LoRee,
   It will be interesting to see how your Tyvek tent works out.
   I should mention two things, okay?
   First of all, I have had a Tyvek Winbreaker for a very  long time.
I bought it at an L & L  Bean factory  outlet. It is the most
interesting shade of  blue....
   To  be  honest that is more often why I wear it! I like the  dab
of  blue peeking thru my layers when I  go cross country  skiing;
and, it seems to  work as well as any  of my other  light weight
windbreakers. So, apparently there is a cothing grade  tyvek out
there.
   It is not at all like the builder's grade Tyvec. It is so light it
almost  floats in air. I am  looking at it  now....It was actually
made by L & L  Bean. I am not possitive, but I don't think it has any
water resistence at all.
   Like i said, I  bought  it  for the color...(and the weight). I
remember chuckling when i saw the *Tyvek* logo on it. ok? It was a
cheap  clearance item....perhaps a prototype(?)

   The second bit of information: I  built my  own house. As many
builders do, I  used Tyvek to wrap  my house. It was a first
generation  product. I was told then, that it is not all that it is
cracked up to be. I was told that its beneficial properties  will
degrade if it  not covered very quickly. Sun exposure appears to
take  quite a toll on it.....In fact, they told me to switch to
*Typar* whach was an alternative at the time. Since then< i think  a
better grade of  *tyvek* has come out.
    You might want talk to  the manufacturer (Dupont (?)) about its
chaaracteristics. Don't mention making the  tent ....cuz  Dupont is
notorious for  stealing  ideas! lol
a la  microsoft!

   It  should be an interesting experiment...but  dont  get your hopes
up too much. You know what I think? I think the  cost of tents is
tied to the cost of  developement , liability and labor (i.e. paying
stitchers) distribution, etc. I doubt the materials used in tents is
even  a tiny  fraction of the  cost of a tent. Given that....I think
you should  just try out the tyvek as a  tarp tent  first....just my
opinion.....If that works in your back yard   keeping  something dry
for a couple of summers....then ur good to  go,  right?
   I bet in the final analysis you can find a far superior material
from which to  make a  tent at your local outfitter (a place that
sells   outdoor yard goods all the  gromets , fittings etc..... like
Ragged Mountain Equipment here in New Hampshire)

   Oh YES:
   One thing a lot of  people are (possibly) forgetting: Rain fly's  ,
used alone....are great. Tents used without fly's  are also  great.
They  just fill different  niches. Both, alone,  are extremely light
weight.
I am positive you  can find ultralight tents *new* for $100 US or
less. I can provide examples. These tents  , though not free standing
are really two  tents in one....(i.e. weatherproof tarp tent [the
fly] and the stargazing  fair weather tent [the tent  body])...at a
cost of $50 or less @. That is  two  hours pay @! Why  bother sewing
your own? lol

   I am sure you guys have been over and over this stuff by  now...but
at the risk of redundancy  I will  still  make this post....

mick(nolyec2003)


--- In ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com, LoRee S
<sshyone4u@y...> wrote:
> Hello,
> I am planning to use Tyvec (not the generic) for a
> tent. The way I see it is if you use a seam sealer on
> all your stitches you shouldn't have any problem with
> leaks. Tyvec is expensive although,I plan on checking
> out a roll of it at home Depot ($55 a huge roll) to
> see how manageable it is and if I will be able to sew
> anything on it. I have heard and read of others using
> Tyvec for the bottom of the tent or a ground cloth.
> Good Luck.
>
>
> --- "netty1@j..." <Netty1@j...> wrote:
>
> >
> > hello everyone,
> > I have a question, Is there much differnce between
> > Tyvec and the generic stuff for the purpose of
> > making a tarp? The price difference is about $20.
> >  Also in making a tarp can you sew things onto it or
> > does it leak then?
> > I also got Ray Jardine's Tarp book.  It looks like
> > he used other material for his tarps. Does anyone
> > have tarp plans for tyvec they could share with me
> > or any helpful hints so I don't make the same
> > mistakes?
> > Thanks
> > Annette Nelson
> > Correction does much encouragement does more.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail

Hi,
   I lived in Nepal for two  years. I did an awful  lot of treking there
with  just  good sneakers and  flip  flops. There are so many river
crossings....u need  some  kind of  barefoot  system ....easy on /easy
off...The difference in Nepal is that you can resupply with rice and
lentils once a week...almost always...and unless you are going over 20K
feet...
   I always bring sandals now (years later) when i go  back  packing.
But I  am very  paticular about the  outsoles. I  buy sandals with 5/10
aquastealth outsoles....which  will not be slippery on algae  covered
rocks  encountered in river crossing.
   I get off the beaten path, more often than not , though (i.e. not
really a trail  hiker).
   If ur not concerned about river crossings...and your  pack is light
enough....you   can wear  basically anything on your feet. Some
sandals and the  new hybrid hiker/runner/sandal type shoes should be
fine....imho.
   Personally, I think  in terms of reasonableness  in torsion in my foot
wear. I need  perchase on  rocks and the ability to dig my  toe in to
lift and  lunge.
   It is interesting to me that hunting type  boots(made by Browning,
Danner etc)...with high ankles give no more ankle  protection than the
mid backpackers most of us  buy. All hte height  does is  protect the
ankle from brush etc...and  perhaps is a bit dryer in water.
   I have to admit....I would feel  vulnerable in sandals on anything
but an overnight. I have  twisted my ankle one time too many. The times
i  have twisted an ankle with a good  boot on...I can actually  keep
walking until i get where i  need to go (the ER?lol...)With  sandals
i'd be a  cooked  goose...
   But, i am  older than  you.
   On the other hand  I live on a river and in the  summer i wear
sandals  more than  boots and i am always tromping thru the woods
carrying stuff...SO? To each his  own...
Just thinking outloud,
  Mick(nolyec2003)


--- In ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com, "P. clan_randal"
<cailjeyc@y...> wrote:
> Has anyone had experience wearing sandals on backpacking trips in
place
> of regular footwear?

Chaco is what i  use ,  also...
I dont wear them so  much  for hiking....but for  around camp and
river  crossings.
Mine have the 5-1 aqua stealth  soles ....and, beleive it or
not...they are resoleable (for about 25 bucks.).
The origianl Teva type  sandals were made for white water
rafting....now it is almost impossible to  find  soles that dont
slip all over the  place on river  crossings. My, how things change!

Over all...in sandals i like what i see with Chaco and  Keen....they
seem to have the best  Engineers....
Are we  building a  consensus here? It seems so....
On e thing tho...which you mentioned...and is  of  concern to
everybody here.....weight vs  funtion....
not sure if there is  a better light weight sandal for  (a) trail
walking (b) river  crossing/ camp shoe.
I am an advocate of camp shoes even if they are  just  flip  flops..
How about others? Waste of weight?
mick(nolyec2003)
--- In ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <naphas@s...>
wrote:
> --- In ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com, "P. clan_randal"
> <cailjeyc@y...> wrote:
> > Has anyone had experience wearing sandals on backpacking trips in
> place
> > of regular footwear?
>
> I wear chaco z2 terrano sandals for many of my trips.  I find them
> to offer nearly the same amount of ankle support as most light
> hiking boots, due to their excellent footbed, and the best overall
> traction of any of my outdoor shoes.  I really prefer them to other
> types of footwear in most conditions, as I have very difficult to
> fit feet, and blister easily in almost anything else.  I sometimes
> go for the total trail geek look and wear liner socks with them if
I
> start to get a hotspot.  I haven't tromped through snow in them,
but
> I do know some folks who do, wearing rocky or sealskinz goretex
> socks under another layer or two of warm socks.  Only real drawback
> I've encountered with the chacos beyond the occasional pebble under
> the foot is that they are actually pretty heavy: my size 10.5 weigh
> in at something like 512 grams, which is heavier than my NB
806/807,
> much heavier than my salomon xa comps, and close to the weight of
my
> midheight danner radical 45 boots.  I wouldn't want to carry much
> more than 30 pounds wearing them, but then again, I try to avoid
> carrying more than 35 pounds in any case.

Netty,
   I am curious: What are you  gonna sew on your tarp? I can  see it
all  now!!!! Harley tarps....

   anyway....i bet you could  find out which materials are used for
*footprints* made for various manufacturers' high end  solo tents.
Then i would try to find some of those materials by the tard. I am
sure seam sealers work very well with almost any well sewn
seam...doncha think!

These  guys will  know: Ragged Mountain Equipment, North Conway, NH
They sell raw materials of all  kinds in theoir basement section
(outdoor materials of all  kinds and all the findings and fixtures
and  gadgets....give em a call....(you can use  directory assistence,
right? or google? )

   If I am out and about and i see a fancy tarp....I'll  know its  my
friend netty! heheh

mick(nolyec2003)
--- In ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com, "netty1@j..."
<Netty1@j...> wrote:
>
> hello everyone,
> I have a question, Is there much differnce between Tyvec and the
generic stuff for the purpose of making a tarp? The price difference
is about $20.
>  Also in making a tarp can you sew things onto it or does it leak
then?
> I also got Ray Jardine's Tarp book.  It looks like he used other
material for his tarps. Does anyone have tarp plans for tyvec they
could share with me or any helpful hints so I don't make the same
mistakes?
> Thanks
> Annette Nelson
> Correction does much encouragement does more.

