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#2259 From: Scott Miller <scott@...>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 2:39 am
Subject: Re: t2-135 RX sensitivity
n1vg
Send Email Send Email
 
Squelch shouldn't affect it at all.  If you connect and use the INFO
command, does it show a higher number for FCS than RX?  That'll tell you
if it's getting a lot of mangled packets.

Also, are you watching the console to see what's received, or just
listening to the digipeated traffic?  Could be a configuration problem
with the digipeating.

It *should* have at least the sensitivity of a TAPR TNC2 class TNC.
They're all tested in an actual DR-135T before shipping, but only with a
fairly small set of sample packets.

Scott

radar wrote:
>
>
> Is there any way to make the t2-135 RX more sensitive when
> digipeating? I have the squelch level set at 01, and it does not
> decode most of the stuff coming in. It only decodes high signals.
> Any ideas from anyone? Thanks for the help from all...
>
> Keri
> KB0YNA
> Mesa County S.A.R.C.
> Mesa County RACES DRO
> Mesa County Skywarn
>
>

#2260 From: Scott Miller <scott@...>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 3:14 am
Subject: Re: Problems decoding T2 transmissions
n1vg
Send Email Send Email
 
Which packets does it not decode?  There *is* some difference in the
timing for some types - telemetry and position packets, for example, get
composed on the fly, and if I do it wrong it can introduce too much
error in the bit timing.  Digipeated packets and KISS packets, among
others, are transmitted straight from a buffer and should have perfect
timing.

If it's only status or position packets that don't show up, it'd be
useful to have your exact configuration to see if I can track down any
timing errors your configuration might have revealed.

Scott

gdw wrote:
>
>
> Weird problem here with my new T2 digi. I see it transmitting as
> expected (and the rx side is great) but my D700 does not decode it. And
> here is the weird part, if I set the D700's path to the call of my digi,
> I receive and decode the packet just fine. Per my service monitor my
> average deviation is 3.2 Khz (calibrate alt). I am running it in kiss
> mode with Javaprssrvr.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Gale
> KC4PL
>
>

#2261 From: Scott Miller <scott@...>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 3:59 am
Subject: Re: Re: Availability of Tracker2 model OT2m
n1vg
Send Email Send Email
 
I use Tracker2 to refer to the device independent of the form factor.
The T2-135 is a Tracker2, and the OT2m is a Tracker2.  The OT2m model
designation just follows the original OpenTracker naming convention,
where the final lower-case letter indicates the case style.  The 'm'
case is the custom steel case made by Ten-Tec, 'x' is a Pactec CNS-0101.
   The OT1+ shows up in some drawings as OTCr, where 'r' is the Pactec
CNS-0404 case.  I haven't really used the C designation (it still shows
up in the TOCALL) publicly and just went with + instead.

T2-135 is just the first thing that came to mind for that particular
version when I created the new schematic.

I probably ought to switch to just plain numbers, as I'm clearly not
very good at thinking up names for these things!  =]

Scott

P. Suryono Adisoemarta wrote:
>
>
> Is OT2m the new name of Tracker2?
>
> Use the same otwinconfig program to configure either T2-135 or the T2
>
> 73 de Paulus - N5SNN / YD0NXX
>
> Martin Storli - LA8OKA wrote:
>  > Next week would be great!
>  > I'm in NYC next week, so if I'm lucky the Tracker2 will be there
>  > waiting for me when i get back to Norway.
>  > Looking forward to figure out what I have bought, hi!
>  > (Since the manual isn't ready yet.)
>  > I do have read the T2-135 manual, and I assume that there are great
>  > simularities.
>  > The T2-135 mentions a configuration program, but I didn't found it on
>  > the Opentracker website Download section, nor the tracker2 group, I'm
>  > I blind or have looked at the wrong places?
>  >
>  >
>  > *LA8OKA Martin Storli*
>  > Oslo, Norway
>
>

#2262 From: "Wes Johnston, AI4PX" <wes@...>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 11:12 am
Subject: Re: Problems decoding T2 transmissions
ai4px
Send Email Send Email
 
Last night we found an issue with KISS mode on port a and not port b.  Turning on port b allowed packets sent to wide1-1 and wide2-1 to be digipeated.  Prior to that, only packets sent to kc4pl would be digipeated.... weird.
 
I'm running a kpc3 here at my place, the T2 is on the shelf waiting to be hooked to a portable GPS tracker.
 
What I have noticed is that I see to be much less likely to decode packets digi'ed by the T2 than packets that were digi'ed by kc4pl's other TNC a tnc-x.  As I mobile around town and transmit with my kenwood, I see a full scale return on my packets, but don't decode them in QTH's that I used to get digipeated.  Typically, I stand a better chance of decoding if I'm sitting still, but that isn't always true.  The T2 seems to hear me (mobile) just fine.
 
