http://bangalore.citizenmatters.in/blogs/show_entry/1555-mobilicity-unconfer
ence



Imagine Bangalore as a city where it is pleasant and safe to walk to shops,
parks, schools, or work. Where streets are safe to cycle on; for children,
senior citizens and the physically challenged to cross. Where your work
place is easily reachable by bus or rail. Where it is safe to bicycle or
walk to the nearest metro station or bus stop. Where buses move quickly in
bus lanes and get priority at traffic signals. Where you do not have to
shout over traffic noise to have a conversation, and are not suffocated by
traffic fumes at congested streets.

The key to realising this vision is Sustainable Transport.

Join us at the city's first sustainable transportation Unconference!

Mobilicity

At MobiliCity, a diverse group of citizens and experts will engage in open
dialogue, share ideas, and propose forward-looking strategies and solutions
for accessible, equitable, efficient and environmentally sustainable
transportation in Bangalore.

Date: 21 November 2009
Time: 9:30 AM
Venue: CiSTUP, IISC

Mobilicity is co-hosted by Praja and CiSTUP.
To know more about Mobilicity, go to mobilicity.praja.in.



Check the FaceBook entry at
http://lite.facebook.com/events/Mobilicity/181898268116/





--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

I too disagree with the view of the advertiser expressed through a cleverly
worded e-mail.

A good advert generally appeals to the emotional brain of the end user. A
product often is sold not on basis of logic but how its imprinted on our
mind. If we go back 10 years and recollect which adverts come to our mind,
its likely the most absurd, funny and / or irrelevant ones will crop up. A
coffee advert with girls in a bikini!! (MR Coffee).

Can the advert maker explain why a bunch of people / mob was chosen in the
advert. How commonly in India are cars stalled by pedestrians as against
jams caused by other vehicles? Would it not have been prudent then (if logic
was used) to show a helpless lady driver in a traffic jam using her horn to
bull doze through the jam?

  The ad-makers use metophorical language more than rationality. I have not
seen this advert but the metaphor here is that 'a car = power'. In a
socio-political system where the common man feels helpless and powerless at
every turn, the seat behind the steering wheel amazingly is one place where
we think we are in full control.

Since you have contact with the people who commissioned this advert, perhaps
you may want to consider sending them the collection of our responses.