I have a foot condition (Morton's Neuroma, linked with a hammertoe) that
tends to flare up every spring. It seems that snowshoeing and x-c skiing
contribute to it. I find that I need to wear sandals a lot in spring in
order to recover. Until recently, I hadn't hiked in sandals to any great
extent, in part because the areas I prefer (Catskill, Adirondacks, Gunks,
occasionally the Whites) are pretty rugged.

However, I've recently been testing a pair of Chaco Z/2 sandals with
Backpackgeartest. These have a Vibram sole (Terrano). I'd not consider them
for our sometimes very difficult off-trail conditions. but I have worn them
on trail hikes. I've not been bothered overmuch by grit, and have found
that the toe-loop controls torsion quite well on anything but protracted
sidehills, but the same toe-loop can be a bit uncomfortable on long, hard
descents (no switchbacks here)! The toe tends to slide hard into the loop,
no matter how the straps are adjusted, but this is mildly uncomfortable,
not excruciating, and happens on extremely steep sections mostly.

Other than that, I've been pleased with the grip of the soles on rock wet
and dry, and I've not bumped my toes (though I am wearing a size that gives
me significant toe room, perhaps a half-size, in front. This acts as a
buffer. The worst injuries I've experienced so far have come from
carelessly jabbing my feet with my trekking poles a couple of times. Very
ouch. Twigs, rock, grit etc. seem not to be a great issue, but I'll see how
that goes as the summer progresses. I'm also occasionally wearing a pair of
toe-socks designed for split-toe sandals, but I can't say that they are an
essential, just an added comfort.


At 09:25 AM 5/30/05, you wrote:
>I wore some for day hikes for a week after Glacier
>National Park took some toenails.  I did wear socks- I
>just couldn't wear any closed-toe shoes.  I wore
>Teva's, but wouldn't recommend it for normal hiking
>purposes.
>--- "McKellar, Peter" <peter.mckellar@...>
>wrote:
>
> > I have a pair of Adidas Banshees  that I have worn
> > hiking. They give a
> > bit more toe protection than open sandals.
> >
> > I find them OK for day trips, the main disadvantage
> > is that grit and
> > sand always seems to get between my foot and the
> > sandal and I have to
> > clean them out often.
> >
> > I wore them on snow once, needless to say that was
> > not successful. I
> > found myself stopping every hundred metres or so,
> > perching myself on a
> > rock with sandals off trying to thaw out feet in the
> > sun.
> >
> > I recently sprained my ankle and I would now feel
> > obliged to express
> > concern at lack of ankle support in any sandals or
> > low ankled footware.
> > But if you are travelling ultralight then that may
> > be less of a worry.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com] On
> > Behalf Of
> > > P. clan_randal
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2005 14:10
> > > To: ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Ultralight Backpacking] Question:
> > Sandals
> > >
> > > Has anyone had experience wearing sandals on
> > backpacking
> > > trips in place of regular footwear?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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                            Reply to: erd@...
                         WILSEY RARE BOOKS, MEMBER ABAA
                              http://www.wilsey.net
                   Phone: (845) 657-7057      Fax: (845) 657-2366

Since I've been asked the question a couple of times of what I plan to sew onto
the tarp I will reply.  I was just thinking of tie out loops and other things
like that, I really wasn't thinking very fancy.

For the time being I am going to just have to stick with my tube tent and neat
sheet because I can't afford anything else.  But it sure is fun to think, plan
and dream about stuff to make the load lighter and things that might make the
trip more fun.  :-)

I sure enjoy all the insight and experiences of others.

Annette Nelson
Correction does much encouragement does more.

Netty,

There are several types of Tyvek: 10 (hard structurer -
onstruction), 14 (soft structure), and 16 (soft structure with
perforations).  See:

     http://www.tyvek.com/pdf/prod_techman.pdf

I'm using Type 14 for a ground sheet.  Very light, flexible, and
quieter thatn Type 10 but the point-bonding results in strands
catching small debris - a minor nuisance at most.

It seems like the idea of making a tent or at least a tarp out of
Tyvek comes up from time to time.  The frequent issue is noise, from
flapping in the wind or rain.  Usually a drum metaphore is used to
describe the experience:  "Like living in a snare drum" is the one I
remember.  I suspect that most people have been trying to use Type
10 because of availability and cost (free if you can beg some from a
construction site).  As stiff as Type 10 is, I believe the reports
that it's noisy to live under.

Not sure if I'd want to use the Type 14 for more than a ground
sheet.  Collecting bits of leaves and twigs on the bottom of a
ground sheet is one thing but it may be a real drawback on a tent.
(Then again, it would eventually break up that white expanse.  lol)
But it would be a lot easier to sew than Type 10 since it was
designed to be a fabric replacement (it's used for cleanroom and
hazmat garments).

Type 16 would likely be too permeable and not durable enough for
tents, tarps, and ground cloths, etc.