I've listened to the packets from the T2 and they have a high timbre and gale says he saw the high tone having greater deviation than the low tone on his service monitor... and I'm also hearing a fair number of flags in the start of the packet.  My home station will decode his T2 with a TX delay of 120ms, but he upped it to 150ms.  This has me really kinda stumped.
 
Wes

 
On 10/1/07, Scott Miller <scott@...> wrote:

Which packets does it not decode? There *is* some difference in the
timing for some types - telemetry and position packets, for example, get
composed on the fly, and if I do it wrong it can introduce too much
error in the bit timing. Digipeated packets and KISS packets, among
others, are transmitted straight from a buffer and should have perfect
timing.

If it's only status or position packets that don't show up, it'd be
useful to have your exact configuration to see if I can track down any
timing errors your configuration might have revealed.

Scott

gdw wrote:
>
>
> Weird problem here with my new T2 digi. I see it transmitting as
> expected (and the rx side is great) but my D700 does not decode it. And
> here is the weird part, if I set the D700's path to the call of my digi,
> I receive and decode the packet just fine. Per my service monitor my
> average deviation is 3.2 Khz (calibrate alt). I am running it in kiss
> mode with Javaprssrvr.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Gale
> KC4PL
>
>




--
In theory there is no difference between practice and theory.

#2263 From: Jon <c0j_1999@...>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 11:39 am
Subject: OT2/Digi
c0j
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Scott,

Just a reminder, I was asking you previously about
adding a feature to allow  a Digipeater multiple
Beacon texts, to allow for advertsing co-sited Voice
Repeaters etc etc.

Regards
de John
EI7IG


       ___________________________________________________________
Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit Yahoo! For Good 
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/environment.html

#2264 From: "James Ewen" <ve6srv@...>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 2:37 pm
Subject: Re: OT2/Digi
james_ewen
Send Email Send Email
 
On 10/2/07, Jon <c0j_1999@...> wrote:

> Just a reminder, I was asking you previously about
> adding a feature to allow  a Digipeater multiple
> Beacon texts, to allow for advertsing co-sited Voice
> Repeaters etc etc.

That would be a good thing...

Also having multiple outgoing path assignments would be nice as well.
Similar to the LTP statements in the KPC-3. This would allow one to
configure for proportional pathing.

James
VE6SRV

#2265 From: mark.rice@...
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 8:40 pm
Subject: OT2m temperature report way off...
ricer3dad
Send Email Send Email
 
With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to
90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range...
From 16C to a maximum of 19C (60.8 - 66.2 F).  It reports the 16 when
it's cooler (70's F) and reports 19 when it's hot (90+ F).

Is there an adjustment or bias that I need to enter in the
configuration?

- Mark
N4CMB-11

#2266 From: Scott Miller <scott@...>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 9:28 pm
Subject: Re: OT2m temperature report way off...
n1vg
Send Email Send Email
 
The only adjustment is a single-point offset.  The response is pretty
linear, and I've tested it down to -100 F and up to at least 120 F.

Where is it actually located?  Is the sensor still on the board, or do
you have it remoted?

Scott

mark.rice@... wrote:
>
>
>
> With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to
> 90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range...
>  >From 16C to a maximum of 19C (60.8 - 66.2 F). It reports the 16 when
> it's cooler (70's F) and reports 19 when it's hot (90+ F).
>
> Is there an adjustment or bias that I need to enter in the
> configuration?
>
> - Mark
> N4CMB-11
>
>

#2267 From: mark.rice@...
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 9:57 pm
Subject: RE: OT2m temperature report way off...
ricer3dad
Send Email Send Email
 
The OT2m is un-modified...  I have the unit in my truck (under the
seat).  It's not something I'll reference as an accurate source for air
temp, but the temp readings are way off.  I just wondered if there was a
coefficient change that it needed somehow.

- Mark
N4CMB-11

-----Original Message-----
From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Scott Miller
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 4:29 PM
To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...

The only adjustment is a single-point offset.  The response is pretty
linear, and I've tested it down to -100 F and up to at least 120 F.

Where is it actually located?  Is the sensor still on the board, or do
you have it remoted?

Scott

mark.rice@... wrote:
>
>
>
> With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to
> 90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range...
>  >From 16C to a maximum of 19C (60.8 - 66.2 F). It reports the 16 when

> it's cooler (70's F) and reports 19 when it's hot (90+ F).
>
> Is there an adjustment or bias that I need to enter in the
> configuration?
>
> - Mark
> N4CMB-11
>
>




Yahoo! Groups Links

#2268 From: Scott Miller <scott@...>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 10:07 pm
Subject: Re: OT2m temperature report way off...
n1vg
Send Email Send Email
 
No, shouldn't need adjusting.  You can spray it with some component
cooler spray to see if it's actually working right.

It's possible that it's just reading low (if the offset hasn't been set
properly) and that it's always rather warm due to lack of air
circulation in the case.  The OT2m case is really not an idea place for
   a sensor.

