Ed,
I never use weights; however, there is undoubtly some weight exercise that would
help you strengthen your quads. I ride a mountain bike for this and run
downhill hard whenever I get the opportunity. No matter what, there are so many
downhills on the VT100 course that everyone will have sore quads. The course is
fast if you can handle the downhills. There are people who have better times
here than Western States and others who have worse times. It all depends upon
how well you can run downhill. One thing that can make this course fast is that
a lot of night running is done on dirt roads rather than single-track trail.
You won't have to concetrate too much on your flashlight beam. Running on the
dirt roads also allows you to relax which can only help you run better, longer.
Talk later,
Jeff Washburn
Hi Ed...
Don't listen to Jeff...;-) Go out easy at Vermont...if I try to put money in
the bank at an ultra, then I die a vicious death later on, so I'm going out
easy.
In 98 at the first aid station, I think I wasn't even in the first 100, then
at the half I was in 42nd and I finished in 23rd..and I ran the 9th best
paced race. So I think that even paced running is the best way to go and is
what I am going to do this year, unlike last year when I was too big for my
britches and decided to "go for it"...and crashed and burned on the side of
the trail at mile 35...dropping at 42.
The start is on a rough ATV road for a couple of miles and one is best to
take it easy on that as You can turn an ankle in the confusion of the crowd.
Your going by runners and they're going by You...take it easy until the
first hill, which I think comes at about 2 3/4 miles, where You can then
walk for the first time...then just ease into a nice pace that will feel
easy for the rest of the day.
Boost is just another form of Ensure.
Instead of Advil, I take Tylenol...1 every 2 hours after 50 miles to ease
the quad pain...Any Nsaids like Advil, aspirin, etc can mess with Your
kidneys...just ask Deb.
For quad strength, I do first of all hill repeats. The downhills get the
quads and is the best specificity training You can do. A couple of times a
week I do single leg squats, maybe 3 sets of 20...then straight leg raises
(3x20)...then lunges (3x20) and then after a bit of rest 100 double legged
squats, all without weights. Along with this I do a bit of upper body stuff,
pushups, situps, bicep curls and tricep dips. I do more weights in the
weight room off season and just settle with the easier stuff now until maybe
January, where I'll return to the gym.
My guess about Vermont comparisons is that it is nothing like MMT, some
parts are close to Laurel but it is more closer to Old Dominion, but OD
seems to be harder for some reason...it's probably due to Sherman's Gap,
Veach Gap and Woodstock Tower all coming in the last 20 miles...
seeya soon,
Steve
PS: Tomorrow night I may be doing a night (9pm to approx 2am), full moon
training run up and back down Mount Washington in NH with Sue Johnston ...
Fun, Fun, Fun!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ed516p@... [mailto:ed516p@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 10:49 PM
> To: vt100@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [vt100] Vermont
>
>
> Thanks so much Martha, steve and Jeff: I think I saw you
> Jeff, at Laurel.
> Martha: Do you eat cold chicken and dumplings??? I dont think
> I could do that
> under optimal conditions. I know a few people that use ensure
> but I cannot
> handle it. What is Boost? Is it a formula or milk like
> product??I really am
> interested. I wish there was a food that had no taste, the perfect
> combination of all that is good for you and was easy to
> digest. But all the
> advice taken together is very helpful. It does confirm
> several things: there
> is great variablility among all of us (all an experiment of
> one....) but also
> some universals: water, electrolytes, some type of food/fuel,
> more are using
> clip than most other mixes ( such as the amino drink I got)
> and now I have
> heard quite a few advise against the advill and cafeine.
> Martha: I will also
> ty clif shots I never have. Jeff I don't know yet if I should
> go too hard on
> the first downhills but will see maybe easy and
> confortable.,I have done
> several years worth of marathon level running and now 50s + , yet I
> constantly start off too strong and regret it later. I
> probably dont have the
> discipline you do. Also ; what type of leg workouts do you
> recomend for
> downhill (quads on a press, a leg curl on your back or
> stomach?) besides hill
> running? Do you think workout with weights should also be
> tapered before a
> 100? Thanks to everyone, Vermont sounds like a fun run. BTW:
> I have heard
> that it is a relatively faster 100 than most and that instead
> of trails it is
> mostly dirt roads, pretty roads but very different from a
> trail run. The
> elevations seem close to many of the runs around the
> Virginia/Maryland area,
> are the hills about the same as MMT or Laurel? How does it
> compare to these
> two?
>
> As always thanks much
>
> ed
>
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to: vt100@eGroups.com
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>
Thanks so much Steve;
I really feel lucky to be able to get all of this valuable good advice from
folks I hardly even know, I know that that is part of the fun of running
sharing the trail with a great group of people. wish I was out there with you
for the night time run.