Adhiraj
www.driving-india.blogspot.com
2009/11/20 <sustran-discuss-request@...>

> Send Sustran-discuss mailing list submissions to
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> Sustran-discuss Mailing List Digest
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> ########################################################################
>
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Kanthi Kannan)
>   2. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Gantasala Visweswara Rao)
>   3. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Sujit Patwardhan)
>   4. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Madhav Pai)
>   5. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Sunny Kodukula)
>   6. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Sarath Guttikunda)
>   7. Re: Road Safety (Kanthi Kannan)
>   8. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Rutul Joshi)
>   9. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Sudhir)
>  10. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Sunny Kodukula)
>  11. Re: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Eric Britton)
>  12. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Eric Britton)
>  13. women who are doing outstanding work (Eric Britton)
>  14. Another car* ad you may have seen,        surprisingly it may be
>      legal (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory)
>  15. First Global Ministerial Conference on Road Safety [was Re:
>      Road Safety] (Morten Lange)
>  16. Re: First Global Ministerial Conference on Road Safety [was
>      Re:       Road Safety] (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory)
>  17. Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial (Sujit Patwardhan)
>  18. Re: First Global Ministerial Conference on Road Safety    [was
>      Re:       Road Safety] (Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:05:20 +0530
> From: "Kanthi Kannan" <kanthikannan@...>
> Subject: [sustran] FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: <sustran-discuss@...>
> Message-ID: <4b04d928.0d0bca0a.03e8.095f@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear all
>
>
>
> Greetings!!
>
>
>
> I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please do
> go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> satisfied
> and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> feeling many of you might not share it).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Kanthi Kannan
>
>
>
> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> pedestrian indiscipline.
>
> The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and her
> path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:10:29 +0530
> From: Gantasala Visweswara Rao <vissu.indian@...>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>,
>        sustran-discuss@...
> Message-ID:
>        <c01765340911182140o3b59cbb8p4c791ae708967b6b@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Very Convincing...
> --Vissu.
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...
> >wrote:
>
> > Dear all
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings!!
> >
> >
> >
> > I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please
> do
> > go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> > satisfied
> > and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> > feeling many of you might not share it).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kanthi Kannan
> >
> >
> >
> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> > products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> > Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> > the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> > pedestrian indiscipline.
> >
> > The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> > encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> > argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> > intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> > commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and
> her
> > path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> > young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> > risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> > hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> > don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> > certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> > (the 'Global South').
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Vissu
>
> Support Akshaya patra: Unlimited food for education (
> http://www.akshayapatra.org/donate.html)
> Every small contribution makes a difference.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:21:18 +0530
> From: Sujit Patwardhan <patwardhan.sujit@...>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>
> Cc: sustran-discuss@...
> Message-ID:
>        <8fba064c0911182151k33a9d855q62faf7763c44b0f0@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Sorry Kanthi,
>
> Not at all convincing.
>
> If you are NOT a car driver and stuck in a traffic jam what do you do?
> Justifying blowing the horn (in a manacing manner anyway) implies you agree
> with the law of the jungle. It is a warning to non-car users to get out of
> the way or else !!
>
> If all are suck in a jam why should any one move aside and make way for the
> car? No one moves out of the way for a cyclist or a pedestrian and
> Sustainable Transportation Vision is trying to change precisely this
> outdated attitude/vision.
>
> The explanation given by the Advertising Agency is nothing but an excuse to
> our continuing to accept Car Domination.
>
> Sorry doesn't cut any ice with me.
>
> --
> Sujit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...
> >wrote:
>
> > Dear all
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings!!
> >
> >
> >
> > I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please
> do
> > go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> > satisfied
> > and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> > feeling many of you might not share it).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kanthi Kannan
> >
> >
> >
> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> > products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> > Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> > the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> > pedestrian indiscipline.
> >
> > The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> > encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> > argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> > intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> > commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and
