Stan,

If you have the Surplus catalog handy, could you email me the ordering
information and short description of the motor?  I don't have the
catalog or any of the ordering particulars.   BTW does Surplus say
anything about where or how they will ship?  I'm in Canada, and the only
decent way to ship small items is via parcel post. Some companies simply
won't ship that way.

Thanks.

Myron

Regarding the patterns of my skeleton clocks -- They're done with a process
I call PMCNC or "Poor Man's CNC".  The parts are drafted using a CAD program
(I like Deltacad), printed to scale and then pasted onto the brass.  Then
the parts are sawed out with a jewelers saw.  Sounds laborious, but it's
really not too. These little saws cut pretty fast.  The laborious part comes
when you have to file, sand, and polish the plates.  A job I don't like, but
I expect you'd have to do it even if your CNC wasn't of the poor-man
variety.

This process is accurate enough to produce not merely ornamental parts, such
as skeleton clock plates, but also working parts such as strike levers,
cams, pendulum cocks, clicks and so on.  This is by far-and-away the best
way to make working parts for a clock. You can make really small  parts this
way, I've found.  You can see a bunch of parts made this way on my websites.

Thanks for your kind words and your encouragement.

John B. Shadle, CMC
Online Clockbuilding:
http://geocities.com/jshadle.geo/online_clock_building
http://geocities.com/jshadle.geo/

Hi Guys

Is there anyway to get brass to STAY real shiny? I've got the normal
cream stuff which claims to add a silicone protection layer but after
some handling for a few days the shine is gone and it starts getting
blotchy. I once sprayed a plastic coating on a brass piece which
worked for a year or so but after that it got black spots. Is this an
unsolvable problem or is there a good solution? Thanks.

Jim
http://www.emachineshop.com

Jim Lewis wrote:

> Hi Guys
>
> Is there anyway to get brass to STAY real shiny? I've got the normal
> cream stuff which claims to add a silicone protection layer but after
> some handling for a few days the shine is gone and it starts getting
> blotchy. I once sprayed a plastic coating on a brass piece which
> worked for a year or so but after that it got black spots. Is this an
> unsolvable problem or is there a good solution? Thanks.
>
> Jim
>

Don't know if it's good, but there is an old solution -- the musical instument
lacquer used by manufacturers and restorers.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 20:17 01/07/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi Guys
>
>Is there anyway to get brass to STAY real shiny? I've got the normal
>cream stuff which claims to add a silicone protection layer but after
>some handling for a few days the shine is gone and it starts getting
>blotchy. I once sprayed a plastic coating on a brass piece which
>worked for a year or so but after that it got black spots. Is this an
>unsolvable problem or is there a good solution? Thanks.
>
>Jim

Problem is that the sweat you deposit in fingermarks etc. is acidic &
attacks the surface of the metal. You can buy suitable lacquers from
suppliers of clockmaking materials that will protect the surface - if the
part is going to be handled often, you may need something heavier though.
Clean up the brass so that it is free of all fingermarks etc. before
lacquering.

Regards,
Tony

Hi,

Glad everything works.

I've had the best luck getting end mills from MSC (local store here
and off the web - http://www.mscdirect.com). The solid carbide ones
are always on sale and seem to cut forever.

Have you gone through a set up procedure for your mill? There are
lots of past postings on how to "wright" your mill, which is probably
not square and plumb out of the box. Nick has lots of pictures on his
site on how to indicate the various axes. Till you've checked
everything, you won't get accurate results.

My 2 cents worth.

Happy cutting!

Joel

Hi,

The best luck I've had with watch and clock parts is polishing and
buffing with jeweler's rouge. It doesn't stop the return of
oxidation, but the metal is mirror smooth so it looks good (i.e. no
surface roughness shows up when the patina forms).

Joel

Polishing with car wax (Carnuba) helps but won't allow much handling... some
clock repairmen use this as an alternative to lacquering.

