I am here and looking forward to getting started.
Joan
----- Original Message -----
From: <suth_to_aus@yahoogroups.com>
To: <suth_to_aus@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:34 AM
Subject: [suth_to_aus] Digest Number 1


> There is 1 message in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Welcome
>    From: Chris Stokes
>
>
> Message
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> 1. Welcome
>    Posted by: "Chris Stokes" chris-stokes@... chris.stokes
>    Date: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:10 am ((PDT))
>
> Hi Jenelle
>
> Testing that you receive this okay via your new list.  Can you
> reply?
>
> Chris
>
> Messages in this topic (1)
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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--- In suth_to_aus@yahoogroups.com, "Joan Currie" <jocurrie@...>
wrote:
>
> I am here and looking forward to getting started.
> Joan

What would you like to start with Joan, I'm currently at the family
history centre, and we only have dialup at the present.  Do you want
me to include whee to get BDM's from and which State, Census (as a
general rule, CENSUS NOT KEPT), but 1828, and 1841 for New South
Wales, Shipping sites,etc.
Jenelle.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <suth_to_aus@yahoogroups.com>
> To: <suth_to_aus@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:34 AM
> Subject: [suth_to_aus] Digest Number 1
>
>
> > There is 1 message in this issue.
> >
> > Topics in this digest:
> >
> > 1. Welcome
> >    From: Chris Stokes
> >
> >
> > Message
> >
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
> > 1. Welcome
> >    Posted by: "Chris Stokes" chris-stokes@... chris.stokes
> >    Date: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:10 am ((PDT))
> >
> > Hi Jenelle
> >
> > Testing that you receive this okay via your new list.  Can you
> > reply?
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > Messages in this topic (1)
> >
______________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > Yahoo! Groups Links
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
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>

Hi everyone

My interest is in Donald Munro and Georginia Mackay of Armadale and to
get the ball rolling about their adventures in Australia, here are
some notes about what I have found out about them.

Donald Munro

Born 12 August 1801 Armadale Parish of Farr Sutherlandshire died 1869
Prahran Victoria

married 29 January 1826 Braetongue  Sutherlandshire
Georgina Ann Scobie Mackay
born 1804 Parish of Tongue  Sutherlandshire died 1889 North Carlton
Victoria


.....29th. July 1854 the entire family was on the "Hornet" which
sailed from Liverpool the next day, August 1st, arriving at Geelong,
after an 81-day voyage on October 23rd. 1854. .
On arriving at Geelong the new colonists were required to seek
employment as part of their contract and these details were recorded
by the Victorian Colonial Secretary's Office . Within a few days of
their arrival John, Lexy and Catherine had been taken into employment.

Donald 52 Ag labourer Sutherland Presbyterian, read and write disposed
6 Nov. Also Georgina 50, and Jessie 13 same details. On own account to
Geelong

Alexia 18 Domestic servant, Sutherland, Presbyterian read only to Mrs.
A McCullum, Market Square 30 Oct £20, 3 months and Catherine 16
Domestic Servant, Sutherland, Presbyterian read only to James Fait Gt
Malop St 30 Oct £15, 3 months

392 Munro, John 27 Ag Labourer from Renfrew Presbyterian read and
write, 31 Oct to Timothy McCarthy Ryansford £52 3 months.

The other members of the party were recorded as follows: -
82 McDonald, Norman, 26 Ag Labourer Skye, Presbyterian, read and write
On own account to Geelong
83 McDonald, Johanna 20 Wife 			    read and write
84 McDonald, Elizabeth 1
35 Jack, Andrew, 22 Blacksmith Fife Presbyterian, read and write On
own account Chelwell
36 Jack Jane, 24 Wife 		 not read and write
37 Jack, Robert, infant

On the basis that the two girls were under a three month work contract
it is probable that the family stayed in Geelong for that period.
Donald certainly made the  the most of the opportunities that opened
to him. Not for him the squalor and uncertainties of the Gold
diggings. Georgina and Donald moved to the outskirts of Melbourne to
the new suburb of Prahran and within a very short time, probably in
1855, he was in charge of the water pump on the Yarra River selling
water to the citizens of Prahran on behalf of the local Council. The
area at the time was still mostly bush.

Towards the latter part of 1857, Melbourne was supplied with water
from the Plenty River source, and it was not long before service pipes
were extended to Prahran. That put an end to the usefulness of the
Prahran municipal pump in Yarra Street, and of the South Yarra
Waterworks on Forrest Hill.

