Stanhbaker:

Perhaps my amateur take on this is too simplistic.  If toy/model builders
slap together tabletop Stirlings that have the output to drive a small
PM motor (as generator), at what point of scaling the engine size upwards
must it become an arduous and demanding process?

There's a English gent who, on YouTube, demonstrates his rhombic drive
Stirling powered by burning scrap paper, and it drives a PM motor as
generator producing enough output to drive a motor/fan assembly, which
cools a car radiator, whose fluid cools the water jacket of the Stirling.
It's a demonstration unit, but scaled in size from a tabletop toy.

It would be a shame that hobbyists in 2009 can't find a way with newer,
yet still accessible and reasonably priced components, to scale up the
size to a needed power level.

RJM

============================

"oldsagebrush"
A successful power producing Stirling engine must be designed and built to meet
specific operating conditions. There is no such thing as a Stirling engine which
will operate under a variety of temperatures, Load, etc. etc.
I know this is a sore disappointment to many who have hoped to find a way to
drive a generator with sunlight, biofuels, or other heat sources.

A reading of the numerous posts on the Power Producing Engines Forum at
<stirlingengine.com> should confirm the above statement.

The design and fabrication of a Stirling engine for a specific application is an
arduous and demanding process not to be undertaken with out a great deal of
commitment to studying the thermodynamics of the engines and the expense of
fabrication.

Even the units designed, built, and sold for specific applications are far too
expensive for casual use. Think in terms of thousands of $'s per unit.

stanhbaker
--- In warmairmotors@yahoogroups.com, "oldsagebrush" <oldsagebrush@...> wrote:

> Hi guys,
> This is my first post. > I joined this group to ask the question addressed in
this thread and specifically in RJM's post below.  I belong to a group that is
looking for a way to power an auto alternator which would in turn charge
batteries and provide electricity in the third world.  If anyone can point me to
plans for or an example of such an engine that could be made from parts found in
a junkyard, it would be greatly appreciated.    My experience with Sterling
engines is mostly limited to what I've learned on the internet. So, if such a
Sterling isn't practical please tell me so we can seek a different power source.
> Sincerely, > Harold Epps


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"oldsagebrush"
A successful power producing Stirling engine must be designed and built to meet
specific operating conditions. There is no such thing as a Stirling engine which
will operate under a variety of temperatures, Load, etc. etc.
I know this is a sore disappointment to many who have hoped to find a way to
drive a generator with sunlight, biofuels, or other heat sources.

A reading of the numerous posts on the Power Producing Engines Forum at
<stirlingengine.com> should confirm the above statement.

The design and fabrication of a Stirling engine for a specific application is an
arduous and demanding process not to be undertaken with out a great deal of
commitment to studying the thermodynamics of the engines and the expense of
fabrication.

Even the units designed, built, and sold for specific applications are far too
expensive for casual use. Think in terms of thousands of $'s per unit.

stanhbaker
--- In warmairmotors@yahoogroups.com, "oldsagebrush" <oldsagebrush@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
> This is my first post. > I joined this group to ask the question addressed in
this thread and specifically in RJM's post below.  I belong to a group that is
looking for a way to power an auto alternator which would in turn charge
batteries and provide electricity in the third world.  If anyone can point me to
plans for or an example of such an engine that could be made from parts found in
a junkyard, it would be greatly appreciated.    My experience with Sterling
engines is mostly limited to what I've learned on the internet. So, if such a
Sterling isn't practical please tell me so we can seek a different power source.
> Sincerely, > Harold Epps

"oldsagebrush"
A successful power producing Stirling engine must be designed and built to meet
specific operating conditions. There is no such thing as a Stirling engine which
will operate under a variety of temperatures, Load, etc. etc.
I know this is a sore disappointment to many who have hoped to find a way to
drive a generator with sunlight, biofuels, or other heat sources.

A reading of the numerous posts on the Power Producing Engines Forum at
<stirlingengine.com> should confirm the above statement.

The design and fabrication of a Stirling engine for a specific application is an
arduous and demanding process not to be undertaken with out a great deal of
commitment to studying the thermodynamics of the engines and the expense of
fabrication.

