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#16673 From: "Frog Farmer" <frogfrmr@...>
Date: Sun Feb 1, 2009 2:08 am
Subject: RE: changes in trust law
originalfrog...
Send Email Send Email
 
> Anyone have input on whether this bill would be a very bad thing
> regarding trusts and transfers of property?
>
> http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2009/HB0261.html
>
> This bill provides that a conveyance of real property to or from a
> trust shall be deemed to have been made to or from the trustees of the
> trust.
>
> It looks bad in that it seems to bypass the ability to pass property
> along in trust. I know several states have been acting against trusts
> in their ever-expanding goal of sucking up more tax money. I just
> can't quite tell how large an impact this would have.
>
> Any input or talking points against it would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks.

My first thoughts were that I'd have to charge for a full analysis to
put any worries to rest.  I had it beat quickly.  But then later on I
saw this:

"IV. This section does not apply to any trust that, as determined by the
laws of its situs, is an entity capable of holding and conveying title
in its own name."

So, I see this as a wet paper bag put out to see who can fight their way
out of it.  Or maybe it's like a strip of flypaper, just hanging there
waiting for flies who cannot resist landing on it.

Key words were interspersed throughout, virtual "shoes" waiting for some
Cinderella to proclaim that they fit!  Like "grantor".  That's a Big
Clue.  So, is it bad? Yeah, but it has its reasons, like all the fraud
that's been going on.  It will cut that down a bit.  But I can fight my
way out of that wet paper bag so as to protect my own rights and
privacy, no problem.

Regards,

FF

#16674 From: Jake <jake_28079@...>
Date: Sun Feb 1, 2009 1:48 pm
Subject: Re: changes in trust law
jake_28079
Send Email Send Email
 
> Anyone have input on whether this bill would be a very bad thing regarding trusts and transfers of property?
>
> http://www.gencourt .state.nh. us/legislation/ 2009/HB0261. html
>
> This bill provides that a conveyance of real property to or from a trust shall be deemed to have been made to or from the trustees of the trust.
 
<snip>
 
There are several factors involved, but the biggest ones are type of trust & jurisdiction.  There are trusts the state legislature has no jurisdiction over & probably the most famous is the Dartmouth College trust.  The decision is 60 pages long (the trust is included), but I highly recommend reading Trustees of Dartmouth College v. Woodward, 17 U.S. 518 (1819).  Excerpt from the Syllabus:
 
   "The charter granted by the British Crown to the trustees of Dartmouth College, in New Hampshire, in the year 1769, is a contract within the meaning of that clause of the Constitution of the United States, art. 1, s. 10, which declares that no state shall make any law impairing the obligation of contracts.  The charter was not dissolved by the Revolution.
    An act of the State Legislature of New Hampshire altering the charter without the consent of the corporation in a material respect, is an act impairing the obligation of the charter, and is unconstitutional and void."
 
The Biltmore Estate in N.C. is somewhat similar & by contract, neither the state nor the federal gov't. have any jurisdiction over that trust.
 
There are trusts I've managed for years & no state gov't. (including courts) has any jurisdiction over them whatsoever.  And the only way a federal court has jurisdiction is if the trustees have an argument they can't settle between themselves & one brings an action in a federal court (choose your trustees wisely so that won't happen).  But "statutory trusts" (what lawyers usually draw up) are subject to the jurisdiction of state legislatures & courts, which can annul or modify terms & conditions whether you like it or not.
 
Notice 2 points in the Act you gave the link to:
 
   "IV. This section does not apply to any trust that, as determined by the laws of its situs, is an entity capable of holding and conveying title in its own name."
   "V. Nothing contained in this section shall be construed to recognize trusts created under the laws of this state as entities capable of holding or conveying title to real property in their own names."
 
See the difference?  Trusts drawn under the laws of "this state" can't hold or convey title in the trust name, but trusts properly drawn under another situs can.  I've been thru this in both state & federal courts & if the trust is drawn correctly to begin with, neither the state legislature nor the congress can change the terms & conditions of it.
 
Another key issue in the Dartmouth case is "contract" - there is a dissertation in the opinion on what is & what is not a contract.  The rules applied then stand to this day too. 
 
Trusts are often "pigeon holed" into a few basic categories, but there are so many different types you can't do that.  However, in simple terms, it boils down to 2 things - 1) Is this trust a valid contract? and 2) Who has authority/jurisdiction over it?  If the answer to the 1st question is yes & the answer to the 2nd is only the trustees, then you're in fine shape.  If not, then the legislature can modify the trust, or simply dissolve it.
 
~ ~ ~


#16675 From: "Jim Stiner" <jim118@...>
Date: Sun Feb 1, 2009 6:03 pm
Subject: changes in trust law
jimnopks
Send Email Send Email
 
>1) Is this trust a valid contract? and 2) Who has authority/jurisdiction
over it?  If the answer to the 1st question is yes & the answer to the 2nd
is only the trustees, then you're in fine shape.  If not, then the
legislature can modify the trust, or simply dissolve it.

I concer with you Jake.

If you are in possession of a statutory trust, trash it and write and common
law trust
beings they are contracts and not subject to the whims of congress.

Jim

I have a free repost that explains the difference at
www.WriteATrust.com .


   -----Original Message-----
   From: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jake
   Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:49 AM
   To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] changes in trust law


         > Anyone have input on whether this bill would be a very bad thing
regarding trusts and transfers of property?
         >
         > http://www.gencourt .state.nh. us/legislation/ 2009/HB0261. html
         >
         > This bill provides that a conveyance of real property to or from a
trust shall be deemed to have been made to or from the trustees of the
trust.

         <snip>

#16676 From: Jake <jake_28079@...>
Date: Mon Feb 2, 2009 8:42 pm
Subject: Re: Re: More on HJR 192; Got (Lawful) Money?
jake_28079
Send Email Send Email
 
> Here is what I got from the United States Code on money and dollars:

> From the U.S. Code Online via GPO Access
> [wais.access. gpo.gov]
> [Laws in effect as of January 3, 2005]
> [Document not affected by Public Laws enacted between January 3, 2005 and June 7, 2006]
> [CITE: 12USC411]
 
< snip >
 
You can pull that up here too:
(current thru 3 Jan. 2007)
 
Now, do not confuse the federal reserve notes referred to therein with what you've got in your pocket, as the notes referred to in that section are larger & are for transfers between banks only - not for you to spend @ the store.  Unless you've worked in a bank, you've probably never seen one.  Excerpt from that section (emphasis added):
 
   "Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized."
 
~ ~ ~ ~ ~


#16677 From: "The Handyman" <ebobie@...>
Date: Mon Feb 2, 2009 11:55 pm
Subject: Re: Re: More on HJR 192; Got (Lawful) Money?
threehandedman
Send Email Send Email
 
Received second letter from the Judge.  Part of what he said is: " I am certain you are aware that interest rates are at historic lows and that you can probably do better if you actively manage the money than simply allowing it to sit in the Prothonotary's account.  FURTHER, IF YOU FAIL TO ACT THE TIME WILL COME WHEN THE FUNDS CAN ARGUABLY BE TRANSFERRED TO THE STATE, something I am certain you do not want to occur, nor do I.  I encourage you to accept the fact that we are not going to give you gold and that you will have to take greenbacks."
 
Gold was never requested and payment with greenbacks is an interesting fact I have not yet digested.  It just goes to show how ignorant about money our judiciary is.  How will they ever tender greenbacks?  It is just a letter but somehow I hope to use it.  I am thinking.  Any ideas?
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Re: More on HJR 192; Got (Lawful) Money?

What I believe the  Hagar court is saying is that a state, under its power of taxation, cannot force taxes to be  paid with notes under the guise that they are a "legal tender" , as such would be allowing paper to be a tender in payment of a state debt.  In my case the property was sold at public sale, for notes, to a corporation who paid with a check, and the balance left over from the sale ($55,000.00) was tendered back to me by the state  in the form of a check.  My position is that there is no law forcing me to accept a check period.  (No one has countered this premise) I have no checking account and acceptance would be forcing me into the private banking system.  A paper  tender (by the state) violates Art.1, Sec.10 no matter how you look at it. .  Yesterday (after 16 months) the District Judge  sent me a letter, requesting  me to pick up the check from the Clerk as the State Supreme Court denied certiorari.  The state has passed on the payment with a check issue so I am going into the United States District Court under 42 USC 1983 (deprivation of property under color of law) and the just compensation clause.  I realize that there are many pessimistic theorist, gifted with words, on this group who never enter court and have  a untested reason for not doing so, but  the bottom line is property has been taken.  I have not been paid  with public money and a check (private money) is not payment within the meaning of Hagar and Art. 1, Sec. 10.    It is at best payment with a debt, obligation or promise that violates Hagar and undermine Article 1, Section 10.  If I had an employment contract with the state I would be forced to accept their check as contracts, pursuant to Hagar, are within their statutory right to pay by such means.  But the key to this case is an exaction.....exaction.......exaction.  You took my property and cannot pay me with Pesos, Yen or Euros... and you cannot try to pay me with a check or FRNs.  If I'm wrong shoot me down.  I need to see valid counter arguments.  But please use substance and not untested theory.
.


#16678 From: Jake <jake_28079@...>
Date: Tue Feb 3, 2009 2:32 am
Subject: Re: Re: More on HJR 192; Got (Lawful) Money?
jake_28079
Send Email Send Email
 
> Received second letter from the Judge.  Part of what he said is: " I am certain you are aware that interest rates are at historic lows and that you can probably do better if you actively manage the money than simply allowing it to sit in the Prothonotary' s account.  FURTHER, IF YOU FAIL TO ACT THE TIME WILL COME WHEN THE FUNDS CAN ARGUABLY BE TRANSFERRED TO THE STATE, something I am certain you do not want to occur, nor do I.  I encourage you to accept the fact that we are not going to give you gold and that you will have to take greenbacks."
>
> Gold was never requested and payment with greenbacks is an interesting fact I have not yet digested.  It just goes to show how ignorant about money our judiciary is.  How will they ever tender greenbacks?  It is just a letter but somehow I hope to use it.  I am thinking.  Any ideas?
 
