----- Original Message -----

From: Ashwin Rawal

To: vedic-wisdom@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 11:02 AM

Subject: Re: [vedic-wisdom] Re: Curious about the real meaning of Bijaksharas: Still not satisfied

 

Dear Sir,  The questions and answers both are beyond my reach. Where I am? At a child stage yet? Dr.Ashwin Rawal --- On Mon, 19/1/09, Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr@...> wrote: From: Narasimha P.V.R. Rao <pvr@...> Subject: [vedic-wisdom] Re: Curious about the real meaning of Bijaksharas: Still not satisfied To: vedic-wisdom@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 19 January, 2009, 9:25 AM Dear Sundeep, As you eloquently say, "if mantra is to have ANY enlightening effect, mantra must resonate in the mind itself". You are correct that "we are no longer talking about physical energy (sound), we are talking of non-material mental energy - the mental equivalent of sound in the mind". Mind is the connection between what you called external universe and what you called the deeper non-material universe. Mind has access to ALL realms of experience, but it normally focuses on the physical/material realm. Though mind can theretically be focused on ANY realm of experience through effort, it is not easy. Let me give a small analogy. If Brahman is like the ocean bed, supreme cosmic being (who thinks all that all of us think, who desires all that all of us desire, who knows all that all of us know, and who does all that all of us do) is like the bottommost layer of ocean. Various deities are like intermediate layers. Various objects of the external material world that are perceived by our senses are like the ripples on the surface of the ocean. Objects on the surface perceive other objects on the surface around them. One's body and the senses attached to it are an object on the surface in the analogy. When one's mind identifies "self" with that body and its senses, it perceives objects as perceived by those senses. When one successfully detaches mind from that self-identity and identifies with another object in the ocean in a different layer, one may perceive a different reality. An example was in yesterday's mail on mystical experiences. Just as the ocean is vast and deep and has infinite objects at infinite depths, this universe has infinite possible self-identities. As one's self-awareness is focused on a specific object, one has specific experience/percepti on of self and "others". When self-awareness changes to a different object, one has a different experience/percepti on of self and "others". However, this is theoretical discussion for most people, as they cannot imagine self-awareness changing. The self-awareness of most people is focused on their body with its senses and their experience/percepti on of self is the body and "others" is various objects as perceived through the senses attached to that body. But, it IS possible for one's self-awareness to go from an object on the ocean surface in the analogy to a layer in the mdidle of the ocean or even a bottommost layer. Repetition of a mantra is only a tool for calming down the mental activity that keeps feeding this self-awareness. Mind is identifying with a physical object made with gross matter (body). By keeping it busy with a particular repetitive activity, you have a chance of cutting off its identification with that object. As an analogy, suppose a kid saw a rope right next to him and thought it was a snake and was scared. You may tell him no, but still the thought "snake is next to me" will keep scaring him. If you keep him busy with an activity that he immerses in, the thought of snake next to him may vanish from his mind slowly. Once the identification of mind with the body is cut off or weakened, mind will have to identify with something else. Imagine a frog clinging to a rock on an ocean surface. If it is afraid of slipping and holds on the rock tightly, its thoughts are on the rock always. If the frog stops thinking about rock and becomes absorbed in some other thoughts, it may slip from the rock. If it starts sinking in the ocean, it will get hold of something else on the way to the ocean bed (otherwise, it will drop all the way to the ocean bed. Though that is not a bad thing at all, the frog is afraid of it and instinctively grabs something on the way!!). Like in that analogy, mind will get a hold of another object (on the way to ocean bed, i.e. Brahman) and develop another self-awareness, i.e. a perception of "I" and "others". In the example from last night, the perception of "I" was not the body, but a tiny particle in a tremendous wave of energy that reverberated with the sound of a beejaakshara. The perception of "others" was millions of particles of the same wave of energy engaged in making the same sound and aborbed in the same sound. Let me come back to what you wrote: "if mantra is to have ANY enlightening effect, mantra must resonate in the mind itself. ... We are no longer talking about physical energy (sound), we are talking of non-material mental energy - the mental equivalent of sound in the mind." Mind or individualized consciousness is just a window to the universe. If a room has window on the east, you see what is on the east. If a room has window on the west, you see what is on the west. And so on. The sound of the mantra IS resonating somewhere (actually, everywhere) in the universe. A mind with a strong self-identification with a body is bombarded by the sense inputs of that body, just as a room with an open window on the south is filled with cold wind blowing from the south and bombarded by the floodlights installed