I forget where we ordered the Type 14 from - my backpacking partner
found a site that offered it at a great price.  (Brian, do you still
have the URL?)  You can get it from Hang 'em High:

     http://ecom.citystar.com/hang-em-high/

But I recall them being nearly twice the cost.  (Maybe not an issue
if you only need a small amount or are ordering other things from
them.)

If you make the tent, let us know how it turns out.

Steve


--- In ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com, "nolyec2003"
<nolyec2003@y...> wrote:
> Netty,
>   I am curious: What are you  gonna sew on your tarp? I can  see
it
> all  now!!!! Harley tarps....
>
>   anyway....i bet you could  find out which materials are used
for
> *footprints* made for various manufacturers' high end  solo
tents.
> Then i would try to find some of those materials by the tard. I am
> sure seam sealers work very well with almost any well sewn
> seam...doncha think!
>
> These  guys will  know: Ragged Mountain Equipment, North Conway, NH
> They sell raw materials of all  kinds in theoir basement section
> (outdoor materials of all  kinds and all the findings and fixtures
> and  gadgets....give em a call....(you can use  directory
assistence,
> right? or google? )
>
>   If I am out and about and i see a fancy tarp....I'll  know its
my
> friend netty! heheh
>
> mick(nolyec2003)
> --- In ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com, "netty1@j..."
> <Netty1@j...> wrote:
> >
> > hello everyone,
> > I have a question, Is there much differnce between Tyvec and the
> generic stuff for the purpose of making a tarp? The price
difference
> is about $20.
> >  Also in making a tarp can you sew things onto it or does it
leak
> then?
> > I also got Ray Jardine's Tarp book.  It looks like he used other
> material for his tarps. Does anyone have tarp plans for tyvec they
> could share with me or any helpful hints so I don't make the same
> mistakes?
> > Thanks
> > Annette Nelson
> > Correction does much encouragement does more.

>  Oh YES:
>  One thing a lot of  people are (possibly) forgetting: Rain fly's  ,
>used alone....are great. Tents used without fly's  are also  great.
>They  just fill different  niches. Both, alone,  are extremely light
>weight.
>
>
###
Full disclosure - A rain fly will work almost as well as a full tent in
keeping you dry but a tent always does a much better job than a fly
alone at keeping insects, mice and other terrestrial critters from
crawling over your hands and face in the middle of the night! As Mick
suggests, buying a cheap lightweight commercial tent is probably a
better use of your time and money but if you decide to go the tarp
route, be prepared for some nocturnal visitors on a regular basis. If
that seems like a turnoff, then consider adding a tyvek ground sheet
attached to the tarp all around with no-see-um netting. Campmor sells
it. The additional weight is negligible since you will probably carry a
ground sheet anyway.

Bigfoot

>
>

Here's where tents and tarps converge.

If you use a tent fly and a ground cloth or footprint, you essentially
have a tarp and groundcloth. The tarp is more versatile in its pitch
options and usually has more room and is usually lighter, while the
tent fly option is sometimes freestanding.

If you add a net tent to a tarp (such as the NEST to the GoLite CAVE
tarp), you're doing essentially the same thing as putting up the inner
tent under the fly. You'll have more breezes under the tarp (even if
it's pouring rain), but about the same level of bug protection. You'll
have the same bathtub floor (with the NEST, anyway).

david


--- In ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com, Rich Ehli
<richehli@o...> wrote:
>
> >  Oh YES:
> >  One thing a lot of  people are (possibly) forgetting: Rain fly's  ,
> >used alone....are great. Tents used without fly's  are also  great.
> >They  just fill different  niches. Both, alone,  are extremely light
> >weight.
> >
> >
> ###
> Full disclosure - A rain fly will work almost as well as a full tent in
> keeping you dry but a tent always does a much better job than a fly
> alone at keeping insects, mice and other terrestrial critters from
> crawling over your hands and face in the middle of the night! As Mick
> suggests, buying a cheap lightweight commercial tent is probably a
> better use of your time and money but if you decide to go the tarp
> route, be prepared for some nocturnal visitors on a regular basis. If
> that seems like a turnoff, then consider adding a tyvek ground sheet
> attached to the tarp all around with no-see-um netting. Campmor sells
> it. The additional weight is negligible since you will probably carry a
> ground sheet anyway.
>
> Bigfoot
>
> >
> >

Steve & I got our Tyvek from The Kite Studio (www.kitebuilder.com)
They sell Tyvek Type 1443 (which must be some subvariety of type 14)
for $3.50 (US) per yard, in a 60 inch width.  We bought ours back in
January of this year, and at the time I believe it was the best price
we'd found online.  Your mileage may vary, etc.