I don't know why you'd even want to argue the point as the matter was settled over 70 years ago, after the "Bank Holiday of 1933" - see e.g., U.S. v. Bankers' Trust Co., 294 U.S. 240 (1935):
 
A very long-winded way of saying to people who expected payment in gold, "you're screwed - take what Congress says is 'legal tender' or take nothing."  Excerpts:
 
These cases present the question of the validity of the Joint Resolution of the Congress, of June 5, 1933, with respect to the 'gold clauses' of private contracts for the payment of money. 48 Stat. 112 (31 USCA 462, 463).
 
"This resolution, the text of which is set forth in the margin,1 declares that 'every provision contained in or [294 U.S. 240, 292]   made with respect to any obligation which purports to give the obligee a right to require payment in gold or a particular kind of coin or currency, or in an amount in money of the United States measured thereby' is 'against public policy.' Such provisions in obligations thereafter incurred are prohibited. The resolution provides that 'Every obligation, heretofore or hereafter incurred, whether or not any such provision is contained therein or made with respect thereto, shall be discharged upon payment, dollar for dollar, in any coin or currency which at the time of payment is legal tender for public and private debts.'
 
* * *
 
The devaluation of the dollar placed the domestic economy upon a new basis. In the currency as thus provided, states and municipalities must receive their taxes; railroads, their rates and fares; public utilities, their charges for services. The income out of which they must meet their obligations is determined by the new standard. Yet, according to the contentions before us, while that income is thus controlled by law, their indebtedness on their 'gold bonds' must be met by an amount of currency determined by the former gold standard. Their receipts, in this view, would be fixed on one basis; their interest charges, and the principal of their obligations, on another. It is common knowledge that the bonds issued by these obligors have generally contained gold clauses, and presumably they account for a large part of the outstanding obligations of that sort. It is also common knowledge that a similar situation exists with respect to numerous industrial corporations that have issued their 'gold bonds' and must now receive payments for their products in the existing currency. It requires no acute analysis or profound economic inquiry to disclose the dislocation of the domestic economy which would be caused by such a disparity of conditions in which, it is insisted, those debtors under gold clauses should be required to pay $1.69 [294 U.S. 240, 316]   in currency while respectively receiving their taxes, rates, charges, and prices on the basis of $1 of that currency.
 
We are not concerned with consequences, in the sense that consequences, however serious, may excuse an invasion of constitutional right. We are concerned with the constitutional power of the Congress over the monetary system of the country and its attempted frustration. Exercising that power, the Congress has undertaken to establish a uniform currency, and parity between kinds of currency, and to make that currency, dollar for dollar, legal tender for the payment of debts. In the light of abundant experience, the Congress was entitled to choose such a uniform monetary system, and to reject a dual system, with respect to all obligations within the range of the exercise of its constitutional authority. The contention that these gold clauses are valid contracts and cannot be struck down proceeds upon the assumption that private parties, and states and municipalities, may make and enforce contracts which may limit that authority. Dismissing that untenable assumption, the facts must be faced. We think that it is clearly shown that these clauses interfere with the exertion of the power granted to the Congress, and certainly it is not established that the Congress arbitrarily or capriciously decided that such an interference existed.
 
The judgment and decree, severally under review, are affirmed.
 
~ ~ ~ ~ ~


#16679 From: "The Handyman" <ebobie@...>
Date: Tue Feb 3, 2009 6:42 am
Subject: Re: Re: More on HJR 192; Got (Lawful) Money?
threehandedman
Send Email Send Email
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Jake
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [tips_and_tricks] Re: More on HJR 192; Got (Lawful) Money?

Jake said:
"I don't know why you'd even want to argue the point as the matter was settled over 70 years ago, after the "Bank Holiday of 1933" - see e.g., U.S. v. Bankers' Trust Co., 294 U.S. 240 (1935):"
 
What was settled Jake?
 
 Private contracts...private parties...not exactions! 
 
The Bankers' case starts off with: "These cases present the question of the validity of the Joint Resolution of the Congress, of June 5, 1933, with respect to the 'gold clauses' of private contracts for the payment of money. 48 Stat. 112 (31 USCA 462, 463)."   And goes on to say on page 6  "that this instant case involves contracts between private parties."  U.S. v. Bankers'' Trust Co.  was decided in 1935.   HAGAR v. RECLAMATION DIST. NO. 108, 111 U.S. 701 was decided in  1884 and it is still in effect.  Bankers' did not disturb that Hagar held that acts of Congress making notes a legal tender do not apply to exaction under state law.  My case is not between private parties and there is no contract.  It involves an exaction of property under the color of state law and payment for that exaction.  But payment with legal tender cannot be made pursuant to Hagar.  Compron?  Understand?  Do you see why I want to argue the matter?  The state has to pay me something.  What can they use as payment in an exaction pursuant to Hagar?  Shalom
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
A very long-winded way of saying to people who expected payment in gold, "you're screwed - take what Congress says is 'legal tender' or take nothing."  Excerpts:
 
 
"
 
 


#16680 From: "Frog Farmer" <frogfrmr@...>
Date: Tue Feb 3, 2009 4:08 pm
Subject: RE: Re: More on HJR 192; Got (Lawful) Money?
originalfrog...
Send Email Send Email
 
Handyman wrote:

> Received second letter from the Judge.

Hmmmm...mail fraud? Extortion by wire?  You be the judge!!

>  Part of what he said is: " I
> am certain you are aware that interest rates are at historic lows

For what?  Gold or silver?  Or T-bills?  Toxic mind money?

> that you can probably do better

Define "do better".  I want to be paid.  I didn't know there was any
"better" or "worse" to getting paid.

> if you actively manage the money than
> simply allowing it to sit in the Prothonotary's account.

Now "money" "sits" in accounts.  Tell that to all those who "lost" their
imaginary "funds" last year!  I thought accounts simply made record of
money. Shows how much I know.  Since my money sits with me, I guess I
have none in any accounts!  Ridiculous!

> FURTHER, IF
> YOU FAIL TO ACT THE TIME WILL COME WHEN THE FUNDS CAN ARGUABLY BE
> TRANSFERRED TO THE STATE, something I am certain you do not want to
> occur, nor do I.

Funds?  I don't want any funds.  You use your funds to pay me my money.
Then you can have your accountant deduct it from his accounting of your
funds.

> I encourage you to accept the fact that we are not
> going to give you gold and that you will have to take greenbacks."

"We"??  Who is "we"?  Who mentioned gold?  Don't you know the definition
of a dollar?  And what are "greenbacks"?

> Gold was never requested and payment with greenbacks is an interesting
> fact I have not yet digested.  It just goes to show how ignorant about
> money our judiciary is.  How will they ever tender greenbacks?  It is
> just a letter but somehow I hope to use it.  I am thinking.  Any
> ideas?

Was it mailed, or handed to you?  At least you seem sure that you have a
judiciary.  That's more than I can say here.

You have them by the short hairs, I think.  Same as when I had them on
tape and in front of witnesses demanding FRNs.  It killed that case
fast.

Regards,

FF

#16681 From: "Frog Farmer" <frogfrmr@...>
Date: Tue Feb 3, 2009 4:29 pm
Subject: RE: Re: More on HJR 192; Got (Lawful) Money?
originalfrog...
Send Email Send Email
 
Jake wrote:

> I don't know why you'd even want to argue the point as the matter was
> settled over 70 years ago, after the "Bank Holiday of 1933" - see
> e.g., U.S. v. Bankers' Trust Co., 294 U.S. 240 (1935):
<snip>
> We are not concerned with consequences, in the sense that
> consequences, however serious, may excuse an invasion of
> constitutional right. We are concerned with the constitutional power
> of the Congress over the monetary system of the country and its
> attempted frustration. Exercising that power, the Congress has
> undertaken to establish a uniform currency, and parity between kinds
> of currency, and to make that currency, dollar for dollar, legal
> tender for the payment of debts. In the light of abundant experience,
> the Congress was entitled to choose such a uniform monetary system,
> and to reject a dual system, with respect to all obligations within
> the range of the exercise of its constitutional authority. The
> contention that these gold clauses are valid contracts and cannot be
> struck down proceeds upon the assumption that private parties, and
> states and municipalities, may make and enforce contracts which may
> limit that authority. Dismissing that untenable assumption, the facts
> must be faced. We think that it is clearly shown that these clauses
> interfere with the exertion of the power granted to the Congress, and
> certainly it is not established that the Congress arbitrarily or
> capriciously decided that such an interference existed.
>
> The judgment and decree, severally under review, are affirmed.

And that's how it was in 1935.  But then Congress repealed HJR192 (maybe
because it was obviously unconstitutional?) as amply proven herein.  And
recent decisions prove it, by making reference to the two separate and
unequal monetary systems created by Congress and in plain sight to those
with eyes to see them today (one employer named "Kahre" comes to mind).

Even the IRS argues against the contentions of the case quoted from
1935.  They claim a new $50 coin right from the mint can be worth $800
or more!  That's parity?!  No time needed for them to collect dust or
get rare or anything!  Such is the world we live in today, where the
most ridiculous lies can be believed if the spokesperson is official
enough for the Rubes.

Regards,

FF

#16682 From: "legalbear7" <bear@...>
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2009 12:21 am
Subject: Look What New Hampshire Did!
legalbear7
Send Email Send Email
 

New Hampshire Reclaims State Supremacy

 

by Gary Wood (conservative libertarian)

Tuesday, February 3, 2009

 

Leading by example the people of New Hampshire have boldly put the federal government on notice with HCR 6 - A Resolution affirming States' rights based on Jeffersonian principles.

 

Can you imagine any state in today's economic turmoil putting the federal government on notice? Well, that is exactly what New Hampshire has done and all other states should follow their example. With their House Concurrent Resolution they've spelled out exactly what violations will no longer be tolerated. More over the resolution doesn't stop at a mere legislative warning but carries it to the executive and judicial realms as well. Listen to the language from the resolution; hear it echo in your mind.