Scott

mark.rice@... wrote:
>
>
> The OT2m is un-modified... I have the unit in my truck (under the
> seat). It's not something I'll reference as an accurate source for air
> temp, but the temp readings are way off. I just wondered if there was a
> coefficient change that it needed somehow.
>
> - Mark
> N4CMB-11
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tracker2%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tracker2%40yahoogroups.com>] On
> Behalf Of Scott Miller
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 4:29 PM
> To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:tracker2%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...
>
> The only adjustment is a single-point offset. The response is pretty
> linear, and I've tested it down to -100 F and up to at least 120 F.
>
> Where is it actually located? Is the sensor still on the board, or do
> you have it remoted?
>
> Scott
>
> mark.rice@... <mailto:mark.rice%40L-3com.com> wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > With temperatures in the local area (Texas) varying from 70 degrees to
>  > 90+ (F), the OT2m seems to report only a narrow and incorrect range...
>  > >From 16C to a maximum of 19C (60.8 - 66.2 F). It reports the 16 when
>
>  > it's cooler (70's F) and reports 19 when it's hot (90+ F).
>  >
>  > Is there an adjustment or bias that I need to enter in the
>  > configuration?
>  >
>  > - Mark
>  > N4CMB-11
>  >
>  >
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>

#2269 From: "James Ewen" <ve6srv@...>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 10:08 pm
Subject: Re: OT2m temperature report way off...
james_ewen
Send Email Send Email
 
Just out of curiosity Mark, what are your SmartBeacon settings?

You occasionally pump out 2 packets within 4 seconds of each other.

James
VE6SRV

#2270 From: mark.rice@...
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 10:12 pm
Subject: RE: OT2m temperature report way off...
ricer3dad
Send Email Send Email
 
The OT2m is at home right now. (I rode the motorcycle to work...)

I'd have to connect it up to the computer and see what the config file
shows.

The 2 packet transmit happens (I think) when I'm negotiating a turn.

- Mark
N4CMB-11 (OT2m)
N4CMB-10 (TT3+ or OT1+)

-----Original Message-----
From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of James Ewen
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 5:09 PM
To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...

Just out of curiosity Mark, what are your SmartBeacon settings?

You occasionally pump out 2 packets within 4 seconds of each other.

James
VE6SRV



Yahoo! Groups Links

#2271 From: "James Ewen" <ve6srv@...>
Date: Tue Oct 2, 2007 10:27 pm
Subject: Re: OT2m temperature report way off...
james_ewen
Send Email Send Email
 
On 10/2/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

> The OT2m is at home right now. (I rode the motorcycle to work...)

I can wait...

> I'd have to connect it up to the computer and see what the config file
> shows.

Have you saved your config file? If so, you can pull that up and read
the SmartBeacon parameters without having to pull the unit out of the
truck, or take a laptop out to the truck.

> The 2 packet transmit happens (I think) when I'm negotiating a turn.

Yup, which is why I am interested in knowing what you have set for
SmartBeacon parameters.

Bob Bruninga is dead set against SmartBeaconing because he feels that
SmartBeacon enabled trackers cause extra QRM. In fact the SmartBeacon
routine was designed for the exact opposite reason. However it is
possible to set up the parameters to cause too many packets to be
sent, just as a timed unit can be set up to beacon far too often.

My suspicion is that your minimum turn time is set far too low.  This
allows the unit to beacon a couple times as you turn a corner, which
is not necessary. The CornerPegging routine is designed to catch the
corners and report them, but it can attempt to send reports multiple
times in sharp turns. The minimum turn time parameter is included to
make sure that this doesn't happen.

If you show us the parameters you have programmed, I can offer some
suggestions on how you might optimize the settings to keep this from
happening.

James
VE6SRV

#2272 From: Steven Palm <n9yty@...>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 12:05 am
Subject: Re: Availability of Tracker2 model OT2m
n9yty
Send Email Send Email
 
On Sep 25, 2007, at 6:32 PM, Scott Miller wrote:
> FedEx says they'll be here on Thursday.  Which figures... I leave for
> DCC (3000 miles away) early Thursday morning.
>
> I have only a limited stock of enclosures at the moment, so they might
> sell out again quickly.  Ten-Tec is starting another batch and they
> should be done by the end of next month.

   So, are these considered "production" now and out of beta?  I'm
confused because the product page says that regular production is
scheduled to begin in August... No year, so I don't know if it's just
not been updated or if plans for for next year. :)

   I've been waiting for this to go production for a while now and sort
of stopped looking for a while, so I'm just back trying to figure out
if they are "golden" or not.

   Thanks,

   Steve

#2273 From: Scott Miller <scott@...>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 12:22 am
Subject: Re: Availability of Tracker2 model OT2m
n1vg
Send Email Send Email
 
They're in production.  I got the first 100 in, though I won't have
enough enclosures for them all until the end of the month.  The manual
is still preliminary (with an update due to be posted tonight) and at
the moment I'm designing the sticker that'll go on the bottom with the
power specs, model number, and pinouts - but that's not exactly a
critical component.