Dave


> Hi,
>
> The best luck I've had with watch and clock parts is polishing and
> buffing with jeweler's rouge. It doesn't stop the return of
> oxidation, but the metal is mirror smooth so it looks good (i.e. no
> surface roughness shows up when the patina forms).
>
> Joel
>
>
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   taigtools@eGroups.com
>
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>
>
>
> Let the chips fly!
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

The classic finish used by the old instrument makers is to polish or buff
ti a high polish,and then apply a hot laquer finish.  Do not touch the
visible surfaces after polishing, for all the reasons others have given.
The special laquer is then applied to the heated part - the finish is
dependant on the fact that it is heated.  There are several colour
variations available in the laquer ranging from a pale straw yellow to one
that gives a dark golden almost red/brown colour.   I will enquire tomorrow
at the W.A. SMEE meeting for any additional information, - there are people
who have done most things in that group!

To forestall the inevitable question -where to get the laquer, - I don't
know, but would suggest serious antique restorers suppliers, or as
previously.  suggested clock makers suppliers.

Jim Gregg

W. Australia

At 10:56 PM 7/1/01 +0100, you wrote:
>At 20:17 01/07/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>>Hi Guys
>>
>>Is there anyway to get brass to STAY real shiny? I've got the normal
>>cream stuff which claims to add a silicone protection layer but after
>>some handling for a few days the shine is gone and it starts getting
>>blotchy. I once sprayed a plastic coating on a brass piece which
>>worked for a year or so but after that it got black spots. Is this an
>>unsolvable problem or is there a good solution? Thanks.
>>
>>Jim
>
>Problem is that the sweat you deposit in fingermarks etc. is acidic &
>attacks the surface of the metal. You can buy suitable lacquers from
>suppliers of clockmaking materials that will protect the surface - if the
>part is going to be handled often, you may need something heavier though.
>Clean up the brass so that it is free of all fingermarks etc. before
>lacquering.
>
>Regards,
>Tony
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   taigtools@eGroups.com
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>
>
>
>Let the chips fly!
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

My thanks to all who replied - this is a great group.
    I did try to get a catalog from the now no longer mysterious MSC
but their site didn't seen to have a place to request one. I did send them
an email to customer service. Has anyone received a catalog recently?


Peter Tucker
Roomboxes Etc
3675 West 29 Ave
Vancouver B.C. Canada V6S 1T5
phone 604 224 3928
fax 604 224 11111
peter@...
www.roomboxes.com

Thanks, Jim, You're a prince.

jp

.... ripping my arm off.
>
> If your only doing tiny things, do what I initially did which is use a
> 1/12th horsepower motor. Less chance of ripping anything and since the
> Taig headstock uses ball bearings, the starting friction is negligible.
>
> > **The 3 jaw chuck seems to be aluminum, not steel, and quite a
> > flesh-eater.  I'll buzz my nose off on it.
>
> Use the collets, small faceplate or the screw on adapters.
>
> > **Cosmetics, it cannot be denied, are an element of fancy machine
> > tools, and the Sherline appears to be prettied up better. Wrong?
>
> Nope, Sherline is a bit prettier. That doesn't matter to me personally.
>  
> W.R. Smith wrote quite a bit on adapting the Sherline for horology and
> in Home Shop Machinist there was a series on adapting the Taig for the
> same thing. John Shadle, whose links you can find on Nick Carter's
> pages, makes extensive use of a Taig for clockmaking purposes.
>
> Of course for REALLY small, you could use a Clisby.
>
> http://pages.prodigy.net/fugu/metal.html
>
> Jim Eckman
>
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at
http://webmail.netscape.com/

You'll probably get a quick reply from Customer Service (they're usually very
good), but if not, try this URL:

http://www.mscdirect.com/CdCatalogRequest.process

After logging in you can request the "Big Book".