 

"That any Act by the Congress of the United States, Executive Order of the President of the United States of America or Judicial Order by the Judicatories of the United States of America which assumes a power not delegated to the government of United States of America by the Constitution for the United States of America and which serves to diminish the liberty of the any of the several States or their citizens shall constitute a nullification of the Constitution for the United States of America by the government of the United States of America."

 

Following this is a listing of actions which would cause the    nullification. A caveat to the list is that it is not all limiting yet only an example of abuses which the federal government must no longer undertake. Clearly stating the consequences HRC 6 continues, "That should any such act of Congress become law or Executive Order or Judicial Order be put into force, all powers previously delegated to the United States of America by the Constitution for the United States shall revert to the several States individually."

 

Anyone believing they are alone in our struggle for a restoration of our foundational principles must now realize they are not. Here is a legislature willing to lead by way of active legislative resolution. Reading through the entire resolution anyone will be bolstered with pride who stands against the tyrannical course our immerging socialist democracy is currently on. As we see this level of resistance we can take heart in knowing our time of restoration is coming.

 

Gary Alder states in his About' section of his educational website (The American Constitutional Paradigm), "While we hope that this website will be of service in building honorable representatives such as Davy Crockett in Not Yours to Give,* we are more interested in creating the Horatio Bunces that will hold their representatives accountable to the Constitution." Gary reminds us of the importance of being one of those voices of accountability. What we are witnessing in New Hampshire is an entire state legislative body embracing the spirit of Horatio Bunce.

 

Does your state have the integrity and intestinal fortitude to follow suit? I'm not sure mine does but we must at least make each of the other 49 states aware of this example and ask the question. If they do not then elections may take on a whole new meaning as we strive to continue our search for honorable representatives who embrace the core principles that gave birth to our wonderful country. Thank you New Hampshire, I for one salutes your stance for liberty and freedom!

 

In 1799 Thomas Jefferson laid out New Hampshire's right for this resolution when he said;

 

"RESOLVED: That the principle and construction contended for by sundry of the state legislatures, that the general government is the exclusive judge of the extent of the powers delegated to it, stop nothing short of despotism; since the discretion of those who administer the government, and not the constitution, would be the measure of their powers: That the several states who formed that instrument, being sovereign and independent, have the unquestionable right to judge of its infraction; and that a nullification, by those sovereignties, of all unauthorized acts done under colour of that instrument, is the rightful remedy."

 

http://www.nolanchart.com/article5941.html

 

New Hampshire's HRC 6

 

Seems that those doggone Constitutionalists up in New Hampshire

are pulling Washington's chain again with a piece of legislation

called HRC 6. Basically, the New Hampshire bill would tell the

federal government to take a hike on matters where power has not

been given to the feds.

 

Specifically:

 

"That any Act by the Congress of the United States, Executive

Order of the President of the United States of America or Judicial

Order by the Judicatories of the United States of America which

assumes a power not delegated to the government of United States

of America by the Constitution for the United States of America

and which serves to diminish the liberty of the any of the several

States or their citizens shall constitute a nullification of the

Constitution for the United States of America by the government

of the United States of America.

 

Acts which would cause such a nullification include, but are not limited to:

 

I. Establishing martial law or a state of emergency within one of the States comprising the United States of America without the consent of the legislature of that State.

II. Requiring involuntary servitude, or governmental service other than a draft during a declared war, or pursuant to, or as an alternative to, incarceration after due process of law.

III. Requiring involuntary servitude or governmental service of persons under the age of 18 other than pursuant to, or as an  alternative to, incarceration after due process of law.

IV. Surrendering any power delegated or not delegated to any

corporation or foreign government.

V. Any act regarding religion; further limitations on freedom of

political speech; or further limitations on freedom of the press.

VI. Further infringements on the right to keep and bear arms

including prohibitions of type or quantity of arms or ammunition;

and

 

That should any such act of Congress become law or Executive Order or Judicial Order be put into force, all powers previously delegated to the United States of America by the Constitution for the United States shall revert to the several States individually. Any future government of the United States of America shall require ratification of three quarters of the States seeking to form a government of the United States of America and shall not be binding upon any State not seeking to form such a government; and

 

That copies of this resolution be transmitted by the house clerk to the President of the United States, each member of the United  States Congress, and the presiding officers of each State's  legislature.'

 

 

Phone Contact: 970-692-2324

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tips_and_tricks-subscribe@yahoogroups.com to join Tips & Tricks for Court Group

 


#16683 From: "The Handyman" <ebobie@...>
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2009 1:09 am
Subject: Colorado Files Gold Money Bill
threehandedman
Send Email Send Email
 
May be of interest to some...




Colorado Files Gold Money Bill

HB 09-1206, The Colorado Honest Money Act

Colorado Joins Indiana Picking Up Where New Hampshire Left Off !

State Rep. Kent Lambert (R), District 14, El Paso County
and State Sen. Kevin Lundberg (R), District 15,

Larimer County, have introduced the Colorado Honest Money
Act, HB 09-1206 in the current session.

Colorado is the third state to introduce a Sound/Honest Money/Gold
Bill based on the verbiage of well known Constitutional Scholar
and Lawyer, Dr. Edwin Vieira of Virginia.

The Gold/Sound Money Bill is compatible for any of the 50 states.

The Bill would allow Colorado to offer its citizens a choice of Gold
(and Silver) coin or the Electronic equivalent in payable and
receivable transactions with the state. This bold bill will finally bring
Colorado back into conformance with the Constitution for the United States
of America which states "No > state shall...make any Thing but gold
and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts..." Article 1, Section 10.
You can download the Colorado Bill at:

https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=WnBUYUlnaFJRR2RMWEE9PQ_(https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=WnBUYUlnaFJRR2RMWEE9PQ)The Colorado Honest Money Act will be voluntary for citizens, butmandatory for certain, specialized businesses and will allow Coloradoto fund the Treasury > with enough assets insuring that no currentstate funds will need to be earmarked. The Colorado Honest MoneyAct is NOT a > replacement for Federal Reserve Notes, but more ofa competing, Constitutional currency and aninsurance policy for our current,tenuous "money" system.You can visit the Colorado State Legislature website at:http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?c=Page&cid=1165693060219&pagename=CO-Portal%2FPage%2FCXPStandardLayout_ (http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?c=Page&cid=1165693060219&pagename=CO-P ortal/Page/CXPStandardLayout)For more information, contact:Representative Kent Lambert _rep.kent.lambert@comcast.net(mailto:re!
p.kent.lambert@comcast.net) Senator Kevin Lundberg _kevin@kevinlundberg.com(mailto:kevin@kevinlundberg.com)To view Indiana's Bill visit the Indiana Honest Money website athttp://www.indianahonestmoney.com/ (http://www.indianahonestmoney.com/For more background information and/or how any state could adopt"Honest Money" you may contact Harvey Wharfield at 978-635-9586 whohas been involved with the concept of a Gold Money Bill for thepast five years and has worked with New Hampshire, Indiana, and other states, in raising the conscientiousness of "sound money"around the country.Special thanks to all who worked so hard to get the Colorado HonestMoney Act to this exciting point.Contact: Harvey WharfieldPost Oak Public Relations 978 - 635 - 9586, 11am to 11pm,EST_postoak.pr@gmail.com_ (mailto:postoak.pr@gmail.com) >

#16684 From: "Ed Siceloff" <siceloff@...>
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2009 2:30 am
Subject: It turns out New Hampshire hasn't done anything yet.
esiceloff2001
Send Email Send Email
 
This is a proposed bill.

I think that this whole thing is saber rattling.  It’s purpose, I’d imagine, is to demonstrate the defiance against the bully, but all the while still accepting the bully’s order.  As thought New Hamshire state government is standing between the people living there and protecting them from the abuses of the Constitutionally established federal government.  Let’s see New Hampshire return its people to the common law, and its rights, promised to them in its own Constitution.   The resolution does not signify a return to the proper order of a common law ordered society in New Hampshire.  Comments below in blue. 

 

  

Acts which would cause such a nullification include, but are not limited to:

 

I. Establishing martial law or a state of emergency within one of the States comprising the United States of America without the consent of the legislature of that State.

Article 4 Section 4 of the Constitution of the United States says basically the same thing, but not quite:  “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion, and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.” 

II. Requiring involuntary servitude, or governmental service other than a draft during a declared war, or pursuant to, or as an alternative to, incarceration after due process of law.

I don’t see the ability to draft people from the states delegated to Congress anywhere in said Constitution, unless it can be extrapolated under their implied powers doctrine in the empowerment clauses of Article One Section 8 about armies and navies. 

III. Requiring involuntary servitude or governmental service of persons under the age of 18 other than pursuant to, or as an  alternative to, incarceration after due process of law.

IV. Surrendering any power delegated or not delegated to any

corporation or foreign government.

Are they seceding from the Union now, because of this.  The particular has direct application to the Federal Reserve.

V. Any act regarding religion; further limitations on freedom of

political speech; or further limitations on freedom of the press.

I’ve always had freedom of religion and will continue to avail myself of it.  I will avail myself of it even without their protection.  And, what is this about no more “limitations on freedom of political speech, or of the press.”  The press is controlled by the corporations and all of its freedom is directed towards the benefit of the corporations. 

VI. Further infringements on the right to keep and bear arms

including prohibitions of type or quantity of arms or ammunition;

  And again, “further infringements”, as though the ones that have been maintained till now are appropriate. 

and

 

That should any such act of Congress become law or Executive Order or Judicial Order be put into force, all powers previously delegated to the United States of America by the Constitution for the United States shall revert to the several States individually. Any future government of the United States of America shall require ratification of three quarters of the States seeking to form a government of the United States of America and shall not be binding upon any State not seeking to form such a government; and

 

 


#16685 From: Jake <jake_28079@...>
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2009 2:46 pm
Subject: Re: Re: More on HJR 192; Got (Lawful) Money?
jake_28079
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> My case is not between private parties and there is no contract.  It involves an exaction of property under the color of state law and payment for that exaction.  But payment with legal tender cannot be made pursuant to Hagar.  Compron?  Understand?  Do you see why I want to argue the matter?  The state has to pay me something.  What can they use as payment in an exaction pursuant to Hagar?
 