outside on the south. You have to close that window and open window elsewhere to get something else. If self-identification with body is weakened, the bombardment of sense inputs weakens and the window of mind can open to the mantra that resonates in the universe. When I said earlier that a vaccum should be created in the mind for the mantra and the deity to fill, this is what I was referring to. * * * Different objects of the universe, including human beings and deities, are made up of gross/subtle matters of different gunas. Each object of the universe has different perceptions of "I" and "others". Each object of the universe has different energies, i.e. different abilities to affect interactions between "I" and "others". The energy of an object is the energy that brought that object into being. Deities are objects with tremendous energy. But one cannot get close to a deity unless one overcomes attachment to individualized ego and its potential energy. One needs to convert that potential energy into kinetic energy that helps one break away from that ego and approach a deity. In the long run, none of those objects is permanent. None of those energies is permanent. In terms of the previous ocean analogy, one may cling on to an object on the way to the ocean bed temporarily, but the final goal is to not view any object as "I" and not consider any energy as "mine". The final goal is to drop down all the way to the ocean bed and stay there, without any sense of "I" and "others" or "energy". * * * Please realize two fundamental things: (1) The energy of the mantra is experienced *after* the sadhana is fruitful and one overcomes ego. The mantra is an indirect tool for overcoming ego. If one thinks that he is doing a powerful mantra and its energy will free him from ego, one is mistakened. One MUST put in conscious effort with constant contemplation to weed out ego and pride to make one's sadhana fruitful. Mantra does not replace that need. Instead, it works hands in hand with that and depends on that. (2) When one succeeds in overcoming ego and experiencing a mantra, one should not think that "I did it" or "I created that energy in my mind". One does not do anything (other than *undoing* what one did previously, viz putting together of a complex and weird self-identity called a body with so many things attached to it and so many pre-conceived notions about the world). The energy of the mantra IS already there and resonating everywhere. When mind experiences that energy and fills with it, it is simply *tuning* to something pre-existing and not really creating something or doing something. It is like a radio tuning to a different channel and one listening to newer and better music or a driver driving on a different scenic road and viewing beautiful and better scenery. * * * > If all repetitive chanting were equal, mantra shastra would be > 1/2 a page of text, not more. I never said they were equal. Perfect absorption into different mantras fills the mind with different kinds of enegies (associated with different deities). So there is a lot of difference to chronicle. In terms of my ocean analogy, the possible experiences when one is absorbed into a mantra are as vast as an ocean. But, the essence is this: Mind has to be perfectlty absorbed into the mantra and a vacuum has to be created in the mind for the mantra and its deity to fill. Other factors related to the specific details in each mantra are secondary. I want to de-emphasize all other things and emphasize this essential thing, i.e. control over ego. One wanting to drive a car on various roads needs a detailed book giving all the maps. But my point is that one should first learn driving. What makes one an expert driver going to various places is not possession of thousand maps but the basic driving skill. One not knowing driving will crash the car even if he possesses thousand maps. One good at driving may manage without maps too. People emphasize complicated, mystified and nuanced knowledge and forget the basic essence. * * * I want to categorically state that the nuances of mantra shastra are neither necessary nor sufficient for one to achieve spiritual progress. One may spend decades learning the nuances and yet not achieve anything. If the basic essence is paid attention to, one can achieve despite not knowing the nuances. In fact, the nuances may come naturally to one who gets some mastery over the essential factors. The proof of the pudding is in eating it. Choose any mantra or beejaakshara and meditate on it silently everyday, for 2 hours (atleast one hour). Sit comfortably with the back, neck and head erect, eyes closed and mind as calm as possible. Avoid all physical movement and remain as still as you can. If you have an urge to move, suppress it as long as you can and keep pushing the limit everyday. Try your best to focus the mind on mantra. Do this meditation sitting in the same place, facing the same direction and at around the same time everyday. Do this for one year and see for yourself if it does something to you or not, despite not paying attention to the technicalities and nuances! * * * Some nuances are not irrelevant completely. But they are irrelevant to most people. For example, people religiously mention beeja, shakti and keelaka of the mantra and do detailed anga nyaasa and kara nyaasa. Those are all relevant only to a person of a high level of self-awareness, which is not the case with most people. Let me give an analogy. There may be some nuances related to how to lift the foot up and land the foot while running, to maximize the speed. They are irrelevant to a small baby who cannot yet