Greetings folks, this is my fist contribution to the list.  I look forward
to long and stimulating discussions in the future!  The article is on the
Y2K bug and it's possible environmental and social ramifications; of
obvious importance to us urban ecologists.  ;-)

Take care,
Noah

PS - A bit about myself.  I'm an undergrad at Brown University studying
Ekistics.  Ekistics is the science of human settlement, coming from the
Greek root "oikos", meaning house or home.  It integrates architecture,
anthropology and ecology.

******
Y2K and Environmentalism

By Jim Lord

Because of its embedded processor aspect [the microchips in diverse
equipment, which may fail in January 2000], the Year 2000 Computer Crisis
poses what is likely the greatest environmental threat in history.
Embedded processors control countless industrial processes that produce or
use pollutants, poisons, or toxic substances.  The facilities in which
these processes are common include,

         Manufacturing plants
         Chemical plants
         Pharmaceutical plants
         Mines
         Oil and gas wells, pipelines and tankers
         Oil, gas and ore refineries
         Nuclear and fossil fuel power plants
         Nuclear waste treatment facilities
         Nuclear weapon facilities
         Sewage treatment plants
         Water treatment facilities
         And many others


The April 1998 issue of World Oil Magazine says [in describing Y2K problem
correction efforts],

   "It is estimated that the average oil and gas firm, starting today,
   can expect to remediate less than 30% of the overall potential
   failure points in the production environment.  This reality shifts
   the focus of the solution away from trying to fix the problem,
   to planning strategies that would minimize potential damage and
   mitigate potential safety hazards."

This statement implies that

     The oil and gas industry won't finish in time.
     There will be environmental damage and personal safety hazards.

The cold, clammy realization that we're not going to fix the embedded
processor problem is sinking in.  No matter how well we do in the United
States, much of the world has little chance of fixing the embedded
processor component of Y2K.  The environmental implications are nothing
short of staggering.

A critical question - where's the environmental movement.  The answer is -
nowhere to be found.  At this point, they don't have a Y2K clue but that
won't last long.  Awareness of the Year 2000 Crisis is growing
dramatically.  Before long, the environmentalists will realize what's
happening and when they do,

         They're going to go stark, raving nuts.

They're going to want to shut down everything and here's the great irony -
they're probably right.  We probably can't take the chance of massive,
simultaneous, global failures in environmentally sensitive systems.  At a
minimum, we need to start testing these facilities by turning the computers
ahead to the Year 2000 in a carefully controlled and isolated fashion.

When the environmentalists finally get up to speed on Y2K, they will play
an immensely important role in the public discourse.  Theirs will be one of
the loudest voices on the scene.  With their potent, international
political clout and their superb, global organization, their Luddite

tendencies will rise to the surface.

The drama of this confrontation will be compelling and political leaders
all over the world will be trapped in a fascinating corner.  Save the world
by shutting it down and ruining the global economy.  Meanwhile, all those
tens of billions of clock chips keep ticking, ticking, ticking.

(Just a passing thought - consider poor Al Gore.  Both ends of his stick,
technology and the environment are about to turn malodorous.  It'll be
fascinating to watch him as well.)

My Tip of the Week is to watch the environmental movement like a hawk.
When they become fully engaged in this issue, they will put immense
pressure on the politicians and could very well determine the nature of the
broad political response to Y2K.

Good Luck!


September 8, 1998 - Westergaard Year 2000 Y2K Tip of the Week #54

http://www.y2ktimebomb.com/Tip/Lord/lord9836.htm

_ _ _ _ _

Notes from Tom Atlee

I find the above article on the environmental movement provocative in more
ways than one.  For example, although Jim Lord and I hold quite different
political views, we're standing in the same spot on this issue.

A retired naval officer, Lord is an electronics and software professional
and one of America's leading experts on Y2K.  His writings laud technology,
free markets and community self-reliance.  He has obvious distaste for our
large federal government and clearly doesn't think of himself as an
environmentalist.

While I share his dreams of self-reliant communities, I favor democratic
constraints on both technological development and corporate power, and I
believe the federal government has a role to play in these things.  I am
also a passionate environmentalist.

So it intrigues me that -- unbeknownst to each other -- we were both
working on major, remarkably similar Y2K-environmental articles at exactly
the same time, almost down to the day.  My article -- far more
comprehensive but less focused and dynamic than Lord's -- can be found at

http://www.co-intelligence.org/y2k_asenvirnmtalissue.html
For those who may doubt Mr. Lord's motives or evidence, I want to stress
that he is not talking through his hat.  Here is a recent statement from
Senator Robert Bennett, chair of the Senate Special Committee on the Year
2000 Technology Problem, about problems with embedded chips
(microprocessors) in large toxic facilities

	 "I read a story recently about a major oil company that tested one
of its
	 oil refineries. They found that the refinery had 90 separate
systems that
	 somehow used a microprocessor. Many of these were key systems. Of
the 90
	 systems, they were able to come up with detailed documentation on
70. Of
	 these 70, they determined that twelve had date dependent embedded
chips. Of
	 the twelve, four failed a Y2K test and will have to be replaced.
Had any of
	 the four failed on January 1, 2000, they would either have
completely shut
	 down the plant or would have caused a high level safety hazard
which would
	 have caused other systems to shut it down.  What is really worrying the
	 company's experts now is the other 20 systems. They don't know what
	 functions the chips in these systems have and are leaning towards
replacing

	 them all. This happens to be a relatively modern plant."

	 http://www.senate.gov/~y2k/statements/61298bennett.html

Stories like this are beginning to crop up in many places.  The respected
environmental research journal RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & HEALTH WEEKLY, in an
article "THE Y2K PROBLEM, PART 1" in their issue #604 of June 25, 1998,
cited ST. LOUIS POST DISPATCH columnist Virginia Hick's interview* of
well-known Y2K industrial consultant Peter de Jager
(http://www.year2000.com)

	 ".... De Jager talked recently with an executive of a company that
makes a
	 volatile gas --he would not identify the company more specifically
--who
	 told de Jager how his plant discovered the seriousness of faulty
embedded
chips.

	 "The plant found a chip that failed when the date was moved
forward. When
	 the chip failed, it shut off a valve that would have shut down the
cooling
	 system. A cooling system shutdown, the executive said, would have
caused
an explosion.

	 "That was great news," de Jager said. "Because they checked--there
will be
	 no explosion. They're replacing the chips."

	 "De Jager worries about the companies that are not checking," Hick
wrote.

	 * Virginia Hick, "Expert Warns Computer World is Running Out of Time to
	 Meet 2000; Code is Broken and Needs to Be Fixed Fast, He Says," ST.
LOUIS
	 POST-DISPATCH Nov. 19, 1997, pg. C8.

RACHEL'S also quotes an April, 1998, FORTUNE report describing the Y2K
vulnerability of chemical systems

	 "The precision and interdependence of process controls in chemical
plants,
	 for instance, make a Rube Goldberg fantasy contraption look simple.
Let a
	 single temperature sensor in the complex chain of measuring
instruments go
	 cuckoo because of a year 2000 problem, and you'll get a product with
	 different ingredients than you need--if it comes out at all."

