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Jack the Condo Flipper.   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #4126 of 10847 |
RE: [swp_usa] Re: Jack the Condo Flipper.

Walter: "Another odd thing about the SWP was the extreme hostility it
had toward the idea of home ownership for its members, though
the older working class cadres all owned their own homes. The
idea they had was something like "a rolling stone gathers no
conservatism".



Well, yes. But I think this hostility was based on two things.



One was ideological: a confusion between what you propose as a social
solution for society, and what you may be inclined to do as an individual in
actually existing capitalist America. I was reminded of this back in the
1980s when Doug Jenness wrote a series of articles in The Militant on the
housing question, based largely on Engels's wonderful pamphlet on that
issue. Doug argued that workers were crazy to buy houses. His argument was
not based on the practical economics of home ownership (e.g. the tax
deductions for mortgage interest Walter refers to - something we don't have
in Canada), but rather on the Marxist critique of private home ownership,
and the need for social housing, to be regarded as a social right not a
property right. Great argument, but as advice for individual workers it
substituted abstract theory ("program") for real life realities.



So instead, we were fed a lot of stuff about Cannon's (and the IWW's)
"footloose revolutionaries." Great for the YSA, but not too applicable to
many older party members, especially those (few in number - wonder why?)
with kids.



Doug's and Engels's solution to the housing question was appropriate matter
for discussion, proposals and action within the broad labour, social and
political movements. But most of us are personally obliged to fend for
ourselves in the rough and tumble of the present - so we buy personal real
estate.



The other factor - and this was Doug's and the SWP's real concern, I'm sure
(as Walter notes) -- was that they wanted a membership easily transferable
at the leadership's whim. If you own a home, you tend to sink roots in your
community, and even your workplace. You may even risk getting involved in
local mass struggles and beoming a recognized leader among your coworkers
and within your community. You might even begin to think there was a life
outside the vanguard party. Can't have that now, can we?



Richard

_,___



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:53 pm

rfidler2300
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Message #4126 of 10847 |
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Btw, for comparison's sake, here is what a 2-bedroom cooperative went for in 1993 in the West Village, according to the NY Times: WEST VILLAGE...
lproyect
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Jul 24, 2007
10:55 pm

Walter: "Another odd thing about the SWP was the extreme hostility it had toward the idea of home ownership for its members, though the older working class...
Richard Fidler
rfidler2300
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Jul 24, 2007
11:54 pm

Richard, you are 100% correct the way you describe this question. I WISH I had bought a home after getting a job in 1976 instead of 10 years later! I'm glad I...
David Walters
tialsedov
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Jul 25, 2007
12:51 am

Richard wrote: So instead, we were fed a lot of stuff about Cannon's (and the IWW's) "footloose revolutionaries." Great for the YSA, but not too applicable to ...
Robert Lewis
rmlewis206
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Jul 25, 2007
4:14 am

-Walter wrote: "Now, the SWP charges $10.00 to attend memorial meetings for their deceased members." Please Walter, I beg you, tell me you made that up! Not...
Robert Lewis
rmlewis206
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Jul 25, 2007
4:07 am

I like the idea of a sliding scale for admission to memorial meetings, going from say 50 cents to $100.00 for the real exclusive ones--and maybe they'd throw...
Mark Lause
m_lause.geo
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Jul 25, 2007
6:33 am

... small three-bedroom Chicago apartment located at 909 E. 55th Street, on the South Side. Jack was with Betsey back then. He was always physically fit....
Philip Ferguson
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Jul 25, 2007
7:00 am

... True. On occasion, however, I have seen people refer to him as the "one-armed bandit," which I feel is inappropriate (to say the least). Adam L...
cleon42@...
cleon42
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Jul 25, 2007
2:22 pm

This is very much the case. What the SWP leadership wanted was that the only think you have in which is stable and permanent in your life is the SWP, the...
Walter Lippmann
walterx
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Jul 25, 2007
12:16 am

Since mortgage payments might be somewhat larger than rent payments, until you get that income tax deduction, that would be another reason for the SWP not to...
Walter Lippmann
walterx
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Jul 25, 2007
12:54 am

