--- In virtualmodelers@yahoogroups.com, "switchengines" <jrs060@m...>
wrote:
> you should know that you car also order a UTLX
> Bottom Outlet Valve casting. I don't know what is provided in the
kit
> because I just ordered mine and have not received it yet, but you
> might as well order both at the same time.

Do you have the part number for these?

Also, can you please sign your posts.  We're a small group here and
I'd like to foster some comraderie, even if it's through the wires!

Thanks.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

tcschc wrote:

> I received Bill's photos and have scanned them.  I will post them as soon as
possible.
> I also finally photographed my car for VM 2.0 and will post that as well.

They're up!  Go to www.steamfreightcars.com and click on the first item under
'What's
New?'.  Once there, you can click on the photos to see larger images that you
can print out
if you'd like - they are high res scans.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

If everyone has rushed out to the local full service hobby shop
(orders direct from Percision Scale, that's the only way I've found
to get the parts) you should know that you car also order a UTLX
Bottom Outlet Valve casting. I don't know what is provided in the kit
because I just ordered mine and have not received it yet, but you
might as well order both at the same time.

I received Bill's photos and have scanned them.  I will post them as soon as
possible.
I also finally photographed my car for VM 1.2 and will post that as well.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim or Lisa Hayes [mailto:jim-and-lisa@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 6:54 PM
To: virtualmodelers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [virtualmodelers] Handrail stanchions

Bill, thanks for letting us know the part number for the handrail
stanchions. I was aware of them but didn't know the number. An email to
Precision Scale elicited no response at all. According to my 1996 Precision
scale catalog, they come in a package  of 36, just enough for 3-1/2 kits
with one left over <G>. Guess I'll order 2 packages.

I'm surprised that Frank was unaware of them. They were included in
Sunshine's #36.x insulated tankcar kit.

I agree that screwing the tank and frame together makes it much easier to
glue the two parts together but how did you align the tank with the
underframe to get the tank's screw holes aligned properly? I eyeballed the
alignment of the two parts, added a little ACC to hold them together, then
drilled the holes, then broke the ACCed joints so I could detail the frame
before permanently installing the tank.

--
Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon



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Bill, thanks for letting us know the part number for the handrail
stanchions. I was aware of them but didn't know the number. An email to
Precision Scale elicited no response at all. According to my 1996 Precision
scale catalog, they come in a package  of 36, just enough for 3-1/2 kits
with one left over <G>. Guess I'll order 2 packages.

I'm surprised that Frank was unaware of them. They were included in
Sunshine's #36.x insulated tankcar kit.

I agree that screwing the tank and frame together makes it much easier to
glue the two parts together but how did you align the tank with the
underframe to get the tank's screw holes aligned properly? I eyeballed the
alignment of the two parts, added a little ACC to hold them together, then
drilled the holes, then broke the ACCed joints so I could detail the frame
before permanently installing the tank.

--
Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon

On the real thing of course, the four straps were critical to keeping the
underframe and tank joined. But with screws used to reinforce and stabilize
all the glue joints, there role here is of no mechanical consequence. I
forgot t omention that before I glued the tank to the underframe, I did a
lot of dryfitting and drilled the four holes in the tops of the bolsters
where the wire/turnbuckle assemblies I created with .015 wire and the Grandt
Line brass turnbuckles would fit into. The assembly left extra wire to be
trimmed once the strapping operation was ready.

Already glued onto the bottom of the underframe are the two short lengths of
straps with a hole in each end. The instructions include the measurements
for locating where these fit and where the tank straps fit vis-a-vis the
tank, and included in previous posts are the corrected measurements for the
sort underframe. I accidentially transposed these measurements so the
componants on my short underframe model are slightly out of place. I decided
to live with this rather than trying to debond everything. It just did not
seem worth it. After I determined where the straps should lap over each
tank, I removed the rivets on the top of each tank. On the model this seemed
important to get a good solid bond along the length of each strap especially
since we will be drilling into it.

Now it is time to prepare the strapping material. I cut the two shorter
pieces intended to join at the bolsters first. There is a slightly recessed
area at each end and I made the cut at the very end of the recess. Save the
tiny piece of excess thin straping. Nestle into the recess and glue or
soldier a short length of .015 wire leaving some excess. I used serveral
diameters of small bottles/jars to begin forming a curve into these straps
but finished of by gently pulling through fingers and finger nails. The
final curviture does need to match the tank, but does need to fairly tight
while left straight on each end. what is not desirable is to have a crease
in the material. Test fit over the tank.