I don't see how Hagar is controlling & you're missing the point I was trying to make with cases the court dealt with in Bankers', which was simply that whatever Congress says "money" is, that's what it is & that's what you'll take, like it or not. 
 
Frog Farmer mentioned the Kahre case & I saw a similar deal when a guy wanted to buy back his house that had been foreclosed on @ the sheriff's sale with silver coin.  They said that's fine, but we'll only take it @ face value, not by weight & spot market price of the metal.  In other words, a $1 silver coin is $1; a $50 gold coin is $50; a $1 bill is $1; a $50 bill is $50 - you can write a check or do an electronic funds transfer too, but the dollar amount this house sells for will remain the same no matter what form is used.
 
The "under color of state law" claim is a separate issue & when the matter is just down to what form of payment you'll accept, I don't see that you have an argument.  Referring back to the Bankers' cases:
 
"The Constitution 'was designed to provide the same currency, having a uniform legal value in all the States.' It was for that reason that the power to regulate the value of money was conferred upon the federal government, while the same power, as well as the power to emit bills of credit, was withdrawn from the states. The states cannot declare what shall be money, or regulate its value. Whatever power there is over the currency is vested in the Congress."

#16686 From: "Frog Farmer" <frogfrmr@...>
Date: Wed Feb 4, 2009 9:58 pm
Subject: RE: Re: More on HJR 192; Got (Lawful) Money?
originalfrog...
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Jake wrote:

> I don't see how Hagar is controlling & you're missing the point I was
> trying to make with cases the court dealt with in Bankers', which was
> simply that whatever Congress says "money" is, that's what it is &
> that's what you'll take, like it or not.

That is just not true.  Who are you working for, Jake?  You might want
to study more history.

> Frog Farmer mentioned the Kahre case & I saw a similar deal when a guy
> wanted to buy back his house that had been foreclosed on @ the
> sheriff's sale with silver coin.  They said that's fine, but we'll
> only take it @ face value, not by weight & spot market price of the
> metal.

Yes, I mentioned it, and there is nothing "similar" about the "deal" at
the sheriff's sale.  You miss the point entirely of using gold or silver
at a sheriff's sale.  I'll leave that for you to discover.

> In other words, a $1 silver coin is $1; a $50 gold coin is
> $50; a $1 bill is $1; a $50 bill is $50 - you can write a check or do
> an electronic funds transfer too, but the dollar amount this house
> sells for will remain the same no matter what form is used.

It may, but it doesn't have to.  Imagine two sheriff's events, one
populated with idiots and morons, and one populated with 90% idiots and
morons, and 10% law scholars.  Do you seriously believe that one could
not have a different outcome than the other?!  I can't believe that.

> The "under color of state law" claim is a separate issue

And only if an idiot or moron decides to make it one.  I'd bet they'd
waive the issue altogether.  A student of law would most likely not get
this far.

> & when the
> matter is just down to what form of payment you'll accept,

Which it is not, in legal tender cases and money issue cases.  Let me
ask you two non-Socratic non-rhetorical questions:

1. Is the act of "acceptance" a voluntary act because of the nature of
the word?  (That's my understanding of the word.)  If it is not your
understanding, please explain its mandatory nature within a complete
sentence or paragraph.

2. Do you recognize a difference between the concepts of "payment" and
"discharge"?

> I don't see that you have an argument.  Referring back to the Bankers'
cases:
>
> "The Constitution 'was designed to provide the same currency, having a
> uniform legal value in all the States.'

No, it wasn't.  It was designed to preserve what already was and had
been throughout memorable history.  The only change was on the face of
the coins.  Now we have the government counterfeiting its people's own
coins!  And violating the constitutions both state and federal on many
fronts.  Show them a law, and they'll break it!

> It was for that reason that
> the power to regulate the value of money was conferred upon the
> federal government,

Value meant the proportion of metals in the alloys, and the amounts of
the metals in each coin.  That was done and was never repealed.  I hope
everyone understands that point.

> while the same power, as well as the power to emit
> bills of credit, was withdrawn from the states.

It wasn't "withdrawn"; it was denied. But it was never granted to the
feds either:
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/bancroft/part_three.htm

> The states cannot
> declare what shall be money, or regulate its value. Whatever power
> there is over the currency is vested in the Congress."

Apples and oranges.  Money is what it was when the people adopted their
constitutions.  It's what they affirmed it was immediately thereafter
and has never been repealed.

As to "whatever power there is over the currency":
"Currency" is whatever is "current" as money BY LAW.

> is vested in the Congress.

Their only power is to obey the law and keep it the same now and
forever, thus it is known as a standard" of weights and measures.  The
word "dollar" is the name of the monetary unit that has a specific
weight and measure of a specific "value" (metallurgical purity).  To
change the meaning of the word "dollar" would take a constitutional
amendment.

Recent "new math" students have come to think in terms of what "old
math" students used to call "absolute numbers" where the "value" of "+5"
is the same as the value of "-5".  This is THEIR problem!!  Today, a
piece of paper representing the default of a promise to pay is taken by
recent graduates and arrivals as equal to actual payment in substance
which extinguishes the debt forever and does not pass it on to another
party.  Again, this is THEIR problem!

And again, the repeal of HJR192 is so painful to the banking interests
that their shills suffer nearly 100% cognitive dissonance in regards to
that fact when discussing money (positive) and finance (negative).

Regards,

FF

#16687 From: "The Handyman" <ebobie@...>
Date: Thu Feb 5, 2009 4:53 pm
Subject: Owner can rent bldg. for gold
threehandedman
Send Email Send Email
 
Congress repealed the ban on private ownership of gold in 1975, later amending the 1933 law to provide that parties could include gold clauses in contracts formed after 1977.  Read case and recent decision.
 

#16688 From: vicki mangum <vickivarner55@...>
Date: Fri Feb 6, 2009 1:29 am
Subject: Re: Look What New Hampshire Did!
vickivarner55
Send Email Send Email
 
I remember several years ago that New Hampshire was chosen as the state of
choice for The Free State Project.  I wonder if those guys and gals made the
difference.  It would be interesting to find out what they are actually doing these days.



--- On Tue, 2/3/09, legalbear7 <bear@...> wrote:

From: legalbear7 <bear@...>
Subject: [tips_and_tricks] Look What New Hampshire Did!
To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 5:21 PM

New Hampshire Reclaims State Supremacy

 

by Gary Wood (conservative libertarian)

Tuesday, February 3, 2009

 

Leading by example the people of New Hampshire have boldly put the federal government on notice with HCR 6 - A Resolution affirming States' rights based on Jeffersonian principles.

 

Can you imagine any state in today's economic turmoil putting the federal government on notice? Well, that is exactly what New Hampshire has done and all other states should follow their example. With their House Concurrent Resolution they've spelled out exactly what violations will no longer be tolerated. More over the resolution doesn't stop at a mere legislative warning but carries it to the executive and judicial realms as well. Listen to the language from the resolution; hear it echo in your mind.

 


Phone Contact: 970-692-2324

Best times to call: 8:30 am-9:00 pm MST

Bear's Pages: www.irsterminator.com www.legalbears.com

www.irslienthumper.com www.irslevythumper.com www.irs-armory.com www.freedivorceforms.net

www.cantheydothat.com (a free lien evaluation) Send an email to:

tips_and_tricks- subscribe@ yahoogroups. com to join Tips & Tricks for Court Group

 



#16689 From: Levi Philos <leviphilos@...>
Date: Fri Feb 6, 2009 1:07 pm
Subject: Natural Law and the Redemption of Notes of Debt
jcarvingblock
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In a reply to a GIM (Gold is Money) thread with the header line "Banks Sitting On An Inventory Time Bomb" I write:
Quote:
Originally Posted by killer2021 View Post
Definitely. Just stop paying. It'll take the banks months or even a year to get you out. In the mean time, the amount you were paying on your mortgage can now go to saving up or doing whatever. It is a no brainer.
This type of conclusion will be widely made. It is exactly what I was writing about when I wrote "search for two terms in association by using quotation marks: 'liquidity preference' + 'zero point.' "

What it means is people will do anything to get into a position of positive liquidity and they will not borrow with terms of repayment that include interest above zero.

Now, consider the phrase: "If you keep doing what you've been doing you will continue to get the results you have been getting." In that usage I am not referring to individuals, but rather to government and to banks in a collective fashion.

THE MODEL IS WRONG, AND THE ONLY SOLUTION IS TO CHANGE THE MODEL.

We are using a mutual credit money system - this fact escapes nearly everyone - but the banks are not formally in an agency position, the face value of the money (seigniorage) is not assigned to the people, and then interest is added to the money which is created through the double entry process (hypothecated debt - the Mandrake Mechanism).

When the banks were no longer required to exchange their notes of debt for either gold or silver then all redemption of the money symbols fell upon the people who redeemed the symbols with their commodities, finished products, and intellectual and physical labor. When the debt money came into existence through the Mandrake Mechanism (double entry bookkeeping) - then if the books are ever to balance - the face value of the notes must necessarily be assigned to all of the people collectively or to producers of value individually.

Also, please recognize that the redemption process is all about correcting the previously incorrect bookkeeping entries.

Also recognize that in these events natural law now will take precedent over man's written law.