	 Gene Bylinsky, "Industry Wakes Up to the Year 2000 Menace," FORTUNE
April
	 27, 1998, pgs. 163-180. Available on the web at
	 http://www.pathfinder.com/fortune/1998/980427/imt.html

RACHEL'S editor, Peter Montague, "worked 5 years in the Computing Center at
Princeton University" and said at the start of his article that "We've been
hearing about this problem for some time now, but like most people we have
been ignoring it.... [and have been] very suspicious of alarming
predictions about the year 2000."  After reviewing the evidence, however,
he concluded that

	 "If we lived in a community with one or more chemical plants, we
would be
	 asking our local government to hold public hearings on the Y2K problem,
	 seeking public assurances from local plant managers that they
really have
	 this problem under control. What written plans do they have for
assessing
	 these problems, and how large a budget have they committed to
solving them?
	 What progress can they demonstrate? Does the plant manager have
sufficient
	 confidence in the plant's safety systems to be at the plant with
his or her
	 family at midnight December 31, 1999, to celebrate the new year?"

Another story comes from Australia.  When engineers simulated Y2K tests of
the water storage facility at Coff's Harbour, they discovered that the
system that regulates purification of the water would have dumped all the

purification chemicals into the water on 1/1/2000 causing a mix toxic
enough to kill the entire population of it's supply area.


http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/1452

Although billions of dollars are being spent on Y2K corrections, there is
mounting evidence that many remediation efforts -- even those involving
"mission critical systems" -- will be far from complete when we roll over
into the next century.  This includes manufacturing plants, nuclear
facilities, chemical storage facilities and dozens of other systems, both
public and private.

Oddly enough, even the widely advocated focus on "mission critical systems"
may prove problematic.  Leading Y2K consultant Douglass Carmichael notes
that, "There is the danger that what looks like a trivial program output
may in fact be a critical piece of another program in another part of the
system. The same for critical systems, where a minor system to some is
critical to others.... We may be at the point where faster work on
remediation, triage and focus on 'critical systems' is leaving the overall
system of systems in worse shape than if we had done nothing, with a long
legacy in the future of work to be done to fix the many problems currently
being introduced through rapid and undisciplined or blind work."  ("Y2k
week - week 66" at http://tmn.com/y2k)

There is no way to know FOR SURE how bad Y2K problems will be until the
accidents happen.  Then, of course, it will be too late.  Will there be
numerous major catastrophes, or just a few minor toxic emissions?  We COULD
learn more about the Y2K status of toxic facilities, but NO ONE is
currently monitoring this, worldwide.  Without immense public pressure, it
isn't likely any government will.  Any grassroots monitoring that will be
done -- and any pressure that will get official monitoring done -- will
have to be generated by the environmental movement.

This is not something we have time for.  It is disorienting to contemplate
such a gigantic additional responsibility when our plates are already
overfull with current programs which we have, with great pains, carefully
selected over many other desperately needed efforts.

Unfortunately, we have to make the time, and soon.  This predicament is
faced by EVERYONE who faces Y2K.  Y2K dissolves business as usual.  All
around us corporations and city governments are having to transfer millions
of dollars from productive activities to deal with expensive Y2K compliance
operations that don't do anything for them except keep them in business.
The prospect of dealing with Y2K is not pleasant.  But it IS both necessary
and urgent.

I personally don't think there is a higher priority on the environmental
agenda.  Furthermore, I think that perhaps 90% of environmental programs
can gain energy by incorporating Y2K-related issues -- a point I emphasize
in my environmental overview at

http://www.co-intelligence.org/y2k_asenvirnmtalissue.html

But this toxics problem is its own situation.  If we don't handle this one,
we may end up in very hot water, indeed.

So I'm going to volunteer as a willing messenger of Jim Lord's challenge.
I'm going to suggest to all my environmental colleagues, right here and

now, that we grab this bull by two horns... and ride it

1)  We can make sure that any potentially toxic facility that cannot
demonstrate 100% Y2K compliance by November of 1999 is shut down and that
contingency plans for public/environmental safety are in place well before
that.  Given proper motivation and guidance from us, we can count on a lot
of grassroots activism to happen in local communities concerned with the
threat of toxic releases from Y2K breakdowns.   AT THE SAME TIME, we can
make LOTS of noise about the need for environmentally-responsible business
practices and technologies.  With Y2K's help, we can point out --
graphically, locally -- just how unwise our toxic economy is, and how
obvious the alternatives are.  Thanks to growing awareness of the dangers
of Y2K, the public mind is being prepared to hear our messages.  If Y2K
delivers a few Chernobyls and Bhopals (which is highly likely) -- and IF we
have set the stage well -- we can expect unprecedented and (finally)
successful public demand for a transition to ecologically benign,
sustainable economies and technologies.

b)  We can push very strongly for community responsibility, community
empowerment, community resilience, community preparedness, community
economics, community everything.  Strong, sustainable, self-reliant
communities are key to making it through whatever Y2K has to offer us.
They are also the keystones of a sane, sustainable society.  Y2K will be
making this clearer than ever before.  From community-centered agriculture
to community-friendly corporate charters to the end of multinational trade
empires, Y2K provides every society in the world with compelling motivation
to do the locally-empowering things we've been advocating for so long.

It seems to me that with Y2K we have more to gain -- and more to lose --
than at any other time in our history.

Let's choose wisely.

Tom Atlee

Sept 28, 1998


Tom Atlee  *  The Co-Intelligence Institute  *  Oakland, CA

http://www.co-intelligence.org  *  http://www.co-intelligence.org/Y2K.html



Atlanta Holds Largest Y2K Awareness Event

By Jim Lord
September 28,1998

www.y2ktimebomb.bom


The Y2K Preparedness Movement surged dramatically recently
when Atlanta, Georgia hosted an enthusiastic and intense crowd of
nearly 3,000 people at a community Y2K awareness event. After
an evening session at City Hall for community leaders, an all-day
Seminar was conducted on Saturday, September 12, at a local
church.

I had the good fortune to be the keynote speaker at City Hall and at
the main seminar the next day. Mr. Michael Hale, CIO for the State
of Georgia, followed my presentation with an update on the status of
ongoing Year
2000 efforts in the state. A half-hour session followed with questions from
the
audience. Mr. Larry Burkette, a well-known Christian author and speaker
provided an
excellent speech on Y2K and Personal Finance. The afternoon program provided a
lecture on Y2K implications for small business and non-profits such as
churches and
charitable organizations. A meeting was also held to set up community Y2K

organizations throughout the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Several things stand out in my mind from this busy weekend.

