93,

Has anyone any information on this brother, Robertus de Fluctibus?

I get the image that he is a Templar of some fashion.

CT

93 CT

Did a Google search, and got this:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF8&q=Robertus+de+Fluctibus

Should provide you with enough information on this Gnostic Saint.

A,
James

93  93/93



At 05:53 AM 7/3/02 +0000, you wrote:
>93,
>
>Has anyone any information on this brother, Robertus de Fluctibus?
>
>I get the image that he is a Templar of some fashion.
>
>CT
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>thelema93-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

93 CR,

>Has anyone any information on this brother, Robertus de Fluctibus?

Bob Fludd (1574 to 1637)  He was a contemporary in England of Francis Bacon
and Shakespeare (time of Queen Elisabeth Ist to King James Ist); Physician,
Rosicrucian(old style by published self association) and early
encylopedist.  His major book is "Utriusque cosmi maioris salicet et
minoris metaphysica" -- I only have it in Latin.

>I get the image that he is a Templar of some fashion.  No, just a defender
of Rosicrucianism.

93 93/93
Bill

http://lonestar.texas.net/~dionysos/stdates.htm

93,

The Greater Feast for Brother Fluctibus is July 8th.

I wonder if he is contacting me from beyond the grave?

CT

At 05:02 AM 7/3/02 -0700, Bill Heidrick wrote:
>93 CR,
>
>>Has anyone any information on this brother, Robertus de Fluctibus?
>
>Bob Fludd (1574 to 1637)

Oh! I didn't make the connection between Fluctibus and Fludd. He's one of
the "characters" in the book I'm currently reading: "The Rosicrucian
Enlightenment" by Francis A. Yates

I'm still at the beginning of the book, but so far I highly recommend it
for those who want some historical background on the transition from
Hermeticism to Rosicrucianism, the Invisible College, the Winter King and
Queen, etc.


--
http://www.magdalenemeretrix.com

"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."

                 ­­ Wilson Mizner

93,

Strange that Bob here had two feast dates one in July and one in
September according to Dionysos on his link. The research I have dine
this afternoon says he died on Sept 8th. Nothing like a little
congnitive dissonance to get your feast started right!

CT




--- In thelema93-l@y..., "christitan93" <christitan@z...> wrote:
> http://lonestar.texas.net/~dionysos/stdates.htm
>
> 93,
>
> The Greater Feast for Brother Fluctibus is July 8th.
>
> I wonder if he is contacting me from beyond the grave?
>
> CT

Do what thou wilt.

My name is Daniel Huth, I am an aspiring musician and self-proclaimed
sex god.  My dream is to be 777 spoken of in Liber Aleph.  My worst
nightmare is that my insatiable craving for drugs will one day turn
me into either an animal or a retard.  For further misconception of
the soon-to-be Legend (note capitalization), Daniel Huth, visit
www.mp3.com/placement at no cost or physical harm to you.

Love is the Law, Love under Will.

Daniel Huth
_________________

"Peorth means God, which is why it has no meaning."

The July 8 feast was a bust. I have found the feast recipe. It is
Beef in Bishops Finger Ale. Maybe Sept 8th will be better?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/uncovered/markets/mo_recipe2.shtml

Brother Fluctibus was a Kent resident and Bishops Finger Ale is
brewed in Kent and has for hundreds of years. Ol Bob must have
enjoyed one or two in his time.

The symbolism of drowning the beef in a FLOOD of beer is very apt.

The Bishops Finger has gnostic allegory. Traditionally a bishops
finger is a particulary shapped sign that pointed the way to
Cantabury Catherdral (however it is spelled).

Since Bob helped translate the bible I decided to test the Shabetean
Rabbi Nachman of Bosra who provided a tikkun, or ten verses of psalms
that have a magickal reservoir of power. Since reading the bible is
breaking a taboo I dug in. To my suprise references to a flood were
made and a thread of flood related symbolism ran trough the whole
tikkun. I intuited that Bob was familiar with Nachman and translated
thoses psalms.

The alchemy ritual of reading the flood verses while pouring the beer
over the beef should be adequate to form a magickal link with
Fluctibus.