Test fit the turnbuckle assembly into their respective holes in the
underframes and test fit the strapping. It should be necessary to trim
excess wire from both the trunbuckle/wire assembly and the strap/wire
assembly. Work slowly and carefully test fitting all-the-while. The
objective for me is to have the strapping snug against the tank and the wire
on both assemblies trim so that I can see through the turnbuckles.

Well, I have to get to my paying job now. We will finish fitting the middle
strapping next time.

Keep working ont those kits!

I left off with preparing to do some detailing to the tank prior to gluing
it to the underframe. The first thing to do is to glue the two parts of the
tank together. Dry-fit the two parts together and then turn the parts around
and do it again. I have found that parts like these sometime fit better in
one orientation than another. When satisfied that I had a good fit, I glued
both tanks together, making sure I had marked the outside of each so that I
knew which was the "A" end and which was "B" so that when I screwed the
underframe to the tank, the holes would line up. A small diameter piece of
wire, .010 or .012, bent at the end is helpful in applying glue to the kind
of joint involved here.

The prototype photos show that the tank end grab irons are attached so the
bottom part sticks out further that the top attachment. I tried to duplicate
this on the model but it is very subtle. The ends grabs are up to the
modeler to bend. Sometimes I make a jig for this, but I was feeling
particularly sparky on the day I was doing this and simply inserted one bent
end into the tank and  visually determined where to make the second bend. I
have done this enough now that this goes quickly but making a jig is a good
way to go.

Next I screwed the underframes to their respective tanks, and applied ACC
everywhere there was a joint, again using the bent wire. Why a bent wire?
ACC does not rest at the very end of the long "Insect Mounting Pins" I use
to apply ACC. To get it on the very end of an applier, there needs to be a
bend. I will let someone who understands fluids explain. By using screws to
a-line, center and hold the tank, all the stress of this step is gone. Can
you imagine how hard it would be to hold something with one's hand exactly
right until enough glue is applied to let up on the hand pressure. The
screws do all the work here. Liberation!

Next comes attaching the bands, wire, turnbuckles, and then the handrail
stanchions. But first let me clue you into some parts to get. Grandt Line
#86039 is the brass version of their Delrin turnbuckle. Try to get these.
They are easier to work with, and can be glued or soldered. They are not
cheap but are worth the price difference. I think they come 18-20 to a pack.
The other parts are Precision Scale #32110, which are handrail stanchions in
brass from their narrow gauge tank car kit. They are a UTLX type and are
perfect. Frank Hodina did not know of these when he used the idea of cutting
apart A-Line sill steps. There are enough in one pack to do three or four
cars. Again well worth the price.

Ted should be getting my in-progress photos soon. I forgot to note when
applying the gussets at the corner of the decking at each end of the tank
that I used a black marker applied along the two outside edges to make it
easier to see these gussets as I glued them on. This marking is visible in
the photos. It can tricky lining them up because there is no contrast,
Marking the outer edges creates contrast.

All for now!

I'd like to get started on the first generic kit document.  I'll do a
boxcar first because the parts should be similar.  My choice is the
Westerfield kit #7702 Lehigh Valley M-15 CLONE, AC&F Production.
This has all the elements of a boxcar and has an unusual end which we
can use to highlight that individual kits have parts we cannot
include in a generic document.

Any thoughts or suggestions for a better starter?  This group may not
be the best forum for discussing these documents.  The purpose is to
discuss the UTLX Tank Car.  Any recommendations for another forum?

Ted, what is the best way for me to contact Westerfield to discuss
the document and using one of their kits?  You may contact me off
list if you wish.

Mike Boone

> The advantages are i) each manufacturer does not have to produce a
> similar document for each kit

This is a potential disadvantage. Some manufacturers may feel that they
don't have to improve their instructions or perhaps future kit instructions
may not be as good because of this document.

> One obstacle to this plan is permission from the manufacturers to use
> their products.

I would think most resin manufacturers would be happy to participate and
have their products included. All three of the biggest resin manufacturers
are enthusiastic about what they do and do it for the love of the hobby. Al
westerfield in particular seems to really cars about these issues. However
there are two in particular that do not get along and may not want to be
involved if the other is.

> At this time I am asking for comments about the proposal.  Is it a
> workable solution that will help beginners?

I think it would help.

> Does anyone have a better idea?

