> >
> > > > Dear all,
> > > >
> > > > a friend has asked about the translator of the following poem
by Matsuo Basho
> > > >
> > > > natsu-gusa ya (summer grass!)
> > > > tsuwamono-domo ga (the humble soldier)
> > > > yume no ato (dream's end)
> > > >
> > > > - Matsuo Basho
> > > >
> > > > Summer grass in my dreams
> > > > Feilds of Takedateh
> > > > Visions of strong men's dreams
> > > >
> > > > - Translator ???
> > > > ..............................................
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Has anyone read this translation? and knows the translator?
> > > > Line two seems to include spelling mistakes
> > > >
> > > > maybe
> > > >
> > > > fields of death ?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your help.
> > > > GABI
> > > >
> > >
> > > summer grass --
> > > the humble soldier
> > > dream's end
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
This is more or less the literal translation with a hint towards
Basho's embedded complexities.
My feeling is that this is an indirect allusion to the "alluvial
plains" of Chinese lore.
I know that there is a general theme to be a soldier's dream of the
day war ends and the swords are beaten back into plow-shares.
Basho has a knack for slipping the profound into a mundane scene.
Such is his grand mastery... but, then again... I LOVE HAIKU... so
my arrow may have never left the notch... to beg a metaphor from
archery (eh? Gabi san).
ciao... chibi
> > >
> >
> > Thanks for your thoughts, Chibi san !
> >
> > Just one thought about the TSUWAMONO
> >
> > they are not the humble soldiers but the great warriors !
> >
> > tsuwamono, a person, who is trained in the use of weapons and
makes
> > use of them. A brave and strong warrior.
> > yuukan na hito, (used in the Heian period)
> > strong warrior, mosa
> >
> > Here
> >
> > yume no ato, what is left of his/her dream
> >
> > Have you been to Hiraizumi? It is a great place indeed and full of
> > their dreams and memories. I was there many years ago and it is
> quite
> > unforgettable. Now even a world heritage site.
> >
> > quote from my BLOG
> > Basho followed in the footsteps of the tragic fate of the warrious
> > Yoshitsune and Benkei (chinkon no nen ) with this visit. He might
> also
> > have used the travel to explore and find the depth and tragedy of
> his
> > own being.
> >
> >
> > Gabi
> >
> > ...........................................................
> > Hi
> >
> > If I may add a comment ... Toshiharu Oseko, in his book 'Basho's
> > Haiku', says of domo "domo: a suffix for plural. In olden times
> domo
> > was used for inferior, and tachi for superior such as god, noble,
> > etc." So maybe 'humble soldier' is appropriate.
> >
> > Such a powerful anti-war poem....
> >
> > Thanks - Bob Bates
> >
>
> ....................................................................
> ..
> >
> > Hi Bob,
> > thanks for your information.
> >
> > In might be generally true to differentiate between domo and
tachi,
> > but with respect to this particular haiku, Basho is remembering
> >
> > Benkei and Yoshitsune, some of the strongest and powerful
tsuwamono
> we
> > have in Japanese history.
> >
82% 82%E3%81%AE&stype=1&dtype=0
> > yuuki no aru tsuyoi hito
> > hijoo ni tsuyoi musha
> >
> >
> > Gabi
> >
> Hi
>
> Yes, Benkei and Yoshitsune... but, Bashou used "domo" and thus
> introduced a bit of ambiquity... ah! O Bashou sama. I would like
to
> think this in my little world, but, the variety in interpretation
is
> indeed the mark of master poetry.
>
> Gabi and Bob, thanks to both.
>
> ciao... chibi
>
........................................................................................
I would like to contribute the following to this interesting
discussion.
In the prose passage that precedes this haiku in "Narrow Road," Basho
is fairly explicit regarding what inspired this haiku. I direct
anyone who is interested in this information to any of the available
translations of "Narrow Road."
