Thanks for the link. It looks to me that the new girth attachment is only connected to one billet so I would think that it would not have the same pressure distribution it was designed with.

Wenona

Thanks for the link.  It looks to me that the new girth attachment is only
connected to one billet so I would think that it would not have the same
pressure distribution it was designed with.

Wenona

--- In treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com, "Whimzybeads" <whimzybeads@...> wrote:
>
> Here it is.
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/treelesssaddles/photos/album/807832206/pic/1914371\
672/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
>
> Krissa
>
> www.whimzybeads.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: wenonaboucher
>   To: treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:52 AM
>   Subject: [treelesssaddles] Re: new billet system on Freeforms
>
>
>
>   How did you find the picture? I can't find it.
>
>   Wenona
>
>   --- In treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com, "Whimzybeads" <whimzybeads@> wrote:
>   >
>   > Diane...I found the your photos. Very nice adjustment. I am going to do
something similar but I LOVE my english rigging, so will use both billets and I
guess I'll have to have 4 rings sewn on. Now only to find someone that can do
this for me.
>   >
>   > Thanks so much!
>   >
>   > Krissa
>   >
>   > www.whimzybeads.com
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: Diane Schneider
>   > To: treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com
>   > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:06 AM
>   > Subject: Re: [treelesssaddles] Re: new billet system on Freeforms
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > I did modify the rigging on a FreeWest. Cut off the billets and had a D
ring sewn on with a piece of nylon webbing as loop between the billet stub and
the ring. There are pix of in in the photos section but I don't remember what
the album is called. If you can't find it let me know and I can email you a pic.
I'm sure someone could do similar but also reattaching the bottom of the billet.
I wanted a switch to western rigging on my FW.
>   >
>   > Diane
>   >
>   > Whimzybeads wrote:
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > Hi Kathy, I totally agree with you about the breast collar....wouldn't
ride without one. It's part of his "every day wear", as far as I'm concerned. He
wears it on rides, so he should train in it too. The saddle slips even with the
breast collar and then it gets very tight. I just wish those billets were angled
a bit more. I don't use a crupper. The saddle never slips forward...even on very
steep hills.
>   >
>   > I really need to come up with something though. I may contact a saddle
repair person and see what they say about it.
>   >
>   > Krissa
>   >
>   > www.whimzybeads.com
>   >
>

Hi Kate,

I've recently been on the hunt for a treeless dressage saddle as well, and I did
try a Fhoenix Vogue Dressage, which is the newest HM treeless saddle. The
leather is nice and it is a well-made saddle but it didn't work for me. I am in
Canada, and even though it was above freezing and I brought the saddle with me
to the barn, the saddle was HARD when I got on...much harder than the seat of my
treed dressage saddle. It did soften within about 10 minutes, but I wouldn't
want to leave it at the barn during the winter months. My pony seemed to like it
okay. He definitely moved better than he does in his treed saddle, but not as
well as in the Sensation G4 dressage. I liked the girthing set-up because it
allowed me to make sure the saddle was well off his shoulders. When I rode in
the saddle I felt perched and too far off his back, I actually felt less
connected to him than I do in my treed saddle, and defintely was not able to
feel his back as well as I can in my Sensation dressage. It was also really
bouncy. I always ride a sitting trot, and I found it really hard to find my
seat. The dealer told me they do break in somewhat with use, but I could tell it
wasn't the saddle for me.

Saddle preference is a very individual thing, so I think you should try as many
saddles as you can. My objective was to find a saddle that gave me as close a
feel to bareback as I could get, and still have a saddle capable of showing
in...and of course a saddle that allows my pony to move out as well as he does
bareback. I believe I have found that in the Sensation G4 dressage, but it did
take some fiddling to get the seat right for me. One of the benefits of the
Sensations is that they are very customizable. Now that I know what I need, I
have ordered myself a custom G4 with a shorter flap and a smaller seat.

 

I have to send pix privately.  It's the Phoenix ap with dressage focus.  This one was before they came in sizes and were all one size.... so equivalent to 18 inch, but rides fine for some one of a smaller size bc the super squishy foam conforms to your bum ;) it's buttery buttery soft, chocolate brown.  Will send pix shortly.    

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 25, 2009, at 11:49 AM, "Kate" <shabda@earthlink.net> wrote:

 

Hi Janya -
thanks for letting me know you have a saddle available. Are there pictures on the group site, and if so, under what title, or do you have pix elsewhere or that you can send? What model/seat size is it? Is this one of the HM saddles listed on BAEN? And most importantly, where are you in case I'd like to come see it?

Abby recommended that I take a look at this saddle, given what I'm looking for and my feedback on the BF and what didn't work. I've not yet seen one in person, or sat on one, which is my first step. If you can get back to me with more info, and possibly pictures, then maybe we can see if there's a way for me to sit in it.

One major hesitation is the memory foam seat, as I live in an area that is cold in the winter with no way to warm up the saddle prior to riding, as well as buying a saddle I've not been able to demo - the treeless journey is new to me, and I only have so many dollars to commit, so I'm being very careful with where they go and my ability to say no if each saddle isn't the right option.