Daniel

At 08:16 PM 07/01/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>My thanks to all who replied - this is a great group.
>   I did try to get a catalog from the now no longer mysterious MSC
>but their site didn't seen to have a place to request one. I did send them
>an email to customer service. Has anyone received a catalog recently?
>
>
>Peter Tucker
>Roomboxes Etc
>3675 West 29 Ave
>Vancouver B.C. Canada V6S 1T5
>phone 604 224 3928
>fax 604 224 11111
>peter@...
>www.roomboxes.com
>
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   taigtools@eGroups.com
>
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>
>
>
>Let the chips fly!
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
"Being humble is why I'm a great person."
Daniel A. Segel
dsegel@...

On Sat, 30 Jun 2001, Alison & Jim Gregg wrote:

> Sorry to be difficult here but Tungsten metal is NOT particularly
> difficult to cut or machine!!!!!!!!!!  At least in the more commonly
> available forms.

Dang!  Now I'm wondering what I have out in my shop!

>     Now Tungsten CARBIDE - what the cutting tools are made of, is
> something else!  Most of the comments re Tungsten that I've seen so
> far are clearly referring to Tungsten carbide, or confusing the
> Carbide with Tungsten metal.  How do I know this - well I spent about
> 6 months working with the stuff establishing a small manufacturing set
> up for a client who was custom making competition darts,-( Darts as in
> throwing at a dartboard).

This helps, actually.  Ever since dulling all my tools, I've been
wondering how the @#$%@#$ you put a knurl on tungsten darts.  Unless all
these darts had ground knurls on them, I couldn't fathom a way.  It would
make sense I was looking at a different material.

Tom

At 06:11 02/07/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>This helps, actually.  Ever since dulling all my tools, I've been
>wondering how the @#$%@#$ you put a knurl on tungsten darts.  Unless all
>these darts had ground knurls on them, I couldn't fathom a way.  It would
>make sense I was looking at a different material.

Depleted uranium perhaps...? ;-)

Regards,
Tony

Hi jim,
        may I add, for handling brass, a pair of white cotton gloves,
freshly washed are ideal for handling metal that is easily marked
from fingers.  The gloves need to be washed regularly, or the sweat
will leach through.  Other than this use a wooden jig for handling
the components.  Not sure if this IS related to your question, but
probably more my interpretation of the thread.

                  Having Fun

                               Joules

In a message dated 7/1/2001 1:17:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jimlewis@... writes:


> Is there anyway to get brass to STAY real shiny? I've got the normal
> cream stuff which claims to add a silicone protection layer but after
> some handling for a few days the shine is gone and it starts getting
> blotchy. I once sprayed a plastic coating on a brass piece which
> worked for a year or so but after that it got black spots. Is this an
> unsolvable problem or is there a good solution? Thanks.
>

Jim,
This is a good one, but you did not say if the brass needs to take wear? In
the clock
business and watches, parts that are not wear items are gold plated and they
have looked good for years, High dollar clocks like the Atoms are gold plated
and in some cases last some 40 or so years, I had a brass lamp my Grandmother
gave me and I wanted to restore it so after careful polishing I coated it
with clear lacquer and it has lasted some 15 years, but the clear coat did
cut some of the shine. For auto uses
some parts are electrostatic powder coated and it wears like iron, but this
is not a choice for the home machinist due to cost of tools, your best bet is
polish it very well and clean it very well and coat it very well under clean,
dry average temp and it should last better than one year, but the adherence
is what keeps it from oxidation. Lacquer
is a better choice than plastic type coatings IMHO.         Chris of
Bradenton FLA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 11:42 PM 01/07/2001 +0000, you wrote:
>I've had the best luck getting end mills from MSC (local store here
>and off the web - http://www.mscdirect.com). The solid carbide ones
>are always on sale and seem to cut forever.
>
>Have you gone through a set up procedure for your mill? There are
>lots of past postings on how to "wright" your mill, which is probably
>not square and plumb out of the box. Nick has lots of pictures on his
>site on how to indicate the various axes. Till you've checked
>everything, you won't get accurate results.