I think every kit should include a parts list identifying the parts in the
kit, including marking those not used. This would be the manufacturers
responsibility however, because it would have to be specific for each kit. I
think this is the ideal and would eliminate most (but not all) of the need
for the type of document you are speaking of. Unless and until this happens
this is a great idea.

One thing to include would be typical AB and K brake layouts. I have copied
the Cal Scale instructions for their brake detail pkgs. and refer to them
regularly when I have a question.

> Will manufacturers cooperate?

I think so. See above.

> Is storing the documents within the scope of the STMFC list?

Absolutely, There is a files page on Yahoo groups for just such a document.
Ted's site would also be an excellent place for it and an extension of what
he is already doing. I would add that Ted's site is probably better than
simply in the STMFC files section because I think more modelers would find
it.

Ned

4/25/03 3:06:08 PM, John R Gibson <gospeltrain1@...>
wrote:

Hi All.

While not a VM yet, I would like to add that this is an excellant
idea.

My experience has been with the Westerfield kits which come
with good history's and detailed instructions. Fuzzy pictures or
not, a detailed, exploded view would be a big help.

If what I've heard about the F & C/Sunshine kits is accurate, then
we do very much need a project such as this to "assist"
everyone in building an accurate kit.

If I can help, contact me off list. (Typing, converting files to PDF,
let me know)

James Cummins

e-mail: outbackranch@...


>
>
>  To:     virtualmodelers@yahoogroups.com
>
>  From:   John R Gibson <gospeltrain1@...>
>  Date:   Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:06:08 -0700
>  Subject:Fw: [virtualmodelers] Solution for Kit Instructions
>
>
>
>  Mike,
>
>  I'll go along with you and Ted in regards to your proposal Mike,
for you
>  have pointed out some very strong points that can be address
within the
>  virtualmodeler group and I'm also sure that Ted who has a
strong and
>  good relationship with the manufactures would be willing to
work at that end
>  of your proposal.
>
>  I truly can not see where any of the big three manufactures
would have a
>  problem with what you are proposing and it can only help
those of us who
>  have not built a resin kit for some time now or have never built
a resin kit
>  at all to learn just how do build such a model and straighten
the modelers
>  ability and also sell more resin kits and that's what the
manufactures want
>  I believe.
>
>  Heres hoping to read more of what you and Ted put togeather
real soon OK.
>
>  John "Hoot" Gibson
>  gospeltrain1@...
>  McMinnville, Oregon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  virtualmodelers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.


Thanks,

J

James Cummins
Technical Services Manager
LA Turbine Corp.
Phone 570 223-8469
Mobile 570 977-4723
www.laturbine.com
Expanding Innovation(c)

Mike:

I certainly think it is a worthwhile endeavor.  I will be glad to take
photographs of various kits and parts to aid in the "cataloguing".  I
can post the final draft that is created as a primer on resin kits on
the Steam Freight Cars web site, with links in to it from both the
Virtual Modelers area and the regular Modeling area.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

On Friday, April 25, 2003, at 10:20 AM, Mike Boone wrote:

>
> I have followed the Kit Instructions thread on the STMFC list.  I am
> a "newbie" to model railroading and sympathize with Jay Bingham.  The
> number of posts on this topic in the STMFC list shows this is an area
> where some effort will help our hobby.  I am assuming most people on
> this list are also on the STMFC list.
>
> I have a proposal to help beginners build kits.  We could use typical
> kit of each type of car and document the parts list and assemblies.
> For example, we could take a Sunshine boxcar, a Westerfield hopper,
> and a Funaro and Camerlongo gondola.  Then we photograph and document
> each kit as a "typical" kit stating individual kits will have unique
> elements.
>
> The advantages are i) each manufacturer does not have to produce a
> similar document for each kit and ii) a reference is available to
> builders.  The disadvantage is this is a generic document that never
> exactly matches a kit or answers every question.
>
> This document would include pictures of the resin sheet and other
> parts. The individual parts would be tagged with a number and a chart
> would relate the number to a part description.  This is similar to an
> exploded view parts list included with consumer items such as lawn
> mowers. The document could be placed in the STMFC files section, it
> could be reproduced by manufacturers and included in kits, and
> possibly be available on other web sites such as the NMRA site.
>
> One obstacle to this plan is permission from the manufacturers to use
> their products.  Some might object to pictures of their product being
> used.  Also, they could be concerned about errors or poor workmanship
> on the document leaving a negative impression of their product.
>
> I will perform the assembly of the documents.  I may need help
> producing acceptable quality pictures and I will surely need help
> identifying parts.
>
> At this time I am asking for comments about the proposal.  Is it a
> workable solution that will help beginners?  Does anyone have a
> better idea?  Will manufacturers cooperate?  What other obstacles may
> exist?  Is storing the documents within the scope of the STMFC list?
> We can discuss content and the technical aspects of producing the
> documents after we agree this is feasible.
>
> I posted this on the virtual modelers list to receive comments from a
> small number of interested people.  I have not built a resin kit
> before so I'm not sure this is worthwhile.  If necessary I can repost
> on the STMFC list.  Anyone on the list may forward this to other
> persons for comment.  Hopefully we can agree this is a worthwhile
> endeavor and I can begin producing documents.
>
> Mike Boone
>
>
>
>
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>
>
Ted Culotta
Global Supply Manager
Corporate Procurement - Logistics & Transportation
Apple Computer
1 Infinite Loop, MS: 35-DA3
Cupertino, CA 95014