> her
> > path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> > young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> > risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> > hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> > don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> > certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> > (the 'Global South').
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment
> to destroy the city?
>
> Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel
> Munich 1970
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sujit Patwardhan
> patwardhan.sujit@...
> sujitjp@...
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
> Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India
> Tel: +91 20 25537955
> Cell: +91 98220 26627
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
> Parisar: www.parisar.org
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:02:39 -0500
> From: "Madhav Pai" <MPai@...>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: "Sujit Patwardhan" <patwardhan.sujit@...>,    "Kanthi Kannan"
>        <kanthikannan@...>
> Cc: sustran-discuss@...
> Message-ID:
>
>  <46E2E1971BCEC1459149FBB1A4B4342C0641CD2D@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="US-ASCII"
>
> I completely agree with Sujit. Will these cars back off and make way for
> pedestrians if they use an equally annoying horn (I don't recommend
> doing it). The response is based on their extremly car-centric view of
> the World. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill it
> seems, what about the beautiful humans that she plans runover if they
> don't yeild to her Bosch horn.
>
> Madhav
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+mpai=wri.org@...
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+mpai <sustran-discuss-bounces%2Bmpai>=
> wri.org@...] On Behalf
> Of Sujit Patwardhan
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:21 AM
> To: Kanthi Kannan
> Cc: sustran-discuss@...
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
>
> Sorry Kanthi,
>
> Not at all convincing.
>
> If you are NOT a car driver and stuck in a traffic jam what do you do?
> Justifying blowing the horn (in a manacing manner anyway) implies you
> agree with the law of the jungle. It is a warning to non-car users to
> get out of the way or else !!
>
> If all are suck in a jam why should any one move aside and make way for
> the car? No one moves out of the way for a cyclist or a pedestrian and
> Sustainable Transportation Vision is trying to change precisely this
> outdated attitude/vision.
>
> The explanation given by the Advertising Agency is nothing but an excuse
> to our continuing to accept Car Domination.
>
> Sorry doesn't cut any ice with me.
>
> --
> Sujit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan
> <kanthikannan@...>wrote:
>
> > Dear all
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings!!
> >
> >
> >
> > I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say.
> > Please do go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am
> > personally satisfied and feel that there is no need to take this up at
>
> > a different level. ( My feeling many of you might not share it).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kanthi Kannan
> >
> >
> >
> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All
> > Bosch products comply with the highest environmental standards
> worldwide.
> > Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it
> > what the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to
> > promote pedestrian indiscipline.
> >
> > The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver
> > would encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a
>
> > heated argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic,
> > without intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady
> > driver in the commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to
> > block the road and her path. The volatility of the situation in the
> > commercial is what makes the young lady choose to stay in her car and
> > not put herself at any personal risk. Her conspicuous, brightly
> > colored car at a standstill, she waits, hoping they will notice her
> > clear the road, giving her right of way. They don't. She looks
> > helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is certainly not a
> case of indiscriminate honking."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the
> > real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
> > countries (the 'Global South').
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> "..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment to
> destroy the city"
>
> Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel
> Munich 1970
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sujit Patwardhan
> patwardhan.sujit@...
> sujitjp@...
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India
> Tel: +91 20 25537955
> Cell: +91 98220 26627
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> Parisar: www.parisar.org
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:46:39 +0530
> From: Sunny Kodukula <sunny.enie@...>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>
> Cc: sustran-discuss@...
> Message-ID: <4B04E2C7.8020209@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Sorry Kanthi, I am not satisfied and when a pedestrian is treated like a
> moving "thing" on the street (not even a road) which will make way with
> sound, this is really sad and also not treating other humans alike,
> forget the animals that's another story for the blue cross.
>
> I like the word pedestrian "indiscipline", if the people walk on roads
> it is indiscipline and cars go in the middle of two lanes it is
> perfectly fine. Our cities we try to control the people who cross the
> roads at grade than trying to control the cars that do not stick to
> lanes. Anyway, Who is Bosch to decide what pedestrian indiscipline is!
>
> The lady in the commercial always had the option to leave her car behind
> and walk in the "narrow" street. So Bosch is actually supporting people
> driving cars in narrow streets and also to honk.
>
> those were my 2 cents
>
> cheers
> sunny
>
>
> On 19/11/09 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan wrote:
> > Dear all
> >
> > Greetings!!
> >
> > I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please
> do
> > go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> satisfied
> > and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> > feeling many of you might not share it).
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kanthi Kannan