Hi,

I'm going to try a couple of laces recommended to me here in Toronto before
I go to MSC.  The exchange on the dollar is a killer.  I've got my mill set
up relatively close.  I'm going back to Edmonton later this month so I'll
grab some of my precision measuring equipment out of storage while I'm so I
can set it up more accurately.


Al
http://members.home.net/schoepp4887/home.htm


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks to all for the great answers on polishing. I'll try the white-
gloves, heat, and laquer approach.

Jim
http://www.emachineshop.com

I've never been able to work on a clock while wearing gloves.  I last
about 3 minutes, then off they come.  What I do is first clean the
parts in clock cleaning solution (ammonia + detergent), rinse without
handling, dry without handling, then I spray them with Pledge and
wipe it off.  It's not 100% but it sure helps with fingerprints.  A
trick I learned from the Clocksmiths list.  Washing hands frequently
helps too.

John

>From: Myron Gochnauer <goch@...>
>Reply-To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
>To: taigtools@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [taigtools] Treadmill motor from Surplus
>Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 05:57:51 -0300
>
>Stan,
>
>If you have the Surplus catalog handy, could you email me the ordering
>information and short description of the motor?  I don't have the
>catalog or any of the ordering particulars.   BTW does Surplus say
>anything about where or how they will ship?  I'm in Canada, and the only
>decent way to ship small items is via parcel post. Some companies simply
>won't ship that way.

Princess Auto have locations in many Canadian towns and have treadmill
motors at $30 or less. A speed controller will be more expensive if you
don't have the expertise to build one yourself - I passed the motor spec on
to KB Electronics and asked for their recommendation.
US suppliers will ship UPS  to Canada without any problem, but may charge up
to $40 for handling the customs paperwork. Free trade,eh!
>
>Thanks.
>
>Myron

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

>Princess Auto have locations in many Canadian towns and have treadmill
>motors at $30 or less.

They're actually a good source if you know something about motors.  However,
last time I was in Princess Auto looking at motors I counted *five* different
treadmill motor bins:

One of them is a large open-frame AC motor, which is not controllable for
speed.

One is a beefy-looking 120 VDC 6 A permanent-magnet DC motor with 17 mm
shaft and ball bearings at both ends - this is probably the equal of what
Surplus Center is selling, or even better.  I expect this would make a very
good Taig drive motor.  This is $30

One is a smaller 90 VDC motor from GS Electric rated at 6000 RPM (no current
rating).  This has a ball bearing at the shaft end but a sleeve bearing at
the closed end.  When run at full speed, the closed end gets hot pretty
fast.  I don't know if it's a bearing problem or something else, but I
wouldn't run this one at high speed for long.  It's clearly going to put out
less power than the one above in any case, but it's a very good deal - it's
$10 normally and currently on sale for $5.

Finally, there's a yet-smaller treadmill motor with two sleeve bearings.  I
think this one's more suitable for gerbil treadmills, and wouldn't try using
it on a Taig at all.  It's $15 or $20 and appeared in two different bins with
different prices for what seems to be identical motors.

>US suppliers will ship UPS  to Canada without any problem, but may charge up
>to $40 for handling the customs paperwork. Free trade,eh!

Don't ever use UPS for surface shipments to Canada - that's the conclusion
of many people.  You'll find yourself dinged for a "brokerage" charge that
no one told you was part of the shipping costs, and you won't find out until
your item is sitting in UPS's warehouse.  That's in addition to anything
that the shipper might charge extra.

         Dave

Myron;

Sorry to be slow getting this info back,  had to do an emergency trip to one
of our data centers, left Sunday and just got home.  I can't find my Surplus
Center catalog, darn it, so here is the contact info from the Sci.Electronics
FAQ for them:

Surplus Center
1015 West "O" Street
P.O. Box 82209
Lincoln, NE 68501-2209
Tel: 800-488-3407 (Order Only)
Tel: 402-474-4055
Tel: 402-474-5198

I hope this is use to you, if I find the catalog I'll pass on part numbers and
any info on Canadian shipment I can find.