Once all of that stuff is done, I'll work on getting the marketing
information updated.

Scott


> So, are these considered "production" now and out of beta? I'm
> confused because the product page says that regular production is
> scheduled to begin in August... No year, so I don't know if it's just
> not been updated or if plans for for next year. :)
>
> I've been waiting for this to go production for a while now and sort
> of stopped looking for a while, so I'm just back trying to figure out
> if they are "golden" or not.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve

#2274 From: mark.rice@...
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 2:51 pm
Subject: RE: OT2m temperature report way off...
ricer3dad
Send Email Send Email
 
Hey James, thanks for helping me with these settings.  When I got home
last night a friend of mine wanted my help putting up a 2meter antenna
on his 60-foot tower.  He wants to have an i-gate in an area that's been
a dead spot for aprs... East of Greenville, Tx. looking eastward on I-30
toward Texarkana.  So I was busy helping him into the late hours.

Anyway, this morning I got the config info on my OT2m that is used in my
call, N4CMB-11:

At speeds between 0 and 40MPH
Use transmit rate from 300 to 120 Sec
Transmit when turning more than 24 degrees
But not more than once every 3 seconds


Granted, those setting need some refinement.

And that reminds me, I need to contact K5BNI-1 about his settings too.
(If you look at the aprs map, you'll see what I mean...)

- Mark
N4CMB-11

_______________
Bob Bruninga is dead set against SmartBeaconing because he feels that
SmartBeacon enabled trackers cause extra QRM. In fact the SmartBeacon
routine was designed for the exact opposite reason. However it is
possible to set up the parameters to cause too many packets to be sent,
just as a timed unit can be set up to beacon far too often.

My suspicion is that your minimum turn time is set far too low.  This
allows the unit to beacon a couple times as you turn a corner, which is
not necessary. The CornerPegging routine is designed to catch the
corners and report them, but it can attempt to send reports multiple
times in sharp turns. The minimum turn time parameter is included to
make sure that this doesn't happen.

If you show us the parameters you have programmed, I can offer some
suggestions on how you might optimize the settings to keep this from
happening.

James
VE6SRV



Yahoo! Groups Links

#2275 From: "James Ewen" <ve6srv@...>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 4:23 pm
Subject: Re: OT2m temperature report way off...
james_ewen
Send Email Send Email
 
On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

> At speeds between 0 and 40 MPH
> Use transmit rate from 300 to 120 Sec
> Transmit when turning more than 24 degrees
> But not more than once every 3 seconds

Okay, let's look at this to see what's happening.

First the speed section. Generally you will want to have your low
speed threshold set up a little above zero. Before SA was turned off,
it was necessary. We usually have the low end set around 5 mph.
Really, when you are moving that slow, you will be kicking out packets
due to turns more than distance.

Your high end speed is lower than usual, but it is valid. Normally
this is set at top highway speed, but there's no hard fast rule on
that. Any time you are traveling at or above the high speed setting,
you will be beaconing at the high speed rate.

Now, the rate settings... You are asking the unit to beacon every 5
minutes when it is sitting still. Do you need to tell everyone that
your vehicle is parked and doing nothing every 5 minutes? The general
recommendation is to set your low speed rate to 30 minutes. That's
1800 seconds. This keeps your position updated on most screens,
without causing excessive QRM on the channel.  Your fast rate has you
reporting every 2 minutes when you are travelling 40 MPH or better.
This is a reasonable rate. The general baseline is 3 minutes, but 2 is
okay. It depends on the network load in your area. If there are a lot
of stations vying for airtime, you might want to slow the rate down to
make room for everyone. That's also why you would want to have a slow
rate when stopped, as it allows those who are actually doing something
active more room to play.

Your minimum turn angle is good. This value is the base for the
CornerPegging routine, when you are traveling slow, the turn angle
required to force a beacon is much larger, based on speed/slope (a
value Scott has hard coded in the OT line). This is designed so that
you don't beacon for minor course deviations at slow speeds (lane
changes) but will catch significant corners on the highway.

The real source of those rapid beacons is the very small minimum turn
time you have set. If you are travelling at 5 mph for example, and
turn a 90 degree corner, you will probably beacon 2 times. This is
because at that speed, you probably need something like 40 degrees to
make CornerPegging want to report your course change. In a 90 degree
corner, you'll find CornerPegging firing off two beacons. The minimum
turn time is designed to keep that from happening. If you set the
minimum turn time to 30 seconds, you will definitely be around that
corner (unless traffic is really bad). This also makes sure you don't
send a flurry of beacons when winding your way through a parking lot,
or getting dizzy in a traffic circle.

So, in summary, I would suggest setting your minimum speed a little
higher, your slow rate longer, and your minimum turn time longer.