408-974-5262
tculotta@...
www.apple.com

I have followed the Kit Instructions thread on the STMFC list.  I am
a "newbie" to model railroading and sympathize with Jay Bingham.  The
number of posts on this topic in the STMFC list shows this is an area
where some effort will help our hobby.  I am assuming most people on
this list are also on the STMFC list.

I have a proposal to help beginners build kits.  We could use typical
kit of each type of car and document the parts list and assemblies.
For example, we could take a Sunshine boxcar, a Westerfield hopper,
and a Funaro and Camerlongo gondola.  Then we photograph and document
each kit as a "typical" kit stating individual kits will have unique
elements.

The advantages are i) each manufacturer does not have to produce a
similar document for each kit and ii) a reference is available to
builders.  The disadvantage is this is a generic document that never
exactly matches a kit or answers every question.

This document would include pictures of the resin sheet and other
parts. The individual parts would be tagged with a number and a chart
would relate the number to a part description.  This is similar to an
exploded view parts list included with consumer items such as lawn
mowers. The document could be placed in the STMFC files section, it
could be reproduced by manufacturers and included in kits, and
possibly be available on other web sites such as the NMRA site.

One obstacle to this plan is permission from the manufacturers to use
their products.  Some might object to pictures of their product being
used.  Also, they could be concerned about errors or poor workmanship
on the document leaving a negative impression of their product.

I will perform the assembly of the documents.  I may need help
producing acceptable quality pictures and I will surely need help
identifying parts.

At this time I am asking for comments about the proposal.  Is it a
workable solution that will help beginners?  Does anyone have a
better idea?  Will manufacturers cooperate?  What other obstacles may
exist?  Is storing the documents within the scope of the STMFC list?
We can discuss content and the technical aspects of producing the
documents after we agree this is feasible.

I posted this on the virtual modelers list to receive comments from a
small number of interested people.  I have not built a resin kit
before so I'm not sure this is worthwhile.  If necessary I can repost
on the STMFC list.  Anyone on the list may forward this to other
persons for comment.  Hopefully we can agree this is a worthwhile
endeavor and I can begin producing documents.

Mike Boone

On Wednesday, April 9, 2003, at 07:01 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

> ADMIN question: Ted, should VM require as Netiquette that people give
> their full names on their email? I think it's just being polite.
>
Yes.  If people could please "sign" their posts, it would remove some
of the anonymity of the internet, especially for this group which will
probably never get too large.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Mboone (??)

Sunshine service can be very slow. If they have not cashed your check
then chances are they have no cars in their inventory. They make kits
in "batches", and when they're ready to run off a batch, they'll cash
your check and you'll get the kit in a couple of weeks.

I have had Sunshine orders take 90 days to be filled!


ADMIN question: Ted, should VM require as Netiquette that people give
their full names on their email? I think it's just being polite.


>I mailed an order form and check on March 11 but have not received my
>kit.  Sunshine has not cashed the check.  Is there some way to
>contact Sunshine and ask if they received my order?


Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts

mboone1041 wrote:

> I mailed an order form and check on March 11 but have not received my
> kit.  Sunshine has not cashed the check.  Is there some way to
> contact Sunshine and ask if they received my order?

I know that Martin is feverishly trying to get these kits out the door.
Demand for them has been high.  He will get it out to you in the very near
future.  The only way to reach him is via the mail.  He won't deposit your
check until he has your kit(s) ready for shipment.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

I mailed an order form and check on March 11 but have not received my
kit.  Sunshine has not cashed the check.  Is there some way to
contact Sunshine and ask if they received my order?