The toughest part of this is finding Bishops Finger Ale in the USA. I
had two leads of distributors in USA but both numbers were
disconnected. If anyone is interested in this ritual and has any luck
finding this beer,let me know.

I have just had the most successful ritual to Ammon-Ra using beer as
the offering. The gods love beer, this is a timeless truth!!!!


Chris Titan




--- In thelema93-l@y..., "christitan93" <christitan@z...> wrote:
> 93,
>
> Strange that Bob here had two feast dates one in July and one in
> September according to Dionysos on his link. The research I have
dine
> this afternoon says he died on Sept 8th. Nothing like a little
> congnitive dissonance to get your feast started right!
>
> CT
>
>
>
>
> --- In thelema93-l@y..., "christitan93" <christitan@z...> wrote:
> > http://lonestar.texas.net/~dionysos/stdates.htm
> >
> > 93,
> >
> > The Greater Feast for Brother Fluctibus is July 8th.
> >
> > I wonder if he is contacting me from beyond the grave?
> >
> > CT

From:  "christitan93" <christitan@z...>
Date:  Sun Jun 30, 2002  12:05 am
Subject:  Re: Chastity


Chris Titan:The practice of not discharging the tension has manifold
effects. Uncomfortable but the will is in control.

--- In Sex_Magick@y..., "aikkia2001" <aikkia2001@y...> wrote:
> CT
> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
> Greetings(Every one).Could it be possible that the discomfort is
> distracting your true will? The will may be in control but it may
not
> be as focused or strong or even true. When one has a toothache or
> headache, The focus on any one or other thing (In most cases)is
> diminished.(

Great point. The discomfort was more from surges of energy moving
through my body. Discomfort to the urge to relase to energy, very
powerful to the Will that wanted to experience a higher degree of
energy at the expence of the habituated desire to releive any sexual
tension as it appears.

>I am not sure if you are male or female).For the male it
> may seem that this form of temporary(?)chasity may be beneficial
>from the statements put forth in the article(Link below), although
>the buildup should be painless and even pleasurable in my opinion
>(One should leave the pain to the S&M games & roleplay.LOL)

Yes Higher Will playing the Top and lower will submitting. hmm, there
is probably a good S&M 5=6 working in here somewhere.

>I believe the best way to concentrate & focus the will would be
>through meditation even though there is some pain and discomfort in
>mastering the Asanas.I would also like to mention Chapter 3 verse 55
>from Liber AL but that's another story.Either way...May success be
>your proof!

Even better than meditaion is Ritual itself.(IMO) Spontaneios ritual
is the best. My chastity culimated in an invokation to Ra, that was
very intense. It revolved around a very simple magickal idea that
creation was created so that the creator could experience itself. I
find that this self awareness of creation manifests itself during
invokations to Ra.
Being compelled to but a large porter house steak and two black
beers by Heru-Ra-Ha while shopping, I proceeded to worship at the BBQ
fire with a large Two handed sword, collecting the rays as the fell
from Jupiter. (See Liber Al for details of Horus worship)
During the feast, eating alone, I began to get these tremendous
rushes of sexualy charged energy. It felt so good, like I was
getting a blow job from under the table. This was very cool, I could
sence the invisible priestess of Ra. The feast being done I grabbed
the a bottle of Youngs Oatmeal Stout and retires to the temple. I
analyzed the bottle. It had a large Ram on the label. It was at this
point I felt the confirmation of my focus. I had gatherd Jupier rays
during an invokation to Ra, the jupiter aspect of Ra is Ammon-Ra,
who is shown as a ram headed figure with plumes. I was invoking
Ammoun-Ra.
One thing that may not translate well was the incident of erecting
the alter. On my 30th birthday I was given a large 4x4 beam threefoot
long as a joke. Just an obnoxious gift from a lunatic cluttering my
room for the last few years. I set it in the middle of the floor. I
marveled at how it was symnbolic of the erect penis. I circambulated
it with celebration, I placed my glass of black beer upon it and was
glad. Really felt good, jus simple things. I saw the tablet of Union
I made out of wood and balanced it on the beam, and set the beer on
there. It was hot And I had taken of my shirt. I looked over at a
papyrus painting of priests making an offering to Horus and Osiris in
my Temple and it hit ne, the alter I constructed was exactly an old
egyptian stlye alter, I went into the deepest trance. I offered the
god beer in a kneeling egyptian style pose (that I later found out is
the pose in the hiroglyphic for Ra).
I then pulled a book off the shelf that I forgotten had a short
egyptian ritual in it. I recited the ritual in my broken egyptian.
Once this was read began to prepare to consume the beer for the god.
As I stood at the alter, Ammoun told me how he resonated with the
story of Ptah creating the universe. The concealed one. I was
instructed to pleasure myself as I took deep droughts of sweet black
beer. The god endwelled me! Such ecstacy from beer and masterbaition
was unwarrented, this was a true ancient ritual of worship. I was
told to use the wand to create. That I was the concealed one, that
the sexual energy was enlivening the seeds of my will. That the
degree of love in the sexual pleasere would be translated to the love
of crating and caretaking the manifestations of my will. I was
instructed to proceede as Ptah. I washed it all down with the last of
the sacred beer.
I recieved verse 47 from the Fifth chapter of LXV. I laid down upon
the bed of flowers and thorns, pain and pleasre mingled in ultimate
offering to Adoni.
Without the chasity experiment I would not had the proper charge.