You need to strike a compromise between reporting rates and sharing
the channel with others. SmartBeaconing was designed to do just that,
but you can also set it up to be a network hog. Setting a static
beacon rate in your D700 of 1 minute and leaving it on all day does
the same, but Bob doesn't see it that way. At least the D710 drops
from it's 1 minute rate using a decay algorithm now, back down to 32
minutes when stationary.

Hope that helps, and makes sense to you.

James
VE6SRV

#2276 From: mark.rice@...
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 5:08 pm
Subject: RE: OT2m temperature report way off...
ricer3dad
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks James.  I'd like to implement some of your comments.

Our town of 25,000 people has very little aprs activity, but Dallas
isn't far away (45 miles) so I need to be careful with the settings as
it can impact metro rf (which is why I don't use Wide3 out here).

The slow speed I can change to 5 or even 10mph.  If I'm at 10 or below,
I'm either coming to a traffic stop or in a parking lot.  If it's the
latter, I don't leave my aprs on.  If it's the former, my speed will
resume in less than 2 minutes.  The speed of 40mph was selected because
of the mostly small-town driving that I do, but I might increase that.

Regarding the time setting, I will bump that up a bit as well.  It can't
hurt and it very like will help with rf sharing.

Thanks again, James.  I'm grateful for your assistance.

- Mark
N4CMB-11



-----Original Message-----
From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of James Ewen
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 11:24 AM
To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...

On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

> At speeds between 0 and 40 MPH
> Use transmit rate from 300 to 120 Sec
> Transmit when turning more than 24 degrees But not more than once
> every 3 seconds

Okay, let's look at this to see what's happening.

First the speed section. Generally you will want to have your low speed
threshold set up a little above zero. Before SA was turned off, it was
necessary. We usually have the low end set around 5 mph.
Really, when you are moving that slow, you will be kicking out packets
due to turns more than distance.

Your high end speed is lower than usual, but it is valid. Normally this
is set at top highway speed, but there's no hard fast rule on that. Any
time you are traveling at or above the high speed setting, you will be
beaconing at the high speed rate.

Now, the rate settings... You are asking the unit to beacon every 5
minutes when it is sitting still. Do you need to tell everyone that your
vehicle is parked and doing nothing every 5 minutes? The general
recommendation is to set your low speed rate to 30 minutes. That's 1800
seconds. This keeps your position updated on most screens, without
causing excessive QRM on the channel.  Your fast rate has you reporting
every 2 minutes when you are travelling 40 MPH or better.
This is a reasonable rate. The general baseline is 3 minutes, but 2 is
okay. It depends on the network load in your area. If there are a lot of
stations vying for airtime, you might want to slow the rate down to make
room for everyone. That's also why you would want to have a slow rate
when stopped, as it allows those who are actually doing something active
more room to play.

Your minimum turn angle is good. This value is the base for the
CornerPegging routine, when you are traveling slow, the turn angle
required to force a beacon is much larger, based on speed/slope (a value
Scott has hard coded in the OT line). This is designed so that you don't
beacon for minor course deviations at slow speeds (lane
changes) but will catch significant corners on the highway.

The real source of those rapid beacons is the very small minimum turn
time you have set. If you are travelling at 5 mph for example, and turn
a 90 degree corner, you will probably beacon 2 times. This is because at
that speed, you probably need something like 40 degrees to make
CornerPegging want to report your course change. In a 90 degree corner,
you'll find CornerPegging firing off two beacons. The minimum turn time
is designed to keep that from happening. If you set the minimum turn
time to 30 seconds, you will definitely be around that corner (unless
traffic is really bad). This also makes sure you don't send a flurry of
beacons when winding your way through a parking lot, or getting dizzy in
a traffic circle.

So, in summary, I would suggest setting your minimum speed a little
higher, your slow rate longer, and your minimum turn time longer.

You need to strike a compromise between reporting rates and sharing the
channel with others. SmartBeaconing was designed to do just that, but
you can also set it up to be a network hog. Setting a static beacon rate
in your D700 of 1 minute and leaving it on all day does the same, but
Bob doesn't see it that way. At least the D710 drops from it's 1 minute
rate using a decay algorithm now, back down to 32 minutes when
stationary.

Hope that helps, and makes sense to you.

James
VE6SRV



Yahoo! Groups Links

#2277 From: "James Ewen" <ve6srv@...>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 8:50 pm
Subject: Re: OT2m temperature report way off...
james_ewen
Send Email Send Email
 
On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

> Our town of 25,000 people has very little aprs activity, but Dallas
> isn't far away (45 miles) so I need to be careful with the settings as
> it can impact metro rf (which is why I don't use Wide3 out here).

The impact your small town activity has on Dallas is minimal, but the
impact Dallas can have on your small town by using long paths can be
very harmful.