When this boon of Yan Yean reticulation came along, Munro took charge,
until his death, of the municipal pound, situated on the present site
of Grattan-street Gardens. Munro and his wife lived in Arthur-street,
in a two-roomed hut. He subsequently bought land in Pine-street, where
he built three houses, living in one. Evidently, he wrote home to Auld
Reekie, for his son James and his wife arrived in 1858 or '59, and
they rented from Donald the cottage at the comer of Hazeldene-place.
The late Hon. James Munro, politician. Premier, banker, building
society promoter, and "land boomer," started his colonial career as
the owner of a small grocery business in Prahran. That was not a
success, for the future Premier of Victoria drifted into a printing
office seeking employment."

The position of Prahran's pound keeper was not that of
employer/employee but was rather an early form of a private/public
enterprise. Donald was expected to operate the pound at a profit and
any shortfall in funds was to be made up by him. In 1865 the pound
lost £26 sustained by the loss from the sale of cattle and the council
in order to keep what they considered a service to the public's
benefit agreed to increase the Donald's salary to £40 per year, "any
excess of fees to be voted him by the council as an increase of
salary, and he to pay any deficiency: and that he use his own
discretion as to the recovery of fees from the parties impounding.
They do this as it is believed the pound is a great public convenience
and although they would like to see it self supporting they do not
wish to see it done away with."

Donald used his discretion about the fees in 1867 when he was having
trouble with cattle being impounded at Prahran rather than Emerald
Hill  after been found wandering into the enclosed ground behind
Victoria Barracks on St. Kilda Road. It is the type of situation where
you can imagine him saying in his highland accent, "The next lot of
cows from Emerald Hill I'm going to charge the owner the maximum."
Unfortunately, the next lot of cows ending up in his pound was seven
owned by a poor woman who had nothing else to depend on. £2 11s for
one hour in the pound, oops nice plan but the Law of Murphy came into
play.

Georgina Ann Scobie Mackay

Unfortunately there is little information about Georgina, even her
date of birth is in doubt. Her death Registration and notices in the
Argus and Age in 1889  gives her age as 91 in which case her birth
year is 1798, however her entry in the International Genealogical
Index gives a date of 1806. Her parent's names are known, however, as
John MacKay and Catherine (Ketty) MacKenzie and that she was Donald
Munro's cousin.

What ever Georgina's date of birth we know more about her death. The
house were she died is still standing in Lygon Street Princess Hill,
Carlton at number 517. The house itself was owned by her daughter Jane
Scobie Munro, the widow of Andrew Sharp Jack, and is the centre of a
terrace in what is now one of the better areas of Melbourne where even
a small Terrace house, like "Sunnyside" are brought for premium
prices. It was probably an above average dwelling in the 1880s. By
1889 Lygon Street was serviced by a Cable Tram and Carlton Station, on
the inner circle line, was a few minutes walk up the road and the MMBW
had laid sewerage and piped water in the area. A far cry from the
Crofters house of Sutherland.

So that is these are my Sutherland ancestors. In a latter message I
will add what happened to Donald and Georginia's children

Bye

Bill

Brunswick Victoria

Hi everyone

I have added two links that lead you directly to the digital archives
of the Public Record Office of Victoria and the NSW BMD page where you
can find the index of BMDs from 1788 onwards.

Bill

I can't work out how to do the links, anyway here are some other
helpful sites:-

www.coraweb.com.au  (there are links to lots of different sites
including cemeteries).

State Archives of Queensland, Indexes go to
www.archives.qld.gov.au/research/indexes.asp

Cemeteries throughout Australia, (not all burials on line) go to
www.ozgenonline.com/aust_cemeteries/
(if this does not work, just google ozgenonline cemeteries), click on
what state you want.

Homepage of the Brisbane City Council, follow links to cemetery
search go to www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/

Queensland Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages go to
www.justice.qld.gov.au/bdm/home.htm

For War Records:-

National Archives of Australia www.naa.gov.au, hit record search then
enter as a guest.

World War 2 www.ww2roll.gov.au

Australian War Memorial www.awm.gov.au

Other good sites are picture australia, (google it)

State Library of Queensland, click picture Queensland, and we know
the link for "Ask a librarian"

That'll do for a bit, there are shipping sites for Scots to
Maryborough, etc, and various Family History Associations in
Queensland.
Jenelle.

Good Morning from England
Delighted to rise this morning and find this is all working.  Brilliant.
Although, as Jenelle pointed out, it was my idea I only came up with it
as I feel there is such a vast amount of knowledge on Australian
genealogy you absolutely deserve a place where you can really get stuck
into it.  Your country is vast and the number of emigrants from
Sutherland who made their way there is also vast.  An excellent
combination for a super new site.
At present I am in the background and available to help Jenelle when
invited to and also to stand in for her when she has holidays etc.
Apart from that this is Jenelle's area and I know that with the support
of you all it will become a fascinating list. Jenelle is brilliant as
you all know already - would not have dreamed up this area if I had doubts.
Be nice to get a photo album up on your group home - nice pics of
Australia, perhaps some historical postcards, arrival centres for
emigrants, etc.  Anyone have anything like that?
Please also remember that you may put brief outlines of your researching
on the new Research help forum on www.countysutherland.co.uk which will
help to get new members coming in - you can direct folks here if you
wish.  More the better.
I have 'lost' some Sutherland folks in Victoria somewhere - who knows I
may finally find an opportunity here to search them out.
Thanks Jenelle and all.
Chris


jenellemccarrick wrote:
> I can't work out how to do the links, anyway here are some other
> helpful sites:-
>
> www.coraweb.com.au  (there are links to lots of different sites
> including cemeteries).
>
>
>