Chris Titan,
Frater Turris

--- In thelema93-l@y..., "sounds_of_placement" <LudicrousSmiles@j...>
wrote:
> Do what thou wilt.
>
> My name is Daniel Huth, I am an aspiring musician and
self-proclaimed
> sex god.  My dream is to be 777 spoken of in Liber Aleph.

   777 as addressed in Liber Aleph is Charles Stansfield Jones, whose
Latin motto enumerates to 777 using Hebrew gematria.

   Tim Moss

stay young forever
http://www.alexchiu.com/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=naphere

The gist of it is that correctly placed magnets can improve the
circulation and lead to immortality. His musings on the coming of the
Messiah and how to prevent world war are also quite amusing.
you get $15 when you join and $10 for every person who buys the device
and can get your free immortality rings

By the way... the link above will redirect you to his website but will
also get me credit for a click. If I get 80 clicks the inventor will
send me a free immortality device. I want it just for novelty purposes
so help me out if you feel like it. I still think you should
check it out for the comedic value. Just go straight to the home page
without giving me credit if that's how you feel about it.

Just to let everyone know that the degree rituals and instructions are once more
available at
http://www.iopan.hpg.com.br






http://www.ieg.com.br

I'm sorry that this is going everywhere but I wanted to say I'm still here
at this address or and the_rev_diana@... one. A couple of the yahoo
groups that i am on are having problems of people being idle for a few
months to a few years which leads to bounced emails. i dont want to see any
group get deleted over that. Yes, Im an idle one, but my email preferences
are set to special notices, and i havent really had too much to say yet. so
please dont drop me from the list.


BB/93,
Why? Because of the fall of Because.
Em Hotep!
Rev. Diana
http://wiccans-r-us.netfirms.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WICCANS-R-US/

And when Goddess, who created the entire universe with all of its glories,
decides to deliver a message to humanity, She WILL NOT use, as Her
messenger, a person on Cable TV with a very bad hairstyle!


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com

Wow!  De Natura Deorum is super cool.  Thanks for posting this.

bloodofenoch

--- In thelema93-l@y..., "Frater NEMO" <iopan@i...> wrote:
> Just to let everyone know that the degree rituals and instructions
are once more
> available at
> http://www.iopan.hpg.com.br
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.ieg.com.br

93!

See: http://www.kiva.net/~julianus/typhonian.html

93 93/93!

