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  • Category: K-12
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Rosicrucian Wisdom/Theosophy of the Rosicrucian-Rudolf Steiner -   Message List  
Reply Message #22495 of 23190 |
RE: [wc] Rosicrucian Wisdom/Theosophy of the Rosicrucian-Rudolf Steinerş - Lecture I




Luz:

> The Truth Steiner say's he See's, lets roll it all up together and call it
Spain. Now, he's a travel agent devoted to telling people about his beloved
country.

That's a charitable interpretation. What if he's a con artist, using tales of
this non-existent "Spain" to take people's money, or just enjoys the ego trip of
having devoted "followers"? What if he's well intentioned but delusional, from
drugs or drink or mental illness? What if he's just gullible and repeating tall
tales? Can we even corroborate that he's even been on these "trips to Spain"?
Hm, suspiciously not.

Or ... more to the point ... "Spain" is, as you later acknowledge, a religious
belief. Maybe it has symbolic meaning, but to take it literally is dangerous.
Just because lots of people, over the millennia, have believed in it literally,
doesn't make it so. Lots of people believe in Spain, but lots of others believe
in ... Mozambique, and Kathmandu, and Svalbard ... and historically they fight
about which is real. Millions of people have died in these fights. Today, those
who believe literally in these so-called truths still tend to be dangerous
zealots, very keen on limiting other people's freedoms if they won't act, dress,
speak, and worship exactly the way it's supposedly done in "Spain."

>We all know of Spain and acknowledge its existence (except for my first
friend). And we all have different experiences and our relationships are of
varying degrees of intensity. Is only one of us Right?

Yep. There is only one right answer as to whether Spain actually exists, as a
physical place (not a myth or story or religious metaphor), and this question is
what is at stake. (No one doubts that stories about Spain are very interesting,
but the claim the travel agent is making is that you can actually visit it.)

You allow for one person to doubt, Luz, but you describe her as naive and
provincial, an uneducated peasant. In reality maybe some of the doubters would
just be stubborn, unimaginative types; others would be more sophisticated than
this, not people who had never left home, but people with rational reason to
doubt the existence of Spain, not least if there's absolutely no credible
evidence for its existence.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:57 pm

winters_diana
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Message #22495 of 23190 |
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... Ha! You said what I was trying to say in a much simpler, better way. If you use "Spain" as the stand-in for the vast mystical realms Steiner described, it...
Diana Winters
winters_diana Offline Send Email
Jan 24, 2012
1:02 pm

... That's a charitable interpretation. What if he's a con artist, using tales of this non-existent "Spain" to take people's money, or just enjoys the ego trip...
Diana Winters
winters_diana Offline Send Email
Jan 24, 2012
1:00 pm

... snip ... Yes, that seems a very important problem! Of course, he also says that anyone can acquire clairvoyant abilities (he has a detailed program for...
Diana Winters
winters_diana Offline Send Email
Jan 24, 2012
12:48 pm

... So far, none of Steiner's followers, that I've ever heard of, has claimed to have achieved clairvoyance. There may be some claims I'm unaware of, of...
petekaraiskos Offline Send Email Jan 24, 2012
2:54 pm

... You forgot Dottie. (Sorry to newcomers for a small inside joke; refers to someone on another list, fond of reporting her "visions.") ... That guru being...
Diana Winters
winters_diana Offline Send Email
Jan 24, 2012
3:20 pm

Theosophy of the Rosicrucian (Rudolf Steiner) Lecture II: “The ninefold constitution of man” Available at:...
Diana Winters
winters_diana Offline Send Email
Jan 30, 2012
3:39 am

Lost most of the formatting there. Drat!!!! Hope it is readable....
winters_diana Offline Send Email Jan 30, 2012
3:42 am

... This looks like a good summary of lecture two, and for those wondering about the added complexity given to the arrangement between sentient(soul) body and...
rafaelsanza Offline Send Email Jan 30, 2012
4:19 am

Rafael: "This looks like a good summary of lecture two, and for those wondering about the added complexity given to the arrangement between sentient(soul) body...
Diana Winters
winters_diana Offline Send Email
Jan 30, 2012
12:58 pm