1)  I have added several new members who expressed an interest in joining the
group and building the UTLX X-3.  If you were added, but wish to be removed,
please let me know and I will remove you from the list.

2)  You may have seen a post from Tim O'Connor yesterday about an ATSF flat car.
That was the project for VM 2.0.  Don't be alarmed or think you are in the wrong
place.

3)  I have removed the gentleman that spammed us about non-train related drivel
from the list.  This will be treated the same way in future.

For those of you whom I have just added, please review the messages for the
error in the instructions and Bill Welch's quite thorough details about how he
has been assembling these cars so far.  He is going to take some photos that I
will post on the web site for all to see.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

I am waiting for a good day to take some photos. I will send tem to Ted to post

Rev. Bill Welch
Associate Minister
Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
2709 Hunter Mill Road
Oakton, VA 22124
703-281-4230
bwelch@...

I built my AT&SF Ft-J's with the K brakes as supplied even
though I model post-1953. Does any know how the AB brakes
were laid out when these cars were re-equipped? Thanks.

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Sterling, Massachusetts

Dear Reverend:

I really am appreciating your detailed account of building the tank
car.

I am wondering if your are taking progress photos?  If so, would you
mind posting these?

Still waiting for my kit!

David Newcomb
Seattle

My apologies to everyone for my seeming inability to direct my building
expereinces to the correct address. I hope I now to have it stright in my head.
Here goes.

I was intending to build one of the two cars I am building with two full
crossbearers for variety, but when it came time to apply the air tank and triple
valve, I reevaluated. I was not in the mood at the time to build a bracket to
attach to the end of the air tank that would then allow it to be attached to the
crossbearer. So I cut off the crossbearer at the center sill and installed the
two channel brackets. Even with this arrangement it was necessary to glue a
short piece of .020 x .020 styrene to the channel nearest the brake cylinder to
provide something for the air tank lug to hang on.

Speaking of air tanks, to me the ends of the new Bowser casting are too squared
off, so I substituted one from a Detail Assoc./Grandt Line set. (I have 200
sprues of these I bought for 50 cents each in a bulk purchase arrangement from
GL with some other modelers. I would encourage another group to do this. The
group I was a part of bought 800 I think.) Once the air tank or reservoir was
attached, I used a piece of styrene to span the two channels as per the
instructions. I attached the triple valve and after the glue had set bent the
wire to pipe both underframes. (The brake cylinder goes on after the car tank is
attached and the tank straps are installed, as do the brakes levers and rods.)

Initially, I was glad to see that Sunshine had done the stirrup steps as
photoetch, but when I cut these from the fret and bent them, it was clear to me
that they were too fragile for my taste. I had planned all along to install
these last but wanting to envision how they hold up I went ahead and folded a
couple to see how fragile they would be.

Instead I took out the reliable "A-Line" type A and stuck them in a gas flame
before I re-bent them. I begin by flattening them out. I have a pair of small
pliers that are squared off at the tip. Their width is just right to fold the
straightened out metal over on each edge to achieve a little wider stirrup. As I
fold each side over, I use some metal tool to really push the folded piece
against the edge of the pliers end to get a good 90-degree corner. I then use
the pliers like a vise to round some of each side strap to the contour of the
existing end so that the reshaped stirrups will seat at the proper depth. I
takes me longer to explain it than to do it. The result is a step that is sturdy
and has the right profile. I glue some .030 x .030 styrene to the inside of the
underframe where the steps will be attached so there would be plenty of surface
area to drill into. Once the holes were located, drilled, and the step inserted,
I ACCed .010 x .030 styrene next to each leg of the stirrup to model the
attachment strap. I am terrible but I also used rivets harvested from an Athearn
boxcar to model the bolt heads.

I am about ready to do a little work on the two tanks, to be followed by
permanently installing them to the underframe and adding the tank straps.


Rev. Bill Welch
Associate Minister
Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
2709 Hunter Mill Road
Oakton, VA 22124
703-281-4230
bwelch@...

Bill accidentally sent this to the VM email address on the
steamfreightcars.com web site.