> >
> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> >
> >   "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> > products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> > Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> > the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> > pedestrian indiscipline.
> >
> > The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> > encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> > argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> > intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> > commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and
> her
> > path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> > young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> > risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> > hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> > don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> > certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:15:14 +0530
> From: Sarath Guttikunda <sguttikunda@...>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: Sunny Kodukula <sunny.enie@...>
> Cc: sustran-discuss@...
> Message-ID:
>        <683ba1ca0911182245n54f36b6ag2b51c8a4e2ae2e4a@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Good points.
>
> I can only quote one example, close to my residence in Delhi.
>
> Along the BRT lane, there is a provision for the  cyclists, 2 meter lane,
> which is a great idea. As you get close to the Chirag Dili flyover (from
> north), because of the increasing congestion at the junction, the traffic
> management decided to convert at least 200m of the cycle lane into a left
> only lane for the motor vehicles.
>
> Which is also fine, helps with the congestion and speed up the left turns
> (India - we drive on the left side). Now, the annoying thing is when car
> drivers honk at the cycles and cycle rickshaws who are in the lane and
> obviously going slower than them.. drivers get annoyed at their presence.
> And I get annoyed at the drivers honking !!
>
> So, two questions.. (1) driver's indiscipline when given an opportunity to
> use a section which does not belong to them and (2) when did a plan for
> promoting NMT become an excuse for road expansion?
>
> With regards,
> Sarath
> (Not a Car Owner)
>
> --
> Sarath Guttikunda
> New Delhi, India
> Phone: +91 9891 315 946
> @ http://www.urbanemissions.info
> @ http://www.dri.edu/People/Sarath.Guttikunda/
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Sunny Kodukula <sunny.enie@...
> >wrote:
>
> > Sorry Kanthi, I am not satisfied and when a pedestrian is treated like a
> > moving "thing" on the street (not even a road) which will make way with
> > sound, this is really sad and also not treating other humans alike,
> > forget the animals that's another story for the blue cross.
> >
> > I like the word pedestrian "indiscipline", if the people walk on roads
> > it is indiscipline and cars go in the middle of two lanes it is
> > perfectly fine. Our cities we try to control the people who cross the
> > roads at grade than trying to control the cars that do not stick to
> > lanes. Anyway, Who is Bosch to decide what pedestrian indiscipline is!
> >
> > The lady in the commercial always had the option to leave her car behind
> > and walk in the "narrow" street. So Bosch is actually supporting people
> > driving cars in narrow streets and also to honk.
> >
> > those were my 2 cents
> >
> > cheers
> > sunny
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:48:27 +0530
> From: "Kanthi Kannan" <kanthikannan@...>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Road Safety
> To: <sustran-discuss@...>
> Message-ID: <4b04f154.0e0bca0a.030e.0ba5@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Dear all
>
>
>
>
>
> Greetings!!
>
>
>
>
>
> Any idea as to who is representing India in the First Global Ministerial
> Conference on Road Safety.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks and Regards
>
>
> Kanthi Kannan
>
>
>
>
>
> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:14:28 +0530 (IST)
> From: Rutul Joshi <joshirutul@...>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: sustran-discuss@...
> Message-ID: <496326.93821.qm@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I agree with Sunny, Madhav and Sujit.
> Let me draw your attention to the voice overs when the 'helpless woman' is
> stuck in front of 'the mob(!)'. The voice over says, "I am not afraid of
> obstacles" and the male voice, " zero compromise horns from Bosch...when
> there is no compromise, there is no fear!" She blows horn because she is not
> afraid of 'obstacles'! It is an outright pro-honking commercial which
> aggressively potrays the priority of car-users over the pedestrians. I do
> not think that anyone can legitimize it by using the 'helpless woman' card.
> What is zero-compromise horns, btw? And what is this portrayal of 'no fear,
> no obstacles' philosophy here?
>
> One can also not buy the argument that horns are like all other approved
> auto products with high environmental standards. Everything fixed on a
> motorized vehicle may be 'approved' but not necessarily harmless. It is
> always the thousand horns blowing at a time, which make life miserable in
> cities.
>
> Finally, it is never about one commercial or this commercial per say. but
> is always about how 'just' are we. We understand that advertisers have to
> exaggerate things but we also bane cigarette commercials. Personally, I
> think horn commercials are as contagious, powerful and anti-social as
> cigarette commercials and they should be banned. There are also double
> standards here on the company's part. Would they have the same commercial in
> their European market?
>
> best,
> Rutul.
>
> PS: As an awareness campaign, I would borrow Madhav's idea. One day, all
> the pedestrians in the city should move around with horns! Would they
> out-number the car horns?
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sunny Kodukula <sunny.enie@...>
> To: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>
> Cc: sustran-discuss@...
> Sent: Thu, 19 November, 2009 11:46:39 AM
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
>
> Sorry Kanthi, I am not satisfied and when a pedestrian is treated like a
> moving "thing" on the street (not even a road) which will make way with
> sound, this is really sad and also not treating other humans alike,
> forget the animals that's another story for the blue cross.
>
> I like the word pedestrian "indiscipline", if the people walk on roads
> it is indiscipline and cars go in the middle of two lanes it is