Stan

Myron Gochnauer wrote:

> Stan,
>
> If you have the Surplus catalog handy, could you email me the ordering
> information and short description of the motor?  I don't have the
> catalog or any of the ordering particulars.   BTW does Surplus say
> anything about where or how they will ship?  I'm in Canada, and the only
> decent way to ship small items is via parcel post. Some companies simply
> won't ship that way.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Myron
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   taigtools@eGroups.com
>
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>
> Let the chips fly!
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hi, I´m new here!!

About making gears using PMCNC.....:-)

How about making a small shaper/router table for a dremel with the
hole where the cutter protrudes from the table being substansialy
larger than the cutter diameter and internaly treaded.
You could then screw a liner down into the hole and this liner would
protrude above the table an distance that is equal to the thicnes of
a template wich size is reduced compared to the end part by the same
amount that the liner is protruding outside the radius of the cutter.
That way you could "mass-produce" gears for your clocks simply by
attaching a brass plate to the top of a template and lett ripp, with
no need for extensive finishing of the gears afterwards.....

Just a tought!!

                                                          San






--- In taigtools@y..., "John Shadle" <ticktock@s...> wrote:
> Regarding the patterns of my skeleton clocks -- They're done with a
process
> I call PMCNC or "Poor Man's CNC".  The parts are drafted using a
CAD program
> (I like Deltacad), printed to scale and then pasted onto the
brass.  Then
> the parts are sawed out with a jewelers saw.  Sounds laborious, but
it's
> really not too. These little saws cut pretty fast.  The laborious
part comes
> when you have to file, sand, and polish the plates.  A job I don't
like, but
> I expect you'd have to do it even if your CNC wasn't of the poor-man
> variety.
>
> This process is accurate enough to produce not merely ornamental
parts, such
> as skeleton clock plates, but also working parts such as strike
levers,
> cams, pendulum cocks, clicks and so on.  This is by far-and-away
the best
> way to make working parts for a clock. You can make really small
parts this
> way, I've found.  You can see a bunch of parts made this way on my
websites.
>
> Thanks for your kind words and your encouragement.
>
> John B. Shadle, CMC
> Online Clockbuilding:
> http://geocities.com/jshadle.geo/online_clock_building
> http://geocities.com/jshadle.geo/

Hi all,

I'm interested in cnc milling (to make small plastics moulds etc),
but haven't done any.

Are there any major advantages/disadvantages between
the Taig and MaxNC makes?

http://www.maxnc.com
http://www.taig.com

Any other cnc millers in this price range?

--
    ___                                           ___
   /  /\                                         /  /\
  /  /__\                                       /  /\/\
/__/   / Russell Shaw, B.Eng, M.Eng(Research) /__/\/\/
\  \  /  Victoria, Australia, Down-Under      \  \/\/
  \__\/                                         \__\/

'Tis sad to say but before I caught on I was 'dinged' about 60% of the
original cost of a small item I ordered from UK.

Since then I have insisted, overland parcel post mail, marked as a gift
from the shipper in plain wrapping. Sounds kinky but in truth it stops
your stuff from getting stalled in a warehouse from which you have to
ransom the product.

If the supplier objects, then NO SALE.

The usual solution for me is try to find a Canadian supplier. Up 'til
now none of the provinces have decided on inter commerce duties and
taxes.

Gordo Canada

Is anyone using 1/4" HSS toolbit to turn wood? I'm wondering whether it
would be feasible to construct wood-turning "chisels" using 1/4" tool
bits as the business end. I've turn wood in the normal metal-turning
way, but here I'm thinking about wood-turning style, with the cutting
tool held in the hand and braced on the tool rest.