This post is: http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?p=1553203

Levi Philos

#16690 From: Al Cintra-Leite <stonekutteral@...>
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2009 4:16 am
Subject: currencies
stonekutteral
Send Email Send Email
 
I don't know if Bear will let this on because it is not exactly law
stuff , but a lot of people are interested in money and currencies ,
and they may want to google "ITHACA HOURS"
http://www.ithacahours.com/
- which is a very successful "scrip" , or currency system, that is
being used in the city of Ithaca New York, and is very well known and
so helpful to the economy that the head of the central bank system of
China has visited Ithaca to study the system , which , since the visit
, has been started up in China. Instead of having a fiat currency
backed by nothing or a gold backed currency which rewards destruction
of the environment for gold mining, Ithaca Hours are a currency backed
by hours of work pledged by the users themselves. It is a well thought
out and implemented system , and since "scrips" or local currencies
were successfully used in the Great Depression , I believe maybe there
are ways for them to be used again on a large scale...... it would be
nice if Obama could just print up United States Notes as is allowed by
the Constitution for the United States, but since the only two
presidents that tried that- Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy- , were
both killed , many think that the risk may be too great for another to
try again , plus maybe there is no gold left in Fort Knox... therefor a
grass roots movement  may work better........

#16691 From: "crl333mry" <crl333mry@...>
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2009 4:22 pm
Subject: California FTB liens expire
crl333mry
Send Email Send Email
 
For any of you working to get away from the CA FTB here is

some good information that may set you free from them.

Im not sure if the credit bureaus will remove the lien or

just mark as expired.

Someone else in CA may be able to answer that question.

Expired Lien(s)
Liens expire 10 years from the date of recording or filing and are
no longer valid, unless they are extended. ((****)) County recorders
will reject a lien released on an expired lien

http://www.taxsos.com/FTBcpm_picrs Franchise Tax Board look
under expired lien.

#16692 From: Levi Philos <leviphilos@...>
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2009 6:55 pm
Subject: Martenson & Molyneux on Money and The State (video series)
jcarvingblock
Send Email Send Email
 
Chris Martenson video series: http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse

There is that little problem of how interest bearing hypothecated debt as the basis for a money system grows the total debt in an exponential manner.

The only day anyone ever produced anything is today - this day. A money system is about the allocation and ownership of the production of each day's effort.

A money system is to the physical economy as a topographical map is to the physical geography. If you threw a topo map in a burning fireplace, would you look out the window and expect to see the dirt, roads, and swamps start burning?

How foolish is it that with work that needs doing and people willing and available to perform that work that nothing gets done for lack of pieces of paper?

It's not your debt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK6SS4ETHWQ

Perhaps it should result in the death of the state:
Stefan Molyneux (watch #3 first)

#1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGIgOIFdnMQ
#2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EJ9VyjCsXU
#3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P772Eb63qIY
#4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02rvMwSlAu0

#16693 From: "dwissel" <dwissel@...>
Date: Sun Feb 8, 2009 4:48 am
Subject: California FTB liens expire
dwissel@...
Send Email Send Email
 

Folks:

 

Most of these “notices” masquerading as lawful “paper” fall off within a few years. [Hint: A tic will fall off a dog when it is either full or if no food-source exists for it to parasite from.]

 

If memory serves me the IRS NFTL have a expiration-date “equivalent” stamped on them.

  

If the FDA treated the IRS NFTL’s like they do the food supply, this expiration and warning would appear:

 

NFTL Expiration Date: 021409

 “Warning: Consuming this notice as if it said anything about you in a sentence of whole English-language construction will lead to severe stomach agitation and mental-illness dependency problems. Under no circumstances should you add this notice to the constitution of your stomach; it is intended for the Constitution of the United States.”

 

`Being that the CA FTB is part of the STATE OF CALIFORNIA and the STATE OF CALIFORNIA is an inseparable part of the USA appearing as federal territory within California, expect a similar expiration and warning.

 

From: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of crl333mry
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 11:23 AM
To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [tips_and_tricks] California FTB liens expire

 

For any of you working to get away from the CA FTB here is

some good information that may set you free from them.

Im not sure if the credit bureaus will remove the lien or

just mark as expired.

Someone else in CA may be able to answer that question.

Expired Lien(s)
Liens expire 10 years from the date of recording or filing and are
no longer valid, unless they are extended. ((****)) County recorders
will reject a lien released on an expired lien

http://www.taxsos.com/FTBcpm_picrs Franchise Tax Board look
under expired lien.


#16694 From: Michael Sylvia <m_j_sylvia@...>
Date: Sun Feb 8, 2009 3:56 pm
Subject: Re: currencies
m_j_sylvia
Send Email Send Email
 
As as man living in the area and a past 'member' of Ithaca Hours, I would 
question the usefulness of Ithaca Hours. Shops that accept them end up swimming
in that paper. Once these shops have an ample over supply of Hours they cut back
on accepting more.

Who is to provide the hours which theoretically 'back' the Hours?

A more substantial problem is their linkage to the eroding Federal reserve note.


Mike

Peace and Freedom





________________________________
From: Al Cintra-Leite <stonekutteral@...>
To: tips_and_tricks@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 6, 2009 11:16:23 PM
Subject: [tips_and_tricks] currencies


I don't know if Bear will let this on because it is not exactly law
stuff , but a lot of people are interested in money and currencies ,
and they may want to google "ITHACA HOURS"
http://www.ithacaho urs.com/
- which is a very successful "scrip" , or currency system, that is
being used in the city of Ithaca New York, and is very well known and
so helpful to the economy that the head of the central bank system of
China has visited Ithaca to study the system , which , since the visit
, has been started up in China. Instead of having a fiat currency
backed by nothing or a gold backed currency which rewards destruction
of the environment for gold mining, Ithaca Hours are a currency backed

#16695 From: "William M. Greene" <wm@...>
Date: Mon Feb 9, 2009 3:51 am
Subject: We thank you for your support!!!
wmgreenesr
Send Email Send Email
 

As many of you know, we have a website up at www.greenes.us and everything we have submitted to the District Court so far has been done without the benefit of an attorney, and your contributions enabled us to move forwards with Case No. 1:08-cv-0820, our Interlocutory Appeal 2nd Circuit 08-04726-cv, and now that the District Court simply ignored the USCA Mandate and Dismissed our case, we are moving into our Appeal with 2nd Circuit 08-06284-cv, we are asking the USCA to Vacate the District Court’s Order Of Dismissal And Remand Case Back to The USDC For Northern New York, in Albany New York.  All of the docket history so far is viewable at http://www.greenes.us/civildocket.html.

 

Of course, we had hoped that to build a fund toward financing a seasoned professional(s) dedicated to our mission of institutionalizing vigilance in taking on the IRS in the defense of the state and federal Constitutions but that didn’t happen.  Nevertheless, we are VERY GRATEFUL as the total amount donated via PayPal last year (2008) was $1005.00 and the total amount donated by mail or in person is $870.00, for a grand total of $1,875.00.  Of course, we also raised moneys in other ways, and for example, my wife started stuffing her filtered cigarettes and we frequently made the rounds to truck stops handing out our Freedom Flyers (Side #1 & Side #2) for free, and at the same time we would give a copy of Larkin Rose's "The 861 Evidence" disk to anyone who would donate a dollar or more, and because of my wife's stuffed filtered cigarettes, we were able to offer a pack of cigarettes to anyone who donated three dollars and a carton to anyone who donated twenty-five or more, and all in all, that brought in another $825.00 for last year.  


That was last year, and although there has been a total amount donated via PayPal of $0.00 and the total amount donated by mail or in person is $100.00, for a grand total of $100.00 for the year (2009) to date, we remain hopeful that others will continue to be supportive.  Enclosed is our Working Draft for Appeal which is a VERY UNFINISHED document, but we have till the 20th of this month to get it figured out.  But my point in posting it now is that we wanted others to know that we are far from dead in the water so to speak.  But again, we are moving into our Appeal with 2nd Circuit 08-06284-cv, where we are asking the USCA to Vacate the District Court’s Order Of Dismissal And Remand Case Back to The USDC For Northern New York, in Albany New York.  If that happens, it will mean that the Second Circuit Court of Appeals agrees with us and allows us to sue the IRS independent of the United States.  

 

If that happens, we will immediately open the suit up for joiners to sign on with us in our “Public Interest Suit” against the IRS and all joiners will automatically have the signatory status of “Private Attorneys General (de jure) and guaranteed protection as stated in Docket Entry Nos. 1 and 6 ¶ 13 such that that the Supreme Court held, “It would also be preferable to Plaintiffs if the U.S. Attorney and the Justice Department intervened in this Qui Tam Action, but in the event they should not, Plaintiffs point to the fact that the Supreme Court held that, “…This and other federal courts have repeatedly held that individual litigants, acting as private attorneys-general, may have standing as "representatives of the public interest." Scripps-Howard Radio v. Comm'n, 316 U.S. 4, 14.  See also Commission v. Sanders Radio Station, 309 U.S. 470, 477; Associated Industries v. Ickes, 134 F.2d 694; Reade v. Ewing, 205 F.2d 630; Scenic Hudson Preservation Conf. v. FPC, 354 F.2d 608; Office of Communication of United Church of Christ v. FCC, 123 U.S. App. D.C. 328, 359 F.2d 994. Compare Oklahoma v. Civil Service Comm'n, 330 U.S. 127, 137 -139. And see, on actions qui tam, Marvin v. Trout, 199 U.S. 212, 225 ; United States ex rel. Marcus v. Hess, 317 U.S. 537, 546 . The various lines of authority are by no means free of difficulty, and certain of the cases may be explicable as involving a personal, if remote, economic interest…” See Flast v. Cohen, 392 U.S. 83, 120 (1968).” 

 

No matter how it all works out, I want to Thank You for your support!!!   My wife says to say a BIG Thank You too!

 

Blessings,

Bill

 


#16696 From: Gary D <garytrust@...>
Date: Mon Feb 9, 2009 6:50 pm
Subject: FW: 21 States Claiming Sovereignty
garytrust2004
Send Email Send Email
 
Hey new worthy ( yet no news ) who is thinking out there?