Just for the record, I decided to dispense with the idea of summarizing the discussion of the lecture each week. Let's just let it run its course and die a...
Diana Winters
winters_diana Offline Send Email
Jan 30, 2012
1:04 pm

... Thank you Diana, Some of my notes: 1) Steiner again warns that criticism cannot be valid unless the critic can test what he's saying (i.e. become...
petekaraiskos Offline Send Email Jan 30, 2012
3:04 pm

... I realized after reading this that the Animals have their Ego in the Astral World and not Higher Devachan, which I more than alluded to in my accolade for...
rafaelsanza Offline Send Email Jan 31, 2012
4:37 am

... In my view, animals -- well, at least dogs, cats are another matter, obviously -- have a lot more to their personality than 'what might appear to be a name...
alicia h.
zooey_stockholm Offline Send Email
Feb 4, 2012
11:17 pm

... Thanks for responding to the discussion. This and your previous post are absolutely first-rate. This is what I came here to hear on these lectures....
rafaelsanza Offline Send Email Feb 5, 2012
3:41 am

... It *could* be. I'm not sure I find it likely, but that's another matter... Yes, they have those 'human' traits (which really are the traits of social...
alicia h.
zooey_stockholm Offline Send Email
Feb 6, 2012
8:19 pm

... Yes, but separate them from humans and in only a generation or two, dogs will lose the ability to bark. (Well... according to you-know-who)... PK Enough...
petekaraiskos Offline Send Email Feb 6, 2012
8:54 pm

... Oh dear Dog, I remember that discussion......
alicia h.
zooey_stockholm Offline Send Email
Feb 6, 2012
9:05 pm

... Aaacccck no [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]...
Diana Winters
winters_diana Offline Send Email
Feb 6, 2012
9:10 pm

... Summarizing complex work like this is not easy, and discussion is likely to be negligible anyway. I thank you for presenting the lecture-course and the...
rafaelsanza Offline Send Email Jan 31, 2012
4:19 am

... There's more on Devachan and related matters in the middle chapters, but I agree with Diana's point that in a sense Steiner is rehearsing some of the...
Peter Staudenmaier
pstauden Offline Send Email
Jan 31, 2012
3:32 am

... Actually, these lectures from mid 1907 constitute a definite movement from the first to the second phase of Rosicrucian Theosophy, wherein the call to...
rafaelsanza Offline Send Email Jan 31, 2012
4:08 am

... Mr Dog is a bit behind in his email correspondence, but he was of course utterly appalled when we read this second lecture as bed-time story last sunday...
alicia h.
zooey_stockholm Offline Send Email
Feb 4, 2012
11:04 pm

... I remember (not from this particular lecture) something about the diamond being the "highest" member of the mineral kingdom, the rose is the "highest"...
petekaraiskos Offline Send Email Feb 5, 2012
1:28 am

... I wonder, in your case, if there is a life after Waldorf? Personally, I tried and failed with two musical instruments in school, both wind instruments,...
rafaelsanza Offline Send Email Feb 5, 2012
4:46 am

... With music, I'm not so sure. I mean, actually practicing it myself; it's never attracted me. Of course, you never know... But I've never regretted not...
alicia h.
zooey_stockholm Offline Send Email
Feb 6, 2012
8:28 pm

... Sure, use Vulcan! Also, check out Judith Von Halle- she says she is clairvoyant and received the stigmata- there seems to be tension and uncertainty of...
tankazoo Offline Send Email Jan 25, 2012
12:46 am

... OK, I didn't know Von Halle claimed clairvoyance... only that she appears to have the stigmata. PK Enough Already!!! ...
petekaraiskos Offline Send Email Jan 25, 2012
1:56 am

... Her books, if I understand it correctly (without having read them), are based upon her clairvoyant visions. She 'experiences' -- clairvoyantly -- what...
alicia h.
zooey_stockholm Offline Send Email
Jan 29, 2012
9:20 pm

... She also claims, from an informed source, to be the reincarnation of Edith Maryon, who worked on the Building and the 'Representative of Man' with Rudolf...
rafaelsanza Offline Send Email Jan 30, 2012
4:33 am

... Well, who could argue with that? PK Enough Already!!! http://petekaraiskos.blogspot.com/...
petekaraiskos Offline Send Email Jan 30, 2012
2:30 pm
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