Does anyone have any experience with making such tools?  It seems like a
waste of money to buy expensive woodturning tools with non-replaceable
cutting edges or tips: eventually they'll wear/sharpen down to the point
where they should be replaced, and then you'll have to discard a fair
bit of overpriced steel-and-wood that should outlast us all.

Myron

--- In taigtools@y..., Myron Gochnauer <goch@u...> wrote:
> Is anyone using 1/4" HSS toolbit to turn wood? I'm wondering whether
it would be feasible to construct wood-turning "chisels" using 1/4"
tool bits as the business end. I've turn wood in the normal
metal-turning way, but here I'm thinking about wood-turning style,
with the cutting tool held in the hand and braced on the tool rest.


::::> Myron, you would be better off with HSS Drill Rod, rather than
1/4" X 1/4" [square] tool bits. If you have knowledge of metal work
HSS Drill rod can be made into great wood working tools for your
lathe.

I have used drill Rod for several of my "micro" gouges and Skew Point
Chisels, the provide the needed SHANK that I set into custom turned
handles: I use several different woods for handles "what ever you have
most of"

> Does anyone have any experience with making such tools?  It seems
like a waste of money to buy expensive woodturning tools with
non-replaceable cutting edges or tips: eventually they'll wear/sharpen
down to the point where they should be replaced, and then you'll have
to discard a fair bit of overpriced steel-and-wood that should outlast
us all.

:::::> you are right the prices that you find on wood turning tools is
"up there" and I think most is jsut "names" rather than really better.

:::> I made a very nice bowl gouge out of some 7/16" dia. HSS drill
rod, cut the "cove" out with a 3" X 1/16" High Speed grinding/cutting
Wheel, the total time to grind out the cove was about half and hour,
the metal never got "too warm" and the profile of the gouge matches
the expensive "name" gouges at 40-50 dollar range! I think the metal
cost me about 3.00 cut off a 36" long rod.

Hope that helps you,

phil

A woodturning friend of mine, who is a "pro", uses a small couge in the
toolpost of his Sherline - sort of the reverse of what you are asking...He
also uses a 1/4" toolbit set high on the sherline, so that it takes a
tangential cut (sort of hard to describe.)
I think that the short answer is "yes" as long as you get all the rake
angles right.
felice@... is Felice Luftschein and Nicholas Carter. See our web pages
http://www.cartertools.com/nfhome.html

----- Original Message -----
From: "Myron Gochnauer" <goch@...>
To: <taigtools@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 5:57 PM
Subject: [taigtools] toolbits for wood


> Is anyone using 1/4" HSS toolbit to turn wood? I'm wondering whether it
> would be feasible to construct wood-turning "chisels" using 1/4" tool
> bits as the business end. I've turn wood in the normal metal-turning
> way, but here I'm thinking about wood-turning style, with the cutting
> tool held in the hand and braced on the tool rest.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with making such tools?  It seems like a
> waste of money to buy expensive woodturning tools with non-replaceable
> cutting edges or tips: eventually they'll wear/sharpen down to the point
> where they should be replaced, and then you'll have to discard a fair
> bit of overpriced steel-and-wood that should outlast us all.
>
> Myron
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   taigtools@eGroups.com
>
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: taigtools-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>
>
>
> Let the chips fly!
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

I had a look at a couple of other small lathes when I visited Chronos, a
very nice engineering supplier in St. Albans, UK, this morning. One was a
Gate Combi 218 for 375 UK pounds and the other a Unimat 4 for 299 pounds.
Compared to the Taig, they were crap - flimsy construction and the controls
felt rather rough.

Leon

--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Tel: +44 1327 359058
Email:leon_heller@...
My web page: http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

I've added some notes about using my Taig lathe for fly cutting and holding
a DTI with the toolpost to my web site (see sig.). I'll be adding more tips
and techniques as I come up with them.

Please let me know if there is anything wrong with my approach. It's many
years since I've done any machining, and I didn't do very much of it then,
anyway.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Tel: +44 1327 359058
Email:leon_heller@...
My web page: http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.