We've just had Francis joined us on the Suth Australia list, so welcome
and see if any of us can help you.  We've had a very interesting start
to our day in North Queensland, we have been on a Tusunami Warning, not
a typical warning for us, generally cyclones, flooding, strong wind
warnings.  Warnings have just been cancelled.
Jenelle.

--- In suth_to_aus@yahoogroups.com, "jenellemccarrick" <jmac2005@...>
wrote:
>
> We've just had Francis joined us on the Suth Australia list, so
welcome
> and see if any of us can help you.  We've had a very interesting
start
> to our day in North Queensland, we have been on a Tusunami Warning,
not
> a typical warning for us, generally cyclones, flooding, strong wind
> warnings.  Warnings have just been cancelled.
> Jenelle.

FRANCES Sorry spelt your name wrong.
Jenelle.
>

Welcome Lizzi to the list, feel free to post what you want, any lookups
required just ask.
Jenelle.

Welcome Judy to the list.  Feel free if you have any helpful web sites
to post to the list that people could use to find their Australian
Sutherland connection, or a short outline on who you are looking for.
Jenelle.

Bound for South Australia, Passengers from Diane Cummings list.
Jenelle.



>
> http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/BoundforSouthAustralia.htm
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date: 1/04/2007
> 8:49 PM
>
>

Here is another helpful Victoria site with various links

www.ballaratgenealogy.org.au
Jenelle.

The Maryborough District Family History Society Inc., site for Scottish
Immigrants to Maryborough, 1848-1868, (I have no affliation with them).
Jenelle.
http://www.satcom.net.au/mdfhs/scottish.html

Might be useful to your Australian research.
Jenelle.
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~cobgenie/links_to_other_sites.htm

Greg's genealogy links, self explanatory.
Jenelle.
http://www.acay.com.au/~gsm/genie.htm

Welcome Carol to the list, feel free to starting posting what family
you are looking for, any handy tips that you use, etc.
Jenelle.

----- Original Message -----

From: jenellemccarrick

To: suth_to_aus@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:22 PM

Subject: [suth_to_aus] WELCOME CAROL

Welcome Carol to the list, feel free to starting posting what family
you are looking for, any handy tips that you use, etc.
Jenelle.

---

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.25/743 - Release Date: 2/04/2007 4:24 PM

----- Original Message -----

From: Nortje

To: suth_to_aus@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:52 PM

Subject: Re: [suth_to_aus] WELCOME CAROL

Hello Jenelle

Thanks for your message.  Hope this site does well, and also hope you realise what you are taking on!!  I will see what I can find to post to the site.

Good luck

Carol

----- Original Message -----

From: jenellemccarrick

To: suth_to_aus@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:22 PM

Subject: [suth_to_aus] WELCOME CAROL

Welcome Carol to the list, feel free to starting posting what family
you are looking for, any handy tips that you use, etc.
Jenelle.

---

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.25/743 - Release Date: 2/04/2007 4:24 PM

To me one of the most fascinating parts of emigration is hearing how
folks made out when they landed in their new homes.  When the hundreds
and hundreds of Sutherland folks left for Canada they tended to create
their new homes in communities similar to that they had left behind.  I
think a lot of this happened because at that early time many of them
still spoke Gaelic as their first language.  Their life in the early
days fascinates me and I love reading about it.

As Australia is a much younger country and most of our Sutherland folks
probably had English as a main language by the time they arrived things
were maybe different?

Would love to hear some of the old history, the old tales.  Did they
create similar communities to what they had left?  Or did they
immediately strike out to form completely different lives?  These old
pioneers must have been brave folks, travelling all those miles not
knowing what lay ahead. The sorrow of leaving home, the excitement of a
new life.

I could go on all night asking questions!  I love history!

Christine

>

This is the site for Australian Dictionary of Biography on-line, Scottish
born page.
Jenelle.


>
>
http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/scripts/adbp-ent_search.php?culitext=Scottish&p\
age=1
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.25/743 - Release Date: 2/04/2007
> 4:24 PM
>
>

Fiona,
First try our National Archives of Australia at www.naa.gov.au click
Record Search, then click Enter as a guest
either to see if he appears in Immigration or has War Service, the
World War 2 Nominal Roll can be found at www.ww2roll.gov.au
Also try www.ozgenon-line.com/aust_cemeteries/
click Western Australia.
Do you have the brother's death certificate?
Jenelle.