See you in Vermont
ed
Steve,
As you could probably tell, I was trying to tease Ed into going out slowly
because the first part is mostly downhill and he will have to consciously think
about slowing down. I will, however, still run the first 12 miles fairly hard
but not to get miles in the bank but, rather, because it is the coolest part of
the day and it is downhill. Two of the only reasons that I can finish these
things. OD is more difficult than Vermont becasue there is so much flat terrain
that you tend to run a whole lot more and pay the price later with tired legs.
You tend to forget to take walking breaks. Vermont dictates when to walk by
giving you a long uphill. As much as I love to run downhill, I sometimes can't
wait for an uphill so that I can walk again, which is what I do after the 12
mile aid station. The race begins from there.
Talk later,
Jeff Washburn
Hi Jeff...
Oh I knew what You were doing and is why I included the wink ;-)...
You'll probably be ahead of Me for awhile there as I'm going out real easy
on that ATV road, walking that first hill and then as the course flattens
out try to stay at an easy pace until CTB#1. If I am still feeling ok, I'll
try to start catching runners from there on in. That's what worked for Me in
'98 and also pretty much at OD, although I was a bit disappointed in my time
at OD...really thought I could come in around 21 hours, but that sick
session in the middle really slowed Me down until dark. Then with Greg
Loomis by my side I was able to run a little better (with the help of the
soup and coffee, of course).
I'm really looking forward to Vt this year...I feel like I am starting to
get a handle on how to run 100's.
If You aren't doing anything tonight, and Paula will let You, come up and
join Sue and I on Mt Washington. We're going to be starting around 9pm and
finishing around 2 am (my guess). We're running up and back down the auto
road the day before the race.
seeya all soon,
Steve
PS: I look forward to those hills, too. Especially after CTB.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thewashman@... [mailto:thewashman@...]
> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 4:20 AM
> To: vt100@egroups.com
> Subject: RE: [vt100] Vermont
>
>
> Steve,
>
> As you could probably tell, I was trying to tease Ed into
> going out slowly because the first part is mostly downhill
> and he will have to consciously think about slowing down. I
> will, however, still run the first 12 miles fairly hard but
> not to get miles in the bank but, rather, because it is the
> coolest part of the day and it is downhill. Two of the only
> reasons that I can finish these things. OD is more difficult
> than Vermont becasue there is so much flat terrain that you
> tend to run a whole lot more and pay the price later with
> tired legs. You tend to forget to take walking breaks.
> Vermont dictates when to walk by giving you a long uphill.
> As much as I love to run downhill, I sometimes can't wait for
> an uphill so that I can walk again, which is what I do after
> the 12 mile aid station. The race begins from there.
>
> Talk later,
> Jeff Washburn
Jeff,
I'm paying close attention to all these strategies of yours, since YOU ARE
THE MAN! and I figure you've finished more of these things already than I
probably ever will..
(race ya to the 12 mile aid station!)
deb
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thewashman@... [SMTP:thewashman@...]
> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 4:20 AM
> To: vt100@egroups.com
> Subject: RE: [vt100] Vermont
>
> Steve,
>
> As you could probably tell, I was trying to tease Ed into going out slowly
> because the first part is mostly downhill and he will have to consciously
> think about slowing down. I will, however, still run the first 12 miles
> fairly hard but not to get miles in the bank but, rather, because it is
> the coolest part of the day and it is downhill. Two of the only reasons
> that I can finish these things. OD is more difficult than Vermont becasue
> there is so much flat terrain that you tend to run a whole lot more and
> pay the price later with tired legs. You tend to forget to take walking
> breaks. Vermont dictates when to walk by giving you a long uphill. As
> much as I love to run downhill, I sometimes can't wait for an uphill so
> that I can walk again, which is what I do after the 12 mile aid station.
> The race begins from there.
>
> Talk later,
> Jeff Washburn
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive chemistry
> experiments.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/5532/6/_/380619/_/961158011/
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>
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Deb,
All right!!! Sounds like a challenge. My goal this year is to push as far as I
can. I intend to make my tenth finish under 24 hours or to crawl to the finish
from pushing too hard. You've already had plenty of heat training so we don't
care how hot it gets at VT.
Later,
Jeff Washburn
aha! you took my bait! My REAL plan is to force you out too fast, then
watch you die a slow death on the CTB loop! :-)
heh, heh...
deb
> -----Original Message-----
> From: thewashman@... [SMTP:thewashman@...]
> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 12:19 PM
> To: vt100@egroups.com
> Subject: RE: [vt100] Vermont
>
> Deb,
>
> All right!!! Sounds like a challenge. My goal this year is to push as
> far as I can. I intend to make my tenth finish under 24 hours or to crawl
> to the finish from pushing too hard. You've already had plenty of heat
> training so we don't care how hot it gets at VT.
>
> Later,
> Jeff Washburn
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Hey Gang: This list was about dead until everyone ran LHHT. I
looked at the archives from the internet at work yesterday and see
that I am way behind. My modem took a lightning strike through the
phone line (initial repairman's diagnosis without actually looking at
the modem, and probaly correct) on Monday and th eshop has had my
machine since. Have a lot to catch up on when I get the computer
home.