Best, Gary


Subject: 21 States Claiming Sovereignty
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 12:22:55 -0500

21 States Claiming Sovereignty: AZ, AL, AK, AR, CA, CO, GA, HI, ID, IN, KS, ME, MI, MO, MT, NH, NV, OK, PA, TX, & WA



*** 21 States now Claiming / Planning ***
Wow… it will be interesting to see how this turns out… it’s about time people started stepping up and speaking out.  As people have pointed out in comments, all of these (except for HI) are explicit restatements of what has always been in place, but not necessarily enforced, as detailed by the 10th Amendment.  HI is actually aiming for total sovereignty as it is claimed that HI was never really a state of the U.S. to begin with.  However, I believe the intent of these bills is to let the federal government know that the states’ sovereignty will not be overwritten… say in case certain gun ban laws get passed… or other “War Time / Martial Law” type plans come into play.  Check them out:

AZ: http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/1r/bills/hcr2024p.htm
AL: (Still searching for link - not officially posted, but analysts expect it is in the works)
AK:  (Still searching for link - not officially posted, but analysts expect it is in the works)
AR:  (Still searching for link - not officially posted, but analysts expect it is in the works)
CA: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/93-94/bill/sen/sb_0001-0050/sjr_44_bill_940829_chaptered
CO:  (Still searching for link - not officially posted, but analysts expect it is in the works)
GA: http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/1995_96/leg/fulltext/sr308.htm
HI: http://www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/07-1372.htm
ID:  (Still searching for link - not officially posted, but analysts expect it is in the works)
IN:  (Still searching for link - not officially posted, but analysts expect it is in the works)
KS:  (Still searching for link - not officially posted, but analysts expect it is in the works)
ME:  (Still searching for link - not officially posted, but analysts expect it is in the works)
MI: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(21rmjiv1sl0wvw55yxurwl55))/documents/2009-2010/Journal/House/pdf/2009-HJ-01-22-002.pdf
MO: http://www.house.mo.gov/content.aspx?info=/bills091/bills/HR212.HTM
MT: http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/billhtml/HB0246.htm
NH: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2009/HCR0006.html
NV:  (Still searching for link - not officially posted, but analysts expect it is in the works)
OK: http://www.ok-safe.com/files/documents/1/HJR1089_int.pdf
PA:  (Still searching for link - not officially posted, but analysts expect it is in the works)
TX: (not officially declared recently, but is supposedly sovereign since it was never willfully ceded to the States - put on planning list)
WA: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?year=2009&bill=4009


http://www.mrstep.com/politics/az-wa-mo-nh-ok-claiming-sovereignty/

 

 



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#16697 From: "Frog Farmer" <frogfrmr@...>
Date: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:17 am
Subject: RE: currencies
originalfrog...
Send Email Send Email
 
Michael Sylvia wrote:

> As as man living in the area and a past 'member' of Ithaca Hours, I
> would  question the usefulness of Ithaca Hours. Shops that accept them
> end up swimming in that paper. Once these shops have an ample over
> supply of Hours they cut back on accepting more.
>
> Who is to provide the hours which theoretically 'back' the Hours?

From our local experience, artists and carpenters.  Babysitters.  Not
much else.

> A more substantial problem is their linkage to the eroding Federal
> reserve note.

Don't you mean Federal Reserve Note?

Few people also know that the words "united states" also have several
different and distinct meanings.

Regards,

FF

#16698 From: "William M. Greene" <wm@...>
Date: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:56 am
Subject: Join us on ThePowerHour on Tuesday 2/17 at 9am to 10am ET
wmgreenesr
Send Email Send Email
 

As some people may be aware, my wife and I will be on the "ThePowerHour with Joyce & Dave" which is a syndicated radio broadcast where we will be interviewed on Tuesday February 17 at 9am - ET to 10am ET and our website (www.greenes.us) will be linked from the radio show.  Listen Live at www.GCNLive.com or www.ThePowerHour.com.  Also the tax attorney, Tom Cryer, will be following us on the show.   

 

Amongst the many things we may be expected to talk about is our financial problems in all this given that (1) the IRS put us out of work back in January of 2008, and (2) rather than go underground where we would find something under the table or some other method of cow-tailing and running we decided to stand and fight, and (3) the District Court refused to grant us the Injunctive Relief to allow us to return to work so that we could afford to pay our bills.

  

We will also be talking about is the fact that every American over 45 knows what it is like to get suckered into the game of floating credit and the question is why our political leaders are selling us the same floating credit game?  In terms of fiscal responsibility, exactly what kind of example are these politicians trying to set for the middle and poor classes of people in America, and especially the poor? 

 

And finally, we will be talking about our Qui Tam Action where the suit is against the IRS and NOT the United States.  Shortly after we submitted it though the District Court did everything it could to make it into a suit against the United States.  And at this time we are moving into our Appeal with 2nd Circuit 08-06284-cv, where we are asking the USCA to Vacate the District Court’s Order Of  Dismissal And Remand Case Back to The USDC For Northern New York, in Albany New York.  If that happens, it will mean that the Second Circuit Court of Appeals agrees with us and allows us to sue the IRS independent of the United States.   And if that happens, we will immediately open the suit up for joiners to sign on with us in our “Public Interest Suit” against the IRS and all joiners will automatically have the signatory status of “Private Attorneys General (de jure) and guaranteed protections.

 

Blessings,

Bill

 

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#16699 From: <bear@...>
Date: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:46 pm
Subject: Living w/o a Social Security # on UStream w/ Brad Barnhill
legalbear7
Send Email Send Email
 
Subject: Monday Night Conference Info
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 11:08:57 -0600 (CST)
From: David Alan Carmichael aclsmail@...

*This Monday night's conference is tentatively scheduled to be hosted
by Brad Barnhill*, from 7-9 pm Eastern at
www.ustream.tv/channel/i-am-not-a-number
<http://www.ustream.tv/channel/i-am-not-a-number> A call-in number will be
announced soon.

Brad became known by his online Personal Odyssey. Later, he became
known through the national media as he and his family stood to protect their
right to live without forsaking their faith and their liberty.

Brad has been courageously taking on the issues of related to what it
takes to live without embracing the SSN as an element of one's identity. He is
one who is serving his neighbor rather than having a self-serving agenda.

Consider joining the discussion about the ongoing work to provide
protection to those who cannot embrace the number, or give the mark, or the name
of the beast, on the basis of their obligations of religion.
www.ustream.tv/channel/i-am-not-a-number
<http://www.ustream.tv/channel/i-am-not-a-number>

David Alan Carmichael
American Christian Liberty Society

#16700 From: "William M. Greene" <wm@...>
Date: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:13 am
Subject: Enclosed is our Appeal Brief
wmgreenesr
Send Email Send Email
 

As some people may be aware, my wife and I were on the "ThePowerHour with Joyce & Dave" which is a syndicated radio broadcast where we were interviewed on Tuesday February 17 at 9am - ET to 10am ET and our website (www.greenes.us) will be linked from the radio show.  You can Listen to that interview at  www.ThePowerHour.com.  Also the tax attorney, Tom Cryer, followed us on the show.  

 

What we mainly talked about is our Qui Tam Action where the suit is against the IRS and NOT the United States .  Shortly after we submitted it though the District Court did everything it could to make it into a suit against the United States .  And at this time we are moving into our Appeal with 2nd Circuit 08-06284-cv, where we are asking the USCA to Vacate the District Court’s Order Of  Dismissal And Remand Case Back to The USDC For Northern New York, in Albany New York .  If that happens, it will mean that the Second Circuit Court of Appeals agrees with us and allows us to sue the IRS independent of the United States .   And if that happens, we will immediately open the suit up for joiners to sign on with us in our “Public Interest Suit” against the IRS and all joiners will automatically have the signatory status of “Private Attorneys General (de jure) and guaranteed protections. Enclosed is our Appeal Brief to the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals. 

 

Blessings,

Bill 


#16701 From: "Frog Farmer" <frogfrmr@...>
Date: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:59 am
Subject: FW: Re: Civil liberties v human rights
originalfrog...
Send Email Send Email
 
I posted this because I think it is important information that people
have to be mindful of at all times.  It's so basic most do not ever
consider it.  If one is out to disqualify usurpers, one begins early on
in the process, the earlier the better.  It's nice to know before the
event occurs what one's rights are, and what is impossible of
performance and what is not.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Roland
To: H-Net List on Human Rights
Subject: Re: Civil liberties v human rights

This discussion is suffering from the use of fuzzy terms. It is not
going to be productive unless or until some precision is adopted.

As I discuss in  *Social Contract and Constitutional Republics*
<http://www.constitution.org/soclcont.htm>, the "rights" recognized in
the U.S. Constitution form a hierarchy, deriving from four
"constitutions":

    1. The constitution of /nature/ -- comprised of all those principles
       called the laws of nature, including the ways living beings, by
       their nature, tend to behave, usually as a survival strategy for
       their genes;
    2. The constitution of /society/ -- comprised of the natural rules
       according to which social groups tend to make decisions, before
       they establish formal structures of government. These include such
       principles as decision by conventions called by public notice and
       conducted according to customary rules of parliamentary procedure,
       perhaps combined with public referendum;
    3. The constitution of the /state/ -- the society in exclusive
       possession of a territory, which defines things like fair
       representation based on location.
    4. The constitution of /government/ -- probably written, as a
       fundamental law adopted as a legislative act under the
       constitution of the state.

Each of these constitutions is subject to the ones before it. So a
statute is unconstitutional if it violates any of the above
constitutions, of government, state, society, or nature. A provision of
a written constitution of government is unconstitutional if if violates
the natural, social, or state constitutions, and a practice under the
social or state constitution is unconstitutional if it violates the
natural constitution.