If anyone has current/more feedback on HM saddles, and the seat, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks much!
Kate

--- In treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com, Janya Orfeyeva <orfeyeva@...> wrote:
>
> I have a foenix for sale for $900. If u don't like it u can always sell it for at least that much. It's only 900 bc I just need the $, and the tack room space.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 1:18 PM, "emc2kate" <shabda@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone -
> I've been itching to use that subject line, as this group reminds me of a saddles singles group, in a totally wonderful way!!;-)) I'm new to both this group and treeless saddles, via the search for a new saddle/s for my Lusitano gelding in dressage training and also aspiring to be an enthusiastic trail horse when we find the right saddle. But getting up to speed rapidly.
>
> Here's the punch line: I'm looking to sit in a Rebecca Softride and/or Heather Moffett SBS or Fhoenix, and I'm in the south Bay Area (Los Gatos, CA) for Thanksgiving, much closer to 'civilization' than I normally am. If you're interested in the background or might be able to help, read on. I can be a bit wordy, so be forewarned!
>
> Thanks to the amazing kindness and generosity of both Abby at Saddling Solutions and Karen Sullivan, I attended Karen's presentation on treeless saddles, and sat my 'butt' in a number of different options. I also picked up a Barefoot Tahoe to try, and although that wasn't the right saddle due to the height and position of the cantle, the process provided a lot of insight and the inspiration to really engage in the 'demo' journey. When I began to feel his back move underneath my seat for the first time in the 3 years that we've been together, and experienced him moving out in a long, swinging walk on a 2 hour trail ride, going up and down hills as well as on the flat, no longer balking due to what I now understand must have been saddle pain, I was in! Showing this willing horse as much kindness as possible and helping him trust it is our biggest lesson, as he was started and trained with somewhat unconscious methods.
>
> So I'm now looking for 1 or 2 saddles -
>
> #1 to support the arena dressage with our trainer, Jeff Ashton-Moore, who is VERY particular about the structure of what we ride in. The seat has to be fairly open and allowing movement, and look traditional enough to show in.
> #2 - to see just what this incredibly strong, energetic horse can do on the trail. We live in the Sierra foothills near Yosemite, and up until now he's never been comfortable on the trail, so we just haven't gone there much, instead focusing on getting both of us to a solid Training Level in dressage.
>
> We are now in Step 2, eagerly awaiting a Sensation Dressage Trail demo saddle from Kate at Forest Horse, who has continued the tradition of incredibly helpful and willing support. Thank you, all of you!
>
> For the last 3 years I've ridden in the same saddle for both activities - a Wintec Pro, and I'm now open to either one saddle that can do both, or possibly 2 saddles to focus on the best of each world, so I'm exploring both options. I'm 54 years old, 5'7", about 153, wearing a size 8/10 pant, or a L in Kerrits tights, with a solid seat and thigh.
>
> Safiib is 15.1, short backed with a big shoulder joint and muscle, narrow from the front, a forward and distinct girth groove, and a fairly flat back and low withers. He's a typical Lusitano gentleman, so when he spooks, he catches himself almost before he moves, and I've developed a good, balanced seat, so treeless feels like an exciting next step to becoming a really balanced rider.
>
> I've learned so much from reading the posts every day, and am so excited about this next phase of riding - so far what my horse has shown me in a treeless saddle both in the arena and on the trail gives me an idea of what he's capable of, and for the first time, the potential I saw 3 years ago feels within reach. Yahoo to the tenth power! Thank you all so much for sharing your experience and wisdom. The hardest thing is to only be able to buy 1-2 saddles, as everyone I talk with feels like a friend! Ah, probably karma ...the good kind...
>
> With warm regards -
> Kate and Safiib
>

 

Interesting, no mention of changeable pommel insert....and absolutely
no way that knee roll would be in the right place for my long
thghs.....
Karen

On 11/25/09, Whimzybeads <whimzybeads@comporium.net> wrote:
> Oh and I did want to forward that when I log onto their website, all kinds
> of warnings pop up. My spyware sure doesn't like it.
>
> Krissa
>
> www.whimzybeads.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mysunnangel
> To: treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:43 PM
> Subject: [treelesssaddles] Dream Team launches treeless saddle
>
>
>
> TREELESS SADDLE specially designed for Hacking and Jumping:
> Over ten years experience with Italian made Torsion treeless saddles has
> led Dream Team Products to design their own saddle. Bringing the proven
> designs of a Torsion style seat together with English style flaps, combining
> optimal fit for the horse and maximum comfort for the rider. This saddle not
> only has features that an active rider asks for but also has a price to
> dream of.
>
> This saddle features everything a treeless saddle enthusiast enjoys plus
> English flaps & Knee rolls.
> . A flexible saddle offering highest comfort level for horse and rider
> . Very affordable as it changes shape, either from one horse to another or
> . It changes shape with your horse's level of training
> . Quality leather and workmanship - soft already from the first ride
> . Combines best design features for comfort and looks
> . Soft padded cushioning and a Torsion style pommel provides a
> Feel-Save-Seat
> . Traditional, English looking flaps with removable knee rolls
> . Dressage style girth straps for closer leg contact
> . Available in 16" or 17", black or brown soft calf leather
>
> The DREAM SADDLES will be available directly from DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS.
> They are already in high demand, no surprise, at the special Launch Offer
> Price of £349.
>
> DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS is offering 50 saddles at this fantastic price. Once
> they are gone the price will go up to the normal retail price of £499.
>
> With over ten years experience with treeless saddles, the team at DREAM
> TEAM PRODUCTS is more than happy to help you choose the right accessories
> for your horse/pony. They have increased the choice of dressage style girths
> and will be able to offer a budget girth from £20 to the best-you-can-buy
> Torsion girth for £99, and various good alternatives in between.
>
> A special DREAM PAD designed by Equitex, Italian's specialist for treeless
> pads, will be available for the DREAM SADDLE in two styles. An already well
> known High Wither style and a Standard Flat Backed style. These Pads have
> been specially shaped and designed to suit the DREAM SADDLE.
> Help is on hand assessing which style Pad would be more suitable for your
> horse or pony.
> As usual the staff at DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS can assist you in making an
> informed decision.
>
> DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS - the Specialists for treeless Saddles
> For more information visit our Web site on www.dreamteamproducts.com or
> contact us on 08450 725 765 as not all new things are on the Web just yet
>
> (copied from http://treelesssaddles.blog.co.uk/)
> I do not think it is here yet in the US but I came across this info. so I
> thought I would share.
> Rachel
>
>
>
>