Ted

Begin forwarded message:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Welch [mailto:bwelch@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 9:18 AM
> To: virtualmodelers@...
> Subject: X-3 underframe
>
>
> I have made good headway on the two underframes I am building. I am
> using
> the full end walkways on one, and one the other the abbreviated style.
> With
> the abbreviated style I decided to thin the inside edges of each to
> achieve
> a finer look by beveling the two edges with a blade and then a file. I
> liked
> the result.
>
> A more important thinning are the plates that cover the outside
> corners of
> the underframe and end walkways. Although already thin, I reduced their
> thinness by about half, which comes closer I think to the prototype and
> gives that area a finer look.
>
> Some filing is necessary to achieve a good fit for the end walkways or
> platforms, and I still had a couple of distracting gaps. I shoved .005
> styrene into these gaps and drenched them with Testors to melt the
> styrene
> into the gaps. When the styrene had stiffened up again, I trimmed it
> with a
> sharp blade.
>
> In looking at the photos of the cars, I noticed that the bracket that
> secures the brake cylinder has a plate covering the open area. I used
> .005
> styrene to create this and harvested rivets from the end tack boards
> of an
> Athearn 40 foot boxcar car to replicate the 3 bolt heads that show
> fairly
> prominently in the photos.
>
> The train line is very visible on these cars and after bending the
> wire to
> achieve a pleasing look set about to detail the train line. Yes I am
> crazy
> and bifurcated (I don't model cut levers for example). To replicate the
> fittings on the train line I drilled several holes in a length of .040
> x
> .020 styrene and one at a time cut them until they had facets that
> more or
> less made them resemble a large nut. This detail is only important on
> the
> part facing out. (I am assuming all of us are working with something
> like an
> Opti-Visor.) I put three of these on each train line. I then cut some
> .005
> styrene into strips and wrapped three around the wire, crimping each
> with my
> fingers and then hitting inside surfaces with some Testers and crimping
> again with my fingers, using just enough glue to bond but not melt it.
> I
> will call this part the tab. I folded the .005 styrene so that the tab
> was
> on the inside of the train line. After everything had stiffened up. I
> trimmed the tabs with a sharp blade. The results were three discrete
> bulges.
> As I noted I am crazy, but challenging ourselves is fun too.
>
> I used two "U" shaped pieces of .012 wire per train line to form
> brackets to
> secure each train line to the underframe. I gently filed the tops of
> these
> brackets flat to make sure they did interfere with the tanks when they
> are
> screwed on.
>
>
>
>
> Rev. Bill Welch
> Associate Minister
> Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
> 2709 Hunter Mill Road
> Oakton, VA 22124
> 703-281-4230
> bwelch@...

Ok,...disregard my request for part numbers...I found what I needed on Ted's
site...just had to look a little harder (my wife always tell me that!)

Best wishes all!

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD

I seem to have fallen off Martin's mailing list and did not get a flyer on
these cars; I was hoping he would be at Timonium this weekend but Bill Welch
advised Martin will not make it.

Can someone provided the Kit Nos. for whatever variations there are on this?
I downloaded the form Ted has on the web site but there are no part numbers.

I know I'll be behind the 8-ball by the time I get my kits, but will give it
my best effort anyway!