-- Julianus

------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Nothing on the face of this earth -- and I do mean nothing -- is half
so dangerous as a children’s story that happens to be real, and you and
I are wandering blindfolded through a myth devised by a maniac.’
-- Master Li Kao (T’ang Dynasty)
------------------------------------------------------------------

~ John’s Creeping Homepage of Doom ~
http://www.kiva.net/~julianus/main.html
~ Art Portfolio ~ Typhonian Tomes ~ Qartoon Qabalah ~ Magical Games ~
Lovecraftian Qabalah ~ The Thelemite Test ~

93

indeed -- especially for those who do not yet know how to coagula the solve
at

http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeroen93/

:-D

(multi-national rules, mono-natzis suck :)

Love is the law, love under will.

Hal

In a message dated 7/12/02 10:36:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bloodofenoch@... writes:
> Wow!  De Natura Deorum is super cool.  Thanks for posting this.
>
> bloodofenoch
>
> --- In thelema93-l@y..., "Frater NEMO" <iopan@i...> wrote:
> >Just to let everyone know that the degree rituals and instructions
> are once more
> >available at
> >http://www.iopan.hpg.com.br
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >http://www.ieg.com.br


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

Does anyone know where I can find an online copy of the A.'.A.'.
Neophyte Initiation Ritual 671, "Liber ThROA" (not Liber Pyramidos)?

Love is the law, love under will.

Fraternally yours in L.V.X.,
H.S.

93 Chris

--- In thelema93-l@y..., Chris Plaisance <toas418@y...> wrote:

> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
> I have been studying Thelema and magick for several years now
> and have never had any real problems with it, until recently.
> I came across a copy of the Sepher Yetzirah and became engrossed
> with it.  The problem is that the attributions of Mother, Double,
> and Elemental letters (as given in the Sepher Yetzirah) do not
> come into play, as they should, in the placement of the paths on
> Crowley's version of the tree.  The three mother letters should be
> the horozontal paths, the double letters are the verticals, and
> the elemental letters are the diagonal paths.  If anyone knows
> anything about this aparent conflict, please let me know.  I'm not
> sure if Crowley configured the tree thusly for a reason, or if he
> did it that way just because the G.'.D.'. did so.
> Love is the law, love under will.

I think the allocation of letters to paths used by the GD and
copied by AC goes back to Kircher's Oedipus Aegypticus, a late
17th century work.  A different ToL design from von Rosenroth's
Kabbala Denudata appears in one of the knowledge lectures but
this is even harder to square with the Seph Yetz as it has
Daath connected up as an 11th Sephirah (& it has no horizontal
paths).

regards,
dancingstar

Care Fratres et Sorors,

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I have a friend who has been in the process of publishing the First
English Edition of the Picatrix. I have been waiting with baited
breath for this title to be available for many years and finally my
wait is over. Yesterday he showed me an advance copy of the book and
it looks great. I only had a few moments with it but it was full of
astrological material and their relationship with talismans and
amulets. There also seemed to be much in the way of lore derived from
many different traditions. This is an opportunity to glean
information from the Esotericism of the Middle East. If anybody on
list wants to be put in touch with the publisher just email me off
list.

Love is the law, love under will.

Frater Omicron

Email: otto.omicron@...

At 9:41 AM +0900 5/25/02, Fra. S. T. wrote:
>93
>
>I've been checking back to www.beastbay.com over the past couple of weeks to
>see how their database problem was coming along. Nothing there at all now.
>Does anyone know what the plans are for the site? Is it gone for good or just
>being rebuilt?


It's still in the works.  I've been privy to the tech-talk that
explains the progress, but it was rather like Malasian to me, so I
can't pass it on, but I know that the plans are it'll be bigger and
better and cooler than ever once the bazillion and three bugs have
been worked out of the code.

	 Meliny

Hello and 93,

So are you saying Crowley wasn't still an egotistical bastard from after his
star sponge vision until the day he died?   ;-)

Across the abyss, opposites are resolved.  Words can not really express
anything about it with any clarity, as AC demonstrated with his Eight
Lectures on Yoga, if one considers Samadhi on All to be the mystical path
across the abyss .  Ego and non-ego become the same thing, and the same as
everything else, which is truly nothing (i.e. the 2=0 formula).  "Nothing
with twinkles - but what twinkles!"  I think that truly requires a "giving
up" of the ego as described by Crowley.  If you don't escape your ego, you
think your ego is everything, because that is all you saw when you attempted
to become one with everything.