To be honest, I haven't done anything with my Tyvek since I bought it
but take it hiking with me.  I keep meaning to trim it to size, etc.
but just haven't yet.  It does pack down nice and small, though, and I
haven't had any soak-through problems yet.

Brian

Hi travellers!

My name is Garth Lean and I am currently completing research with the
University of Western Sydney in Australia. My study is looking at the
impact of travel upon the traveller when they return home, and I need
the help of active travellers like yourself. I have just finished
developing a website www.transformativetravel.com which allows
travellers who feel they have been changed by travel to participate in
a brief 5 minute online survey. My aim is to find whether there are
particular elements within a travel experience that help to inspire
changes/transformations.

Any help you can give in sharing your experiences would be greatly
appreciated. The site also has a mailing list which you can join and
receive notification when the results are available. Hopefully there
will be some good tips for creating a transformative travel experience
when I have finished.

If you would like to find out more about the study, please visit
www.transformativetravel.com. I have also attached my one-page
information sheet below. If you know of other travellers who have been
changed by travel, please feel free to distribute this invitation as
widely as you like.

Thanks for your help. It is greatly appreciated.

Happy travelling!

Garth.

P.S. For an easier to read/printable/emailable version of the
invitation please visit http://www.pnc.com.au/~lean/ttweb1/Invitation.htm


AN OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN GROUND-BREAKING TOURISM RESEARCH

What happens to a traveller when they travel?
Do they change as a result of their experiences?
Can tourism be used as a tool for solving environmental & social issues?

This is an invitation to participate in innovative research being
conducted by a student at the University of Western Sydney that seeks
to answer these questions

STAGE 1
The study needs to identify individuals who have changed as a result
of travel. Two types of post-travel change/transformation will be
looked at:

1. The research is focusing on travellers who have been influenced by
a travel experience (i.e. what they saw, what they did, the
interactions they had, the actions they witnessed, the environments
they lived within) to such an extent that they were inspired to change
their values, attitudes and/or behaviours toward our natural and
social environments. This also includes individuals who already held
strong views on these issues, but were motivated by the travel
experience to become more involved in addressing them, and/or the
education and encouragement of others to become involved.

2. As a traveller's life can be impacted in many other ways by their
travel experience, the study is also attempting to identify the
diversity of changes that can occur through travel.

HOW CAN YOU HELP?

1.If you have had your environmental and/or social views altered or
strengthened by a travel experience, or feel that you have been
changed in other ways by travel you can participate in a brief 5
minute online survey at www.transfomativetravel.com.

2. If you have not had a transformative travel experience but know of
a book or other source (e.g. article, movie, website) depicting an
account of somebody who has, or have just heard about somebody who
has, you can suggest them at www.transfomativetravel.com.

3. If you have family, friends, colleagues, databases or mailing lists
of individuals who may have undergone such changes, please feel free
to distribute this invitation as widely as you like. Information
provided within the surveys is strictly confidential.

To find out more about this important research please visit
www.transformativetravel.com

Hi

For those interested, BackpackGearTest.org has completed the following
product tests during May, 2005. These tests are undertaken for no monetary
gain by BackpackGearTest.org and are undertaken in the field by backpackers
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tester, upon completing the reporting requirements gets to keep the gear at
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Just click on the link to be taken to the test reports.

Delorme Topo USA
	 http://www.backpackgeartest.org/delorme/

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IBEX Outdoor Clothing Guide Lite Pant
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Tarptent by Henry Shires Cloudburst
	 http://www.backpackgeartest.org/tarptent

Thorlo - Thorlo Socks
	 http://www.backpackgeartest.org/thorlos/

Slumberjack Ultimate
	 http://www.backpackgeartest.org/slumberjack/

Regards
Andrew Priest
List Moderator
http://BackpackGearTest.org

I would like people's opinions on good trail shoes for some fast
packing trips. The trips would be 3 season ( no winter) average to
long miles, light pack 10-15 pound range and over some rocky terrain. I
currently have a pair of New Balance running shoes that I train for
miles on the road with. They seem to fit my foot better than most
shoes. I am sure I need a slightly more agressive shoe....do you know
of any trail running shoes that would be appropriate? Thanks!

I would like some advise on some light fast high energy food to carry
on some 2-3 day fast pack trips....hopefully good tasting too! I
intend to carry a alcohol burning soda can stove for evening
meals....lunch will be on the go and breakfast a quick meal
also....any
ideas?

how long trips?

new balance adventure has more agressive tread thean running but may or may not
be comfortable for you since it has a different last than the running shoes

For really light shoes-- I mean really light I like the walmart aqua shoes
--which I actually use -- but they may not have a good enough tread for you
--they work pretty well on rocks because they contour to the rocks, but less
well on the ball bearing type slopes with tiny pebbles because they lack tread
trekking poles definately help in that situation--

5-10 makes some very lightweight river shoes that are interesting and have
sticky rubber bottoms but you'd have a hard time finding them and and they won't
be long lasting on the trail
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: oldthymeseeds
   To: ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:34 AM
   Subject: [Ultralight Backpacking] Trail Shoes


   I would like people's opinions on good trail shoes for some fast
   packing trips. The trips would be 3 season ( no winter) average to
   long miles, light pack 10-15 pound range and over some rocky terrain. I
   currently have a pair of New Balance running shoes that I train for
   miles on the road with. They seem to fit my foot better than most
   shoes. I am sure I need a slightly more agressive shoe....do you know
   of any trail running shoes that would be appropriate? Thanks!