First, the press was missing in action. Atlanta was the first major
metropolitan area in
the nation to conduct a large community Y2K preparedness event. This event
was the
largest such affair yet conducted anywhere in the United States. Most of
the mass
media coverage of Y2K preparedness has focused on the survivalist element
and the
press missed a great opportunity to measure what is happening in a more
mainstream
part of the Y2K scene and within a significant part of the Christian
community.

Wake up, press folk! Regardless of how you feel about the Year 2000
Problem, this is
a great story with important social and political implications. I know it's
hard, but
smell the coffee and practice some old fashioned journalism.

Second, local government missed the boat. Even though an entire evening
session was
conducted right at City Hall, there were no local political figures in
attendance. A
number of technical people employed by local government attended and I had
interesting discussions with several of them about local Y2K conditions.
Where were
the local utility regulators? Where were the local emergency preparedness
officials?
Most of all, where were the local politicians?

Wake up, pols! Regardless of how you feel about this issue, your
constituents are
immensely concerned about Y2K. These folks put you in office and they pay your
salaries. Get in touch with this issue because it could end up being a
major political
factor in the near future. Your failure to account for the political
potency of Y2K
threatens your job.

Third, the only state political representative at the event took the
greatest heat. During
the question and answer session following his presentation, Mike Hale, the
Georgia
State CIO was asked sharply,

"When are YOU going to have the video tapes of this event televised on
Georgia public
Television?"

Before Mr. Hale could answer, applause began rippling through the crowd. As
it grew
in intensity, people came to their feet. In just a moment, the entire crowd
of three
thousand was standing, clapping like crazy, raising their fists in the air
and roaring.
The display continued for many, long moments. It was easily the most intense
moment of the entire conference.

Mr. Hale graciously commented that the message was received loud and clear
and that
he would carry it to his superiors. What transpired in that brief moment was
immensely important because it so clearly made the point that those who are
concerned about Y2K are, quite frankly, thoroughly upset with their
government's
response to the issue.

These people want to be led. They want to be told the truth about Y2K.
They're tired
of being treated like children. They know something is wrong and they don't
want to
have to figure out how to deal with it on their own. They're completely
willing to hear
the truth no matter how grim it might be. They are ready to get to work and
prepare
for whatever might come. Most of all, I sense they believe government is
breaking the
fundamental social contract that binds us all together. They feel like they
are being

ignored in a time of great need.

Are you listening, Mr. Koskinen?

Fourth, this group was hungry for a moderate, non-survivalist solution set.
The
mainstream Christian community does not, in my judgment, want to head for
the hills
with a pile of dried food, a big dog and a shotgun. They want to stay put,
even in the
big cities, and, by working together, get ready for whatever Y2K brings. I
sense this
is representative of how most Y2K-concerned citizens feel. They want to grab a
hammer, or pick up a shovel and get busy.

Fifth, the Christian community is emerging as a prime mover in the Y2K
Preparedness
Movement. This particular event was produced by The Joseph Project, a new
national
organization created specifically to promote community Y2K preparedness.
For a first
effort, it was a spectacular accomplishment and they are to be
congratulated for
igniting what will be an enormous contribution to the public welfare.

My Y2K Tip for this Week is, if you want to be part of theY2K solution, get a
preparedness event going in your community. You are not alone in this effort -
contact one of the national level organizations working on this problem. My
three
favorites at this point are:

The Joseph Project, POC Kate Allen (678-445-5512) or Shaunti Feldhahn
(770-643-1982)

The Cassandra Project, POC Paloma O'Riley

www.millennia-bcs.com

Citizens for Y2K Recovery, POC John O'Mara

www.y2krecovery.com

Good Luck !

Jim Lord

Browse the Y2K Tip of the Week Archives for previous editions of this
column, and
see many more practical Y2K Tips such as these in my book, A Survival Guide
for
the Year 2000 Problem, a sample of which can be previewed at

www.SurviveY2K.com.


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BikeLeague@... wrote:

> But now our considerable energies are being directed towards such malevolent
> inventions as brand-name hybrid seeds that are resistant to brand-name
> herbicides produced by the same company, whose fertility expires after one
> year.
I believe that these seeds are produced by a process similar to cloning,
meaning that evolution is essentially halted for this product which they
wish to make us utterly dependent on--and we are after all discussing a
staple food!  Any genetic development will be under the control of, and
patented by, large Multinational Corporations. To make matters worse,
the accompanying pesticide ("Roundup") is designed to kill all living
organisms in the soil where it is applied--except the particular seeds
packaged with it.   This, a desperate extension of the already dangerous
practice of monoculture farming, is the reductio ad absurdum of a
marketing-driven economy.  Don't learn to live with the earth--it's more
convenient to kill everything in your fields, and then use our "seed
product" to grow your bread.  This can only accelerate the diminution of
genetic lineages that ordinary monoculture farming has brought about in
the last 70 years or so.
> What is perhaps most disturbing about the type of packaging that Rick is
> referring to is the fact that is not reusable, and often can't be recycled as
> well.  There's no second life for instant hot chocolate containers.
To add insult to injury, they claim on the package that it is made of
"recycled paper and foam"--however, California laws require packagers to
state the percentage of post-consumer recycled materials used in a
package, if any have been.  This package does not mention post-consumer
materials.  The law also permits packagers to refer to materials as
"recycled" if they have simply picked up and reprocessed manufacturing
waste from their own factory floor--a process tha manufacturers have
followed for decades, perhaps centuries, as an economy measure.  No
doubt as to who's behind that clause, eh?

Richard
--
Richard Risemberg
rickrise@...
Living Room: http://home.earthlink.net/~rickrise/
"There is more to life than increasing its speed."  (Gandhi)
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In a message dated 98-10-08 11:11:54 EDT, you write:

<<  When I see photos of "Third
  World" trash dumps, the discards--mostly packaging--look to have
  originated mostly in the US, Japan, or Europe.  It seems to me that the
  big food-packaging corporations are trying desperately--and
  successfully--to habituate people to expensive and inefficient (but
  profitable, if you discount externalities) dependence on these forms of
  packaged goods.  I'm sure we all remember the Nestle baby formula
  scandal.

  This seems to me a problem that is insufficiently discussed, certainly
  in the mainstream western press (though the Canadian group Adbusters
  ( http://www.adbusters.org/main.html ) covers it extensively.  What
  experiences have the international members of the list relative to this
  matter?   >>

After living for two years plus in rural Africa, one of the most disturbing
aspects of returning to the United States was the incredible waste.   To this
day, my partner (who was also there) and I cannot look at a sturdy plastic bag
without remarking on what a fine container it is.  I have a very hard time
even recycling the sturdy glass bottles that drinks are sold in.  These very
same bottles are being resold (recycled) throughout the world until completely
unusable.

What I find amazing is the arrogance of Americans in referring to our supposed
ingenuity.  The histories I read of wartime scarcity and recycling - even of
advertisements that castigated drivers of single occupancy vehicles for
"driving with Hitler" - seem to indicate that this was not always the case.
But now our considerable energies are being directed towards such malevolent
inventions as brand-name hybrid seeds that are resistant to brand-name
herbicides produced by the same company, whose fertility expires after one
year.