>The caveat here is that the ego is not "given up" or "destroyed" in a
literal sense.

I still stand by that.  You don't lose your ego until your body dies.

>What ceases is the identification of the self (or star, in
Thelemic parlance) with the ego. The ego is only destroyed in the sense
that the illusion of its identity with the star is destroyed.

Tiphareth is the Personal Star, and is below the Abyss so therefore refers
to the individual.  It is also representative of the sphere of K&C of the
HGA.  Crowley speaks of the necessity of giving all of one's blood to the
cup of Babylon to become a star in the company of Heaven as an analogy for
crossing the Abyss.  Therefore, I would argue that before one crosses the
Abyss, the best representative cognizance of one's Star is the HGA.  The
whole trip of the HGA is to help one gain momentum to eventually cross the
Abyss, in one lifetime or another.  Upon returning as a Star in the Company
of Heaven, one emerges as an equal working partner to the HGA rather than an
inferior, and is cast into one of the lower 7 spheres.  Crowley was cast
into the sphere of Chesed to become the World Teacher.  Frater Achad
recognized himself as cast into the sphere of Malkuth.  There is a return
from beyond the Abyss, you don't stay there.  If there were not a return,
one would cease to exist entirely.  Or, from the Malkuthian perspective, the
body would die.  But there is a difference.  Crowley talks about the person
who has crossed the Abyss as having all his ducks in a row.  The function of
the ego post-abyss becomes one not unlike the function of the aspirant to
the HGA previously ~ the ego is now a tool, just like any other aspect of
the psyche, of the person who has crossed the Abyss.

>In eastern parlance, this is generally referred to as enlightenment. It
should be noted, however, that enlightenment is not an all or nothing
matter; there are various grades of enlightenment that could,

I have no disagreement there, but the question was originally asked about
the crossing of the Abyss, which is where my answer focused on.  The person
was concerned as to whether the Ego was aggrandized or given up.  My
argument is that it is given up, but that one returns to it.  If one doens't
give it up, then yes, one becomes a Black Brother and tends to aggrandize
their ego.  Either the ego is conceived in its proper relation and place
amongst all, as a tool, or the ego is conceived of as all because the Black
Brother cannot escape it upon crossing the Abyss.


>The idea that one can cross the abyss and retain the illusion of ego is,
however, pure nonsense.

One cannot retain the illusion of ego across the Abyss, but one cannot
return an ego-less shell and expect to show the glint of one's work to the
world.  In crossing the Abyss, when AC realized the role of Liber Al (whose
reception could be argued to mark him with the Grade of Magus, receiving the
word of the New Aeon), he used his ego to promote Thelema ~ what other
purpose of the Magus but to spread his word?  He was still Aleister Crowley
the man, but he was more than that, and the man / ego part was in proper
relation to the rest or he would not have accomplished the work he did
post-1904.

>The continued illusion of ego is, in that case, a
symptom of failure to actually cross the abyss -- by definition, "crossing
the abyss" is precisely the destruction of the ego-illusion

So what was Crowley after he crossed the Abyss?  An ego-less person?  He
certainly didn't lose any of his character (a vital aspect of ego).  He did
use it to attempt to further Thelema, but there could even be some question
made of how effective that was in light of his play against the norms of the
times (His cry, "The Christians to the Lions!" could certainly be considered
quite shocking today, not to mention back then!), especially when he wanted
more respect in the public eye in later life.

In the final analysis, I recognize you are entirely entitled to your
opinion, as I am to mine.  We don't have to agree, we can go with our
individual differences and that is one of the beautiful things about
Thelema.

As for the rest of this, unless you are suggesting I am part of the Black
Brotherhood or indulging in spiritual pride, I don't understand what
relevance it has.  There can certainly be found precedents for pride in the
Book of the Law, and I interpret Hubris (a Greek word, I don't know the
Sanskrit word you refer to) in a Thelemic context to mean one expects
everyone else to come leaping to one's truth as the only truth, when it's
really only one's truth and important more for that person than anyone else.
This is especially true below the abyss, where we can only reflect through
the lenses of self any truth we may have been privileged to experience.