> perfectly fine. Our cities we try to control the people who cross the
> roads at grade than trying to control the cars that do not stick to
> lanes. Anyway, Who is Bosch to decide what pedestrian indiscipline is!
>
> The lady in the commercial always had the option to leave her car behind
> and walk in the "narrow" street. So Bosch is actually supporting people
> driving cars in narrow streets and also to honk.
>
> those were my 2 cents
>
> cheers
> sunny
>
>
> On 19/11/09 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan wrote:
> > Dear all
> >
> > Greetings!!
> >
> > I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please
> do
> > go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> satisfied
> > and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> > feeling many of you might not share it).
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kanthi Kannan
> >
> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> >
> >   "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> > products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> > Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> > the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> > pedestrian indiscipline.
> >
> > The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> > encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> > argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> > intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> > commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and
> her
> > path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> > young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> > risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> > hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> > don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> > certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>
>
>
>      Keep up with people you care about with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn how.
> http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/connectmore
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:06:04 +0800
> From: Sudhir <sudhir@...>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: Rutul Joshi <joshirutul@...>
> Cc: sustran-discuss@...
> Message-ID:
>        <ef31aa130911190206n5dea6acdk3d35114cddbfb42@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Dear Rutal
>
> excellent discussions
>
> an eye for an eye would make everybody blind :-)
>
> yes, first we need to look at our own Noise pollution standards.. many
> countries still don't have one yet..... Even in India for mixed landuse we
> don't have anything for them. In India we have them for industrial,
> commercial and residential areas. Latest ambient air quality standards
> propose uniform standards across the city - why different for noise?
>
> people trying to improve accessibility live next to roads - paying huge
> rentals, living in 60-100 db noise and breathing most polluted air.....
>
> SG
>
>
> 2009/11/19 Rutul Joshi <joshirutul@...>
>
> > I agree with Sunny, Madhav and Sujit.
> > Let me draw your attention to the voice overs when the 'helpless woman'
> is
> > stuck in front of 'the mob(!)'. The voice over says, "I am not afraid of
> > obstacles" and the male voice, " zero compromise horns from Bosch...when
> > there is no compromise, there is no fear!" She blows horn because she is
> not
> > afraid of 'obstacles'! It is an outright pro-honking commercial which
> > aggressively potrays the priority of car-users over the pedestrians. I do
> > not think that anyone can legitimize it by using the 'helpless woman'
> card.
> > What is zero-compromise horns, btw? And what is this portrayal of 'no
> fear,
> > no obstacles' philosophy here?
> >
> > One can also not buy the argument that horns are like all other approved
> > auto products with high environmental standards. Everything fixed on a
> > motorized vehicle may be 'approved' but not necessarily harmless. It is
> > always the thousand horns blowing at a time, which make life miserable in
> > cities.
> >
> > Finally, it is never about one commercial or this commercial per say. but
> > is always about how 'just' are we. We understand that advertisers have to
> > exaggerate things but we also bane cigarette commercials. Personally, I
> > think horn commercials are as contagious, powerful and anti-social as
> > cigarette commercials and they should be banned. There are also double
> > standards here on the company's part. Would they have the same commercial
> in
> > their European market?
> >
> > best,
> > Rutul.
> >
> > PS: As an awareness campaign, I would borrow Madhav's idea. One day, all
> > the pedestrians in the city should move around with horns! Would they
> > out-number the car horns?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Sunny Kodukula <sunny.enie@...>
> > To: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>
> > Cc: sustran-discuss@...
> > Sent: Thu, 19 November, 2009 11:46:39 AM
> > Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> >
> > Sorry Kanthi, I am not satisfied and when a pedestrian is treated like a
> > moving "thing" on the street (not even a road) which will make way with
> > sound, this is really sad and also not treating other humans alike,
> > forget the animals that's another story for the blue cross.
> >
> > I like the word pedestrian "indiscipline", if the people walk on roads
> > it is indiscipline and cars go in the middle of two lanes it is
> > perfectly fine. Our cities we try to control the people who cross the
> > roads at grade than trying to control the cars that do not stick to
> > lanes. Anyway, Who is Bosch to decide what pedestrian indiscipline is!
> >
> > The lady in the commercial always had the option to leave her car behind
> > and walk in the "narrow" street. So Bosch is actually supporting people
> > driving cars in narrow streets and also to honk.
> >
> > those were my 2 cents
> >
> > cheers
> > sunny
> >
> >
> > On 19/11/09 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan wrote:
> > > Dear all
> > >
> > > Greetings!!
> > >
> > > I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say.
> Please
> > do
> > > go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> > satisfied
> > > and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. (
> My
> > > feeling many of you might not share it).
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Kanthi Kannan
> > >
> > > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> > >
> > >   "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All
> Bosch
> > > products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> > > Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it