 

Hi Kate -

    I keep my saddle in the house!  Memory foam seats are heavenly!

Julie V - www.ivydell.com

 

 

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Kate <shabda@earthlink.net> wrote:

 

Hi Janya -

<text snipped>

One major hesitation is the memory foam seat, as I live in an area that is cold in the winter with no way to warm up the saddle prior to riding, as well as buying a saddle I've not been able to demo - the treeless journey is new to me, and I only have so many dollars to commit, so I'm being very careful with where they go and my ability to say no if each saddle isn't the right option.

.

 

Looks like a nice well-made saddle, but there's no way you'd be jumping much of anything with that pommel! The saddle will not appeal to people who are serious about jumping. At least with the Sensation jumping saddle they've greatly reduced the pommel.

Karen in Kanada

--- In treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com, "mysunnangel" <mysunnangel@...> wrote:
>
> TREELESS SADDLE specially designed for Hacking and Jumping:
> Over ten years experience with Italian made Torsion treeless saddles has led Dream Team Products to design their own saddle. Bringing the proven designs of a Torsion style seat together with English style flaps, combining optimal fit for the horse and maximum comfort for the rider. This saddle not only has features that an active rider asks for but also has a price to dream of.
>
> This saddle features everything a treeless saddle enthusiast enjoys plus English flaps & Knee rolls.
> • A flexible saddle offering highest comfort level for horse and rider
> • Very affordable as it changes shape, either from one horse to another or
> • It changes shape with your horse's level of training
> • Quality leather and workmanship – soft already from the first ride
> • Combines best design features for comfort and looks
> • Soft padded cushioning and a Torsion style pommel provides a Feel-Save-Seat
> • Traditional, English looking flaps with removable knee rolls
> • Dressage style girth straps for closer leg contact
> • Available in 16" or 17", black or brown soft calf leather
>
> The DREAM SADDLES will be available directly from DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS.
> They are already in high demand, no surprise, at the special Launch Offer Price of £349.
>
> DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS is offering 50 saddles at this fantastic price. Once they are gone the price will go up to the normal retail price of £499.
>
> With over ten years experience with treeless saddles, the team at DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS is more than happy to help you choose the right accessories for your horse/pony. They have increased the choice of dressage style girths and will be able to offer a budget girth from £20 to the best-you-can-buy Torsion girth for £99, and various good alternatives in between.
>
> A special DREAM PAD designed by Equitex, Italian's specialist for treeless pads, will be available for the DREAM SADDLE in two styles. An already well known High Wither style and a Standard Flat Backed style. These Pads have been specially shaped and designed to suit the DREAM SADDLE.
> Help is on hand assessing which style Pad would be more suitable for your horse or pony.
> As usual the staff at DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS can assist you in making an informed decision.
>
> DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS - the Specialists for treeless Saddles
> For more information visit our Web site on www.dreamteamproducts.com or contact us on 08450 725 765 as not all new things are on the Web just yet
>
> (copied from http://treelesssaddles.blog.co.uk/)
> I do not think it is here yet in the US but I came across this info. so I thought I would share.
> Rachel
>

 

Hi Janya -
thanks for letting me know you have a saddle available. Are there pictures on the group site, and if so, under what title, or do you have pix elsewhere or that you can send? What model/seat size is it? Is this one of the HM saddles listed on BAEN? And most importantly, where are you in case I'd like to come see it?

Abby recommended that I take a look at this saddle, given what I'm looking for and my feedback on the BF and what didn't work. I've not yet seen one in person, or sat on one, which is my first step. If you can get back to me with more info, and possibly pictures, then maybe we can see if there's a way for me to sit in it.

One major hesitation is the memory foam seat, as I live in an area that is cold in the winter with no way to warm up the saddle prior to riding, as well as buying a saddle I've not been able to demo - the treeless journey is new to me, and I only have so many dollars to commit, so I'm being very careful with where they go and my ability to say no if each saddle isn't the right option.