walk and only crawls. When the baby learns how to walk and later how to run, those details will most likely come to him naturally. Evem without them, one will run fine, perhaps a little slower. Thus, there is no point in trying to learn the nuances of running when one is still crawling. In fact, unneeded focus on those nuances of running may even make one's learning of walking very slow - it is a distraction! * * * I answered whatever questions I could answer and felt like answering. What we need today is not people who can discuss theory in detail and have an intellectual understanding of things. In fact, these things are beyond intellectual comprehension. Practical sadhana is far more important. Do not wait till you get technicalities correct. Just start sadhana as I mentioned earlier and commit 1-2 hours of your time everyday and see what happens. What sanatana dharma and Vedic wisdom need today is a handful of sadhakas who *experience* mantras at the highest level and yet remain free from pride and ego and become purified instruments of the Mother to carry out Her will with actions of far-reaching consequences without a trace of ego in those actions. This is possible not by learning technicalities and nuances, but by developing devotion, surrender and conscious effort with constant contemplation. Best regards, Narasimha ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana Spirituality: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vedic- wisdom Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - ----- Original Message ----- From: "vedicastrostudent" <vedicastrostudent@ yahoo.com> To: <vedic-wisdom@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 1:49 PM Subject: [vedic-wisdom] Re: Curious about the real meaning of Bijaksharas: Still not satisfied > Dear Narasimhaji, > Thank you very much for your reply. I am still not satisfied with > the answer though, especially since I am sure I can get a lot more > out of you :-) > > See, the explanation that "repetitive chanting calms/anchors the > mind" is only a "placebo" of an answer. It does not do any justice > to the obviously highly nuanced mantra shastra. If all repetitive > chanting were equal, mantra shastra would be 1/2 a page of text, not > more. So this explanation does nothing more than appease the > atheistic scientific mind, one that is unwilling to consider (let > alone accept) the non-material part of the universe. > > I am looking for a deeper answer that addresses the above concerns. > Please bear with me in reading the following paragraph in its > entirety before replying - I know I am not presenting new > information to you, but merely presenting things as I know them, so > you may reply/correct my thinking as appropriate: More > specifically, when I read Vivekacudamani, I am led to believe that > the manifested universe is all and only the quintuplicated tattwas. > The gross human being is no different (i.e. is also quintuplicated > tattwas), but his consciousness is the link to a deeper non-material > universe. In that deeper universe, which is the source of the > material universe, there is the subtle body, which has, among other > things, the antahakarana, which has the > reflecting/consider ing/theorizing mind that we are all so familiar > with. It experiences the quintuplicated universe, yet is directly > part of the unquintuplicated universe! At an even deeper level, even > this subtle body is a manifestation of the causal body - mahat, > which consists of the three gunas. The manifesting/ enlivening agent, > so to speak, is the non-dual Brahman, or pure undifferentiated > consciousness. > > Now, in the above scheme of things, how do mantra and diety figure? > Spoken/chanted/ heard mantra is nothing more than an "energic" > activity of the most external part of the universe i.e. the > quintuplicated tattwa universe. Clearly this energic activity by > itself, *if* limited to the quintuplicated universe, is useless. So, > clearly, we must accept that if mantra is to have ANY enlightening > effect, mantra must resonate in the mind itself, which is part of > the antahakarana. Right? Now, since mind itself is NON-material, > what does resonate mean at the mind level? We are no longer talking > about physical energy (sound), we are talking of non-material mental > energy - the mental equivalent of sound in the mind. > > It is this non-material mental energy that I wish to understand when > I ask about mantras and beejaksharas. What is this energy? Is it > tattwa, prana, chitta, ahamkara, manas, karma, what? Why do specific > harmonics of it correspond to specific dieties? What exactly *is* a > diety in terms of the above terminology? What is the cause-effect > relationship between harmonics of this energy and the disintegration > of the subtle and causal bodies. > > Hope you appreciate the direction/thrust of my querying.. > > Sincerely, > > Sundeep > > --- In vedic-wisdom@ yahoogroups. com, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" > <pvr@...