> what
> > > the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> > > pedestrian indiscipline.
> > >
> > > The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver
> would
> > > encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> > > argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> > > intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> > > commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and
> > her
> > > path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes
> the
> > > young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any
> personal
> > > risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> > > hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way.
> They
> > > don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> > > certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> > >
> > > ================================================================
> > > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> > (the 'Global South').
> > >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> > (the 'Global South').
> >
> >
> >
> >       Keep up with people you care about with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn
> how.
> > http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/connectmore
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> > (the 'Global South').
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Sudhir Gota
> Transport Specialist
> CAI-Asia Center
> Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower,
> ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City
> Metro Manila, Philippines 1605
> Tel: +63-2-395-2843
> Fax: +63-2-395-2846
> http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
> Skype : sudhirgota
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:18:52 +0530
> From: Sunny Kodukula <sunny.enie@...>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: Sudhir <sudhir@...>
> Cc: sustran-discuss@...
> Message-ID: <4B052294.5010601@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Yes Sudhir you are right about the eye for an eye. Then dont you think
> that these vehicles are moving in the areas where there is a standard.
> Then the next question is will we consider the individual vehicle db for
> standard or the ambient value as you point out for air.
>
> It will surely be a nice idea to remove all the air horns and the fancy
> three step horns which are mounted on most of the two wheelers (and cars
> too) which scare the cyclists off their pedals.
>
> I beg to differ on the last point you mention it is not just people
> living next to road but also people who live in gated residential
> communities. I am a victim of loud noise in a residential area far from
> the main road. This time it is not only the horn but loud music too
> which make my window panes shiver (this is in Delhi).
>
> cheers
> sunny
>
> On 19/11/09 3:36 PM, Sudhir wrote:
> > Dear Rutal
> >
> > excellent discussions
> >
> > an eye for an eye would make everybody blind :-)
> >
> > yes, first we need to look at our own Noise pollution standards.. many
> > countries still don't have one yet..... Even in India for mixed landuse
> we
> > don't have anything for them. In India we have them for industrial,
> > commercial and residential areas. Latest ambient air quality standards
> > propose uniform standards across the city - why different for noise?
> >
> > people trying to improve accessibility live next to roads - paying huge
> > rentals, living in 60-100 db noise and breathing most polluted air.....
> >
> > SG
> >
> >
> > 2009/11/19 Rutul Joshi<joshirutul@...>
> >
> > >  I agree with Sunny, Madhav and Sujit.
> > >  Let me draw your attention to the voice overs when the 'helpless
> woman' is
> > >  stuck in front of 'the mob(!)'. The voice over says, "I am not afraid
> of
> > >  obstacles" and the male voice, " zero compromise horns from
> Bosch...when
> > >  there is no compromise, there is no fear!" She blows horn because she
> is not
> > >  afraid of 'obstacles'! It is an outright pro-honking commercial which
> > >  aggressively potrays the priority of car-users over the pedestrians. I
> do
> > >  not think that anyone can legitimize it by using the 'helpless woman'
> card.
> > >  What is zero-compromise horns, btw? And what is this portrayal of 'no
> fear,
> > >  no obstacles' philosophy here?
> > >
> > >  One can also not buy the argument that horns are like all other
> approved
> > >  auto products with high environmental standards. Everything fixed on a
> > >  motorized vehicle may be 'approved' but not necessarily harmless. It
> is
> > >  always the thousand horns blowing at a time, which make life miserable
> in
> > >  cities.
> > >
> > >  Finally, it is never about one commercial or this commercial per say.
> but
> > >  is always about how 'just' are we. We understand that advertisers have
> to
> > >  exaggerate things but we also bane cigarette commercials. Personally,
> I
> > >  think horn commercials are as contagious, powerful and anti-social as
> > >  cigarette commercials and they should be banned. There are also double
> > >  standards here on the company's part. Would they have the same
> commercial in
> > >  their European market?
> > >
> > >  best,
> > >  Rutul.
> > >
> > >  PS: As an awareness campaign, I would borrow Madhav's idea. One day,
> all
> > >  the pedestrians in the city should move around with horns! Would they
> > >  out-number the car horns?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  ________________________________
> > >  From: Sunny Kodukula<sunny.enie@...>
> > >  To: Kanthi Kannan<kanthikannan@...>
> > >  Cc: sustran-discuss@...
> > >  Sent: Thu, 19 November, 2009 11:46:39 AM
> > >  Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> > >
> > >  Sorry Kanthi, I am not satisfied and when a pedestrian is treated like
> a
> > >  moving "thing" on the street (not even a road) which will make way
> with
> > >  sound, this is really sad and also not treating other humans alike,
> > >  forget the animals that's another story for the blue cross.
> > >
> > >  I like the word pedestrian "indiscipline", if the people walk on roads
> > >  it is indiscipline and cars go in the middle of two lanes it is
> > >  perfectly fine. Our cities we try to control the people who cross the
> > >  roads at grade than trying to control the cars that do not stick to
> > >  lanes. Anyway, Who is Bosch to decide what pedestrian indiscipline is!
> > >
> > >  The lady in the commercial always had the option to leave her car
> behind
> > >  and walk in the "narrow" street. So Bosch is actually supporting
> people
> > >  driving cars in narrow streets and also to honk.