Thanks,

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD

> Resent-From: vm2_1@...
> From: Bill Welch <bwelch@...>
> Date: Mon Mar 24, 2003  9:49:19 AM US/Pacific
> To: vm2_1@...
> Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ;
> Subject: Re: starting early and more building progress
>
>
> Ned Carey was kidding me this past weekend in Pittsburgh for starting
> early on the UTLX tank cars. In my excitement I admit I completely
> missed the fact that there was a starting date. Sorry, but here I go
> again!
>
> I thought I would make these additional comments since they involve
> some screw types and lengths many may not have right at hand.
>
> I have proceeded to mount the couplers. Usually I do not bother to tap
> screw holes in resin for 2-56 screws, but given the thinness of the
> casting, I did tap the holes all the way through the casting. I
> secured everything with a NWSL "Nylon" screw. I like to use nylon in
> these kinds of situations because it easy to cut off the excess length
> that extends thru the casting on the top of the underframe. Once I had
> cut off the excess, I removed the screw and used a file to shorten it
> a little more to ensure it will not be too long. The riveted cover
> plate will cover the screw hole, but I also want to make sure the
> screw will not distort this cover plate when it is tightened.
>
> Using the technique described in my previous email to find the
> center-point of the bottom of the tank casting, and having marked it
> lengthwise, I extend the mark to the end of this casting, so when it
> placed on the underframe, I still know where the mark is. I then
> determine where the centerline of the top of the underframe is. Lining
> the mark on the underframe with the mark on the tank bottom, I satisfy
> myself that I have measured everything accurately. I then calculate
> and measure to ensure that the tank is centered end to end on the
> underframe and mark the underframe on each end. I now know where the
> tank should be to be exactly centered on the underframe for both its
> length and its width.
>
> In examining the bottom of the tank casting, part of the support
> gusset cast on the center of each tank was damaged on one of the two I
> am building. This flange is thin and I am not surprised part of it was
> broken. I decide to fill this in and reinforce the whole area by
> gluing a .030x.040 piece of styrene behind each flange (.030x.030 and
> .010x.030 laminated together). After this sets up, I use a mill file
> to even out the styrene with the flange. The benefit of this
> reinforcement is that it provides more contact area for the
> underframe/flange connection when it is time to glue.
>
> Instead of the cast pieces, I used .040x.040 styrene strip on Step 1.E
> as I did not want to fool with the clean up. Take the easy road
> whenever you can with these kits. I used liquid styrene glue to
> position and tack them into place, and the came back with ACC to
> permanently secure them. Once this had set up, I used a razor blade
> and then a knife blade to scrape the styrene until I had the contour
> that would allow the tank on each underframe to nest on the underframe
> so the flange in the middle was in contact with the underframe.
>
> Then I used masking tape wrapped around the underframe and tank bottom
> to secure the two together with the tank bottom centered end to end
> and side-to-side. I made a mark on one end on both the underframe and
> tank bottom so that that end of the tank will always be oriented to
> the same end of the tank. Starting with a small drill bit, I drilled
> through the underframe and tank bottom, and used two or three larger
> sizes to increase the hole until I finished with a #50. I taped all
> the way through the underframe but only a short distance into the tank
> bottom. I then used a fairly long 2-56 screw to screw into the tank
> bottom. Now when I am eventually ready to glue the underframe and tank
> together, there is absolutely no guesswork involved. I will simply
> screw the two assemblies together, and then glue. Engineering the
> model in this way make life easier in the long run.
>
> Various types and lengths of 2-56 screws are in the "Walthers"
> catalog. I strongly recommend keeping a variety on hand because tank
> cars, flat cars, and hoppers present special challenges when using
> screws not encountered in building a house car where everything is
> hidden, or when one wants to screw two subassemblies together.
>
>
> Rev. Bill Welch
> Associate Minister
> Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
> 2709 Hunter Mill Road
> Oakton, VA 22124
> 703-281-4230
> bwelch@...
>
>
Ted Culotta
Global Supply Manager
Corporate Procurement - Logistics & Transportation
Apple Computer
1 Infinite Loop, MS: 35-DA3
Cupertino, CA 95014