> wrote: >> >> Dear Sundeep, >> >> This is quite relevant and not at all inappropriate. Let me give > the crux of >> the philosophy. >> >> * * * >> >> The mind is like a monkey. It wanders from one place to another > very rapidly >> and gives varied emotions such as pride, shame, anger, sadness > etc. When the >> mind becomes nearly calm, steady and stable, one can experience > the bliss of >> finding the true Self. The goal of all spiritual sadhana - japam, > homam, >> dhyanam, contemplation and various rituals - is to enable the mind > to become >> calm. >> >> At first, one cannot make the mind stable and calm. All one can do > it to tie >> the monkey (mind) to a fixed pole (mantra). The monkey still moves > around, >> but its motion is restricted. Once it goes far, the thread tying > it to the >> pole stops it from going further away. Similarly, when one tries > to focus on >> a mantra and one's mind wanders to other things, one constantly > brings it >> back to the mantra and thus one's mind tries to stay on the mantra. >> >> Thus, mantra is an anchor for the mind to focus on when it tries > to become >> calm and stable. >> >> After trying enough, just as monkey tied to a pole may stop > jumping around >> and fall asleep holding on to the pole, the mind may stop thinking > of so >> many things and become absolutely calm and stable while repeating > a mantra. >> When all the thoughts cease and some level of silence comes to the > mind, one >> experiences some level of bliss. >> >> * * * >> >> Thus, mantra is a combination of sounds that is repeated by the > mind to aid >> mind to stop wandering from one thing to another thing. The goal > is to give >> an anchor for the mind to focus on, instead of jumping everywhere. >> >> Various sound combinations can be used for this purpose. For > example, one >> can even repeat "I want to find true Self" constantly. Every > combination of >> sounds is capable of making the mind calm after repeating it > enough. Sound >> patterns making sense in various languages were used by some > saints and >> messiahs from time to time in the past to obtain bliss and those > sound >> patterns are revered as being sacred in various religions. >> >> Compared to long sequence of sounds, short sound patterns are > easier to >> focus the mind on. If you repeat a mantra with 32 or 24 > letters/syllables, a >> part of the mind is responsible for changing from one letter to > another and >> there is more mind activity even in a state of high mental focus > on the >> mantra. If you repeat a single syllable constantly, the task is > simpler for >> the mind and it is easier for the mind to shut down various tasks > of the >> mind and become close to being still and silent. >> >> Various syllables can be used for this purpose. These syllables > are called >> beeja aksharas. >> >> * * * >> >> Beeja means a seed. Beeja akshara means a seed syllable. >> >> When mind has absolutely no activity and becomes completely still > (i.e. >> ceases to exist!), one realizes the true Self (Aatman or Brahman). > When mind >> has very little activity and becomes nearly still (i.e. still > exists, but in >> a very high state of focus and calmness), one realizes different > pure >> manifestations of cosmic being. >> >> When one meditates on a beeja akshara and attains the above state > of high >> mental focus and calmness, one's mind has no thoughts other than > the >> repetition of the syllable. Each syllable acts as a seed > corresponding to a >> deity. The energy of that deity fills one's consciousness when > one's mind is >> filled with that syllable and has no other thoughts in it. In > other words, >> each deity is a personifications of the state of a mind that is > focused on >> the sound of a specific beeja with no other thoughts in it. >> >> * * * >> >> Of course, if one's mind has many thoughts while repeating a beeja > akshara >> (or any mantra in general), one may experience a lot of emotions > and things. >> But, when one's mind becomes nearly still and calm with no thought > in it >> (other than what is needed for repeating that sound), we can say > that one's >> individual ego has been replaced with that of a deity and the > deity has >> filled one's mind. >> >> Thus, focused meditation on a beeja akshara can make one > experience the >> energy of a deity. >> >> * * * >> >> Which syllables make one experience which energy was well- > understood and >> catalogued by ancient Hindu sages nicely. >> >> Many mantras other than beeja aksharas were also experiemented by > rishis, >> who understood the nature of energy experienced by one's mind when > one's >> mind is completely filled with the sound of the mantra and all > other >> thoughts leave the mind. >> >> So we need not experiment newly. We can use the knowledge > discovered by >> rishis and go further. >> >> Best regards, >> Narasimha >> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - >> Do a Short Homam Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ homam >> Do Pitri Tarpanas Yourself: http://www.VedicAst rologer.org/ tarpana >> Spirituality: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/vedic- wisdom >> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro. home.comcast. net >> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAst rologer.org >> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagan nath.org >> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> > Dear all, >> > This is my first time posting on the vedic-wisdom group. Hope the >> > topic is not inappropriate. >> > >> > I was wondering if someone could tell me or point me to articles >> > which explain to some depth what a Bijakshara is, what are the >> > Bijaksharas and why they are said to be powerful. >> > >> > Specifically, I also want to know - why do only some >> > sounds/syllables qualify as Bijaksharas? Also, what exactly is > the >> > difference between a mantra and bijaksharas? Are all bijaksharas >> > automatically mantras? Do mantras consist only of bijaksharas? > What >> > effects do bijaksharas have that mantras dont have and vice > versa? >> > >> > As you can see, I want a detailed explanation. . Any and all > details >> > will be highly appreciated. . >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Sundeep