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think these guys carry some great stuff.

http://www.trailfoods.com/

I tend to take a lot of dehydrated foods, made from fresh
ingredients. I either make them myself or I get them from this
place. I then include a mutivitamin supplement because these foods
are good in calories but tend to be nutrient depleted from the heat
and Oxygen oxposure during processes.

-Dave

--- In ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com, oldthymeseeds
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> I would like some advise on some light fast high energy food to
carry
> on some 2-3 day fast pack trips....hopefully good tasting too! I
> intend to carry a alcohol burning soda can stove for evening
> meals....lunch will be on the go and breakfast a quick meal
> also....any
> ideas?

If you like NB try www.nbwebexpress.com I think. I just ordered some
Dunham (NB's heavier duty hiking and work shoes) 905's. Same fit as NB
but a bit more aggressive approach type shoe. These are not big heavy
hikers but more like trail runners.

Geoff


On Tuesday, June 7, 2005, at 11:18  AM,
ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Message: 1
>    Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 15:34:18 -0000
>    From: oldthymeseeds
> Subject: Trail Shoes
>
> I would like people's opinions on good trail shoes for some fast
> packing trips. The trips would be 3 season ( no winter) average to
> long miles, light pack 10-15 pound range and over some rocky terrain. I
> currently have a pair of New Balance running shoes that I train for
> miles on the road with. They seem to fit my foot better than most
> shoes. I am sure I need a slightly more agressive shoe....do you know
> of any trail running shoes that would be appropriate? Thanks!

--- In ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com, oldthymeseeds
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> I would like people's opinions on good trail shoes for some fast
> packing trips. The trips would be 3 season ( no winter) average to
> long miles, light pack 10-15 pound range and over some rocky
terrain. I
> currently have a pair of New Balance running shoes that I train
for
> miles on the road with. They seem to fit my foot better than most
> shoes. I am sure I need a slightly more agressive shoe....do you
know
>
  of any trail running shoes that would be appropriate? Thanks!

I've been a New Balance user for a few years but have been using
Montrail Hardrocks for a couple months. Decent shoe.
I've switched to the Montrail Masai. They are a couple ounces
lighter than the Hardrocks, according to Montrails scale, and the
forefoot has more flex so its not fighting your own highly flexable
forefoot.
Very breathable too.
They don't have as much support as the Hardrock, but then you
probably won't be running in them with 3 or 4 times your body weight
crushing the shoe.
Walking with a 10-15 lb. pack is not nearly so stressful. My 225lbs
before packweight doesn't seem to make the Masai fret.
I'm really into being as efficient as possible and a stiff forefoot
in a shoe is something that fights you every step of the way.
GND

Hello LoRee here,
  I just googled 5.10 shoes and walla!! on the net.
5.10 shoes www.wwc.co.uk

--- Paul Sailer <paulsailer@...> wrote:

> how long trips?
>
> new balance adventure has more agressive tread thean
> running but may or may not be comfortable for you
> since it has a different last than the running shoes
>
> For really light shoes-- I mean really light I like
> the walmart aqua shoes --which I actually use -- but
> they may not have a good enough tread for you --they
> work pretty well on rocks because they contour to
> the rocks, but less well on the ball bearing type
> slopes with tiny pebbles because they lack tread
> trekking poles definately help in that situation--
>
> 5-10 makes some very lightweight river shoes that
> are interesting and have sticky rubber bottoms but
> you'd have a hard time finding them and and they
> won't be long lasting on the trail
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: oldthymeseeds
>   To: ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:34 AM
>   Subject: [Ultralight Backpacking] Trail Shoes
>
>
>   I would like people's opinions on good trail shoes
> for some fast
>   packing trips. The trips would be 3 season ( no
> winter) average to
>   long miles, light pack 10-15 pound range and over
> some rocky terrain. I
>   currently have a pair of New Balance running shoes
> that I train for
>   miles on the road with. They seem to fit my foot
> better than most
>   shoes. I am sure I need a slightly more agressive
> shoe....do you know
>   of any trail running shoes that would be
> appropriate? Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ultralightbackpacking/
>
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
>
> ultralightbackpacking-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


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Do You Yahoo!?
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Better yet, try www.fiveten.com

They're in Redlands, CA.

