just.

I think we are already seeing the beginning of this. And once again, it is
the mail artists that have moved to the web that are on the front line...

>
>
> This could arise rather gracefully given the artistic and international
> nature of the Web and a frequent desire on the part of networkers of all
> sorts to do artistic work of consequence in the world.'



> So I'm wondering what others on the list think about the international
> dimension, and what you see as going on now that way, and what's to
> come, and what you yourself are doing in your own work/practice that
> coincides with your thoughts and feelings on this important issue.

Sometimes even "Global" seems too small of a scale.I think the posibilities
are only limited by the what we can imagine!

Im still in the physical realm with my art. But even that has moved more
away from the word, and more into the image.

Currently the search for text takes me into the realm of the playwrite,
Pinter. He writes in french, then brings his work to the states to produce
in english. Has to do with the lyrical quality....
Also have dicovered that the more specific I am, the more general the work
will be.

Not much, but its a start....


beth
----------------------------------------

>
>
> Jim.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Webart: http://speakeasy.org/~jandrews/vispo/WebartMailList.html

I thinnk there is a large number of people engaged in webart
internationally just as there is  a large number of people engaged in
mail art, visual poetry, etc.  For example I recently came across a book
in Russian that shows work by over 100 intenational visual artists
working in the 90s.The problem is one of communication.  Language is one
part of this but I suspect a minor part.  I keep encountering a visual
poet here and one there and one list here and another there.  I'm not
sure that these people are in communication with each other - perhaps
they could be invited to join this list unless the idea is to keep it
small?

tom bell

Jim Andrews wrote:
>
> From: Jim Andrews <jandrews@...>
>
> To me, one of the most exciting possibilities of webart practice and
> theory, webart poetics, then, is the international dimension.
>
//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\
OOOPSY     \///\\\/\///\\\/                 <><>,...,.,
WHOOPS J    K  JOVE BY  HHH            ZOOOOZ    ZEUS'WRATHHTARW
  LLLL  STOPG          [    EMPTY                             ] SPACER

index of online work at http://members.home.net/trbell
essays:  http://members.tripod.com/~trbell/criticism/gloom.htm

To me, one of the most exciting possibilities of webart practice and
theory, webart poetics, then, is the international dimension.

There's often strong elements in the work itself that transcend language
barriers, that operate on the level of symbol and sound, for instance,
though in my own work, which almost always involves language, there's
also in my case English.

But I'm getting hits from all over the world. And wondering really about
interesting responses I can make to this situation and the larger
possibilities we probably all glimpse but, if you'r like me, are having
a hard time reaching.

http://www.jodi.org seems to me a pretty good example of a couple of
artists who are taking the international possibilities quite
imaginatively. Perhaps in a different way but certainly with no less
impact is Mark Amerika and his international tours with his Grammatron
work. And on our list, Komninos has been very active in many
international projects.

The best I've been able to do toward articulating as I see it the
central possibility of the international dimension goes like this, which
is part of an essay I wrote a couple of months ago:

'There may arise an international network of Web artists operating in
much the same spirit of border crossing as the Mail Artists but in
larger numbers, enjoying the support and participation of an
international audience toward whatsoever is delightful, beautiful, true,
good, and just.

This could arise rather gracefully given the artistic and international
nature of the Web and a frequent desire on the part of networkers of all
sorts to do artistic work of consequence in the world.'

Of course, most recently, the bombing of Iraq by the U.S. again--for
which there is sadly large support in the U.S. (right or wrong it is sad
that the support is so strong)--would ideally be met with such a large
international NO that military actions could be discouraged. The Web,
with its world-wideness, seems to offer a tantalizing opportunity for a
kind of international fellowship that may be new on the
mass-communications level. Surely it is a noble aspiration for Webart to
further that larger goal as much as possible.

Personally, my own work, and many of those whom I admire, is often
concerned more with, uh, the politics of the spirit than politics in a
more traditional sense. But the two are by no means at odds, though
it's  healthy for artists to insist that their art not be relegated to
propaganda and for them to resist being too deeply recruited to
political causes--at least as an artist. Art as propaganda, regardless
of the justice of the cause, is narrow and a less than compelling, less
than truly invigorating manifestation of our humanity--or so it seems to
me.

Still, though, to speak out in one's own voice for justice and peace and
international fellowship--and whatever else you think is the livin
end--is important.

So I'm wondering what others on the list think about the international
dimension, and what you see as going on now that way, and what's to
come, and what you yourself are doing in your own work/practice that
coincides with your thoughts and feelings on this important issue.

Jim.

How will we extend our humanity to these new proportions?

:-)

beth

Ur webart list word.

A mouthful already.

May it be a list of procative insights,
not just a list but interplay of genius and creativity,
global conspiracy of delight
disturbing and questioning
all over the status quo of art.

And art?
Is that what we are interested in?

Or does the very practice
long to lose it?

Welcome, welcome.

Jim.