Good evening, Gabi-san,

Not everyone of Issa's 20,000-plus haiku is necessarily a good haiku!
LOL Maybe this is one of those not-so-good one.

As Sakuo-san has pointed out, if we take "kuni" to mean "nation"
or "country," then Issa might mean all Japanese children as opposed
to children in other countries. Issa did have a nationalistic bent.

I found a haiku on the internet by Sookan (1458-1546):

samuku tomo
hi ni na atari so
yukibotoke

though you grow cold,
don't draw close to the fire,
Snow-Buddha

tr. Michael Haldane

I am curious when "yukibotoke" became "yukidaruma," in Japanese, and
why; and why "yukibotoke" was used in the first place. In even
earlier Japanese eras, were snowmen called yet something else?

Larry


> Good morning Larry san,
> well, the snow Buddha, that will keep us busy for a while. Still
> trying to locate a good ethmymological explanation.
>
> If it was the only word of choice for Issa (at his time, there being
> no word like yuki otoko ...) then all the children of Japan suddenly
> turned pious in winter when making their snow contraptions. So his
> province was not much of an exception.
>
> We then have to ask ourselves, why would the Japanese people of old
> have seen a BUDDHA when looking at these snow figures? (By the way,
> for me they look a lot like Jizo sama...).
> Nowadays, we call them Snow DARUMA, but most kids do not know much
> about Daruma san and certainly not that he was a gaijin and they
> certainly have no intention of making a statue of a foreigner ...
> grin ...
>
> Snowmen are also often seen in Zenga pictures, because of their
short
> life period and way of disappearing ...
>
> I wonder if Sakuo can give us more background on the word
yukibotoke ?
>
> GABI
>
> ..............................
>
>
> > But Gabi, if you look at the 21 haiku of Issa's that David has
> > translated which include the phrase "snow Buddha," it seems to me
> > that Issa was well-aware of the double-meaning inherent in
referring
> > to a snowman as a "snow Buddha," and he played with this double-
> > meaning accordingly.
> >
> > Examples, all from Lanoue's translations, and with his comments:
> >
> > torutoshi mo anata makase zo yuki-botoke
> >
> > growing old too
> > I trust in a Buddha
> > of snow
> >
> > The phrase anata makase zo ("trust in the Beyond!") refers
> > specifically to trusting in the saving power of Amida Buddha.
> >
> > Shinji Ogawa paraphrases, "On my growing old too (like anything
else)
> > I trust in you... Snow Buddha." He comments, "Issa's object of
prayer
> > is the Snow Buddha which is nothing but a snowman made by some
kids."
> >
> > ware totemo ogamu ki ni naru yuki-botoke
> >
> > putting me into
> > a praying mood...
> > snow Buddha
> >
> > *
> >
> > To translate the haiku as:
> >
> > my province--
> > the children also make
> > snowmen
> >
> > meaning that the children make snowmen in his province the same as
> > children in other provinces make snowmen is boring even
by 'shasei'
> > standards! LOL
> >
> > I don't think one can ignore the pun on 'Buddha' that Issa plays
with
> > in these mostly light-hearted haiku.
> >
> > Although it wanders far from the brevity of the original, because
the
> > English "snowmen" doesn't have the compression of meaning that the
> > Japanese pun allows; to give a sense in English of Issa's
meaning, I
> > would say (adding the word 'good'):
> >
> > my province--
> > good children there whose snowmen
> > look like Buddha
> >
> > or:
> >
> > my province:
> > even the children make Buddhas
> > out of snow!
> >
> > with appropriate footnoting to explain the pun in the Japanese
name
> > for a snowman.
> >
> > We've only had a fraction of an inch of snow in New York City so
far
> > this winter, even though it's very cold here at the moment, so
there
> > are no snowmen around, Buddha-like or otherwise.
> >
> > There is a "Winter Jam" in Central Park scheduled for this coming
> > weekend, and they are making artificial snow now to accomodate the
> > snowboarding and skiing demonstrations. I may attend for the free
hot
> > chocolate provided by Dunkin Donuts. Yum!
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> > > Dear Isabelle and all,
> > >
> > > I do not think Issa wanted to stress the pious aspect,
certainly not
> > > the one of the children, as I said in my explanations,
> > > it is just the normal Japanese way of saying SNOWMAN.
> > >
> > > I guess he wanted to say that the kids play just the same as
> > >anywhere in Japan.
> > >
> > > GABI
> > > ................
> > >
> > >
> > > > Dear Gabi sensei,
> > > >
> > > > It is fascinating how we return at times to some of our
> > >discussions,
> > > > to cast yet another light on the theme.
> > > >
> > > > You translated the Issa haiku as follows -- and this ties in
with
> > >our
> > > > previous exchanges :
> > > >
> > > > > my province--
> > > > > the children also make
> > > > > snowmen
> > > >
> > > > This would take away the "pious" aspect. Do you think, Gabi,
that
> > > > Issa intended to draw attention to the piety of the children
in
> > >his
> > > > province?
> > > >
> > > > Sakuo sensei, how does it seem to you?
> > > >
> > > > Enjoying the erudition to be found here!
> > > >
> > > > Isabelle.
> > > >
> > > >
>
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > my province--
> > > > > the children also make
> > > > > snow Buddhas
> > > > >
> > > > > waga kuni ya kodomo mo tsukuru yuki-botoke
> > > > >
> > > > > by Issa, 1814
> > > > >
> > > > > Issa's home province is Shinano, present-day Nagano
prefecture.
> > >In
> > > > > this haiku he seems proud of his pious land; even the
children
> > >make
> > > > > snow Buddhas.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tr. David Lanoue, http://cat.xula.edu/issa/
> > > >
> > > > .....................
> > > >
> > > > yuki botoke, the snow buddha, is in fact just the Japanese
name
> > >for a
> > > > snowman. Nowadays, it is called yuki daruma
> > > >
> > > > more is here
> > > > http://worldkigodatabase.blogspot.com/2006/07/snowman-
> > >yukidaruma.html
> > > >
> > > > I just learned from Zhanna that in Russian, this would be a
snow
> > >woman !
> > > >
> > > > We have yuki onna, Snow Woman, in the Japanese legends too.
> > > >
> > > > I would re-write the Issa haiku maybe to read
> > > >
> > > > > my province--
> > > > > the children also make
> > > > > snowmen
> > > >
> > > > Long live worldwide haiku !
> > > > GABI
> > > > http://worldkigodatabase.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
>