What is perhaps most disturbing about the type of packaging that Rick is
referring to is the fact that is not reusable, and often can't be recycled as
well.  There's no second life for instant hot chocolate containers.

Craig Tower
Washington, DC, USA
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A few days ago my mother brought over a clever gadget that she thought
would amuse my son, and which I found appalling, not as a matter of
taste but as a symbol of how our western economy works.  In brief, it is
this: an insulated package inside of which is another package, in which
is some sterilized chocolate milk. Next to the milk packet is yet
another packet containing two chemicals in their own separate packets.
When you pull a string it breaks the chemical packets, the chemicals mix
and create heat, after which you drink your half-pint of hot chocolate.
Then you throw it all away.  Needless to say, the packaging itself
weighs more than the milk.

Is it really convenience that is being sold here?  I think having a bulk
jar of chocolate powder to mix with milk and heat briefly over the gas
jet is not terribly inconvenient and doesn't load me and my world down
with garbage--and the jars and bottles for the ingredients are easily
recyclable even by primitive methods.

I think we are being sold an illusion of convenience here, which is
really a dependence on the providers of these "effortless" devices.  The
chocolate milk in this package is far more expensive than the cost of
the milk, chocolate powder, and the bit of natural gas it would take to
make your own.  Yet all over the world--perhaps even more so in
developing countries--people are being pushed to habituate themselves to
these expensive and wasteful conveniences rather than to depend on their
own simple skills in using bulk ingredients.  (And the bulk ingredients
are often bought at low prices from the same poor countries to which the
expensive finished porduct is then sold.)  When I see photos of "Third
World" trash dumps, the discards--mostly packaging--look to have
originated mostly in the US, Japan, or Europe.  It seems to me that the
big food-packaging corporations are trying desperately--and
successfully--to habituate people to expensive and inefficient (but
profitable, if you discount externalities) dependence on these forms of
packaged goods.  I'm sure we all remember the Nestle baby formula
scandal.

This seems to me a problem that is insufficiently discussed, certainly
in the mainstream western press (though the Canadian group Adbusters
( http://www.adbusters.org/main.html ) covers it extensively.  What
experiences have the international members of the list relative to this
matter?
--
Richard Risemberg
rickrise@...
Living Room: http://home.earthlink.net/~rickrise/
"There is more to life than increasing its speed."  (Gandhi)
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subscribe urban-ecology
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Date:     Wed, 07 Oct 1998 19:47:33 -0700
To:         Richard Risemberg - Urban-Ecology  discussion list
From:    Ron Kinum  / Ecology.Student
Re:        [Urban-Ecology]  Getting there

I am excited, Rick.  Imagine, Japan!  Finland!  Oceana!  Malaysia!
I really want to see some interaction by our friends around the
world.  I hope to see some conversations from our friends and to
be able to share our insights.


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Thanks to all for joining up.  Urban Ecology has been open only four
days and already has fifty-one subscribers.  At this rate we will soon
reach the critical mass required for energetic and inspiring
discussions.  I look forward to learning much from all of you and from
the struggle of passions and ideas as we try to devise a more truthful
way of living than that which has gotten the world into such a
precarious social and physical condition.

So far there are listmembers from North, Central, and South America;
Europe from Finland to Italy; Japan, Malaysia, and Oceania; and other
places.  This means that we will have the experiences of every
conceivable society as lessons, and will be able to test our proposals
against a widely divergent set of paradigms.  With a little luck and a
great deal of effort, we will be able to devise a civilization that will
deny neither our humanity nor our essential dependence on the earth.

Richard Risemberg
List Administrator
--
Richard Risemberg
rickrise@...
Living Room: http://home.earthlink.net/~rickrise/
"There is more to life than increasing its speed."  (Gandhi)
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The latest issue of Living Room is now online and available at:

	 http://home.earthlink.net/~rickrise/

New this month are:

*A photo essay, "Practical Poetry-Bicycling in Los Angeles," by Richard
Risemberg and Dana Ross, in Bike People
(http://home.earthlink.net/~rickrise/bikepeople/ )

*An excerpt form Garrison Keillor's 'Leaving Home,' under the title,
"The Anesthetized," in The Suburbia Project
(http://home.earthlink.net/~rickrise/suburbia/ )

*An article by Canadian architect Wade Eide recounting his work in
building a modern yet traditional new town for an Algonquin tribe in the
far north, titled "Learning from Kitiganik," in the Sustainability
archive ( http://home.earthlink.net/~rickrise/sustain/ )


Thank you,


--
Richard Risemberg
rickrise@...
Living Room: http://home.earthlink.net/~rickrise/
"There is more to life than increasing its speed."  (Gandhi)
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Michael R. Ayers wrote:
>
> At 12:59 PM 10/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >The other, from
> >http://www.ecouncil.ac.cr/rio/focus/report/english/subsidies/chap4.htm
> >quotes this interesting analysis of transport subsidies in the USA:
>
> mmm... This is a great link to file away for future use.
>
> Interesting that is comes from a group based in Costa Rica.
Costa Rica is in fact well known for its conservation practices.
Perhaps the only Central American country that makes the environment a
priority.

Does anyone on the list have more informatin on Costa Rica?
--
Richard Risemberg
rickrise@...
Living Room: http://home.earthlink.net/~rickrise/
"There is more to life than increasing its speed."  (Gandhi)
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At 12:59 PM 10/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>The other, from
>http://www.ecouncil.ac.cr/rio/focus/report/english/subsidies/chap4.htm
>quotes this interesting analysis of transport subsidies in the USA:


mmm... This is a great link to file away for future use.

Interesting that is comes from a group based in Costa Rica.

mra

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Michael R. Ayers wrote:
> The same friend of mine that's doing the diesel study also visited Miexico
> City last year. He mentioned that the air there seemed to be much cleaner
> that the last time he visited many years ago. The locals claimed that it
> was because diesels have been banned from in and around Mexico City.

I didn't find any confirmation of this in a cursory search, but I did
find two fascinating articles.  One is from Greenpeace Mexico, and
contains this anaylisis of transport efficiencies:

"The main source of congestion and pollution is car traffic. The
private car occupies more than 80% of the area dedicated to
transport and emits more than 50% of pollutants, although it
transports only 20% of the people (33). The public transport
system moves 80% of citizens, utilizing only 10% of space.
Transport sector shares 44.8% of the city's energy consumption."