If anyone has current/more feedback on HM saddles, and the seat, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks much!
Kate

--- In treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com, Janya Orfeyeva <orfeyeva@...> wrote:
>
> I have a foenix for sale for $900. If u don't like it u can always sell it for at least that much. It's only 900 bc I just need the $, and the tack room space.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 1:18 PM, "emc2kate" <shabda@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone -
> I've been itching to use that subject line, as this group reminds me of a saddles singles group, in a totally wonderful way!!;-)) I'm new to both this group and treeless saddles, via the search for a new saddle/s for my Lusitano gelding in dressage training and also aspiring to be an enthusiastic trail horse when we find the right saddle. But getting up to speed rapidly.
>
> Here's the punch line: I'm looking to sit in a Rebecca Softride and/or Heather Moffett SBS or Fhoenix, and I'm in the south Bay Area (Los Gatos, CA) for Thanksgiving, much closer to 'civilization' than I normally am. If you're interested in the background or might be able to help, read on. I can be a bit wordy, so be forewarned!
>
> Thanks to the amazing kindness and generosity of both Abby at Saddling Solutions and Karen Sullivan, I attended Karen's presentation on treeless saddles, and sat my 'butt' in a number of different options. I also picked up a Barefoot Tahoe to try, and although that wasn't the right saddle due to the height and position of the cantle, the process provided a lot of insight and the inspiration to really engage in the 'demo' journey. When I began to feel his back move underneath my seat for the first time in the 3 years that we've been together, and experienced him moving out in a long, swinging walk on a 2 hour trail ride, going up and down hills as well as on the flat, no longer balking due to what I now understand must have been saddle pain, I was in! Showing this willing horse as much kindness as possible and helping him trust it is our biggest lesson, as he was started and trained with somewhat unconscious methods.
>
> So I'm now looking for 1 or 2 saddles -
>
> #1 to support the arena dressage with our trainer, Jeff Ashton-Moore, who is VERY particular about the structure of what we ride in. The seat has to be fairly open and allowing movement, and look traditional enough to show in.
> #2 - to see just what this incredibly strong, energetic horse can do on the trail. We live in the Sierra foothills near Yosemite, and up until now he's never been comfortable on the trail, so we just haven't gone there much, instead focusing on getting both of us to a solid Training Level in dressage.
>
> We are now in Step 2, eagerly awaiting a Sensation Dressage Trail demo saddle from Kate at Forest Horse, who has continued the tradition of incredibly helpful and willing support. Thank you, all of you!
>
> For the last 3 years I've ridden in the same saddle for both activities - a Wintec Pro, and I'm now open to either one saddle that can do both, or possibly 2 saddles to focus on the best of each world, so I'm exploring both options. I'm 54 years old, 5'7", about 153, wearing a size 8/10 pant, or a L in Kerrits tights, with a solid seat and thigh.
>
> Safiib is 15.1, short backed with a big shoulder joint and muscle, narrow from the front, a forward and distinct girth groove, and a fairly flat back and low withers. He's a typical Lusitano gentleman, so when he spooks, he catches himself almost before he moves, and I've developed a good, balanced seat, so treeless feels like an exciting next step to becoming a really balanced rider.
>
> I've learned so much from reading the posts every day, and am so excited about this next phase of riding - so far what my horse has shown me in a treeless saddle both in the arena and on the trail gives me an idea of what he's capable of, and for the first time, the potential I saw 3 years ago feels within reach. Yahoo to the tenth power! Thank you all so much for sharing your experience and wisdom. The hardest thing is to only be able to buy 1-2 saddles, as everyone I talk with feels like a friend! Ah, probably karma ...the good kind...
>
> With warm regards -
> Kate and Safiib
>

 

Hi Janya -

<text snipped>

Looks like a nice well-made saddle, but there's no way you'd be jumping much of
anything with that pommel! The saddle will not appeal to people who are serious
about jumping. At least with the Sensation jumping saddle they've greatly
reduced the pommel.

Karen in Kanada

--- In treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com, "mysunnangel" <mysunnangel@...> wrote:
>
>  TREELESS SADDLE specially designed for Hacking and Jumping:
> Over ten years experience with Italian made Torsion treeless saddles has led
Dream Team Products to design their own saddle. Bringing the proven designs of a
Torsion style seat together with English style flaps, combining optimal fit for
the horse and maximum comfort for the rider. This saddle not only has features
that an active rider asks for but also has a price to dream of.
>
> This saddle features everything a treeless saddle enthusiast enjoys plus
English flaps & Knee rolls.
> • A flexible saddle offering highest comfort level for horse and rider
> • Very affordable as it changes shape, either from one horse to another or
> • It changes shape with your horse's level of training
> • Quality leather and workmanship – soft already from the first ride
> • Combines best design features for comfort and looks
> • Soft padded cushioning and a Torsion style pommel provides a Feel-Save-Seat
> • Traditional, English looking flaps with removable knee rolls
> • Dressage style girth straps for closer leg contact
> • Available in 16" or 17", black or brown soft calf leather
>
> The DREAM SADDLES will be available directly from DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS.
> They are already in high demand, no surprise, at the special Launch Offer
Price of £349.
>
> DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS is offering 50 saddles at this fantastic price. Once they
are gone the price will go up to the normal retail price of £499.
>
> With over ten years experience with treeless saddles, the team at DREAM TEAM
PRODUCTS is more than happy to help you choose the right accessories for your
horse/pony. They have increased the choice of dressage style girths and will be
able to offer a budget girth from £20 to the best-you-can-buy Torsion girth for
£99, and various good alternatives in between.
>
> A special DREAM PAD designed by Equitex, Italian's specialist for treeless
pads, will be available for the DREAM SADDLE in two styles. An already well
known High Wither style and a Standard Flat Backed style. These Pads have been
specially shaped and designed to suit the DREAM SADDLE.
> Help is on hand assessing which style Pad would be more suitable for your
horse or pony.
> As usual the staff at DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS can assist you in making an informed
decision.
>
> DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS - the Specialists for treeless Saddles
> For more information visit our Web site on www.dreamteamproducts.com or
contact us on 08450 725 765 as not all new things are on the Web just yet
>
> (copied from http://treelesssaddles.blog.co.uk/)
> I do not think it is here yet in the US but I came across this info. so I
thought I would share.
>    Rachel
>