I like that self-aggrandizement about un-self-aggrandizing bit, though.
That's quite spiffy.

> and any
further weaseling is to play a dangerous game with language. There's a
lovely Sanskrit word which I presently forget that parallels the Crowleyan
notion of the Black Brotherhood; roughly it means "spiritual pride" or, in
essence, self-aggrandizement about how un-self-aggrandizing one is.
Ultimately, it's just a particularly ridiculous form of the fear of death.

I enjoyed the engaging conversation, Eric.

93, 93/93

Bryan

I don't know why this message didn't post ~ it's the one in my "sent messages"
box but not the one that showed up on Yahoo.  I had no intent to simply repeat
Eric's post.  Let me try again.....

Hello and 93,

So are you saying Crowley wasn't still an egotistical bastard from after his
star sponge vision until the day he died?   ;-)

Across the abyss, opposites are resolved.  Words can not really express
anything about it with any clarity, as AC demonstrated with his Eight
Lectures on Yoga, if one considers Samadhi on All to be the mystical path
across the abyss .  Ego and non-ego become the same thing, and the same as
everything else, which is truly nothing (i.e. the 2=0 formula).  "Nothing
with twinkles - but what twinkles!"  I think that truly requires a "giving
up" of the ego as described by Crowley.  If you don't escape your ego, you
think your ego is everything, because that is all you saw when you attempted
to become one with everything.

>The caveat here is that the ego is not "given up" or "destroyed" in a
literal sense.

I still stand by that.  You don't lose your ego until your body dies.

>What ceases is the identification of the self (or star, in
Thelemic parlance) with the ego. The ego is only destroyed in the sense
that the illusion of its identity with the star is destroyed.

Tiphareth is the Personal Star, and is below the Abyss so therefore refers
to the individual.  It is also representative of the sphere of K&C of the
HGA.  Crowley speaks of the necessity of giving all of one's blood to the
cup of Babylon to become a star in the company of Heaven as an analogy for
crossing the Abyss.  Therefore, I would argue that before one crosses the
Abyss, the best representative cognizance of one's Star is the HGA.  The
whole trip of the HGA is to help one gain momentum to eventually cross the
Abyss, in one lifetime or another.  Upon returning as a Star in the Company
of Heaven, one emerges as an equal working partner to the HGA rather than an
inferior, and is cast into one of the lower 7 spheres.  Crowley was cast
into the sphere of Chesed to become the World Teacher.  Frater Achad
recognized himself as cast into the sphere of Malkuth.  There is a return
from beyond the Abyss, you don't stay there.  If there were not a return,
one would cease to exist entirely.  Or, from the Malkuthian perspective, the
body would die.  But there is a difference.  Crowley talks about the person
who has crossed the Abyss as having all his ducks in a row.  The function of
the ego post-abyss becomes one not unlike the function of the aspirant to
the HGA previously ~ the ego is now a tool, just like any other aspect of
the psyche, of the person who has crossed the Abyss.

>In eastern parlance, this is generally referred to as enlightenment. It
should be noted, however, that enlightenment is not an all or nothing
matter; there are various grades of enlightenment that could,

I have no disagreement there, but the question was originally asked about
the crossing of the Abyss, which is where my answer focused on.  The person
was concerned as to whether the Ego was aggrandized or given up.  My
argument is that it is given up, but that one returns to it.  If one doens't
give it up, then yes, one becomes a Black Brother and tends to aggrandize
their ego.  Either the ego is conceived in its proper relation and place
amongst all, as a tool, or the ego is conceived of as all because the Black
Brother cannot escape it upon crossing the Abyss.


>The idea that one can cross the abyss and retain the illusion of ego is,
however, pure nonsense.

One cannot retain the illusion of ego across the Abyss, but one cannot
return an ego-less shell and expect to show the glint of one's work to the
world.  In crossing the Abyss, when AC realized the role of Liber Al (whose
reception could be argued to mark him with the Grade of Magus, receiving the
word of the New Aeon), he used his ego to promote Thelema ~ what other
purpose of the Magus but to spread his word?  He was still Aleister Crowley
the man, but he was more than that, and the man / ego part was in proper
relation to the rest or he would not have accomplished the work he did
post-1904.