Different rights originate from different levels of constitution, as
discussed above. Some of the main ones are:

Nature
     Life
     Limb (right not be be physically injured or tortured, or have one's
     health or comfort threatened)
     Liberty
     Acquisition, retention, and use of means to secure above rights
     (part of property right)
     Right not to be required to do the impossible or scientifically
     irrational
Society
     Property equity (right to reclaim property to which one has title,
     or the value thereof, beyond mere possession)
     Due process (includes due notice and fair hearing, both substantive
     and procedural, and all rights associated with juries)
     Common law trust rights
     Public decision by convention called by public notice and conducted
     by established rules of procedure
State
     Denizenship (right to remain on or return to one's domicile)
     Fair representation of different parts of the territory
Government
     Citizenship (privilege to vote and hold office, access to voting and
     fair counts)
     Presumption of nonauthority
     Means to remove misbehaving officials or suspend their actions, such
     as /quo warranto/ and other prerogative writs
     Getting reports on the activities and expenditures of officials
     Compensation for taking of property (part of property right)

Thus, the property right is actually a bundle of rights, part of which
are natural, and part social, in origin. It can also be governmental in
origin, as with things like intellectual property, that is established
by statute.

Distinction between rights, privileges, and immunities

The U.S. Constitution uses the term "right", but as Madison explained in

some of his later writings, the natural, social, and state rights, as
broken out above, are rights against the actions of government, for
which the term "immunity" is more accurate. Under this understanding,
every immunity is a restriction on the delegated powers of government,
and every delegated power a restriction on immunities. Together, they
partition the space of public action, with immunities and powers being
complements of each other. The rights created under the Constitution are

then more accurately referred to as "privileges". All of these are
public rights, to distinguished from the private rights that arise from
things like contracts. The use of the phrase "privileges and
immunities", used in the 14th Amendment, is therefore to be understood
as a more precise way to express the legal concepts involved.

The use of the term "right" for a sufficiency of scarce resources is a
misuse of the term

The U.S. Constitution recognizes a right of "due process", which would
seem to be sufficiency of a scarce resource, but it is not. If an
official initiates an action against an individual, he is expending a
scarce resource, but "due process" only obligates that the resources be
allocated in a way that is fair to all parties. It does not, and
cannot, obligate anyone to expend any resources at all. The law cannot
command the impossible, and therefore it may not command sufficiency of
a scarce resource, only the fair distribution of it.

The notion of "human rights" as it has emerged in the 20th century is
essentially a socialistic aspiration of providing a *sufficiency* of
scarce resources to everyone fairly. It contemplates entrenching
entitlements into law, or even into constitutions, as though it were
possible to go to court and have the judge order into existence enough
for everybody. The deification of judges and courts might flatter the
egos of some on the bench, but natural law (that first constitution) is
not sympathetic, and most judges would deny that is within their
jurisdiction or competence. The Universe is not organized for our
comfort and convenience. We are lucky that it even permits a few of us
to exist in misery, but less wallow in comfort, with a million
entertainments.

So let's stop using the term "right" for something we can't get from a
court of competent jurisdiction. By all means let us try to manage human

affairs to maximize sustainable liberty, prosperity and justice, but as
the current meltdown should inform us, what is sustainable may be far
less than most of us would like to admit, at least for as many people as

now live on the planet, living off the land and the sea.

-- Jon

#16702 From: "rafeswhiterose" <mamasuntwinkle@...>
Date: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:31 pm
Subject: A Review of Recent Compact Litigation
rafeswhiterose
Send Email Send Email
 

A Review of Recent Compact Litigation

by: Richard L. Masters

General Counsel

Interstate Commission for Adult Offender Supervision

 

Today nearly 200 compacts are in effect involving a wide range of public issues

including the environment, child welfare, water allocation, health, education, multi-state

taxation, transportation, emergency management, corrections and crime control.

Although much of the recent state activity concerning interstate compacts is in the

legislative arena, litigation concerning interstate compact issues appears to be on the

increase. Since 1975 federal and state courts have issued more than 250 opinions

involving interstate compacts. A digest of some of the more significant cases during the

period from 1975 through 2000 is available at the Council of State Government web site

at www.csg.org. (refer to National Center for Interstate Compacts, Legal Information,

"Interstate Compact Case Law, 1976-2000"). Since that time a number of additional

compact case decisions have been rendered which deserve attention. A more

comprehensive review and analysis of the cases referred to in this outline and in the

above referenced case law digest and numerous other reported decisions and legal

authorities is contained in "The Evolving Use and the Changing Role of Interstate

Compacts: A Practitioner's Guide" Buenger, Masters, McCabe & Broun, 2006

published by the American Bar Association.

 

 

Administrative Procedures and Rulemaking

 

Organic Cow, LLC v. Northeast Dairy Compact Commission, 164 F.Supp2d 412 ( 2001),

vacated and remanded, Organic Cow, LLC v. Ctr. for New England Dairy Compact

Research, 335 F.3d 66 (2d Cir. 2003) holding that procedural limitations under an

interstate compact where a petition seeking exemption from the regulations of the

Compact was subject to restrictions limiting the parties to presentation of up to two (2)

affidavits and a brief, without the benefit of an oral hearing were approved by the court

which found that the intent of the compact was to establish a basic structure through

which the regulatory commission created may achieve its purposes through regulatory

techniques historically associated with milk marketing and to afford the commission

broad flexibility to devise regulatory mechanisms to achieve the purposes of the compact.

This case also holds that a compact created agency is not subject to the federal

Administrative Procedures Act simply because it is sanctioned by Congress.

 

Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Board of Probation and Parole et al vs. Interstate

Commission for Adult Offender Supervision, (Dist. DC 2004), appeal dismissed

Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Board of Probation and Parole v. Interstate Commission

for Adult Offender Supervision, 2005 U.S. App. LEXIS 3151 (D.C. Cir. 2005), the U.S.

Dist. Court for the Dist. of Columbia denied an injunction sought by the State of

Pennsylvania against enforcement of rules promulgated by the Commission alleging the

rulemaking procedures violated the Administrative Procedures Act and various

provisions of the Interstate Compact for Adult Offender Supervision. On appeal of the

denial of the injunction a three judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Dist. of

Columbia dismissed the appeal as moot.

 

 

Choice of Law and Forum Issues

 

Washington-Dulles Transport. Ltd. v. Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority, 263

F.3d 371 (4th Cir. 2001), holding that a compact provision that original jurisdiction over

compact matters is vested in the courts of Virginia and that the courts "shall in all cases

apply the law of the Commonwealth of Virginia" is a contractually valid agreement

between the parties to the compact. Moreover, even if suit is brought in federal court, the

party states have agreed that the federal courts will apply Virginia law in any dispute or

litigation. In approving this compact, Congress consented to these choice of law

provisions as binding elements in the agreement.

 

 

Civil Rights Liability under 42 U.S.C. Section 1983

 

Orville Lines v. Wargo, 271 F. Supp.2d 649 (W.D. PA 2003), holding that the provisions

of the Interstate Compact for the Supervision of Parolees and Probationers, the

predecessor of the Interstate Compact for the Supervision of Adult Offenders, do not

create a private right of action under 42 U.S.C. Section 1983 for those subject to its

provisions (offenders on probation or parole). The court held that nothing short of a right

unambiguously conferred by Congress would support such a cause of action and that

neither the compact language nor the consent of congress manifested an intent to create a

new individual right for adult offenders.

 

 

Conflict of Compact with Subsequent State Laws

 

International Union of Operating Engineers, Local 542 v. Delaware River Joint Toll

Bridge Commission, 311 F.3d 273 (3d Cir. 2002), holding that the question of whether

subsequent state legislation is binding upon a compact which was not the subject of

congressional consent was dependant upon whether the states that pass substantially

similar legislation have in effect amended a compact to impose new law. As this opinion

indicates, the courts are not in agreement.

 

Skamania County v. Woodall, 104 Wash. App. 525, 16 P.3d 701 (2001) holding that the

Columbia River Gorge Compact must apply Washington state law because the Columbia

River Gorge Compact language did not specifically reject such state law.

Arkansas Department of Health and Human Services v. Kandie Sue Kucera Feryanitz et

al., Cir. Ct. of Newton Co. Ark., Juv. Div. No. JV2003-20-2, (Jan. 23, 2006), declaring

the application of the Interstate Compact for the Placement of Children unconstitutional

under the equal protection clauses of the U.S. Constitution and Arkansas Constitution

based on a subsequent state legislative amendment to the compact redefining foster care

in a manner contrary to the existing definition in all other states which are members of

the compact (ICPC in effect in 50 states).

 

 

Congressional Consent

 

Intermountain Municipal Gas Agency v. F.E.R.C., 326 F.3d 1281 (D.C. Cir. 2003),

holding that Utah and Arizona could not by interstate agreement create a mutual

governing entity to escape the regulatory authority given to the Federal Energy

Regulatory Commission by the federal Natural Gas Act. Therefore, while Congress may

use its consent power to alter the "landscape" in which joint state action takes place,

states may not conversely use the interstate compact or similar process as a means for

avoiding or circumventing congressional authority in the absence of the explicit

agreement by Congress that such action is permissible.

 

U.S. ex rel. Blumenthal-Kahn Elec. Ltd. Partnership v. American Home Assurance

Company, 219 F. Supp.2d 710 (E.D. VA 2002), holding that the provisions of the Miller

Act which require a contractor to provide a performance bond prior to construction or

alteration did not apply to the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority and the

agency created pursuant to the compact because the entity is not a "federal agency" even

though it has received congressional consent.

 

Heard Communications, Inc. v. Bi-State Development Agency, 18 Fed. Appx. 438 (8th

Cir. 2001), holding that congressional consent does not transform bi-state development

agency into federal administrative agency.

 

Friends of the Columbia Gorge v. Columbia River Gorge Commission, 108 P.3d 134

(Wash. Ct. App. 2005), holding that while state courts are required to apply federal law in

interpreting the compact, in the absence of specific procedural rules, the state court

applies state administrative law. amended by Friends of the Columbia Gorge v. Columbia

River Gorge Commission, 2005 Wash. App. LEXIS 968 (May 5, 2005).