I am sending this short note from work and will get in on the
discussion later. Just hope everyone is recovered from LHHT and
looking toward VT.
Frank
Hey Frank!
Just as long as you don't step on a snake, get hit by a car, or do something
selfish, you should be in good shape. (if you're on the ultralist you'll
know what that all means...)
Are you all recovered from LH??? I was not sore at all, except for some
tight hamstrings/glutes, but felt surprisingly TIRED and sort of weak for a
day or two. I'm all better now, though. Tomorrow is a "long" run - maybe
13 miles... haven't done much of anything this week - I just moved, so I
have no trails right out the door, and am having to run on the, gasp, ROAD.
At least they are nice country type roads.
see ya in a few weeks....time to kick some butt!
deb
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frank Probst [SMTP:probstf@...]
> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 4:27 PM
> To: vt100@egroups.com
> Subject: [vt100] Frank is Lost
>
> Hey Gang: This list was about dead until everyone ran LHHT. I
> looked at the archives from the internet at work yesterday and see
> that I am way behind. My modem took a lightning strike through the
> phone line (initial repairman's diagnosis without actually looking at
> the modem, and probaly correct) on Monday and th eshop has had my
> machine since. Have a lot to catch up on when I get the computer
> home.
> I am sending this short note from work and will get in on the
> discussion later. Just hope everyone is recovered from LHHT and
> looking toward VT.
>
> Frank
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Act NOW before June 30 to win $5,000!
> Start grading businesses in your area to win.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/5524/6/_/380619/_/961187252/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To Post a message, send it to: vt100@eGroups.com
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Hey all,
I think I recovered well because of how easy I was forced to go on
Saturday. I've been on the bike a few times this week and ran 7 road
miles last night after a 30 mile ride and it felt pretty good except for
a sore hip from a pretty good mountain bike crash on wednesday. I've got
to do 20 road miles on foot tomorrow and a 100 mile ride on
sunday....all this new road stuff is strange again after spending so
much time on trails over the last 10 months! I just want to be used to
roads by the time I get to VT.
It's funny how on Saturday I swore up and down that I wasn't doing VT -
no way, no how! But now I can't wait! Thanks to Frank, Deb, Steve and
Johnny for their words of encouragement.
Eric
reno_debra@... wrote:
>
> Hey Frank!
>
> Just as long as you don't step on a snake, get hit by a car, or do something
> selfish, you should be in good shape. (if you're on the ultralist you'll
> know what that all means...)
> Are you all recovered from LH??? I was not sore at all, except for some
> tight hamstrings/glutes, but felt surprisingly TIRED and sort of weak for a
> day or two. I'm all better now, though. Tomorrow is a "long" run - maybe
> 13 miles... haven't done much of anything this week - I just moved, so I
> have no trails right out the door, and am having to run on the, gasp, ROAD.
> At least they are nice country type roads.
> see ya in a few weeks....time to kick some butt!
> deb
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Frank Probst [SMTP:probstf@...]
> > Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 4:27 PM
> > To: vt100@egroups.com
> > Subject: [vt100] Frank is Lost
> >
> > Hey Gang: This list was about dead until everyone ran LHHT. I
> > looked at the archives from the internet at work yesterday and see
> > that I am way behind. My modem took a lightning strike through the
> > phone line (initial repairman's diagnosis without actually looking at
> > the modem, and probaly correct) on Monday and th eshop has had my
> > machine since. Have a lot to catch up on when I get the computer
> > home.
> > I am sending this short note from work and will get in on the
> > discussion later. Just hope everyone is recovered from LHHT and
> > looking toward VT.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Act NOW before June 30 to win $5,000!
> > Start grading businesses in your area to win.
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/5524/6/_/380619/_/961187252/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to: vt100@eGroups.com
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: vt100-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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aharight Eric!
see you there!
deb
> -----Original Message-----
> From: eric ivey [SMTP:eciandmci@...]
> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 4:58 PM
> To: vt100@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [vt100] Frank is Lost
>
> Hey all,
> I think I recovered well because of how easy I was forced to go on
> Saturday. I've been on the bike a few times this week and ran 7 road
> miles last night after a 30 mile ride and it felt pretty good except for
> a sore hip from a pretty good mountain bike crash on wednesday. I've got
> to do 20 road miles on foot tomorrow and a 100 mile ride on
> sunday....all this new road stuff is strange again after spending so
> much time on trails over the last 10 months! I just want to be used to
> roads by the time I get to VT.
> It's funny how on Saturday I swore up and down that I wasn't doing VT -
> no way, no how! But now I can't wait! Thanks to Frank, Deb, Steve and
> Johnny for their words of encouragement.
>
> Eric
>
> reno_debra@... wrote:
> >
> > Hey Frank!