Hi Janya -
thanks for letting me know you have a saddle available.  Are there pictures on
the group site, and if so, under what title, or do you have pix elsewhere or
that you can send?  What model/seat size is it?  Is this one of the HM saddles
listed on BAEN?  And most importantly, where are you in case I'd like to come
see it?

Abby recommended that I take a look at this saddle, given what I'm looking for
and my feedback on the BF and what didn't work. I've not yet seen one in person,
or sat on one, which is my first step.  If you can get back to me with more
info, and possibly pictures, then maybe we can see if there's a way for me to
sit in it.

One major hesitation is the memory foam seat, as I live in an area that is cold
in the winter with no way to warm up the saddle prior to riding, as well as
buying a saddle I've not been able to demo - the treeless journey is new to me,
and I only have so many dollars to commit, so I'm being very careful with where
they go and my ability to say no if each saddle isn't the right option.

If anyone has current/more feedback on HM saddles, and the seat, I'd love to
hear it.

Thanks much!
Kate




--- In treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com, Janya Orfeyeva <orfeyeva@...> wrote:
>
> I have a foenix for sale for $900.  If u don't like it u can always sell it
for at least that much.  It's only 900 bc I just need the $, and the tack room
space.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 23, 2009, at 1:18 PM, "emc2kate" <shabda@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone -
> I've been itching to use that subject line, as this group reminds me of a
saddles singles group, in a totally wonderful way!!;-))  I'm  new to both this
group and treeless saddles, via the search for a new saddle/s for my Lusitano
gelding in dressage training and also aspiring to be an enthusiastic trail horse
when we find the right saddle.  But getting up to speed rapidly.
>
> Here's the punch line:  I'm looking to sit in a Rebecca Softride and/or
Heather Moffett SBS or Fhoenix, and I'm in the south Bay Area (Los Gatos, CA)
for Thanksgiving, much closer to 'civilization' than I normally am.  If you're
interested in the background or might be able to help, read on.  I can be a bit
wordy, so be forewarned!
>
> Thanks to the amazing kindness and generosity of both Abby at Saddling
Solutions and Karen Sullivan, I attended Karen's presentation on treeless
saddles, and sat my 'butt' in a number of different options.  I also picked up a
Barefoot Tahoe to try, and although that wasn't the right saddle due to the
height and position of the cantle, the process provided a lot of insight and the
inspiration to really engage in the 'demo' journey.  When I began to feel his
back move underneath my seat for the first time in the 3 years that we've been
together, and experienced him moving out in a long, swinging walk on a 2 hour
trail ride, going up and down hills as well as on the flat, no longer balking
due to what I now understand must have been saddle pain, I was in!  Showing this
willing horse as much kindness as possible and helping him trust it is our
biggest lesson, as he was started and trained with somewhat unconscious methods.
>
> So I'm now looking for 1 or 2 saddles -
>
> #1 to support the arena dressage with our trainer, Jeff Ashton-Moore, who is
VERY particular about the structure of what we ride in.  The seat has to be
fairly open and allowing movement, and look traditional enough to show in.
> #2 - to see just what this incredibly strong, energetic horse can do on the
trail.  We live in the Sierra foothills near Yosemite, and up until now he's
never been comfortable on the trail, so we just haven't gone there much, instead
focusing on getting both of us to a solid Training Level in dressage.
>
> We are now in Step 2, eagerly awaiting a Sensation Dressage Trail demo saddle
from Kate at Forest Horse, who has continued the tradition of incredibly helpful
and willing support.  Thank you, all of you!
>
> For the last 3 years I've ridden in the same saddle for both activities - a
Wintec Pro, and I'm now open to either one saddle that can do both, or possibly
2 saddles to focus on the best of each world, so I'm exploring both options. 
I'm 54 years old, 5'7", about 153, wearing a size 8/10 pant, or a L in Kerrits
tights, with a solid seat and thigh.
>
> Safiib is 15.1, short backed with a big shoulder joint and muscle, narrow from
the front, a forward and distinct girth groove, and a fairly flat back and low
withers.  He's a typical Lusitano gentleman, so when he spooks, he catches
himself almost before he moves, and I've developed a good, balanced seat, so
treeless feels like an exciting next step to becoming a really balanced rider.
>
> I've learned so much from reading the posts every day, and am so excited about
this next phase of riding - so far what my horse has shown me in a treeless
saddle both in the arena and on the trail gives me an idea of what he's capable
of, and for the first time, the potential I saw 3 years ago feels within reach. 
Yahoo to the tenth power!  Thank you all so much for sharing your experience and
wisdom.  The hardest thing is to only be able to buy 1-2 saddles, as everyone I
talk with feels like a friend!  Ah, probably karma ...the good kind...
>
> With warm regards -
> Kate and Safiib
>