 

 

Due Process Issues

 

Organic Cow, LLC v. Northeast Dairy Compact Commission, 164 F.Supp.2d 412 (2001),

vacated and remanded, Organic Cow, LLC v. Ctr. for New England Dairy Compact

Research, 335 F.3d 66 (2d Cir. 2003) holding that if constitutionally protected interests

are implicated by an action taken under an interstate compact, due process claims may be

subject to the balancing of interests called for under Mathews v. Eldridge, 424 U.S. 319

(1976). Here the questions are: what are the private interests involved; what is the risk of

error and the value of additional procedural safeguards to avoid that risk; and what are

the strengths of the compact agency's interests. In this case a corporate entity subject to

the compact was seeking an exemption from a price regulation under the compact based

on an asserted constitutionally protected property right which the court held could not be

denied without `appropriate procedural safeguards' Id at 421.

 

 

Eleventh Amendment Immunity and Sovereign Immunity

 

Kansas v. Colorado, 533 U.S. 1 (2001), holding that 11th Amendment immunity

precludes a direct action by citizens of Kansas against Colorado for recovery of damages

based on alleged losses sustained by individual water users.

 

Abdulwali v. Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority, 315 F.3d 302 (D.C. Cir.

2003) holding that where compact did not prescribe design specifications for metro cars;

agency made discretionary choices when it established plans, specifications, or schedules

regarding the metro system that fell within the scope of a discretionary function, and thus

sovereign immunity barred plaintiff's claims.

 

Watters v. Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority, 295 F.3d 36 (D.C. Cir.

2002), holding that an entity created pursuant to the Compact Clause of the federal

Constitution will not be presumed to qualify for 11th Amendment immunity unless there

is good reason to believe that the states structured the entity to arm it with the states' own

immunity, but even where the 11th Amendment does not offer protection such an entity

may be immune from suit under the laws of the states that created it. The Watters court

also held: "We may find a waiver of sovereign immunity `only where stated by the most

express language or by such overwhelming implications from the text [of the compact] as

will leave no room for any other reasonable construction.'" (citations omitted).

 

Lizzi v. Alexander, 255 F.3d 128 (4th Cir. 2001), holding that if properly conferred, a

compact created agency receiving 44% of its funding from member states may be

considered an entity of the "state" and thus shielded by 11th Amendment immunity.

 

Entergy, Arkansas, Inc. v. Nebraska, 68 F. Supp.2d 1093 (D. NE 1999), aff'd Entergy,

Arkansas, Inc. v. Nebraska, 241 F.3d 1979 (8th Cir. 2001), construing claims of 11th

Amendment protection by Nebraska officials as commissioners under the Central

Interstate Low-Level Radioactive Waste Compact, holding that the state and its officers

are protected in their official capacity against any claims other than declaratory and

injunctive relief.

 

 

Enforcement of Compacts and Regulations

 

Tahoe-Sierra Preservation Council, Inc. v. Tahoe Regional Planning Agency, 535 U.S.

302 (2002) recognizing the validity of interstate compact regulations establishing

environmental thresholds for air quality, water quality, soil conservation, vegetation

preservation, wildlife, fisheries, noise, recreation and scenic resources and that the mere

enactment of regulations implementing a 32 month moratorium on development in the

Tahoe Basin did not constitute a per se taking of the landowners' property.

 

Washington-Dulles Transp., Ltd. v. Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority, 87 Fed.

Appx. 843 (4th Cir. 2004), cert denied, 125 S. Ct. 50 (Oct. 4, 2004), in regard to bidding

procedures where a disappointed bidder challenges the decision of a compact agency, the

court relying on and earlier decision in Old Town Trolley Tours v. Washington Metro.

Area Transit Commission, 129 F.3d 201 (D.C. Cir. 1997) held that where the compact

which created the regulatory entity is silent on the appropriate rulemaking standard, the

courts have generally applied the "arbitrary and capricious" standard of review.

Committee for Reasonable Regulation of Lake Tahoe v. Tahoe Regional Planning

Agency, 311 F. Supp.2d 972 (D. Nev. 2004), in which the court held that compact

agencies such as the Tahoe Regional Planning Commission have the authority to issue

rules and regulations as long as such rulemaking is within the scope of its mandate under

the compact. Judicial inquiry into the agency's actions is limited to determining whether

an act or decision is arbitrary, capricious, lacked substantial evidentiary support, or the

agency failed to proceed in a manner required by law.

 

Interstate Commission for Adult Offender Supervision v. Tennessee Board of Probation

and Parole et al (U.S. District Court, Eastern District of Kentucky, 04-526-KSF, 2005)

relying upon Cuyler v. Adams, 449 U.S. 433 (1981) and Carchman v. Nash, 473 U.S. 716

(1985), in the first enforcement action filed by the Commission under the provisions of

the Interstate Compact for Adult Offender Supervision the court held that an interstate

compact receiving congressional approval enjoys the status of federal law and the

administrative rules of the compact Commission function as a law of the United States

applicable to the member states under the terms of the compact and through the operation

of the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution. Thus, the terms of such compact and any

rules and regulations authorized by the compact supercede substantive state laws which

are in conflict.

 

Doe v. Ward, 124 F. Supp.2d 900 (W.D. PA 2000), holding that conflicting provisions of

a state statute regulating sex offenders must yield to the provisions of the Interstate

Compact for the Supervision of Parolees and Probationers because of its status as federal

law as an interstate compact sanctioned under the compact clause of the federal

Constitution.

 

Virginia v. Achu, 54 Va. Cir. 109 (Va. Cir. Ct. 2000), holding that the Metropolitan

Washington Airports Authority was a properly constituted compact agency, and its

regulations regarding the unlawful solicitation of passengers were constitutional and

enforceable.

 

 

Implied or Express Termination of Compacts

 

Virginia v. Maryland, 540 U.S. 56 (2003), holding that an interstate compact negotiated

in 1785, predating the Constitution of the United States was still in force and the Supreme

Court will resolve disputes arising under the agreement exercising its original jurisdiction

invoked by the parties.

 

 

Judicial Interpretation of Compact Language

 

Alabama v. Bozeman, 533 U.S. 146 (2001), holding that a congressionally sanctioned

interstate compact under the compact clause of the federal Constitution has the status of

federal law and is subject to federal construction.

New York v. Hill, 528 U.S. 110 (2000), holding that by transforming an interstate

compact into federal law, congressional consent gives rise to federal questions subject to

federal construction and resolution.

 

Entergy Arkansas, Inc. v. Nebraska, 358 F.3d 528 (8th Cir. 2004), cert. denied sub nom

Nebraska v. Central Interstate Low-Level Radioactive Waste Commission, 2004 WL

1874952 (U.S. Aug. 23, 2004), where the Court looked to the Restatement (2d) of

Contracts to decide whether an interstate commission acted in good faith in denying a

license, a question of fact reviewed for clear error.

 

New York State Dairy Foods v. Northeast Dairy Compact Commission, 26 F. Supp.2d

249 (D. Mass 1998), aff'd 198 F.3d 1 (1st Cir. 1999), cert. denied, 529 U.S. 1098 (2000),

holding that in the interpretation and enforcement of interstate compacts courts are

constrained to effectuate the terms of the compact as a binding contract so long as those

terms do not conflict with constitutional principles.

 

 

Standing and Indispensable or Interested Parties

 

Alabama v. North Carolina, 540 U.S. 1014 (2003), holding that a compact commission is

not precluded from being an interested party to a suit between states and the presence of a

compact commission as an interested party is not fatal to invoking the Supreme Court's

original jurisdiction so long as the suit unequivocally involves states suing states in their

sovereign capacity.

 

American Greyhound Racing, Inc. v. Hull, 305 F.3d 1015 (9th Cir. 2002), applying

F.R.C.P. 19 to answer whether the Arizona tribes with gaming compacts entered pursuant

to A.R.S. Section 5-601(A) are indispensable parties. This case also stands for the

proposition that in resolving questions related to standing to participate in the

adjudicative process involving an interstate compact with congressional consent will be

answered under federal law and will be based upon an analysis of which stakeholders are

"parties" with standing to benefit from the procedural requirements of such an interstate

compact. Under F.R.C.P. 19(a) joinder of such a party occurs if any of the following

requisites are met: (1) in the person's absence complete relief cannot be accorded among

those already parties, or (2) the person claims an interest relating to the subject matter of

the action and is so situated that the disposition of the action in the person's absence may

(i) as a practical matter impair or impede the person's ability to protect that interest or (ii)

leave any of the persons already parties subject to a substantial risk of incurring double,

multiple, or otherwise inconsistent obligations by reason of the claimed interest. Id. at

1022.

 

 

State or Federal Status of an Interstate Compact Entity

 

Heard Communications, Inc. v. Bi-State Development Agency, 18 Fed. Appx. 438 (8th

Cir. 2001), holding that congressional consent does not transform bi-state development

agency into federal administrative agency.

Murray v. Oregon, No. 9700012CC (Wasco County Cir. Ct., Mar. 4, 2002) appeal filed

No. A117707 (Or. App. Mar. 28, 2002), lower court held that the Columbia River Gorge

Commission, an interstate compact entity, is an Oregon state agency for the purpose of

holding the State of Oregon liable in inverse condemnation for an action of the

Commission.

 

 

Tort Liability for Negligent Supervision

 

Hansen v. Scott, 645 N.W.2d 223 (N.D. 2002) cert denied, 537 U.S. 1108 (2003),

Daughters brought an action in connection with the murder of their parents by a parolee

who had been transferred to North Dakota for parole supervision by Texas officials. The

plaintiffs alleged that the employees of the Texas compact office which was responsible

for administering the interstate compact for the supervision of this offender failed to

notify North Dakota officials about his long criminal history and dangerous propensities

and sought to hold the Texas employees liable on their wrongful death, survivorship, and

42 U.S.C. Section 1983 claims. The Supreme Court of North Dakota held the tort claim

justified the exercise of personal jurisdiction over the Texas employees because of their

affirmative action of requesting North Dakota to supervise a Texas parolee constituted

activity in which they purposefully availed themselves of the privilege of sending the

parolee to North Dakota and thus could have reasonably anticipated being brought into

court in North Dakota to defend these claims and the exercise of personal jurisdiction

comports with due process.


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