> >
> > Just as long as you don't step on a snake, get hit by a car, or do
> something
> > selfish, you should be in good shape. (if you're on the ultralist you'll
> > know what that all means...)
> > Are you all recovered from LH??? I was not sore at all, except for some
> > tight hamstrings/glutes, but felt surprisingly TIRED and sort of weak
> for a
> > day or two. I'm all better now, though. Tomorrow is a "long" run -
> maybe
> > 13 miles... haven't done much of anything this week - I just moved, so
> I
> > have no trails right out the door, and am having to run on the, gasp,
> ROAD.
> > At least they are nice country type roads.
> > see ya in a few weeks....time to kick some butt!
> > deb
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Frank Probst [SMTP:probstf@...]
> > > Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 4:27 PM
> > > To: vt100@egroups.com
> > > Subject: [vt100] Frank is Lost
> > >
> > > Hey Gang: This list was about dead until everyone ran LHHT. I
> > > looked at the archives from the internet at work yesterday and see
> > > that I am way behind. My modem took a lightning strike through the
> > > phone line (initial repairman's diagnosis without actually looking at
> > > the modem, and probaly correct) on Monday and th eshop has had my
> > > machine since. Have a lot to catch up on when I get the computer
> > > home.
> > > I am sending this short note from work and will get in on the
> > > discussion later. Just hope everyone is recovered from LHHT and
> > > looking toward VT.
> > >
> > > Frank
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Act NOW before June 30 to win $5,000!
> > > Start grading businesses in your area to win.
> > > http://click.egroups.com/1/5524/6/_/380619/_/961187252/
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > To Post a message, send it to: vt100@eGroups.com
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: vt100-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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According to the elevation map......12 miles? about 900 ft in 5
miles...
reno_debra@... wrote:
>
> Okay, here's a question.
>
> Where (at approx. what mile) is the biggest climb at Vermont?
>
> okay, all you vets, what is it?
> deb
>
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hmmmm.. then it's earlier than I thought.. you must be looking at the
elevation profile...
I was thinking that Blood Hill right at the end was one of the larger
climbs... or maybe it just seems that way!!!
deb
> -----Original Message-----
> From: eric ivey [SMTP:eciandmci@...]
> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 5:11 PM
> To: vt100@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [vt100] trivia question
>
> According to the elevation map......12 miles? about 900 ft in 5
> miles...
>
> reno_debra@... wrote:
> >
> > Okay, here's a question.
> >
> > Where (at approx. what mile) is the biggest climb at Vermont?
> >
> > okay, all you vets, what is it?
> > deb
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > TRAVEL FOR PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR! Get dozens of the best travel agents
> > competing for your business with our new FREE service.
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> >
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>
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> Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive chemistry
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Got my computer back last night, had to get a new modem and then
bought a surge protector that also included the phone line. This
is a lot of catch up rambling.
Congrats to Deb for first woman at LHHT and to Eric for continuing
with a turned ankle. Steve did a great job taking care of everyone
and Wes had a super run. Glad Martha made it to 57 with no problems.
That is one slow course (and I will probably be back next year).
For those of you on the Ultra list, I went out for my daily run today
in a 15 yr old cotton CB 10 miler T-shirt (guess I must be new at
running), saw no snakes (crawling walking or driving) or bears.
From all the posts, it sounds like everyone got over LHHT just fine.
Think I must be really getting old. I told Eric that after LHHT I
felt fine Sunday and through Monday morning, so I went for my morning
run on Monday. I cut my normal 7 back to 4, but picked up the pace
twice when guys passed me who would not nromally pass me. Ended
running four in 30 minutes and then peed blood. That got me drinking
big time which cleared that up. Just felt a bit ragged from pushing
the pace. By the late afternoon, my quads, hams and left hip joint
were really hurting and I could hardly get out of my chair. Walking
out of work to my car was an effort. Tuesday morning I had trouble
getting out of bed and walking. The left hip was the worst, but
quads
and hams hurt like hell. Even felt like I had a fever. Wednesday, I
started feeling better. Did not run Tues/Wed, but am back up to 7
again, Do not think I could have gone 13 today like Eric was
planning. Never had all that happen after a race before, but never
was this old.
In response to stomach problems, I routinely have trouble in ultras.
Cannot eat solid food. I do the water and Amino/Clip/Electrolyte
caps thing and the gels. I can get maple syrup down when nothing
else
goes, but everyone recommends against sugar. I can also suck on
gummy candies, but thta is more sugar. I do not take the salt caps
by
the clock like a lot of folks do, but rather more by how I feel. I
think you can take too much salt, so I try to take it when I need it.
Like Steve said, I do not think I could ever over hydrate during a
race. I just use fluids when running faster than my stomach will pass
them and do not drink when I am bloated (I do take a salt tab if the
fluids are sloshing around). I have used Ensure and Boost.