> The slow speed I can change to 5 or even 10mph.  If I'm at 10 or below,
> I'm either coming to a traffic stop or in a parking lot.  If it's the
> latter, I don't leave my aprs on.  If it's the former, my speed will
> resume in less than 2 minutes.  The speed of 40mph was selected because
> of the mostly small-town driving that I do, but I might increase that.

Yup, your reasoning makes sense. The idea of having a slow rate at low
speeds is so that people can leave their trackers on, and not cause
problems doing so. Some people leave them on 24/7, and when they are
beaconing every 3 minutes, it wastes a lot of network airtime with
static information.

> Regarding the time setting, I will bump that up a bit as well.  It can't
> hurt and it very like will help with rf sharing.

Increase that min turn time, and you'll be a very polite APRS users.
Now, K5BNI-1 on the other hand is a little crazy. He's sending beacons
every 10 seconds. I don't think it's SmartBeaconing, but rather just a
static time setting. If you know him well, you have a good chance of
showing him the reasoning behind using SmartBeaconing. If you don't
know him, you really have to watch how you approach him to ask for a
change in settings. I've had people give me explicit instructions on
where to go, and how to get there when trying to make contact about
changing parameters.

James
VE6SRV

#2278 From: Dan <dan.zubey@...>
Date: Wed Oct 3, 2007 9:39 pm
Subject: Re: OT2m temperature report way off...
mynetdoc
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I went through a similar thought process.

In my case, I am trying to prototype how we would track several red cross feeding vehicles in a county the size of several small states.

I came up with the idea that I'm not really trying to figure out their route, I'm more concerned about where they are within a few miles. That meant that packets can be sent less often, and only when the position has changed more than a few miles (which works out to about 20 minutes or so.)

In any case, I can poll the tracker to find out where it is at any one time now :)

-Dan N7NMD


On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... <mark.rice@...> wrote:

Thanks James. I'd like to implement some of your comments.

Our town of 25,000 people has very little aprs activity, but Dallas
isn't far away (45 miles) so I need to be careful with the settings as
it can impact metro rf (which is why I don't use Wide3 out here).

The slow speed I can change to 5 or even 10mph. If I'm at 10 or below,
I'm either coming to a traffic stop or in a parking lot. If it's the
latter, I don't leave my aprs on. If it's the former, my speed will
resume in less than 2 minutes. The speed of 40mph was selected because
of the mostly small-town driving that I do, but I might increase that.

Regarding the time setting, I will bump that up a bit as well. It can't
hurt and it very like will help with rf sharing.

Thanks again, James. I'm grateful for your assistance.

- Mark
N4CMB-11

-----Original Message-----
From: tracker2@yahoogroups.com [mailto: tracker2@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of James Ewen
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 11:24 AM
To: tracker2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [tracker2] OT2m temperature report way off...

On 10/3/07, mark.rice@... < mark.rice@...> wrote:

> At speeds between 0 and 40 MPH
> Use transmit rate from 300 to 120 Sec
> Transmit when turning more than 24 degrees But not more than once
> every 3 seconds

Okay, let's look at this to see what's happening.

First the speed section. Generally you will want to have your low speed
threshold set up a little above zero. Before SA was turned off, it was
necessary. We usually have the low end set around 5 mph.
Really, when you are moving that slow, you will be kicking out packets
due to turns more than distance.

Your high end speed is lower than usual, but it is valid. Normally this
is set at top highway speed, but there's no hard fast rule on that. Any
time you are traveling at or above the high speed setting, you will be
beaconing at the high speed rate.

Now, the rate settings... You are asking the unit to beacon every 5
minutes when it is sitting still. Do you need to tell everyone that your
vehicle is parked and doing nothing every 5 minutes? The general
recommendation is to set your low speed rate to 30 minutes. That's 1800
seconds. This keeps your position updated on most screens, without
causing excessive QRM on the channel. Your fast rate has you reporting
every 2 minutes when you are travelling 40 MPH or better.
This is a reasonable rate. The general baseline is 3 minutes, but 2 is
okay. It depends on the network load in your area. If there are a lot of
stations vying for airtime, you might want to slow the rate down to make
room for everyone. That's also why you would want to have a slow rate
when stopped, as it allows those who are actually doing something active
more room to play.

Your minimum turn angle is good. This value is the base for the
CornerPegging routine, when you are traveling slow, the turn angle
required to force a beacon is much larger, based on speed/slope (a value
Scott has hard coded in the OT line). This is designed so that you don't
beacon for minor course deviations at slow speeds (lane
changes) but will catch significant corners on the highway.

The real source of those rapid beacons is the very small minimum turn
time you have set. If you are travelling at 5 mph for example, and turn
a 90 degree corner, you will probably beacon 2 times. This is because at
that speed, you probably need something like 40 degrees to make
CornerPegging want to report your course change. In a 90 degree corner,
you'll find CornerPegging firing off two beacons. The minimum turn time
is designed to keep that from happening. If you set the minimum turn
time to 30 seconds, you will definitely be around that corner (unless
traffic is really bad). This also makes sure you don't send a flurry of
beacons when winding your way through a parking lot, or getting dizzy in
a traffic circle.