In the USA, the deductibility of mortgage interest means that a great many Americans are over-mortgaged and, as David points out, and faced with personal...
Richard Fidler
rfidler2300
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Jul 25, 2007
2:51 am

Tragically, I am really not making that up. It's obscene. It's vulgar. But it's true. Walter =================================================== ROBERT LEWIS...
Walter Lippmann
walterx
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Jul 25, 2007
4:38 am

what do you expect from "trot rot" Aron Pieman Kay http://www.pieman.org check out GIULIANI TOILET PAPER (http://www.pieman.org/giulianitoiletpaper.htm) ... ...
ARON KAY
pieman424
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Jul 25, 2007
4:40 am

The tax rate on capital gains is a mere 10%. Which on the scale of $1.8M, is casi nada. Walter ================================ WALTER LIPPMANN ...
Walter Lippmann
walterx
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Jul 25, 2007
4:49 am

Ah, so here we have the condo that they bought with money from the Anchor Foundation. When Louis posted the url for those accounts and I mentioned that Jack...
Philip Ferguson
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Jul 25, 2007
6:21 am

Condo means condo, all right, but before we piranhas get too ravenous, perhaps we should consider another possibility. The SWP (and similar outfits) have a...
Richard Fidler
rfidler2300
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Jul 25, 2007
12:04 pm

Richard Fidler wrote, "we should consider another possibility. The SWP (and similar outfits) have a well-known tendency to equate 'professional revolutionary' ...
Mark Lause
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Jul 25, 2007
1:04 pm

... – to ... go to ... It's conceivable, even likely, that the apartment was owned by the party and not by them. That being said, there is a huge element of ...
lproyect
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Jul 25, 2007
2:31 pm

The thing about this one Richard it that it appears to be the one purchased with Anchor Foundation funds - the same funds that were used to give J and M-A...
Philip Ferguson
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Jul 25, 2007
10:41 pm

Phil, Rather than put such a negative spin on these things, maybe "condo" is just Alwato or Esperanto for "new national office." ML . ...
Mark Lause
m_lause.geo
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Jul 25, 2007
1:16 pm

Louis wrote: "Out of the blue, he told me that he heard that I had bought a fancy new stereo system. At the time, I just smiled and shrugged my shoulders....
acpollack2@...
acpollack2
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Jul 25, 2007
2:49 pm

LOL. That's what I was also thinking. Jack - Lou. Old chap. Is that hi-fi or stereophonic system that you have? I am looking for speaker with authentic...
Erik Toren
eriktoren
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Jul 25, 2007
2:52 pm

Yes, Lou, you could have helped Jack with his choice of music system. As it is, the new loft owners say they are "adding six or so wireless speakers, 'a nice...
Richard Fidler
rfidler2300
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Jul 25, 2007
3:18 pm

... engaged in a ... Self-aggrandizement is not exactly the word I'd use myself. But we are talking about somebody who has a typical upper middle-class...
lproyect
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Jul 25, 2007
3:45 pm

There are several very good biographies of Daniel Deleon. The Socialist Labor Party had been around, in one form or another, for years before it recruited...
Mark Lause
m_lause.geo
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Jul 25, 2007
5:32 pm

... talking about somebody who has a typical upper middle-class lifestyle, like doctors or lawyers, but without putting in the hours. As a Marxmail subscriber...
Philip Ferguson
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Jul 25, 2007
11:08 pm

About 15 years ago I turned up at an old mate's house to say hello. I was living overseas and hadn't seen him for nearly a decade and he had been forbidden to...
Philip Ferguson
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Jul 26, 2007
12:21 am

... in a quest for material self-aggrandizement. I am sure Barnes has a much more exalted image of his role in history. I see no contradiction between the two...
Philip Ferguson
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Jul 25, 2007
11:08 pm

... effect or both, but it is interesting to note. And that's where I think the comparison lies. While we're all having fun right now about Barnes' exalted...
Philip Ferguson
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Jul 25, 2007
11:39 pm

Or he was about to get "the party" to buy him one. P. ________________________________ From: swp_usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:swp_usa@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf...
Philip Ferguson
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Jul 25, 2007
10:44 pm
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