Sometimes
they stay down and sometimes they do not. I also know what worked
fine at my last race may not go down at all at the next race, so I
have to be adaptive at times. I do recommend the real food -
potatoes, soups and sandwiches, even seen folks eating hamburgers and
pizza, but only if you can handle that type food.
I have only been to VT twice, 84 miles the first time and all the way
the second, and do not remember any sections as rough as the rocky
parts of LHHT. I do remember some significant climbs and some
sections that were hard to follow in the dark when my brain was not
working real well, but the course is much much faster than LHHT. It
was cool in the morning both times and I ran very well for 20-30
miles then the temps climbed into the humid mid-80s. Both times, I
crashed in the heat and the last half was just like LHHT, survival
with lots of walking. I think I shouid be able to do VT in 20 hours,
but never came close. If it is hot, there is just no way I will run
well.
If anyone is still there, I guess I have rambled enough about me.
Looking foward to seeing you all at VT.
Frank
Hey Frank!
glad you're back in the e-world with us..
That's sort of scary about your post race 4 miler and the results. Hope you
are feeling better now.
I was just sort of tired and weak feeling on Sunday driving home - was fine
in the car, but when we'd get out and I;d stand up, would get slightly light
headed.
I just moved and hadn't even unpacked at home yet, so Monday was spent doing
that, and getting organized. Then Tuesday is my regular, LOOONNNNG day of
4:00am to midnight double shifts, so no run, but some weight training.
Wed. I did about 7-8 miles on the road and felt just fine. Did some
cross-training on Thursday, Friday I babysit my grandbaby, so just did some
yard work around the new place while watching her, and then today, it was
even hotter and humider (is that a word?) than LH ever was, and I did about
2 hours on trails, pretty slow, in spite of trying to work hard, just too
hot to move very fast. That loop normally takes me only about 1:45. Didn't
see a snake, but I saw a deer leg lying in the trail. Don't know where the
rest of him was! :-(
I'm still trying to figure out why LH seemed so slow. Cant come up with a
good answer.
Well, I hope I can do better at Vermont this year than last, guess I better
get off my butt and do some real training if that's ever gonna happen! I
can't imagine that it can be any hotter than it was, so maybe we;ll have
easier weather to deal with. And no horses... I hear the ride is scheduled
for a different weekend. I'll miss the four legged runners - very much liked
having them on the trail. Plus, there's nothing like a tub full of warm
water with horse slobber in it to cool off in during a long run. Yep, I'll
miss that for sure!
I use the maple syrup too, but had forgotten it at LH, and I missed it. I
usually use that early in the run, later on, it's just a crap shoot -
whatever will go down, I try to eat.
I know I just did a dumb thing at LH and got way behind on electrolytes.
Should have known better. That little episode cost me some time, but
hopefully I learned a valuable lesson. I could not eat much of anything
those last 25 miles - However, a whopper and fries went down mighty good
that next day!!!
And, Frank, you're not getting old, you're just getting meaner and
stubborner! :-)
deb r.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frank Probst [SMTP:probstf@...]
> Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 10:12 PM
> To: vt100@egroups.com
> Subject: [vt100] Catching Up
>
> Got my computer back last night, had to get a new modem and then
> bought a surge protector that also included the phone line. This
> is a lot of catch up rambling.
> Congrats to Deb for first woman at LHHT and to Eric for continuing
> with a turned ankle. Steve did a great job taking care of everyone
> and Wes had a super run. Glad Martha made it to 57 with no problems.
> That is one slow course (and I will probably be back next year).
> For those of you on the Ultra list, I went out for my daily run today
> in a 15 yr old cotton CB 10 miler T-shirt (guess I must be new at
> running), saw no snakes (crawling walking or driving) or bears.
> From all the posts, it sounds like everyone got over LHHT just fine.
> Think I must be really getting old. I told Eric that after LHHT I
> felt fine Sunday and through Monday morning, so I went for my morning
> run on Monday. I cut my normal 7 back to 4, but picked up the pace
> twice when guys passed me who would not nromally pass me. Ended
> running four in 30 minutes and then peed blood. That got me drinking
> big time which cleared that up. Just felt a bit ragged from pushing
> the pace. By the late afternoon, my quads, hams and left hip joint
> were really hurting and I could hardly get out of my chair. Walking
> out of work to my car was an effort. Tuesday morning I had trouble
> getting out of bed and walking. The left hip was the worst, but
> quads
> and hams hurt like hell. Even felt like I had a fever. Wednesday, I
> started feeling better. Did not run Tues/Wed, but am back up to 7
> again, Do not think I could have gone 13 today like Eric was
> planning. Never had all that happen after a race before, but never
> was this old.
> In response to stomach problems, I routinely have trouble in ultras.
> Cannot eat solid food. I do the water and Amino/Clip/Electrolyte
> caps thing and the gels. I can get maple syrup down when nothing
> else
> goes, but everyone recommends against sugar. I can also suck on
> gummy candies, but thta is more sugar. I do not take the salt caps
> by
> the clock like a lot of folks do, but rather more by how I feel. I
> think you can take too much salt, so I try to take it when I need it.