So, in summary, I would suggest setting your minimum speed a little
higher, your slow rate longer, and your minimum turn time longer.

You need to strike a compromise between reporting rates and sharing the
channel with others. SmartBeaconing was designed to do just that, but
you can also set it up to be a network hog. Setting a static beacon rate
in your D700 of 1 minute and leaving it on all day does the same, but
Bob doesn't see it that way. At least the D710 drops from it's 1 minute
rate using a decay algorithm now, back down to 32 minutes when
stationary.

Hope that helps, and makes sense to you.

James
VE6SRV

Yahoo! Groups Links



#2279 From: Scott Miller <scott@...>
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 5:02 am
Subject: Manual updated
n1vg
Send Email Send Email
 
I've posted a preliminary copy of the T2 manual at
http://www.argentdata.com/tracker2.  It doesn't cover the configuration
program yet, and I may make that a separate manual since it's shared
with the OpenTracker.

Scott

#2280 From: "Keith VE7GDH" <ve7gdh@...>
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 9:46 am
Subject: Re: OT2m temperature report way off...
ve7gdh
Send Email Send Email
 
James VE6SRV wrote...

> Bob Bruninga is dead set against SmartBeaconing because he feels that
> SmartBeacon enabled trackers cause extra QRM.

You must be mistaken there - hi! He just said over on the APRS SIG...

> I have no problem with smart beaconing if somehow it can be set
> to AVERAGE no more than about one packet per minute or less like
> everyone else...

Of course, we all know that SmartBeaconing does a lot more than allow you to
have it beacon every minute. It is precisely to prevent something like that
happening that SmartBeaconing exists.

Also, see a message from Steve KA9MVA from nearly a year ago...
www.tapr.org/pipermail/aprssig/2006-November/016924.html
and a reply from Bob WB4APR...
www.tapr.org/pipermail/aprssig/2006-November/016925.html
where he said "I agree completely with all you said."

I also suggested that if Kenwood has designed the D710 to allow updates
(they released a couple of minor updates the other day) then they could also
do an update to add SmartBeaconing. I could have missed it, but I don't
think I have seen a reply on that yet.

73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
--
"I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"

#2281 From: "Stan Leeds, KC7EHJ" <srkleeds@...>
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 10:51 am
Subject: Re: Manual updated
kc7ehj
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Folks will need to remove the period at the end of the link to make it work.

http://argentdata.com/tracker2

Trying to avoid "Link doesn't work" comments and 73,
Stan/KC7EHJ

Scott Miller wrote:
>
>
> I've posted a preliminary copy of the T2 manual at
> http://www.argentdata.com/tracker2.
> <http://www.argentdata.com/tracker2.> It doesn't cover the configuration
> program yet, and I may make that a separate manual since it's shared
> with the OpenTracker.
>
> Scott

#2282 From: "Stephen - K1LNX" <k1lnx@...>
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 10:59 am
Subject: Re: Manual updated
sbrown6079
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Looking good Scott!

One thing that I think needs to be added is a section on remote control. I had a misunderstanding of how it was to work initially, I was thinking it was similar in the way the KPC-3's are setup and as such was trying to access it while in connected mode from another radio/tnc, it didn't work of course :)

I went back through the group message archives to find out what exactly you had to do for remote commands and tried CMD INFO as an example, it didn't work for whatever reason, but I'll save that for another thread. I hope to do some more testing/playing this weekend and getting this unit ready to go into my car.

73
Stephen
K1LNX


On 10/4/07, Scott Miller <scott@...> wrote:

I've posted a preliminary copy of the T2 manual at
http://www.argentdata.com/tracker2. It doesn't cover the configuration
program yet, and I may make that a separate manual since it's shared
with the OpenTracker.

Scott




--
Stephen Brown - ARS K1LNX
Johnson City, TN EM86uh
"I use FOSS daily to keep my boxen clean!!!"

#2283 From: "James Ewen" <ve6srv@...>
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 2:20 pm
Subject: Re: OT2m temperature report way off...
james_ewen
Send Email Send Email
 
On 10/4/07, Keith VE7GDH <ve7gdh@...> wrote:

> > I have no problem with smart beaconing if somehow it can be set
> > to AVERAGE no more than about one packet per minute or less like
> > everyone else...

That just goes to show that he still hasn't even looked at the concept
of SmartBeaconing. If he did, he would know that it can easily do just
that.

I can make the same uninformed statement about every other APRS
application out there. The Kenwood units have the capability to set
them up to beacon every 12 seconds. I don't know of any lower limits
in any software APRS program. I can set UI-View up to beacon every
second. I bet I can set APRSdos to beacon at less than a 1 minute
interval.