The other, from
http://www.ecouncil.ac.cr/rio/focus/report/english/subsidies/chap4.htm
quotes this interesting analysis of transport subsidies in the USA:

"Two case studies point to huge road transport subsidies in the USA.
MacKenzie et al. (1992) of the World
      Resources Institute (WRI) have calculated that $89 billion of
annual costs were not borne by drivers in 1989,
      equal to about 1.6 per cent of the GDP. Roughly three-quarters of
this unpaid bill related to complementary
      highway services like highway patrols, traffic management,
paramedics and so on. Only 15 per cent of the costs
      were covered by user fees and taxes. For direct government expenses
such as highway construction, repair and
      maintenance only 40 per cent was covered by user fees and taxes.
Based on an average value for a parking
      space of $1000 per year, another $85 billion was added for parking
subsidies. The authors argued that parking
      should be considered part of the normal costs of operating and
owning a car and that the free supply of parking is
      effectively subsidizing the use of cars and trucks. In particular,
free parking space provided by employers should
      be regarded as a heavy subsidy, offering strong incentives to
commute by car. In sum, WRI calculates road
      transport subsidies in the USA at $174 billion in 1989 or 3 per
cent of GDP with road users covering only about
      20 per cent of public expenditures and costs."

Some countries--notably Holland, are listed as recovering all costs of
road use through user fees and taxes.

Anyone found anything about diesel in Mexico City?

Richard
--
Richard Risemberg
rickrise@...
Living Room: http://home.earthlink.net/~rickrise/
"There is more to life than increasing its speed."  (Gandhi)
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At 06:53 AM 10/6/98 -0700, you wrote:
>To make matters more complicated, the good gets mixed up with the bad.
>Here in Los Angeles, the Bus Riders Union--a good thing--has been
>pushing hard for more buses--a good thing--but has decided that the way
>to do it is to oppose the rail programs.

The same friend of mine that's doing the diesel study also visited Miexico
City last year. He mentioned that the air there seemed to be much cleaner
that the last time he visited many years ago. The locals claimed that it
was because diesels have been banned from in and around Mexico City.

Does anyone know if this is true?  It would seem to be a good case to cite
here in the US for similar restrictions.

Mike

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Date:     Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:43:20 -0700
To:         Urban-Ecology discussion list
From:    Ron Kinum / Ecology.Student@ juno.com
Re:        Michael Ayers:  [urban-ecology] Re: Smoke & Money


I just want to share something additional about the diesel exhaust
pollution
issue that I learned when I was a union member of the Brotherhood of
Locomotive Engineers during the 1980s.

The BLE found and published information concerning diesel exhaust
eating away the linings of the nasal passages, throat, and lungs.  This
is
in addition to the specifics of carbon monoxide and cancer.  Oddly, the
BLE used this information both as a warning to their members, and, as
an argument for getting the trucks off the highways and to start using
diesel-electric locomotive pulled trains.

Ron Kinum

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Michael Ayers wrote:
> I always new that diesels were bad, but this really made the point
> for me. To make it worse I saw this for the first time just after the list
> of chemicals found in diesel exhaust was made public (yuck!). There is a
> lot on this subject at: http://www.osha-slc.gov/SLTC/dieselexhaust/index.html

To make matters more complicated, the good gets mixed up with the bad.
Here in Los Angeles, the Bus Riders Union--a good thing--has been
pushing hard for more buses--a good thing--but has decided that the way
to do it is to oppose the rail programs.  Now the trains are more
efficient on busy routes than the buses both in passenger throughput
and, because they are electrics, pollution, so opposing them is not such
a good thing.  And the local transit agency, the MTA, has decided that
the only way they can accelerate bus purchases is to switch from buying
natural gas buses to cheaper and more prevalent diesel ones--a couple
thousand of them adding to the air and street congestion here.

On aonther list someone pointed out that bus and rail money both come
out of the "same small pot," and that we should sacrifice rail to
establish bus service, which can be set up more quickly.  However, I
think the way to lool at this is that bus, train, and auto services all
come out of the same transit pot, and that we should stop fully
subsidizing auto use and put that money toward trains and buses (and
have plenty left over for other social goods).  One mile of the proposed
710 freeway extension through South Pasadena costs as much as a mile of
the Red Line heavy rail subway, destroys thousands of acres of
community, and has 1/3 the peak passenger throughput of the rail system
(which would be electric).  The freeway will also increase street
congestion everywehre around it, leading to demand for yet more paving.
Buses are better than cars, in this equation--but they are still
congestion facilitators.  Not to mention polluters.
--
Richard Risemberg
rickrise@...
Living Room: http://home.earthlink.net/~rickrise/
"There is more to life than increasing its speed."  (Gandhi)
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Hello,

>This morning while I was walking my son to the school bus stop, I saw
>one of the eariler buses pulling away, leaving a huge cloud of Diesel
>smoke hanging in the air--

Since you brought this up, a friend of mine has been spending the last
several months developing a way to measure the size of carbon particulates
as they are emmited from diesel engines. He has piped the exhaust from a
small diesel generator through a clear plastic hose, and into his
instrument. It only took a couple of hours of running the apparatus before
the interior of the hose became completely coated with thick, black
residue. I always new that diesels were bad, but this really made the point
for me. To make it worse I saw this for the first time just after the list
of chemicals found in diesel exhaust was made public (yuck!). There is a
lot on this subject at: http://www.osha-slc.gov/SLTC/dieselexhaust/index.html

>Likiewise: last inght we were visiting some friends who, like most
>At one point I noticed a commercial on the
>set decrying a new tobacco initiative as a "700 million dollar tax on
>smokers," as if that were a bad thing.

It's really touching to see those kind-hearted tobacco companies
demonstrating such concern for everyday working folks! Nevermind the fact
that those same folks could save big money by *not smoking*.

The sad thing is that these type of destructive p.r. campaigns probably
work (i.e. the "Global Climate Coalition", "Harry and Louise", etc.).

Regards,
Mike


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Governor "Peter Principle" made quite a mark in San Diego, when he was
their mayor; all of the San Diego employees as a group voted for
"Governor
Peter", and then the first thing he did was to downsize San Diego!

The laid-off San Diego City workers then took jobs in the state
government,
and warned everyone about the dick, but Peter Principle was elected
anyway.
Result?  Governor Peter Principle downsized the state government, and I
am
sure many of those San Diego downsizers in State government were again
downsized.

Governor Peter Principle was the one who said that San Diego had an
obligation to build on the mesa habitats, because they had to provide the
homes for the future residents who were moving to San Diego from other
states in the next few years.  His environmental attitude was thusly
established.

Next, he gutted the State education system, which, I am sure, was to keep
upstarts and non-establishment youngsters out of the conduit to
management
positions in big business and government.  One lady, who was featured in
the Los Angeles Times, was attending CSU San Diego and had but five
classes
to get her BA degree in Child Behavioral Science, I believe it was, when
Governor
Peter Principle Wilson cut the education budgets to higher education, and
she
was left with a choice of moving to Arizona or Hawaii to finish her
degree
requirements.

He's a cold-blooded Republican cultist, as they all are.  Not that the
Democrats
have anything to brag about in their recent ineptitudes, of course, and I
am not
talking about the disasterous situations (several) in the White House
involving
each of our top-elected leaders these past four years.  The only shining
example
I see in the Democratic Party right now is Barbara Boxer.  Even Tom Haden
is
not showing a luster to his activities.  Oddly, Republican Orange County
Second
District Supervisor candidate Dave Sullivan is taking a beating, because
of his pro-environment and anti-El Toro Marine Corps Base conversion
stance, about
not transforming that installation into an auxiliary Los Angeles
International Airport.