Interesting, no mention of changeable pommel insert....and absolutely
no way that knee roll would be in the right place for my long
thghs.....
Karen

On 11/25/09, Whimzybeads <whimzybeads@...> wrote:
> Oh and I did want to forward that when I log onto their website, all kinds
> of warnings pop up.  My spyware sure doesn't like it.
>
> Krissa
>
> www.whimzybeads.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: mysunnangel
>   To: treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:43 PM
>   Subject: [treelesssaddles] Dream Team launches treeless saddle
>
>
>
>   TREELESS SADDLE specially designed for Hacking and Jumping:
>   Over ten years experience with Italian made Torsion treeless saddles has
> led Dream Team Products to design their own saddle. Bringing the proven
> designs of a Torsion style seat together with English style flaps, combining
> optimal fit for the horse and maximum comfort for the rider. This saddle not
> only has features that an active rider asks for but also has a price to
> dream of.
>
>   This saddle features everything a treeless saddle enthusiast enjoys plus
> English flaps & Knee rolls.
>   . A flexible saddle offering highest comfort level for horse and rider
>   . Very affordable as it changes shape, either from one horse to another or
>   . It changes shape with your horse's level of training
>   . Quality leather and workmanship - soft already from the first ride
>   . Combines best design features for comfort and looks
>   . Soft padded cushioning and a Torsion style pommel provides a
> Feel-Save-Seat
>   . Traditional, English looking flaps with removable knee rolls
>   . Dressage style girth straps for closer leg contact
>   . Available in 16" or 17", black or brown soft calf leather
>
>   The DREAM SADDLES will be available directly from DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS.
>   They are already in high demand, no surprise, at the special Launch Offer
> Price of £349.
>
>   DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS is offering 50 saddles at this fantastic price. Once
> they are gone the price will go up to the normal retail price of £499.
>
>   With over ten years experience with treeless saddles, the team at DREAM
> TEAM PRODUCTS is more than happy to help you choose the right accessories
> for your horse/pony. They have increased the choice of dressage style girths
> and will be able to offer a budget girth from £20 to the best-you-can-buy
> Torsion girth for £99, and various good alternatives in between.
>
>   A special DREAM PAD designed by Equitex, Italian's specialist for treeless
> pads, will be available for the DREAM SADDLE in two styles. An already well
> known High Wither style and a Standard Flat Backed style. These Pads have
> been specially shaped and designed to suit the DREAM SADDLE.
>   Help is on hand assessing which style Pad would be more suitable for your
> horse or pony.
>   As usual the staff at DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS can assist you in making an
> informed decision.
>
>   DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS - the Specialists for treeless Saddles
>   For more information visit our Web site on www.dreamteamproducts.com or
> contact us on 08450 725 765 as not all new things are on the Web just yet
>
>   (copied from http://treelesssaddles.blog.co.uk/)
>   I do not think it is here yet in the US but I came across this info. so I
> thought I would share.
>   Rachel
>
>
>
>

Hi All,

I just listed a Suber Pad on Ebay along with some other things if anyone is
interested.

Thanks,

Karen

----- Original Message -----

From: mysunnangel

To: treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:43 PM

Subject: [treelesssaddles] Dream Team launches treeless saddle

 

TREELESS SADDLE specially designed for Hacking and Jumping:
Over ten years experience with Italian made Torsion treeless saddles has led Dream Team Products to design their own saddle. Bringing the proven designs of a Torsion style seat together with English style flaps, combining optimal fit for the horse and maximum comfort for the rider. This saddle not only has features that an active rider asks for but also has a price to dream of.

This saddle features everything a treeless saddle enthusiast enjoys plus English flaps & Knee rolls.
• A flexible saddle offering highest comfort level for horse and rider
• Very affordable as it changes shape, either from one horse to another or
• It changes shape with your horse's level of training
• Quality leather and workmanship – soft already from the first ride
• Combines best design features for comfort and looks
• Soft padded cushioning and a Torsion style pommel provides a Feel-Save-Seat
• Traditional, English looking flaps with removable knee rolls
• Dressage style girth straps for closer leg contact
• Available in 16" or 17", black or brown soft calf leather

The DREAM SADDLES will be available directly from DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS.
They are already in high demand, no surprise, at the special Launch Offer Price of £349.

DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS is offering 50 saddles at this fantastic price. Once they are gone the price will go up to the normal retail price of £499.

With over ten years experience with treeless saddles, the team at DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS is more than happy to help you choose the right accessories for your horse/pony. They have increased the choice of dressage style girths and will be able to offer a budget girth from £20 to the best-you-can-buy Torsion girth for £99, and various good alternatives in between.

A special DREAM PAD designed by Equitex, Italian's specialist for treeless pads, will be available for the DREAM SADDLE in two styles. An already well known High Wither style and a Standard Flat Backed style. These Pads have been specially shaped and designed to suit the DREAM SADDLE.
Help is on hand assessing which style Pad would be more suitable for your horse or pony.
As usual the staff at DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS can assist you in making an informed decision.

DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS - the Specialists for treeless Saddles
For more information visit our Web site on www.dreamteamproducts.com or contact us on 08450 725 765 as not all new things are on the Web just yet

(copied from http://treelesssaddles.blog.co.uk/)
I do not think it is here yet in the US but I came across this info. so I thought I would share.
Rachel

----- Original Message -----

From: mysunnangel

To: treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:43 PM

Subject: [treelesssaddles] Dream Team launches treeless saddle

 

TREELESS SADDLE specially designed for Hacking and Jumping:
Over ten years experience with Italian made Torsion treeless saddles has led Dream Team Products to design their own saddle. Bringing the proven designs of a Torsion style seat together with English style flaps, combining optimal fit for the horse and maximum comfort for the rider. This saddle not only has features that an active rider asks for but also has a price to dream of.

This saddle features everything a treeless saddle enthusiast enjoys plus English flaps & Knee rolls.
• A flexible saddle offering highest comfort level for horse and rider
• Very affordable as it changes shape, either from one horse to another or
• It changes shape with your horse's level of training
• Quality leather and workmanship – soft already from the first ride
• Combines best design features for comfort and looks
• Soft padded cushioning and a Torsion style pommel provides a Feel-Save-Seat
• Traditional, English looking flaps with removable knee rolls
• Dressage style girth straps for closer leg contact
• Available in 16" or 17", black or brown soft calf leather

The DREAM SADDLES will be available directly from DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS.
They are already in high demand, no surprise, at the special Launch Offer Price of £349.

DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS is offering 50 saddles at this fantastic price. Once they are gone the price will go up to the normal retail price of £499.

With over ten years experience with treeless saddles, the team at DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS is more than happy to help you choose the right accessories for your horse/pony. They have increased the choice of dressage style girths and will be able to offer a budget girth from £20 to the best-you-can-buy Torsion girth for £99, and various good alternatives in between.

A special DREAM PAD designed by Equitex, Italian's specialist for treeless pads, will be available for the DREAM SADDLE in two styles. An already well known High Wither style and a Standard Flat Backed style. These Pads have been specially shaped and designed to suit the DREAM SADDLE.
Help is on hand assessing which style Pad would be more suitable for your horse or pony.
As usual the staff at DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS can assist you in making an informed decision.

DREAM TEAM PRODUCTS - the Specialists for treeless Saddles
For more information visit our Web site on www.dreamteamproducts.com or contact us on 08450 725 765 as not all new things are on the Web just yet

(copied from http://treelesssaddles.blog.co.uk/)
I do not think it is here yet in the US but I came across this info. so I thought I would share.
Rachel

 

Here it is.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/treelesssaddles/photos/album/807832206/pic/1914371672/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

 

Krissa

 

www.whimzybeads.com

 

It doesn't take much of an imbalance to cause problems. When I was looking at my
new gelding he was moving fine the first time I went to try him. 2 weeks later,
he was a little off on the front. He had just been shod. I looked at his feet
and there was an imbalance in his heels. I got off and showed it to the owner
and they had another farrier fix it. He was fine after being balanced. I had him
vetted and he was sound. I had his shoes pulled and they were too small, which I
knew. He has been barefoot for almost a year and he moves great in his treeless
saddle. He also had some signs of an ill fitting treed saddle. He had white hair
on both sides of his withers, which is now gone.

All of this can certainly affect the horse's movement and body.

Karen

--- In treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com, Karen Sullivan <greymare56@...> wrote:
>
> April, I agree with a whole lot of this, except that I am seeing so
> many unbalanced trim and shod horses, in that the feet are causing the
> problems up higher in the body, not the other way around.  It is
> amazing how many unbalanced feet i see, that straighten out with just
> a sensible, balanced trim...and the horses then move much better....
>
> First thing i look at is the feet....and saddle fit....those two
> things along fix a lot of problems....
> Karen
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: wenonaboucher

To: treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:52 AM

Subject: [treelesssaddles] Re: new billet system on Freeforms

 

How did you find the picture? I can't find it.

Wenona

--- In treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com, "Whimzybeads" <whimzybeads@...> wrote:
>
> Diane...I found the your photos. Very nice adjustment. I am going to do something similar but I LOVE my english rigging, so will use both billets and I guess I'll have to have 4 rings sewn on. Now only to find someone that can do this for me.
>
> Thanks so much!
>
> Krissa
>
> www.whimzybeads.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Diane Schneider
> To: treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [treelesssaddles] Re: new billet system on Freeforms
>
>
>
> I did modify the rigging on a FreeWest. Cut off the billets and had a D ring sewn on with a piece of nylon webbing as loop between the billet stub and the ring. There are pix of in in the photos section but I don't remember what the album is called. If you can't find it let me know and I can email you a pic. I'm sure someone could do similar but also reattaching the bottom of the billet. I wanted a switch to western rigging on my FW.
>
> Diane
>
> Whimzybeads wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Kathy, I totally agree with you about the breast collar....wouldn't ride without one. It's part of his "every day wear", as far as I'm concerned. He wears it on rides, so he should train in it too. The saddle slips even with the breast collar and then it gets very tight. I just wish those billets were angled a bit more. I don't use a crupper. The saddle never slips forward...even on very steep hills.
>
> I really need to come up with something though. I may contact a saddle repair person and see what they say about it.
>
> Krissa
>
> www.whimzybeads.com
>

How did you find the picture?  I can't find it.