> Like Steve said, I do not think I could ever over hydrate during a
> race. I just use fluids when running faster than my stomach will pass
> them and do not drink when I am bloated (I do take a salt tab if the
> fluids are sloshing around). I have used Ensure and Boost.
> Sometimes
> they stay down and sometimes they do not. I also know what worked
> fine at my last race may not go down at all at the next race, so I
> have to be adaptive at times. I do recommend the real food -
> potatoes, soups and sandwiches, even seen folks eating hamburgers and
> pizza, but only if you can handle that type food.
> I have only been to VT twice, 84 miles the first time and all the way
> the second, and do not remember any sections as rough as the rocky
> parts of LHHT. I do remember some significant climbs and some
> sections that were hard to follow in the dark when my brain was not
> working real well, but the course is much much faster than LHHT. It
> was cool in the morning both times and I ran very well for 20-30
> miles then the temps climbed into the humid mid-80s. Both times, I
> crashed in the heat and the last half was just like LHHT, survival
> with lots of walking. I think I shouid be able to do VT in 20 hours,
> but never came close. If it is hot, there is just no way I will run
> well.
> If anyone is still there, I guess I have rambled enough about me.
> Looking foward to seeing you all at VT.
>
> Frank
>
>
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Good post, Frank - I love hearing from vets on how they do things. Like
Frank, my nutrition varies from one race to the next, depending on what
works on that particular day. My experience is mostly with long
distance triathlons but it's the same idea. Some days I can subsist
solely on gels and sports drink, other days I need something solid to
fill an empty stomach feeling. Today for instance, I did a local
Century ride (105 miles, actually) and had a great ride eating only 1
gel every hour, 1 whole banana, 2 bottles of Endurox, and water with
Succeed Caps (1 every 2-2.5 hours). I didn't eat anything solid, and
didn't take one sip of sports drink all day and never got nauseous or
low on energy at all. By the way, my 20 mile run yesterday turned into
a 10 miler because I was just plain tired. I guess my musculo-skeletal
system has some recovering to do yet. I'm gonna try to do a 20-25 miler
next weekend on the C&O canal path and see how that goes...
I'm gonna also spend some time on the stairclimber over the next 4 weeks
to supplement my strength training in preparation for those downhills.
It's also another way to spend time with my wife!
Eric
Frank Probst wrote:
>
> Got my computer back last night, had to get a new modem and then
> bought a surge protector that also included the phone line. This
> is a lot of catch up rambling.
> Congrats to Deb for first woman at LHHT and to Eric for continuing
> with a turned ankle. Steve did a great job taking care of everyone
> and Wes had a super run. Glad Martha made it to 57 with no problems.
> That is one slow course (and I will probably be back next year).
> For those of you on the Ultra list, I went out for my daily run today
> in a 15 yr old cotton CB 10 miler T-shirt (guess I must be new at
> running), saw no snakes (crawling walking or driving) or bears.
> >From all the posts, it sounds like everyone got over LHHT just fine.
> Think I must be really getting old. I told Eric that after LHHT I
> felt fine Sunday and through Monday morning, so I went for my morning
> run on Monday. I cut my normal 7 back to 4, but picked up the pace
> twice when guys passed me who would not nromally pass me. Ended
> running four in 30 minutes and then peed blood. That got me drinking
> big time which cleared that up. Just felt a bit ragged from pushing
> the pace. By the late afternoon, my quads, hams and left hip joint
> were really hurting and I could hardly get out of my chair. Walking
> out of work to my car was an effort. Tuesday morning I had trouble
> getting out of bed and walking. The left hip was the worst, but
> quads
> and hams hurt like hell. Even felt like I had a fever. Wednesday, I
> started feeling better. Did not run Tues/Wed, but am back up to 7
> again, Do not think I could have gone 13 today like Eric was
> planning. Never had all that happen after a race before, but never
> was this old.
> In response to stomach problems, I routinely have trouble in ultras.
> Cannot eat solid food. I do the water and Amino/Clip/Electrolyte
> caps thing and the gels. I can get maple syrup down when nothing
> else
> goes, but everyone recommends against sugar. I can also suck on
> gummy candies, but thta is more sugar. I do not take the salt caps
> by
> the clock like a lot of folks do, but rather more by how I feel. I
> think you can take too much salt, so I try to take it when I need it.
> Like Steve said, I do not think I could ever over hydrate during a
> race. I just use fluids when running faster than my stomach will pass
> them and do not drink when I am bloated (I do take a salt tab if the
> fluids are sloshing around). I have used Ensure and Boost.
> Sometimes
> they stay down and sometimes they do not. I also know what worked
> fine at my last race may not go down at all at the next race, so I
> have to be adaptive at times. I do recommend the real food -
> potatoes, soups and sandwiches, even seen folks eating hamburgers and
> pizza, but only if you can handle that type food.