I feel that Wilson's recent olive branches environmentaly-wise, though
not at all
significant to the extent to his overall past record, merit
consideration, but I still
don't trust him one bit.  At least former Governor Wallace of Alabama
made his
repentence with genuine commitment.  Wilson has really done nothing more
than
to bait us with hopes that are intended to garner our support for him.
If he is
really sincere, let him get out there like Barbara Boxer and show us some
real
merit.

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This morning while I was walking my son to the school bus stop, I saw
one of the eariler buses pulling away, leaving a huge cloud of Diesel
smoke hanging in the air--thick enough to obscure details for the trees
and buildings behind it.  Now, here in California particularly there's
great debate over the regulation of Diesel exhaust, which is especially
rich in "PM10," or particulate matter under 10 microns in diameter.
This matter is known to be a powerful carcinogen that lodges deep in the
lungs, and the "bureaucrats" the right so loudly rails against here
quite rightly (and in accrodance with the votes of the populace over the
years) wish to minimise its generation as much as possible.  The
trucking industry, however, supported by the right wing Republicans,
opposes that regulation on economic grounds--they won't be able to make
as much money if they have to buy cleaner trucks and cleaner-burning
fuels.  My question is, if I have to spend $250,000 fighting off lung
cancer in my later years, or, worse, if I lose ten or twenty years of my
life because of a pollution induced illness, will that trucking industry
compensate me or my heirs for it out of the extra money they made from
using dirty fuel?  Aren't they forcing me to subsidize their profits
with my own money and my very life?

Likiewise: last inght we were visiting some friends who, like most
Americans, leave a TV set running at all times, even during visits,
dinner, group singing, etc.  At one point I noticed a commercial on the
set decrying a new tobacco initiative as a "700 million dollar tax on
smokers," as if that were a bad thing.  Now, smokers constantly force me
to breathe theri leftover smoke, another substance known to be
carcinogenic; and their butts and packages litter every part of teh
streets and sidewalks of my city.  Again, why should I subsidize their
personal preference with my cash, my health, and the lost pleasure of
the days I must spend tripping over their garbage, or occasionally
cleaning it up myself?  Like the trucking and automotive industries,
THEY OWE ME!  Let them pay their damn taxes and buy their clean-air
engines.  I'll be glad, in the latter case, to pay an extra dollar a ton
for haulage if they wan to pass the costs on.  But make your money, and
take your pleasures, honestly, on your own responsibility.

I think that's the beginning of green taxes.  We must make people aware
taht what appear to be private matters--"my own business," as they
say--actually partake of great public subsidies in cash or in kind, and
that the right wing is zealously defending those subsidies of practices
that are habitual to itself, and whose benefits accrue only to a few
individuals at the expense of the many.

Richard
--
Richard Risemberg
rickrise@...
Living Room: http://home.earthlink.net/~rickrise/
"There is more to life than increasing its speed."  (Gandhi)

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My apologies to Ron Kinum for accidentally sending a private reply to
the list.  I had just a short while before changed the format so that
the reply-to was the list instead of the sender--and then forgot!
--
Richard Risemberg
rickrise@...
Living Room: http://home.earthlink.net/~rickrise/
"There is more to life than increasing its speed."  (Gandhi)

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Studies And Defends-Nature wrote:
>
> I want to offer the group something I found on the internet, and which is
> no longer available.  I edited it, but most of the writing is by the
> author.  It
Ron--

I've seen this before, and, while it's too sentimental for my taste (and
I don't like the idea of someone trying to validaate their opinions by
putting them in the mouths of animals who can have no say in the
matter), my main objection to this sort of posting is that it doesn't
specifically involve issues.  When I spoke of the poetic aspect of Urban
Ecology, I didn't mean didactic verses, I meant the passions and
sensations of community, of cooperation, of creating a group life that
is not based on exploitation of the earth or of each other.  Sentiments
similar to the wolf verses have been published by the Boy Scouts, too,
despite their conservative and fascistic nature.  It's easy to be
sentimental.  They glorified the Noble Red Man the same way...after they
were through killing him.

When you decide which e-mail address you want to use for U-E, let me
know so I can take out the other one.  It makes list management easier
and reducing duplicate use of resources.

Richard
--
Richard Risemberg
rickrise@...
Living Room: http://home.earthlink.net/~rickrise/
"There is more to life than increasing its speed."  (Gandhi)

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I want to offer the group something I found on the internet, and which is
no longer available.  I edited it, but most of the writing is by the
author.  It
was brought to my attention by an online friend, who said:

Hey you 35: Hey! You might like this site...
                                      GypsyWolf'sWolf-falls


         The Father of Wolves

A pup went to his father with
questions in his mind,
about the world around him;
about life, nature, and time.

First he asked about the world,
about how he came to be;
about how he knew right from wrong
and about the mystery of the sea.

The father smiled and answered
his son in a riddled rhyme,
"Your life will go onward from now
and you shall know in time.

"But over the course of time
remember that you have in your paw,
the power to give life by mercy
and the power to kill by the claw.

"But always know you are not king,
for nature has given this power to others,
Though they shall not harm those who live a good life,
because all of nature coexists
as your sisters and brothers."

The pup nodded to his father
then asked him some other words;
about the bountiful river in the valley
and the mighty caribou herds.

The father smiled and answered his son again,
looking into the young pups eyes,
answering with the same soft spoken words,
in the same wisened riddled rhyme.

"The water we drink and food we eat
is granted to us for life,
but each must only take as much as they need,
for that is only right.

"But each is destined to grow old,
and to soon after have all health gone,
So then they might fall prey to nature
so that others' lives may go on."

The pup again nodded once
turning to his father to ask him of his life;
How he had come to know all he did
about his pain, suffering and strife.

"My son" he whispered to the pup
still gazing in his eyes,
"I know of what I speak,
through using my own mind!

"I'll tell you of what I've seen my son
and of what the laws of nature preach,
Live your life well but harm no other,
for the purpose of life is to teach."

To this the pup just nodded,
making this knowledge his own,
he then greatfully nuzzled his father,
as the enlightenment in his eyes shown.

Then the father spoke unto his son
about the strangest of nature's clan,
Of the ones who've learned so very little,
he warned his son of human man.

"Be fearful son of a race called man
for they know not what they do,
They have been gifted abilities far beyond our own,
yet they utilize so very few.

They act not for their brothers and sisters,
but for the betterment of just one,
They've violated many of natures laws
but know not what they've done.

Man has abandoned their powerful mind
which firstallowed them to thrive,
But they will reap what they have sown
once they can no longer survive."