>The continued illusion of ego is, in that case, a
symptom of failure to actually cross the abyss -- by definition, "crossing
the abyss" is precisely the destruction of the ego-illusion

So what was Crowley after he crossed the Abyss?  An ego-less person?  He
certainly didn't lose any of his character (a vital aspect of ego).  He did
use it to attempt to further Thelema, but there could even be some question
made of how effective that was in light of his play against the norms of the
times (His cry, "The Christians to the Lions!" could certainly be considered
quite shocking today, not to mention back then!), especially when he wanted
more respect in the public eye in later life.

In the final analysis, I recognize you are entirely entitled to your
opinion, as I am to mine.  We don't have to agree, we can go with our
individual differences and that is one of the beautiful things about
Thelema.

As for the rest of this, unless you are suggesting I am part of the Black
Brotherhood or indulging in spiritual pride, I don't understand what
relevance it has.  There can certainly be found precedents for pride in the
Book of the Law, and I interpret Hubris (a Greek word, I don't know the
Sanskrit word you refer to) in a Thelemic context to mean one expects
everyone else to come leaping to one's truth as the only truth, when it's
really only one's truth and important more for that person than anyone else.
This is especially true below the abyss, where we can only reflect through
the lenses of self any truth we may have been privileged to experience.

I like that self-aggrandizement about un-self-aggrandizing bit, though.
That's quite spiffy.

> and any
further weaseling is to play a dangerous game with language. There's a
lovely Sanskrit word which I presently forget that parallels the Crowleyan
notion of the Black Brotherhood; roughly it means "spiritual pride" or, in
essence, self-aggrandizement about how un-self-aggrandizing one is.
Ultimately, it's just a particularly ridiculous form of the fear of death.

I enjoyed the engaging conversation, Eric.

93, 93/93

Bryan




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.

Would anyone be interested in discussing Liber Israfel? I haven't
much experience in invocations, so I thought I'd post. Line 18 has me
baffled; it seems to be a list of techniques, and not merely spoken
lines. Any help?

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

The "Sign of the Seal of Hermes" is *allegedly* a paper/ritual/something by
Crowley. Anyone have any information on its veracity or existence? Private
response is fine whether to prove or refute such existence.

Love is the law, love under will.
bishop
www.kindredx.net

joo castel-branco at jotacb2000@... wrote on 5/19/02 4:49 PM:

>
> Does anyone believe in God?

Belief implies faith and faith implies fiction. A symptom of frailty and
self deception if one is not careful. Reality can either be accepted or
denied. Denial is the basis of psychosis.  Freud has some very interesting
thoughts on God. Especially the loving and punishing father God that he
claims neurotics embrace.

> Well, God exists.
>
> It's the ZERO (0).

Well, ZERO (0) represents non-existence as a mathematical abstraction. In
fact, in science we see that physical non-existence is not possible. By that
I mean, matter, once destroyed is merely converted to energy and a pure
vacuum is not attainable. This is because subatomic matter 'appears' out of
the space-time continuum to fill the vacuums that we create. Even black
holes are not empty (ref. Hawking). While there is lot's of empty space, it
is really not empty. It is filled with electromagnetic energy or
gravitational fields or matter. Actually most of the empty space in the
universe is called plasma, the forth state of matter. Space is really not
empty at all, nor is it possible (so it seems) to make ZERO.

> Noboby can see it, nobody can ear it, nobody can feel it, nobody can talk with
> it, nobody can count on it,, but it exists.

Well, ZERO (0) means non-existence, not absence.

> There's always two questions:
>
> The first is: where do we come from?, the second is: where are we going?
>

The two basic questions are (if I recall Philosophy 101 correctly) :
1) Why is there something instead of nothing ?
2) Why is man good ?

Logic clearly eliminates some ideas about God since creating an idea to
explain our existence which itself cannot be explained is pointless. At
least that's the point of view that I've come to know and love. Reference
Sagan's "The Demon Haunted World."