Their men's Access shoe is a pretty good trail runner with *extremely*
sticky rubber, good support and is reasonably lightweight (28 oz the
pair, measured in the store but *with* the wad of paper still in the
toes).

Their Mountain Master is an absolute classic low-top "approach" shoe
and generally acknowledged to have one of the stickiest soles in the
business. If you have to do some bouldering or even just
boulder-hopping on your way, these shoes are the equivalent of the
stickum that was banned for NFL receivers. These *sometimes* show up
at REI.

The Guide Tennie was a sort of wanker shoe for years; a cross between
a rock climbing shoe and an approach shoe, designed to have a lot of
the characteristics of both. But it wasn't a great walking shoe, and
was actually discontinued for a while. This year they've got a rocker
in the sole, and that makes a big difference. I haven't tried this one
out yet, but I think it's got great potential particularly if you have
a bit of climbing experience and/or you're in semi-technical canyons
or around a whole lot of boulders where you're hiking.

I bought the Water Tennies, which should be just perfect for someplace
like Kauai, where you have lots of wet rock, some wading and some
hiking to do, or in some of the slot canyons (same type of terrain,
but both hotter and colder).

david


--- In ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com, LoRee S <sshyone4u@y...>
wrote:
> Hello LoRee here,
>  I just googled 5.10 shoes and walla!! on the net.
> 5.10 shoes www.wwc.co.uk
>
> --- Paul Sailer <paulsailer@a...> wrote:
>
> > how long trips?
> >
> > new balance adventure has more agressive tread thean
> > running but may or may not be comfortable for you
> > since it has a different last than the running shoes
> >
> > For really light shoes-- I mean really light I like
> > the walmart aqua shoes --which I actually use -- but
> > they may not have a good enough tread for you --they
> > work pretty well on rocks because they contour to
> > the rocks, but less well on the ball bearing type
> > slopes with tiny pebbles because they lack tread
> > trekking poles definately help in that situation--
> >
> > 5-10 makes some very lightweight river shoes that
> > are interesting and have sticky rubber bottoms but
> > you'd have a hard time finding them and and they
> > won't be long lasting on the trail
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: oldthymeseeds
> >   To: ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com
> >   Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:34 AM
> >   Subject: [Ultralight Backpacking] Trail Shoes
> >
> >
> >   I would like people's opinions on good trail shoes
> > for some fast
> >   packing trips. The trips would be 3 season ( no
> > winter) average to
> >   long miles, light pack 10-15 pound range and over
> > some rocky terrain. I
> >   currently have a pair of New Balance running shoes
> > that I train for
> >   miles on the road with. They seem to fit my foot
> > better than most
> >   shoes. I am sure I need a slightly more agressive
> > shoe....do you know
> >   of any trail running shoes that would be
> > appropriate? Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ultralightbackpacking/
> >
> >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> > email to:
> >
> > ultralightbackpacking-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

--- In ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com, oldthymeseeds
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> I would like some advise on some light fast high energy food to
carry
> on some 2-3 day fast pack trips....hopefully good tasting too! I
> intend to carry a alcohol burning soda can stove for evening
> meals....lunch will be on the go and breakfast a quick meal
> also....any
> ideas?

I like beans and rice.  I use basmati rice and dehydrated
refried/black beans, but you could use instant rice if you are so
inclined.  Once the rice is done (with excess water) you just add the
bean powder and let it sit until it's done.  I cook mine with crumbled
jerky and carrots, then add a little butter and parmesan when it's all
done.  Tasty and nutritious.

>
> There is 1 message in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. Re: light fast high energy food
>            From: eugenemic
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 20:19:26 -0000
>    From: eugenemic
> Subject: Re: light fast high energy food
>
> --- In ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com,
> oldthymeseeds
> <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > I would like some advise on some light fast high
> energy food to
> carry
> > on some 2-3 day fast pack trips....hopefully good
> tasting too! I
> > intend to carry a alcohol burning soda can stove
> for evening
> > meals....lunch will be on the go and breakfast a
> quick meal
> > also....any
> > ideas?
>
> I like beans and rice.  I use basmati rice and
> dehydrated
> refried/black beans, but you could use instant rice
> if you are so
> inclined.  Once the rice is done (with excess water)
> you just add the
> bean powder and let it sit until it's done.  I cook
> mine with crumbled
> jerky and carrots, then add a little butter and
> parmesan when it's all
> done.  Tasty and nutritious.

Clif bar. ramen noodles. what more do you need to
know?