With that the father nuzzled his son
and bid him on his way,
knowing his son would lead a wealthy life
and pass his knowledge on one day.

written by Kayotae Blackwolf
edited by TrailFixer@...   5-28-98
(note: I do not receive e-mail on AOL, I receive e-mail at
   TrailFixer@ juno.com due to AOL's archaic e-mail system)

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Studies And Defends-Nature wrote:
>
> I see a lot in common with this in regard to the Coastal Commission, the
> Department of Agriculture, and congressional inactions and favoritism to
> developers.
>
> Any comments?
As far as California and the Coastal Commission go, it's a little worse
than that.  The problem here, with Pete Wilson in office, is systemic.
They make no bones about wanting to support development at any cost, and
brand environmental enforcers as "bureaucrats."  But the election is
coming....

Gray Davis may be a bore, but he'll do all right by the environment till
better comes along.
--
Richard Risemberg
rickrise@...
Living Room: http://home.earthlink.net/~rickrise/
"There is more to life than increasing its speed."  (Gandhi)

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I would like to make just one more observation on environmental
protections, and why they are faulty and barely working.

In the first part of the 19th Century, the State of Georgia wanted to
move all
the Cherokee native Americans from the state to Okalahoma.  As a
background to what I am about to mention, the Cherokee lived on farms
in farmhouses within their legal reservation in Georgia, had their own
newspaper and schools, and wore clothing that caucasians wore.

Lawyers and some government people took the matter to the US Supreme
Court, saying the Cherokee were an educated, civilized people protected
by
the legal treaty they had signed.  The land was theirs.  The US Supreme
Court agreed and ruled that the State of Georgia could not remove the
Cherokee from their land.

The State of Georgia went ahead with their preparations anyway, and the
defenders of the Cherokee went directly to President Andrew Jackson in
a plea to enforce the US Supreme Court Ruling.  Jackson's documented
reply was: If the Supreme Court wants to rule that Georgia cannot move
the
Cherokee, then let the Supreme Court enforce their order!  The rest is
history, with thousands of improperly clothed, underfed civilized native
Americans being forced onto the road in winter time, to march to Oklahoma
on the Trail of Tears.

I see a lot in common with this in regard to the Coastal Commission, the
Department of Agriculture, and congressional inactions and favoritism to
developers.

Any comments?

Ecology.Student

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Another Response From The Other Discussion List:

From: Blake Gumprecht <gumprecht@...>
To: LA-River-discuss@egroups.com
Subject: [LAR] Re: Richard Risemberg Reply To "Natural River"
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:21:07 -0700
References: <19981002.213118.8814.0.Ecology.Student@...>

At 04:30 PM 10/3/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>Don't forget that one of the reasons for channelizing the river was to
make
>>room for more sprawl--in other words, make it possible to buy and
resell
>>riverside land--speculation.
>

Really this is sort of the "chicken or the egg" question.

My research shows that channelization of the Los Angeles River was a
response to the effects of sprawl, not the other way around. Flood
control
in Los Angeles, for a variety of reason (financial, political, etc.), has
always been more reactive than proactive. Almost without exception,
development along the river preceded government flood control work. But,
sure, such channelization (and flood control in general) also encouraged
still more sprawl.

Blake Gumprecht
Department of Geography
University of Oklahoma
gumprecht@...


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Dave Orr:  Here is my reply to the discussion we had on LA River Discuss:

From: Ecology.Student@... (Studies And Defends-Nature)
To: LA-River-discuss@egroups.com
Subject: [LAR] Re: Riparian economics
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:20:44 -0700

<>>Capitalism means making money from money; to get the highest return,
you
<>>naturally externalize as many costs as possible.

Yes, and the only way they can do that, since as I said, capitalism has
nothing at
all to do with economics or investment, is to have power; power over
everything
they can control, which is how our government works as the corporation's
prostitute.  Capitalism circumvents the democratic system directly.  See
how long it
took black people to get their civil rights, as compared to how long it
took the
railroads from 1980 to 1990, to make the customers serve the railroads?
Their
branchlines have disappeard wholesale because the railroads have
illegally
embargoed those customers who were not large enough to fight back, even
though
it was a profitable business.  This is why there are no real labor unions
in this
country, the corporations have infiltrated them all and have placed
corporate
"sleepers" in the union officer positions.  I went through the United
Transportation
Union purges to get the real union people out of office by character
defamation!

Capitalism does the same thing with building in the Santiago Creek
watershed; in
2/3 of the Bolsa Chica between the oil wells and the Huntington Beach
Central
Library, and it seems they are succeeding in the Ballona Wetlands with
this
Nightmare Works studio.  This is why it is not a felony that requires
ecosystem
vandals to go immediately to jail without bail for bulldozing the hills
north of Lake
Elsinore and in the Santiago Creek area, as well as all over the state.
It's all power.

My only point is, let's not confuse tyrannical capitalism with
responsible, law abiding
free enterprise.  I agree with all your other points, but we have a real
enemy here,
and the enemy knows no limits so far in destroying ecosystems.  Just look
at the
Coastal Commission and the environment of their hearings.  Proponents are
actually insane by their contrary positions, they have to know they are
lying when
they make their claims about such developments as at Hellman Ranch and at
the
Bolsa Chica.  They have to!  And Nightmare Works studio proponents and
their
contractors have been blatantly lying about what they are doing.  How
stupid could
one be to think the public cannot see that what they are doing is the
scene of the
Wizard's work straight out of the book The Wizard of Oz?

There's more to this than just doing business.  Each decade is a step to
undo what
we have gained so far.  And what happens when our population reaches
300,000,000
people and they decide that the Cleveland National Forest needs to be
reduced to
accommodate more housing, or the Los Angeles River needs to become an
underground storm drain so another freeway can be built right on top of
it?  No, we
need to address this power.  We need to address why the Republican Cult
is
getting away with making a religion out of democracy-bashing, and is
gaining in
luring more converts away from the field of reason.

I don't like radicalism, but the opponents are more than merely
formidable, they really
do control the world we know.  It must be evident to someone else beside
me that
there is nothing "conservative" about the radical republicans in our
government's
majority and about the corporate communists who are running our
businesses today.
They spit on justice and liberty every day, why should they care if they
ruin the world's
ecosystem and all of our natural resources?  The lumber people saying we
need to
care about providing more jobs and not worry about cutting down the last
tree, the
oil exploiters who don't care that 85% of the world's nitrogen produced
fertilizer
comes from petroleum catylists because they want to open the automobile
market
up in China to sell more fuel, in a world where we only have 65 years of
automobile
fuel left, all this put the whole philosophy right on the table about
what we are up
against!