Because an implementation can be configured at a rate of less than one
packet per minute does not mean that it will AVERAGE more than that. I
can run SmartBeaconing configured to beacon once every 10 seconds,
drive for 1 hour, and then park for 6 hours beaconing once per hour.
Does this fulfill Bob's 1 minute average criteria?

> Of course, we all know that SmartBeaconing does a lot more than allow you to
> have it beacon every minute. It is precisely to prevent something like that
> happening that SmartBeaconing exists.

We do indeed, and I sure am glad that developers like Scott take the
time to understand a concept to the point where they add it to their
own hardware.

> I also suggested that if Kenwood has designed the D710 to allow updates
> (they released a couple of minor updates the other day) then they could also
> do an update to add SmartBeaconing. I could have missed it, but I don't
> think I have seen a reply on that yet.

I'm working on that... the bug is in Kenwood's ear if I can believe
the reports from DCC. If Bob is as happy with SmartBeaconing as he
suggests in the messages you point out, then there should be little
reason for not implementing the best network airtime conservation
routine around.

James
VE6SRV

#2284 From: Mark Rice <ricer_dude@...>
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 1:04 am
Subject: "monitor on" question
ricer_dude
Send Email Send Email
 
I hope I'm clear with this question...

When monitor has been turned on (which is default anyway, right?), does the OT2m output serial text that it is digipeating (i.e., messages that the OT2m hasn't originated)?  I don't seem to see it show up on the monitor serial output.  But I see all the other traffic and I see the OT2m beacon text... just not the digipeating traffic.

I have another aprs tnc that is monitoring activity, and saw the OT2m digipeated traffic that way.

Just wondering... (and maybe I've not configured the OT2m correctly).

- Mark


Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more.

#2285 From: Lance Cotton <groups@...>
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 10:34 pm
Subject: Jumper descriptions?
kj5o
Send Email Send Email
 
The new updated manual apparently skips the section where jumper
settings are described.

Can someone give a quick run-down of the OT2m Rev 1.0 jumper settings?

-Lance KJ5O

#2286 From: mark.rice@...
Date: Fri Oct 5, 2007 11:11 pm
Subject: OT2m and UI-View?
ricer3dad
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Has anyone tied their OT2m to UI-View?

With a terminal window in UI-View and using a comms setup of a host type
"None", I can see aprs traffic from the OT2m.  I can issue commands via
that terminal window, and the OT2m reponds.

However, when I try to set up a KISS interface with the OT2m, I get a
stalled UI-View progam and eventually a timeout.  I've modified UI-View
interface command list to "Amode KISS" but I still can't get these two
things to talk together...

Suggestions, thoughts, comments?  I'm not that familiar with UI-View,
and have been looking at some on-line resources for it.  So far, I'm
batting zero...

- Mark
N4CMB-11

#2287 From: "k0yg" <mpatton5280@...>
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 12:11 am
Subject: Re: OT2m and UI-View?
k0yg
Send Email Send Email
 
Mark,

Try using /*AMODE KISS*/ with all the slashes and stars just like you
see them.

Also search this group for "AMODE KISS" for more information.

Mark


--- In tracker2@yahoogroups.com, mark.rice@... wrote:
>
> Has anyone tied their OT2m to UI-View?
>
> With a terminal window in UI-View and using a comms setup of a host
type
> "None", I can see aprs traffic from the OT2m.  I can issue commands
via
> that terminal window, and the OT2m reponds.
>
> However, when I try to set up a KISS interface with the OT2m, I get
a
> stalled UI-View progam and eventually a timeout.  I've modified UI-
View
> interface command list to "Amode KISS" but I still can't get these
two
> things to talk together...
>
> Suggestions, thoughts, comments?  I'm not that familiar with UI-
View,
> and have been looking at some on-line resources for it.  So far, I'm
> batting zero...
>
> - Mark
> N4CMB-11
>

#2288 From: Scott Miller <scott@...>
Date: Sat Oct 6, 2007 1:45 am
Subject: Re: Jumper descriptions?
n1vg
Send Email Send Email
 
Same as the OT1+, with the addition of the EQ jumper for RX tone
equalization.  I need to redo the graphics to match the OT2m silkscreen.

On a related subject, the bottom labels for the OT2m are going to the
printer on Monday.  You can see a proof at http://n1vg.net/label.pdf - I
need to make a correction on the serial pinout, since pin 8 isn't 1-wire
on the OT2m.  I think I'm going to add "4 - Vout" unless someone can
suggest a notation that's more obvious.  Pin 4 can be either regulated 5
volt power out, or it can be connected to the unregulated supply bus.

I'm also planning a sticker for the inside of the lid that'll have the
jumper reference, and anything else I can think of that ought to go there.

Scott

Lance Cotton wrote:
>
>
> The new updated manual apparently skips the section where jumper
> settings are described.
>
> Can someone give a quick run-down of the OT2m Rev 1.0 jumper settings?
>
> -Lance KJ5O
>
>

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