408-974-5262
tculotta@...
www.apple.com

> --Original Message-----
> From: Bill Welch [mailto:bwelch@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 12:04 PM
> To: virtualmodelers@...
> Subject: building UTLX X-3's
>
>
> There is an adage in Dentistry (and probably in other professions):
> "like
> things at like times." This was shared with me by Dr. Frank Peacock,
> freight
> car historian/modeler and dentist, after I shared with him my
> philosophy of
> building two models at once when the opportunity presents itself.
>
> Building UTLX tank cars is the perfect situation to apply this logic
> and why
> I am building both the short 8,000-gallon and the 10,000-gallon kits
> at the
> same time. I have put in about three hours already, including reading
> the
> instructions through twice, and making marks were I want to pay special
> attention to be careful.
>
> After soaking and scrubbing the castings in warm soapy water, rinsing,
> and
> letting them dry, I began by cleaning up the major components. The two
> parts
> of each tank fit together well with a minimum of cleanup and are a
> tribute
> to the ability of the material involved as well as the technical
> prowess of
> the person doing the casting. On the other hand, the two domes are too
> small
> for the cavity in each tank body, which is going to take up time
> shimming.
> This is a major disappointment. I will cover how I handled the
> shimming when
> I get there.
>
> Cleaning up the underframes came next. Although they are two different
> lengths, the clean up is the same. For this kind of task I prefer a
> blade
> that is not too sharp. Resin cuts easily and the blade does not need
> to be
> super sharp, which sometimes results in cutting into something one had
> not
> intended to cut into. Once most of the flash is gone I use a mill file
> to
> dress up the center sill and a smaller file on the inside of the area
> where
> the walkways will fit. While they are in my hands I mark the bolsters
> for
> drilling. Personally I have found it difficult to locate the center
> point on
> a curved surface. This is how I have resolved it. I take a scrap piece
> of
> very thin styrene strip and lay it over the bolster from side to side,
> one
> end flush with one end of the bolster. I then smooth it out with my
> finger
> to follow the curved contours of the bolster until I get to the other
> side.
> I mark the styrene strip at the other side where the bolster ends. I
> cut the
> excess off and bend the styrene so that both ends line up, and then
> crease
> it in the middle. The crease is the center point and when the styrene
> strip
> is laid out over the bolster again, the mark locates on the bolster the
> exact center point. The same piece of styrene worked on both bolsters
> of
> both underframes.
>
> I used the same technique to determine the centerline for the bottom
> part of
> the tank, since I have to know where the centerline is if it is going
> to be
> squarely aligned when joined to the underframe. (I could eyeball it
> but I
> don't want to guess.) I measured for both ends of the tank and made my
> marks. Drawing a straight line on what is in effect a cylinder is done
> by
> placing it lengthwise in a 90 degree angle, like a door jam or a piece
> of
> metal angle, like that on the NWSL true sander, and marking it with a
> pencil
> or fine line marker. I have a .005 marker I use.
>
> Ultimately, I will want to use long screws to help join the underframe
> to
> the tank for strength. When I am ready, I will use tape to hold the
> underframe and the bottom part of the tank in position, and I will
> drill
> through the underframe and into and through the tank bottom.  This
> requires
> calculating where to position the tank on the underframe from end to
> end
> also, but this an easy measurement to come up with. I used this method
> to
> assemble the second Sunshine insulated tank car I built, and being
> able to
> precisely position the tank to the underframe made it much easier when
> it
> came time for the final and permanent assembly.
>
> I also had time to clean up the rivet plates that fit over the draft
> gear,
> the top cover for the bolsters, the bottom cover of the underframe
> center
> sill and the corner wood walk ways. I used a scraping action to clean
> up the
> one side of the bottom cover of the underframe center sill since it is
> cast
> standing up with detail on both sides. The scraping avoids destroying
> any of
> the rivet detail on the edge. I plan to build one model with the full
> wood
> platforms; the other with the L shaped platforms. A mill fill dresses
> these
> up quickly once they are trimmed from the flash. These fit down into
> the
> frame.
>
> As I contemplate beginning the assembly of the underframe, I pause for
> a hot
> chocolate.
>
>
> Rev. Bill Welch
> Associate Minister
> Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Fairfax
> 2709 Hunter Mill Road
> Oakton, VA 22124
> 703-281-4230
> bwelch@...
>
>
Ted Culotta
Global Supply Manager
Corporate Procurement - Logistics & Transportation
Apple Computer
1 Infinite Loop, MS: 35-DA3
Cupertino, CA 95014

408-974-5262
tculotta@...
www.apple.com

> Resent-From: vm2_1@...
> From: Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
> Date: Mon Mar 17, 2003  8:46:11 AM US/Pacific
> To: vm2_1@...
> Resent-Cc: recipient list not shown: ;
> Subject: Error in instructions for X-3
>
> Here is the error that Frank found in the instructions:
>
> I found an error in paragraph 1.h. of Martin’s instructions for the
> X-3. The dimension noted of 4’-3’’ on either side of the car
> centerline for the placement of the running board supports is only
> good for the longer framed car. DO NOT USE THESE DIMENSION ON THE
> SHORT FRAME CAR! On the short frame car the running board support is
> 3’-6” from the car centerline on the “B” end and 2’-6” from the car
> centerline on the “A” end. The tank bands are 3’-0” on either side of
> the car centerline. You can see this difference in the photos of cars
> #8302, #9210, #17298 and #17670 of the Prototype Data Sheet.
>
> Regards,
> Ted
>
> Ted Culotta
> Global Supply Manager
> Corporate Procurement - Logistics & Transportation
> Apple Computer
> 1 Infinite Loop, MS: 35-DA3
> Cupertino, CA 95014
>
> 408-974-5262
> tculotta@...
> www.apple.com
Ted Culotta
Global Supply Manager
Corporate Procurement - Logistics & Transportation
Apple Computer
1 Infinite Loop, MS: 35-DA3
Cupertino, CA 95014

408-974-5262
tculotta@...
www.apple.com

Well it looks like some of you have manged to negotiate the transition.  It's
April 1 and time to get started. I will forward a few of the messages that
related to building the X-3s so that they are in the archives for all to see.

Regards,
Ted Culotta