Fiona,
do you have the parents of George and James Mackay.
I went to the www.ww2roll.gov.au and found (not sure right one) James
Mackay born Caithness, place of Enrolment Western Australia.  I also
found 2 George Mackay born Helmsdale, Australian Army, one record gives
his Next of Kin as James Mackay.
Jenelle.

Fiona, use search name in blue, this is for Western Australia.
Jenelle.
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/default.php

Fiona,
this is what I found on places containing the word AIRD.
Jenelle.
http://www.ga.gov.au/bin/gazm01?placename=aird&placetype=0&state=0

Hi Christine

Here is the biographical entry for one Sutherland made good, my great
great Uncle James Munro the son of Donald Munro & Georginia MacKay
from the Australian Biographical Dictionary. There are a few errors in
it, but then the researcher was using published works and newspaper
articals

http://www.adb.online.anu.edu.au/biogs/A050358b.htm

The following is a transcript of the death of one of his sisters
Jessie Munro, from the Ararat Advertiser. Jessie married a farmer,
William Bryant of Cornwall,England. Ararat is in Victoria's Western
District

Ararat, Friday, August 12 1892

  Very much regrets were expressed at the ploughing match held on
Wednesday last, at the absence of Mr. W. S. Bryant, J.P., the Chairman
of the Match Committee, when it was learned that his absence was in
consequence of the very serious illness of Mrs. Bryant. For some
considerable time past Mrs. Bryant has been in failing health and she
caught cold when returning from Ararat some few days ago, and her
condition, we regret to say, is now causing her friends much anxiety.
It is hoped, however, that she will yet be able to Battle against the
present attack.


Ararat, Friday, August 19 1892

DEATH
BRYANT – On the 13th August at Ross's Bridge, Jessie M. M. G. Bryant,
aged 51 years, wife of Wm. S. Bryant, and youngest daughter of the
late Donald and Georgina Munro of Prahran.
Loved in Life, Regretted in Death


A large number of the residents of the town and district assembled at
Ross's Bridge on Tuesday last, to pay their last tribute of respect to
the memory of Mrs. Bryant, by following her remains to the place of
internment, the Tatyoon cemetery. The cortège was a very lengthy one.
The service at the grave was conducted by the Rev. Mr. Mathew, the
minister of the newly formed Tatyoon and Ross's Bridge parish of the
Presbyterian Church.

Transcribed by William Bell February 2007 from State Library of
Victoria microfilm

Finally James's elder brother John's death as reported in the Newstead
Echo. Newstead is on the way to Bendigo in Victoria.


Newstead, Wednesday, December 14 1910

One of the earliest residents of Sandy Creek, Mr. John Munro, died
last week, aged 81 years. He was of a very robust disposition, and
carried on farming, and was not ill very long, death being caused by a
general break-up of the system. He leaves a widow; one son and two
daughters to mourn their sad loss, and for whom general sympathy is
express. The funeral was very largely attended and the remains were
interred in the Newstead cemetery on Sunday afternoon. The Rev. Mr.
Harvey (Presbyterian), of Carisbrook, conducted the service at the
grave. An awkward delay of one hour occurred waiting for him, owing to
a mistake in the time of starting, which was two o'clock. He had to
conduct service at Joyce's Creek that afternoon, and it was stated
that he notified the friends of deceased to that effect and asked that
the funeral be delayed to a latter hour, but his message was either
misunderstood or not delivered.

That's all for know. There are more details but the above should do
for a start showing the bare bones of some of my Munro's life in Australia

Bill

Brunswick Victoria

--- In suth_to_aus@yahoogroups.com, mackayfl@... wrote:
>
Fiona, I'll see what else I can find.
Jenelle.


> Hi Janelle
>
> thanks very much for the sites etc I will check them out.
>
> George was born in 1880. He was married at some point but again
have no
> details at all.
> George's parents names were Hugh and Annie(nee  Mackay)
Mackay/Mckay.Hugh died
> in 1909, Annie died in 1939.
> I have his brother James's death cert., he died in 1925. He lived
in
> Dumbleyung and is buried in Nippering Cemetery near there. (I don't
have all the
> details to hand at the moment)
> Informant on James's cert was his business partner.
>
> thanks again and i'll check out those sites again.
>
> Fiona
>

--- In suth_to_aus@yahoogroups.com, mackayfl@... wrote:
>
Fiona,
wonder if there was a funeral notice for James.  Also when you go into
the National Archives at www.naa.gov.au, hit record search, enter as a
guest - at the top of the page you will see a box called PASSENGER
LIST.  Click on that I found 2 George Mackay, for 1920's.
Jenelle.

> Hi Janelle
> Mush appreciated
>
> Fiona
>