> I have only been to VT twice, 84 miles the first time and all the way
> the second, and do not remember any sections as rough as the rocky
> parts of LHHT. I do remember some significant climbs and some
> sections that were hard to follow in the dark when my brain was not
> working real well, but the course is much much faster than LHHT. It
> was cool in the morning both times and I ran very well for 20-30
> miles then the temps climbed into the humid mid-80s. Both times, I
> crashed in the heat and the last half was just like LHHT, survival
> with lots of walking. I think I shouid be able to do VT in 20 hours,
> but never came close. If it is hot, there is just no way I will run
> well.
> If anyone is still there, I guess I have rambled enough about me.
> Looking foward to seeing you all at VT.
>
> Frank
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Frank,
Ed Schultze here again with one short question: I have heard twice now that
you 'use' maple syrup, Just how do you take it??? with pancakes???
thanks, just curious but might try it.
Ed
Ed, I can tell you what I do.. I just put in my gel flask. It's marked for
4 servings of about 2 tablespoons each. I just take a swig and that's about
one serving.
The maple syrup tends to get foamy looking from being bounced around but
that does not affect the quality or the taste.
deb r.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ed516p@... [SMTP:ed516p@...]
> Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 9:40 PM
> To: vt100@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [vt100] Catching Up
>
> Frank,
> Ed Schultze here again with one short question: I have heard twice now
> that
> you 'use' maple syrup, Just how do you take it??? with pancakes???
> thanks, just curious but might try it.
>
> Ed
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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The biggest climb is getting out of bed on Saturday morning to start the
race, all downhill after that.
-----Original Message-----
From: reno_debra@... [mailto:reno_debra@...]
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 4:52 PM
To: vt100@egroups.com
Subject: [vt100] trivia question
Okay, here's a question.
Where (at approx. what mile) is the biggest climb at Vermont?
okay, all you vets, what is it?
deb
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Deb,
One of the biggest and hottest clinmb is just after the Lincoln Covered Bridge
(the second covered bridge). The toughest climb is a couple of miles after Ten
Bear (First time) which goes straight up an old stream bed. There is also a
very long climb after Tracer Brook which goes on forever. And, of course, the
climb up Blood Hill ending around 88 miles. The final climb can be tough as
well but you usually smell the barn by then and get up it quickly.
Talk later,
Jeff Washburn
ha! as I recall from last year, the worst hill was that 12 inch step up to
the porta potties the day AFTER the run.. I remember seeing runners standing
there at the door to the port a potty, trying to decide if it was really
worth it.... now THAT would make a good cover photo for UR!!!
smiles,
deb r.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raney Maj Johnny R [SMTP:raneyjr@...]
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 7:48 AM
> To: 'vt100@egroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [vt100] trivia question
>
> The biggest climb is getting out of bed on Saturday morning to start the
> race, all downhill after that.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: reno_debra@... [mailto:reno_debra@...]
> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 4:52 PM
> To: vt100@egroups.com
> Subject: [vt100] trivia question
>
>
>
> Okay, here's a question.
>
> Where (at approx. what mile) is the biggest climb at Vermont?
>
> okay, all you vets, what is it?
> deb
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: thewashman@... [SMTP:thewashman@...]
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 4:23 AM
> To: vt100@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [vt100] trivia question
>
> Deb,
>
> One of the biggest and hottest clinmb is just after the Lincoln Covered
> Bridge (the second covered bridge).
>
>
Is that the one that goes up the field? I remember one that we
turned off a road onto a grassy trail going through a meadow up, up, up the
hill...
> The toughest climb is a couple of miles after Ten Bear (First time) which
> goes straight up an old stream bed.
>
Funny, I don't remember the up hill on this one, but I do remember a
long downhill - as I recall, I ran with Jose Wilke sometime around there -
he was on his way to his 14 hundred milers...
> There is also a very long climb after Tracer Brook which goes on
> forever. And, of course, the climb up Blood Hill ending around 88 miles.
> The final climb can be tough as well but you usually smell the barn by
> then and get up it quickly.
>
I do not remember feeling like Blood HIll was all that terrible...
or maybe I was just half unconcious by then....
Please God let it be cooler this year!!!
deb
> > The toughest climb is a couple of miles after Ten Bear
> (First time) which
> > goes straight up an old stream bed.
> >
> Funny, I don't remember the up hill on this one, but I
> do remember a
> long downhill - as I recall, I ran with Jose Wilke sometime
> around there -
> he was on his way to his 14 hundred milers...
It was here that I first hurled...on the top of that hill. I was mixing some
Clip and Rena Shuman was with Me and said "Hey, We're on the same diet" and
as She was saying that was pouring a cup of Coke and asked if I'd like some.