Is it any wonder we have a hard time getting more Barbara Boxers and
others to be
elected?  This is a very serious chess game, and the stakes are as fatal
as the
soldier on a battlefield faces.  Somehow, we have to stave off this wild,
irresponsible
economic attack on natural life.  But how?  With world population
increasing as much
as it has just the past 98 years, we had better find those answers fast!
Those North
American flyways are already poised to collapse right before our eyes due
to their
loss of habitat, just as the hawks from North America almost went extinct
after their
migrations to South America.  Thanks to US scientists and the Argentinian
government, that tragedy caused by US capitalism was averted in the nick
of time.
What will save the mountain lions of Orange County, and the bears of Los
Angeles
County?  We have a mightier force against us with regard to development
of homes
and businesses on natural habitats and ecosystems right here at home.  So
let's
don't be naive; like the British who still today believe that Elizabeth
Windsor is a
queen, when there hasn't been a British monarch in 180 years, capitalism
is pure
power that has nothing to do with economics or investment, and it doesn't
ever like
to lose.  Even when it's deadly wrong.

Ron Kinum
Ecology.Student
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I was referred to this page as a means of discussing the benefits and the
problems of living in an urban jungle as well as the destructive power urban
society has over nature both at home and far away.

I hope there is some debate.

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Hello Rick and Ron:

This is Ecology.Student under my AOL name.  My other ecology chat has
been taking place on Homebeach@... which is my International
screen names.  (I now have 16 AOL screen names).  The only e-mail I
will allow to come to this address will be through the Urban Ecology
forum, all other e-mail will be blocked except from certain of my 29 Juno
e-mail addresses.

So, greetings to all, and don't be surprised if I contribute things I find
online
from this e-mail address.

Ron Kinum
Ecology.Student

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From: David Orr <DavidOrr@...>
To: ANGELES-CONSERVATION@...
Subject: More violence in the woods...
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:55:11 EDT
Message-ID: <db2667cd.36179a5f@...>

This time in Idaho, from the folks defending the Cove-Mallard Roadless
Area
(Nez Perce National Forest) from the timber industry...

TO:  Friends of Cove/Mallard and Otter-Wing
RE: Forest Service and Idaho County Atrocities

Recent actions by the Forest Service, Forest Service law enforcement, and
Idaho County law enforcement prove that the law only applies to some.  As
you
may know, the agency starting building a road long before it got the
proper
approval from the US Fish and Wildlife Service or the National Marine
Fisheries Service.

A couple of recent events highlight the problem:

1- The citizen camp near FS road #9463 in the Otter-Wing timber sale area
was
raided on the night of Friday August 21, 1998, by a group of at least 5
men and 2
women, which included members of the Highland Enterprise road crew.
Since
the Otter-Wing timber sale area is about 15 miles back on Forestry
Service road
Nr. 1875, from a locked gate, only those with keys can drive to the sale.

Names of road crew members were heard by activists.  These attackers
committed arson by burning activists' backpacks, clothes, and tarps;
theft by
stealing backpacks, radios, and other personal gear; destruction of
private
property by slashing a sleeping bag and sleeping pad, a jacket and
rainjacket;
and assault by threatening the activists' lives with shotguns and rape.
Activists
were verbally threatened and pursued out of the camp.  One individual's
assailants found her with their flashlight, and she heard one tell the
other to put
the shotgun down and let her run away.

Nez Perce National Forest (NPNF) law enforcement (LE) had been arriving
early
in the mornings of that week to enforce the closure on road #9463.  But
they did
not arrive the next day on Saturday August 22.  An individual hiked to
Sourdough
peak where a Forestry Service crew that was working on the lookout tower
called
in to report the incident.  Both NPNF and Idaho County law enforcement
(IC LE)
arrived late at the crime scene, at about 1 P.M that next day.

Upon arrival, the LE tried to convince the activists to leave for their
own safety.
J.D. Doyle of IC LE said, "There is nothing we as law enforcement can do
to
ensure your well being."  It is our understanding that the NPNF LE echoed
this
sentiment by stating that it was not their jurisdiction to handle this
case.  They
claimed that private property theft and destruction should be handled by
IC LE.
Investigating arson is certainly under the NPNF LE jurisdiction, yet they
ignored
their mandate and duty.

Whether premeditated or not, the NPNF LE's failure to enforce the law
works
hand in hand with those who committed the arson, theft, destruction of
property,
and assaults to terrorize activists.  On Saturday afternoon, the LE told
the activists
that they could not ensure the well being of the activists.  Yet, on
Saturday night,
the NPNF LE brought in smoke jumpers and began 24-hour security at the
base
of the tree sits with canine units.  Clearly, the NPNF LE had the
resources to do a
timely investigation of arson, theft, destruction of property, and
assault.

Arson is in the NPNF LE's jurisdiction.  The NPNF LE is adamant about
investigating arson of other types in the National Forest, so why not
arson that is
committed against activists?  The attackers put a backpack in a
smoldering fire
and threw fuel on the fire, creating a conflagration to which they added
the tarp
and clothing of the victims, and then ran away from the scene.  Activists
had to
come back when it was safe to put the fire out.  It is the NPNF LE's job
to
investigate an arson of this nature.

2- Two citizens were recently arrested who were simply filming the
destruction
outside of the closure.  Mike Bowersox and Sean Gale were arrested
because
they were perceived to be leaders.

WHAT YOU COULD DO

1- Call the acting  Nez Perce Forest Supervisor (Charles Wildes) and
demand
that he order his law enforcement officers to act ethically and legally,
as well
as to obey their law enforcement mandate to enforce the laws. His
telephone
number is  (208) 983-1950

2- Call the Regional Forester (Dale Bosworth) and tell him to conduct a
thorough
investigation into the Nez Perce National Forest and this issue.  His
number is
(406) 329-3511.

FOR MORE INFORMATION
Cove/Mallard Coalition
(208) 882-9755
e-mail to:  cove@...

Northern Rockies Preservation Project
(208) 345-8077
e-mail to:  nrpp@...

Native Forest Network
(406) 542-7343
e-mail to:  nfn@...

Billy Stern
PO Box 8251
Native Forest Network
Missoula, MT 59807
PH  (406) 542-7343
FX   (406) 542-7347
e-mail to:  Billysun@...

List-Subscribe: <mailto:Wild-Rockies-Alerts-on@...>

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<<>Thanks for the excellent extra announcement on the river list!  It'll
<<>definitely help.  I've sent out announcemnts to my ezine's list, which
<<>is about 80 names so far, so I'm hoping to get some responses from
<<>that.  And I have a couple of friends who will likely publicize Urban
<<>Ecology on their much bigger 'zines.
<<>
<<>Thanks again,
<<>
<<>Rick

Glad to help, Rick.

I cannot access your website, this Windows 95 486 that I got specifically
for AOL
cannot handle the web with three servers, the basic programs and AOL
combined.
Soon as AOL upgraded they made my 486 be like a 286.

Ahhh well.  :>)

Gee, I just realized it.  Our discussion on First World and Third World
was our
first official discussion on this new forum.  Wow.  IamGoshed. <---one of
my
fourteen AOL screen names.

Ron Kinum
Ecology.Student

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Just a greeting on this new list-serve, and asking who has so far
subscribed to this overall ecological discussion group?  Are we
ready to discuss these issues?

I will have a discussion to add when we get some responses that
we have some members aboard.

Ron Kinum
Ecology.Student

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Just want to see whether the message comes through.

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