And there's always Buddha. If god chooses to do nothing about human
suffering, then God is not good. If god is powerless against human
suffering, then god is not God.

Either way there is no good God. And that's just the very simplest logic
based on factual observation here on Earth. It gets a lot more complex when
my Mormon neighbor gets involved. Eeeks.

SP

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

>  Cavalorn:
>
>> 'actual' workings? This is a matter of faith, not of anything so
>> testable as human biology. ;)
>
>   * Faith? Has Crowleyan Thelema already arrived at the advanced
> state of decomposition in which faith is required to proceed? I think

I don't recall this conversation having anything to do with Thelema itself,
but with the nature of a particular sex magical paradigm. But please do
correct me if I am in error here.  Maybe I missed a post or something.

Love is the law, love under will.
bishop
www.kindredx.net

93 hal,

With all due respect, and without prejudice...

...Until you and the boy's club at UR-OTO feel free to upload all, and I do
mean ALL, appendant Rites of whatever O.T.O.'s you claim heirship from, and
not JUST the "Caliphate" ones, your club is still just a bunch of crybabies
that could not hang.  Or does this a deeper issue with you folks?  Could
you possibly recognize there are better heirs to the throne, and this does
not sit well with you, and better to destroy something you can't have??

I do thank Jeroen for having his site pass protected though, and might ask
Santos do the same on his.  Were I to ask nicely. :o)

Honestly I don't really care if you like me and those that are trying to
accomplish the Work.  You may even have a deep seated hatred for some in
this Order, however it is not a great step to have a basic level of Respect
for the needs of privacy to the Ritual Work.  Why, I know many people in
the Greek system at the University level who seem to approach Ritual Work,
and the secrecy needs with a whole lot better Adulthood than some of your
associates in the United Rites.

Then again, maybe asking for the least bit of true Occult Respect, and
brotherhood from you guys is harder than asking your average Roman Catholic
Priest not to plug altar boy's holes.

Agape,
James

93  93/93


At 12:02 AM 7/13/02 -0400, you wrote:
>93
>
>indeed -- especially for those who do not yet know how to coagula the solve
>at
>
>http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeroen93/
>
>:-D
>
>(multi-national rules, mono-natzis suck :)
>
>Love is the law, love under will.
>
>Hal
>
>In a message dated 7/12/02 10:36:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>bloodofenoch@... writes:
> > Wow!  De Natura Deorum is super cool.  Thanks for posting this.
> >
> > bloodofenoch
> >
> > --- In thelema93-l@y..., "Frater NEMO" <iopan@i...> wrote:
> > >Just to let everyone know that the degree rituals and instructions
> > are once more
> > >available at
> > >http://www.iopan.hpg.com.br
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >http://www.ieg.com.br
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>thelema93-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- In thelema93-l@y..., "hiddenseeker93" <hiddenseeker93@y...> wrote:
> Does anyone know where I can find an online copy of the A.'.A.'.
> Neophyte Initiation Ritual 671, "Liber ThROA" (not Liber Pyramidos)?

Try this place:

http://www.bapho.net/arhcives/

All best,

Kjetil

James, oh James:

Boy, when are you going to grow a little older?
All this time, and the same bla-bla. How boring.

>I do thank Jeroen for having his site pass protected though, and might ask
>Santos do the same on his.  Were I to ask nicely. :o)

Just tell me, pee-wee: what have I got to do with it?

M.'., a Master

--- In thelema93-l@y..., "pedicabo_ego" <aba@s...> wrote:
> --- In thelema93-l@y..., "hiddenseeker93" <hiddenseeker93@y...>
wrote:
> > Does anyone know where I can find an online copy of the A.'.A.'.
> > Neophyte Initiation Ritual 671, "Liber ThROA" (not Liber
Pyramidos)?
>
> Try this place:
>
> http://www.bapho.net/arhcives/
>
> All best,
>
> Kjetil

Try rather:

http://www.bapho.net/archives/C/C0000054/C0000054.html

This is the same ritual you once told me to remove
from an OTO body site on the grounds it was not for
publication, right?

regards,
Kevin aka dancingstar