It sure looked good, so I said sure and as soon as I got it down, within
seconds, it came back up on the road. She then said "Oh, I guess that won't
be on Your diet"
I ate fruit and water until the night after that episode...
seeya 3 weeks from Friday,
Steve Pero
Hi guys,
I'm not sure if this will go through or not as I just subscribed. I
was psyched to see all the postings on the site for VT100! I recently
got into the race after being on the waiting list.
I read Deb's post about not needing trail shoes for this - I guess I
wondered, would folks advise *against* trail shoes? I ask as I just
ordered an additional pair of Montrail Vitesse's from the REI website
(no shipping/handling charges right now!) I had planned to take 2
pairs of Montrail's, and probably my ASICS 2040's (2050's? what number
are they up to now anyway?) I'm kind of nervous about using my ASIC's
shoes though, because I didn't really get blisters at Umstead until
after I switched from my Montrail's to my ASIC's. It may have been
due to the rain, though. :)
I was thinking about changing shoes both times through Camp 10 Bear
(assuming I make it there far either time!) and was debating about
what order to do it in...now I am wondering about using Vitesse's at
all. Any advice would be appreciated!
Karen
Karen,
If the Montrails work well for you then you should wear them. The
important thing is you wear a shoe that doesn't destroy your feet. I ran the
Mohican Trail this past weekend and it was very wet and muddy yet people
wore road shoes. I will be wearing my North Face Ultra 100's at Vermont. It
may be more shoe than needed but I don't have blister problems with them
either. I was at Umstead this year to and hopefully we will have better
weather at Vermont.
Vinny
>From: karen_claire@...
>Reply-To: vt100@egroups.com
>To: vt100@egroups.com
>Subject: [vt100] shoe question
>Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:55:31 -0400
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I'm not sure if this will go through or not as I just subscribed. I
> was psyched to see all the postings on the site for VT100! I
>recently
> got into the race after being on the waiting list.
>
> I read Deb's post about not needing trail shoes for this - I guess I
> wondered, would folks advise *against* trail shoes? I ask as I just
> ordered an additional pair of Montrail Vitesse's from the REI website
> (no shipping/handling charges right now!) I had planned to take 2
> pairs of Montrail's, and probably my ASICS 2040's (2050's? what
>number
> are they up to now anyway?) I'm kind of nervous about using my
>ASIC's
> shoes though, because I didn't really get blisters at Umstead until
> after I switched from my Montrail's to my ASIC's. It may have been
> due to the rain, though. :)
>
> I was thinking about changing shoes both times through Camp 10 Bear
> (assuming I make it there far either time!) and was debating about
> what order to do it in...now I am wondering about using Vitesse's at
> all. Any advice would be appreciated!
>
> Karen
________________________________________________________________________
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Karen,
Two years ago at Vermont, I wore Saucony 6000 Shadows and lived
to regret it. I had purchased my first pair of Vitesses so soon before
the race, I didn't even take them. Now I think they would have prevented
the awful blisters that did me in after Bill's barn and led to my dnf.
There was enuf torqueing around on the rough fields and trails (esp.
from 68-70 miles up that slipppery, rocky creek bed) that I believe
trail shoes would have been better for me the entire race. I'll be there
this year, and will be in the Vitesses the whole way. Of course,
other folks may do just fine in "road" shoes . . .
Hope to meet you there,
Sue Norwood
Billings, MT
Karen
A question for you...
were the blisters you got from your asics between the toe squeezie
blisters...if so the large toe box on the montrails maybe better.. narrow toed
shoes give me hot spots between the toes...
I am not a quick runner by any means and I am a big guy... so the extra weight
does not bother me... though I must admit... for more miles lighter would be
better if the fit is right...
Montrails make my toes sing and dance... good amount of room... A hint... leave
dry socks at drop stations... I got one foot totally wet at nipmuck... early
on... making for a good experiment....
my wet foot got blisters... I never get blisters... ever... a dry foot is a
happy one..
or at least... so I think.. Peace .... Stan
karen_claire@... wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I'm not sure if this will go through or not as I just subscribed. I
> was psyched to see all the postings on the site for VT100! I recently
> got into the race after being on the waiting list.
>
> I read Deb's post about not needing trail shoes for this - I guess I
> wondered, would folks advise *against* trail shoes? I ask as I just
> ordered an additional pair of Montrail Vitesse's from the REI website
> (no shipping/handling charges right now!) I had planned to take 2
> pairs of Montrail's, and probably my ASICS 2040's (2050's? what number
> are they up to now anyway?) I'm kind of nervous about using my ASIC's
> shoes though, because I didn't really get blisters at Umstead until
> after I switched from my Montrail's to my ASIC's. It may have been
> due to the rain, though. :)
>
> I was thinking about changing shoes both times through Camp 10 Bear
> (assuming I make it there far either time!) and was debating about
> what order to do it in...now I am wondering about using Vitesse's at
> all. Any advice would be appreciated!
>
> Karen
>
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