Even the units designed, built, and sold for specific applications are far too
expensive for casual use. Think in terms of thousands of $'s per unit.

stanhbaker
--- In warmairmotors@yahoogroups.com, "oldsagebrush" <oldsagebrush@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
> This is my first post. > I joined this group to ask the question addressed in
this thread and specifically in RJM's post below.  I belong to a group that is
looking for a way to power an auto alternator which would in turn charge
batteries and provide electricity in the third world.  If anyone can point me to
plans for or an example of such an engine that could be made from parts found in
a junkyard, it would be greatly appreciated.    My experience with Sterling
engines is mostly limited to what I've learned on the internet. So, if such a
Sterling isn't practical please tell me so we can seek a different power source.
> Sincerely, > Harold Epps

Mike,
Thank you for your response. I like the way you worded it.  Apparently the
person in the other group who suggested that such Sterlings would be an easy to
come by and practical energy source will believe nearly anything.
Harold

--- In warmairmotors@yahoogroups.com, Mike or Carmen Dugan <mikenmenchie@...>
wrote:
>
>
> I've been on this list a while, nothing like that's come up. All
> anyone's talked about is either way over the DIY'er's abilities, or a toy.
>
> I could have missed something.
>
> I'd be very interested in the same thing, for local power here in the US.
>
> Posted by: "oldsagebrush"
> > This is my first post.
> > I joined this group to ask the question addressed in this thread
>  > and specifically in RJM's post below.  I belong to a group that
> > is looking for a way to power an auto alternator which would in
> > turn charge batteries and provide electricity in the third world.
> > If anyone can point me to plans for or an example of such an engine
> > that could be made from parts found in a junkyard, it would be
> > greatly appreciated.    My experience with Sterling engines is
> > mostly limited to what I've learned on the internet. So, if such
> > a Sterling isn't practical please tell me so we can seek a
> > different power source.
>
>
> RJM <gandsnut@> wrote:
> >> True.
> >>
> >> However, for those of us who could apply a DIY (Do It Yourself)
> >> Stirling to a work application, we don't have the resources for
> >> exotic machining of expensive metals, high-tolerance parts,
> >> liquid helium, etc.
> >>
> >> It seems to me that the Stirling engine, "modernized", holds
> >> enormous potential not for the advanced application, but for
> >> the mundane.
> >>
> >> For example, the "3rd world" that lives in squalor and struggles
> >> to exist will not benefit from one $500K cutting edge Stirling,
> >> as much as they would from a thousand $500 DIY Stirling engines,
> >> pumping water, even more importantly, generating electricity.
> >>
> >> I see this as a huge positive for all nations to pursue
> >> self-sufficiency rather than have vast, lopsided global
> >> emigration, relocation based on standard of living. It is
> >> akin to the "give me a fish/teach me to fish" scenario.
> >> Rather than build shiny desktop toy Stirlings, I'd love to
> >> see non-profit research publish freely accessible plans on
> >> "upsizing" a Stirling to the kilowatt range, using at-hand
> >> materials.
> >>
> >> I spoke with local organizations and agencies about the
> >> non-profit research angle, and was surprised to find out
> >> they already knew about the Stirling Renaissance.  But,
> >> none had any interest in starting a non-profit that would
> >> come up with upsized Stirling parameters that would be
> >> within the DIY community's ability.  Apparently, the
> >> economics just "weren't there" for such an untapped
> >> potential.  Or, they were quick to say, "yes, go ahead
> >> with your great idea [as long as you find the funding]".
> >>
> >> While toys and models are fine for entertainment, where
> >> would the aviation industry be if the jet engine was
> >> only ever built to be an entertaining model on some table?
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> RJM
> >>
> >> ==========
> >>
> >> There are many Stirlings out there doing real work. The ones that come to
> >> mind for me are used as coolers for liquid Helium in the electro magnets
> >> for medical scanners and photographic (infrared) sensors for satellites.
> >> I used to work in the next lab to this group:
> >> http://www.eng.rl.ac.uk/asd/crg/projects/closed-cycle-coolers/index.html
>
>
> RJM <gandsnut@> wrote:
> >>> Has anybody built or know of an operating Stirling that
> >>> actually does significant work, and is not pre-1900?
> >>> Or, where plans might be for a scaled-up Stirling that
> >>> is not a model?
>