For a discussion of this haiku online, see:
Here is the most relevant passage from the above cited source:
BASHO'S POEM: The season word is Natsugusa indicating summer. There
are several interpretations of the term warriors, tsuwamonodomo. 1)
that it refers to the Fujiwara family at Hiraizumi. 2) that it refers
to Yoshitsune and his followers holed up and making their last stand
at Takadachi. The term yume however seems to suggest that the poem
applies to both since both saw their dreams end here.
A vast expanse of time and space are encapsulated in these 17
syllables. In the image of the Tsuwamonodomo each soldier's dream is
compared to each blade of grass. The emptiness of prosperity and
success has already been alluded to in Hwang's dream and is
reinforced here.
Natsugusa, summer grasses, is a variation of Tu Fu's term shunso,
spring grasses. Shunso has a gentle quality about it while natsugusa
is muggy, stifling, and rank. The summer grass is much easier to
associate with the violence and chaos of soldiers at war. The rank
confusion of overgrown weeds suggests the disorder of war. In the
past great warriors dreamed of glory, but now all that remains are
the phantoms of their defeat. Similarly, the once great prosperity of
the Fujiwaras was no more substantial that a dream. Both the
prosperity and the dreams of glory turned out to be empty; the only
reality is a tangle of summer weeds. Compared to the eternity of
nature, man's accomplishments are fleeting, this is the inescapable
message of the poem.
[end of excerpt]
There is also a concise, yet pithy, discussion of this haiku in
Shirane's "Traces of Dreams."
Regarding "tsuwamono:"
Henderson, in "An Introduction to Haiku," says:
'tsuwamono', literally "the strong ones," was a name for medieval
warriors, somewhat archaic even in Basho's time; -domo is a plural
suffix....
warriors, somewhat archaic even in Basho's time; -domo is a plural
suffix....
[end of excerpt]
The commentator Ehara is quoted thusly in Ueda's "Basho and His
Interpreters" regarding what gives more than sentimental meaning to
this haiku:
If the poem had consisted of just the last two phrases, it would be
nothing more than a plain expression of sentimental nostalgia. But
the simple presentation of the actual scene in the opening phrase
gives a strong sense of reality to that mostalgic sentiment. The
transitoriness of glory, the emptiness of prosperity, all are seen in
the luxuriant summer grass.
nothing more than a plain expression of sentimental nostalgia. But
the simple presentation of the actual scene in the opening phrase
gives a strong sense of reality to that mostalgic sentiment. The
transitoriness of glory, the emptiness of prosperity, all are seen in
the luxuriant summer grass.
[end of passage]
The critic Kooji Kawamoto (Professor of Comparative Literature and
Culture at the University of Tokyo), in "The Poetics of Japanese
Verse: Imagery, Structure, Meter," (University of Tokyo Press, 2000,
English translation) calls the two parts of the haiku referred to by
Ehara above as the "base" and "superposed" sections.
In this haiku, "summer grass" (natsu gusa) would be, in these terms,
the "superposed" section, and "all that remains / of warriors'
dreams" (tsuwamonoodomo ga / yume no ato -- to use Barnhill's
translation) would be the "base" section.
the "superposed" section, and "all that remains / of warriors'
dreams" (tsuwamonoodomo ga / yume no ato -- to use Barnhill's
translation) would be the "base" section.
Kawamoto says, regarding the function of the "superposed" section of
a haiku:
a haiku:
Significance [in a haiku], on the other hand,...is a function of the
superposed section. More exactly, it is the role of the superposed
section to orient the reader to some of the many plausible
significances in the base section.
superposed section. More exactly, it is the role of the superposed
section to orient the reader to some of the many plausible
significances in the base section.
[end of excerpt]
Re: "Feilds of Takedateh"
Takedateh = Takadachi
Here is a reference in a note to this haiku in Ueda's Basho and His Interpreters:
Takadachi was a castle that Fujiwara Hidehira...had built in Hiraizumi for Minamoto Yoshitune.... . ... Basho visited Takadachi on June 29.
[end of excerpt]
So I suspect that the "translator" is trying to say:
fields of Takadachi (castle)
Larry
...................................................
Thanks Larry for your helpful comments.
Takadachi ¹â´Û indeed, how could I miss that, having been there myself ... ?)
Gabi
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