Wenona

--- In treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com, "Whimzybeads" <whimzybeads@...> wrote:
>
> Diane...I found the your photos.  Very nice adjustment.  I am going to do
something similar but I LOVE my english rigging, so will use both billets and I
guess I'll have to have 4 rings sewn on.  Now only to find someone that can do
this for me.
>
> Thanks so much!
>
> Krissa
>
> www.whimzybeads.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Diane Schneider
>   To: treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:06 AM
>   Subject: Re: [treelesssaddles] Re: new billet system on Freeforms
>
>
>
>   I did modify the rigging on a FreeWest.  Cut off the billets and had a D
ring sewn on with a piece of nylon webbing as loop between the billet stub and
the ring.  There are pix of in in the photos section but I don't remember what
the album is called.  If you can't find it let me know and I can email you a
pic.  I'm sure someone could do similar but also reattaching the bottom of the
billet.  I wanted a switch to western rigging on my FW.
>
>   Diane
>
>   Whimzybeads wrote:
>
>
>
>     Hi Kathy,  I totally agree with you about the breast collar....wouldn't
ride without one.  It's part of his "every day wear", as far as I'm concerned. 
He wears it on rides, so he should train in it too.  The saddle slips even with
the breast collar and then it gets very tight.  I just wish those billets were
angled a bit more.  I don't use a crupper.  The saddle never slips
forward...even on very steep hills.
>
>     I really need to come up with something though.  I may contact a saddle
repair person and see what they say about it.
>
>     Krissa
>
>     www.whimzybeads.com
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Katy Hart

To: treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:39 PM

Subject: RE: [treelesssaddles] Re: rider technique-now hoof imbalance

 

my husband is a farrier and i have to agree with Karen.  it's amazing how many people out there don't know if their horse's feet are actually balanced to the horse, to each other, and each in their own right.  add the mentality that most of us grew up with ... throw on a saddle without thinking ... and you have 2 major issues that easily fixable but often the last to be thought of.

kt

---

From: treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com [mailto:treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Sullivan
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 11:32 PM
To: treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [treelesssaddles] Re: rider technique-now hoof imbalance

 

April, I agree with a whole lot of this, except that I am seeing so
many unbalanced trim and shod horses, in that the feet are causing the
problems up higher in the body, not the other way around. It is
amazing how many unbalanced feet i see, that straighten out with just
a sensible, balanced trim...and the horses then move much better....

First thing i look at is the feet....and saddle fit....those two
things along fix a lot of problems....
Karen

----- Original Message -----

From: Karen Sullivan

To: treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:31 PM

Subject: Re: [treelesssaddles] Re: rider technique-now hoof imbalance

 

April, I agree with a whole lot of this, except that I am seeing so
many unbalanced trim and shod horses, in that the feet are causing the
problems up higher in the body, not the other way around. It is
amazing how many unbalanced feet i see, that straighten out with just
a sensible, balanced trim...and the horses then move much better....

First thing i look at is the feet....and saddle fit....those two
things along fix a lot of problems....
Karen

On 11/24/09, Holistic Horse Works <ridetreeless@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Moving and posting with the horse-like rolling on a wave.
> Front feet not the same?-not balanced?-that comes from issues higher
> up-withers-ribs not being able to move and flex-muscles in spasm-locking the
> horse 'down' and one leg over compensates-gives you the high low syndrome.
> Needs bodywork.
> Horses that throw you to one diagonal-same thing-uncomfortable for them to
> work the other diagonal-they are not just being lazy.
> So if you are treeless and one side of the horse gives to leg pressure but
> the other side does not-the ribs are locked in spasm.
> Does your horse trot with the tail to one side? This is not a good sign
> either-and it is not just an ''arab thing'' so all you ''leftie's'' that
> just mount from the left-start mounting and dismounting from the right side
> as well-work both sides of your horse-and do your horse
> yoga's.http://www.youtube.com/user/HolisticHorseWorks if your horse cannot
> easily do all these moves then professional bodywork is needed in the
> equation of going treeless-which is just part of the ''fix''.
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Holistic Horse Works

To: treelesssaddles@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:14 PM

Subject: [treelesssaddles] Re: rider technique-now hoof imbalance

 

Moving and posting with the horse-like rolling on a wave.
Front feet not the same?-not balanced?-that comes from issues higher up-withers-ribs not being able to move and flex-muscles in spasm-locking the horse 'down' and one leg over compensates-gives you the high low syndrome. Needs bodywork.
Horses that throw you to one diagonal-same thing-uncomfortable for them to work the other diagonal-they are not just being lazy.
So if you are treeless and one side of the horse gives to leg pressure but the other side does not-the ribs are locked in spasm.
Does your horse trot with the tail to one side? This is not a good sign either-and it is not just an ''arab thing'' so all you ''leftie's'' that just mount from the left-start mounting and dismounting from the right side as well-work both sides of your horse-and do your horse yoga's.http://www.youtube.com/user/HolisticHorseWorks if your horse cannot easily do all these moves then professional bodywork is needed in the equation of going treeless-which is just part of the ''fix''.