LabMatt

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

>Clif bar. ramen noodles. what more do you need to
>know?
>
>LabMatt
>
>
Yuck.
Go for the gusto: Snickers and Lipton Sides :-)

Bigfoot

Hi all,
I'm a lurker on this list who finally has a question...(feel free to
just email me directly, especially because I'm not sure if this is off
topic) A friend and I are taking a backpacking trip in late August and
need ideas as to where to  go.  We are limited to Colorado because of
work/time constraints, but estimate we have 6 days of hiking time. We
were thinking of finding a loop in the San Juans. Any suggestions?

thanks for any ideas,
liz

Hi there, sorry for a late reply but,

> Has anyone had experience wearing sandals on backpacking trips in
place
> of regular footwear?

Yep, I swore by my first pair of Teva's, which lasted me an
incredible 9 years! Climbed Mount Kinabalu (Borneo) and walked thru
most SE Asian jungles with them. Later on, on just the
average 'flipflops'.

Guess it depends on your pack weight, strength of your ankles, a bit
of training and are you comfy doing this. A friend of mine swears by
his high army boot types of footwear.

Been reading the entire archive, and finally made it, so below I
post a very short intro about myself. If you wanna know more, feel
free to reply either in pm or to the list. Or sneak on my website
(www.geocities.com/johanvandijk).

Thnx for the list anyway! Enjoy reading it, well most of it ;-))

Currently I am traveling in Guatemala, tomorrow I am off for about a
week of hiking with the Q'echic' Maya of Chicacnab (Cloud forest)
and Rokja (subtropical rainforest), so I might respond late again ;-)

Grtz Johan

Off to try and create a pennystove with my multitool, or just an
excuse to drink some beer.....

Johan van Dijk, born in 1970 in The Netherlands (Europe).

Worked as a marketing manager in the ICT for 3 years and then for 5
years as an ICT project manager/trainer with an intermediate for the
Oil and Gas industry.

Part time dive instructor since 2000. Non stop traveler since may
2003.

Traveling; backpacking, hiking etc thru Egypt, The United Arab
Emirates, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Cambodja, Lao, Australia
and Guatemala.

My diving grounds: The Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Spain,
Malta, Turkey, Israel, Egypt, Barbados, Bonaire, The United Arab
Emirates, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Australia

My hiking was either most dayhikes or multiple day jungle hikes
(bush whacking).
Dayhikes: Germany, Australia, Lao, Thailand

Multiple dayhikes: Java, Sulawesi, Sabah (Malay Borneo), Peninsular
Malaysia, Northern & southern Thailand and Australia.

Living out of a backpack for over 2 years, as light and multi
functional as possible.

Different environments, 1 budget... so not as light as I wish I
could ;-)

hello everyone,
   for those looking at sandals for hiking, may I suggest Jika-tabi,
the same kind of footwear worn by ninjas in ancient Japan. They were
basically heavy duty socks made of hemp cloth, with the big toe
seperate from the rest of the foot. This was to allow for a strap to
come between them, so that woven straw sandals(much like modern thong
sandals) could be worn.

I myself have working on a design to incorporate suede leather, like
the kind used for work gloves, onto the soles, add a little
cushioning, and there you have it! cotton or hemp cloth probably
wouldn't last long outdoors, but with the advent of modern technology,
the sky's the limit as to your choice of material.

anyway, that's just my two cents.

um...it's  a logical conclusion.
--- In ultralightbackpacking@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Ferry"
<brian_a_ferry@y...> wrote:
> Steve & I got our Tyvek from The Kite Studio (www.kitebuilder.com)
> They sell Tyvek Type 1443 (which must be some subvariety of type 14)
> for $3.50 (US) per yard, in a 60 inch width.  We bought ours back in
> January of this year, and at the time I believe it was the best price
> we'd found online.  Your mileage may vary, etc.
>
> To be honest, I haven't done anything with my Tyvek since I bought it
> but take it hiking with me.  I keep meaning to trim it to size, etc.
> but just haven't yet.  It does pack down nice and small, though, and I
> haven't had any soak-through problems yet.
>
> Brian

I've bought type 1422R
tyveck from intothewind.com
for $2.50 a yard 5 ft wide.

Can anyone recommend a good, lightweight sleeping bag for a kid that a) won't
cost a fortune and b) will last him a while? He's six and just outgrew his
little-kid bag. I want to start taking him on trips with me, but I doubt he'll
be able to carry his own gear just yet. So a lightweight bag will be essential,
since it'll be on MY back.

ekd
------
Elizabeth Donald
www.elizabethdonald.com

I keep our pack light by carrying two bags for the
three of us, wife, son (5) and me. We put one down and
then one on top. We can go a bit lighter because the
body heat issue keeps us warm.

If it is above 40F or so we can even use a light
(cheap) fleace blanket under us.

Good luck,
Charles
Bellingham, WA

Charles E.B. Snyder
cebs@...

"The future will be better tomorrow."
Vice President Dan Quayle



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