At the risk of sounding like an old curmudgeon now that I'm a
freshly minted 29 year-old, I've been really impressed with the
development that Steampunk has enjoyed over the past 7 or so years
that I've been around and hosting this e-group. Looking back on our
archives, it's sort of neat to see how we've gone from LEAGUE OF
EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN and all these really elementary discussions
about what is Steampunk at all to having Steampunk bands and fashion
and movies and comics and things all over the place. It's gone from
Alan Moore and Walt Disney to Abney Park and Optimus Prime, and it's
been one hell of a trip.
But one thing I fail to understand is this idea cropping up here and
abouts that Steampunk is some kind of "movement"... That it is in
need of some kind of "manifesto", or that it is somehow
legitimately "counter-cultural". Granted, several years ago, few of
us could really have envisioned Steampunk as a culture at all, as
opposed to simply a genre. Actually, I'm still not entirely
convinced that it is more than a genre of Science Fiction whose more
ardent fans cosplay, join e-groups and maintain websites... Not
really any fundamentally different from Trekkies or Otaku.
Which is probably why I'm a little flumoxed by Steampunk as a
manifesto-weilding, counter-culture movement. In particular, I can't
think of any interest of mine that is MORE driven by consumer
entertainment products than Steampunk. It was Steampunk that got me
back into the evil empire of Disney, for instance. The movies, DVDs,
comic books, paperbacks, costumes, CDs... It may be outside most
people's common interests, and may even involve a heaping spoonful
of DIY, but it is still consumer entertainment product, and as such,
not particularly counter-cultural. Especially as a culture based on
no functional predicate... If we wear goggles and petticoats, it is
for no purpose other than aesthetics.
Given that Steampunk as a culture rose from the fusion of Steampunk
as a genre with Gothic, Rivet and Cyberpunk cultures, is that
perhaps where the drive to cast Steampunk as a counter-culture came
from? But are we not ultimately fooling ourselves into making much
ado out of what is basically a nerdy fetish? Does Steampunk really
signify anything more than the meeting place of Sci-Fi Romanticism
and Victorian aesthetic values? Does it "mean something" or is it
just "this thing" we like?
At the risk of sounding like an old curmudgeon now that I'm a freshly minted 29 year-old, I've been really impressed with the development that Steampunk has...
... I wonder why you've decided to talk about this "manifesto" here. Why not on the other forum, where Ottens tried to write it? (BTW, we finally managed to...
I was was partly thinking of Ottens' attempt to get everyone under his roof, but it's not just him. It's been popping up all over the place, including projects...
... People are not sheep and they are not so easy to steal. They simply choose what's more suitable for them. I'm sorry to say that, but Your newsgroup and my...
This may be another example of much ado about nothing... Why does it have to be such an epic "thing" about internet dinosaurs and paradigm shifts in...
My $0.02 I've been interested in Victorian culture and history for as long as I can remember. I've also been interested in costuming since I was in Primary ...
... we're still quite ... Oh man! I would SO want a laptop like that! I sometimes think mine is too shiny! However while out shopping today I did find a very...
As regards steampunk as a movement needing a manifesto and driving force, punk itself has been going fairly strong without a manifesto. In fact the manifesto...
... force, punk itself has been going fairly strong without a manifesto. In fact the manifesto behind punk was always that it never had a manifesto -...
... From: Baralier "The thing with Goth though is that not even the people in the scene can agree on what "Goth" is. Is Goth the PVC-clad, platform-boot ...
... From: Krzysztof "Could you show us this "PUNK" element in steampunk? Because I can see it only in its name." Steampunk is called SteamPUNK because it's an...
My French friends told me once what was the real origin of the term "steampunk". Here's the earliest citation from 1987: "Jeter, along with fellow novelists...
... By that definition Goth is not a subculture either (as is its name originally referred to the novels with a gothic setting, which in turn got their name...
... turn got ... at the ... who ... I'm afraid you've lost the context of this discussion: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/steampunk2/message/2906 We were just...
... Funny I thought the context of the discussion was about whether steampunk could be a "movement" or a subculture. Quibbling over the meaning of the word was...
... I ... many ... after a ... Their popularity doesn't make them a subculture. They are in no opposition to anything and they don't put anything new to the...
... I think perhaps your understanding of the word "subculture" may be your problem. Subculture doesn't have to be in OPPOSITION to anything. Subculture: noun ...
... I think it's rather your problem. I'll try to prove it. ... from ... Wikipedia: "Subcultures are often defined via their OPPOSITION to the values of the...
In Sociology 101 class (actually 301 the way things are numbered up here), one of the bsic things were learned is that subcultures are sub- sets while...
... Trekkies are the worst example you could give. Their "trekkieness" is limited to the conventions. It doesn't influence their real lifes (except money they...
"Star Trek." You have spoken evil words. Here's the lye soap. You know what to do with it... ... Trekkies are the worst example you could give. Their...
Oh, and a hundred kilos of cavorite... ... I have no idea... You tell me! If any one of our restaurants were better than the rest, then customers would flocck...
Okay, it involves two Klingons, a Tellarite and a Tribble... ... I have no idea... You tell me! If any one of our restaurants were better than the rest, then...
... See, that's where you're wrong. The Bill Clinton impeachment hearings famously had a jury member who wore her Star Fleet uniform while on jury duty,...
... OK. So you, Ian and Baralier claim that steampunk is a subculture and maybe even a movement. Me, Doug and Scarecrow think it's not. Whom to believe? Let's...
after 52 emails fighting... can't you just agree to disagree? as a new comer to the group this does not seem like a very friendly introduction. I hope you do...