> > >
> > >  those were my 2 cents
> > >
> > >  cheers
> > >  sunny
> > >
> > >
> > >  On 19/11/09 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan wrote:
> > >  >  Dear all
> > >  >
> > >  >  Greetings!!
> > >  >
> > >  >  I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say.
> Please
> > >  do
> > >  >  go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> > >  satisfied
> > >  >  and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different
> level. ( My
> > >  >  feeling many of you might not share it).
> > >  >
> > >  >  Regards
> > >  >
> > >  >  Kanthi Kannan
> > >  >
> > >  >  THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> > >  >
> > >  >    "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All
> Bosch
> > >  >  products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> > >  >  Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is
> it what
> > >  >  the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to
> promote
> > >  >  pedestrian indiscipline.
> > >  >
> > >  >  The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver
> would
> > >  >  encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a
> heated
> > >  >  argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic,
> without
> > >  >  intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in
> the
> > >  >  commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road
> and
> > >  her
> > >  >  path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what
> makes the
> > >  >  young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any
> personal
> > >  >  risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she
> waits,
> > >  >  hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of
> way. They
> > >  >  don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It
> is
> > >  >  certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
> > >  >
> > >  >  --------------------------------------------------------
> > >  >  To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > >  >
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> > >  >
> > >  >  --------------------------------------------------------
> > >  >  If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > >  http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the
> real
> > >  sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> > >  >
> > >  >  ================================================================
> > >  >  SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > >  equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
> countries
> > >  (the 'Global South').
> > >  >
> > >
> > >  --------------------------------------------------------
> > >  To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > >  http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> > >
> > >  --------------------------------------------------------
> > >  If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > >  http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the
> real
> > >  sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> > >
> > >  ================================================================
> > >  SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > >  equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
> countries
> > >  (the 'Global South').
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >        Keep up with people you care about with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn
> how.
> > >  http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/connectmore
> > >  --------------------------------------------------------
> > >  To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > >  http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> > >
> > >  --------------------------------------------------------
> > >  If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > >  http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the
> real
> > >  sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> > >
> > >  ================================================================
> > >  SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > >  equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
> countries
> > >  (the 'Global South').
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:08:26 +0100
> From: "Eric Britton" <eric.britton@...>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: "'Carlosfelipe Pardo'" <carlosfpardo@...>,    "'Sujit
>        Patwardhan'" <patwardhan.sujit@...>
> Cc: 'Sudhir Badami' <sudhirbadami@...>,
>        sustran-discuss@...
> Message-ID: <039001ca6869$5ee08e30$1ca1aa90$@britton@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> >> We can also flag the video as inappropriate in youtube<<
>
>
>
> No no.  Please don't do that.
>
>
>
> The video is (horribly!) appropriate and we need to have it out there for
> all to see.
>
>
>
> Over at World Streets we are trying to follow up on this, and I personally
> and professionally believe that a combination of humor and perspective will
> go a long way. This is an object lesson in the fundamental contradictions
> that wrack our poor planet, and we should not just erase it as if the
> causes
> were not there.
>
>
>
> What we say in these cases is, give them plenty of rope.  So that they can
> hang themselves.
>
>
>
> Let them continue to speak out. And let us speak out ourselves.
>
>
>
> Kind wishes,
>
>
>
> Eric Britton
>
>
>
> PS. Also and finally, le us not lose sight that a shop like Bosch has
> enormous technology potential in areas which are important for new mobility
> and sustainability. So let's see if we can nudge them in the right
> direction. (More than nudge actually but all that for another day).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:21:33 +0100
> From: "Eric Britton" <eric.britton@...>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: "'Sunny Kodukula'" <sunny.enie@...>,  "'Kanthi Kannan'"
>        <kanthikannan@...>
> Cc: sustran-discuss@...
> Message-ID: <016701ca68f1$501a5330$f04ef990$@britton@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="US-ASCII"
>
> >>"Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products.. . . <<
>
> May I kindly have the exact source of these excellent (read, incredible)
> words? It is the exact attitude that I wish to chart.
>
> We are giving this quite some attention over on World Streets.
>
> Regards,ericbritton
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:31:50 +0100
> From: "Eric Britton" <eric.britton@...>
> Subject: [sustran] women who are doing outstanding work
> To: <sustran-discuss@...>
> Message-ID: <017401ca68f2$c3d45f90$4b7d1eb0$@britton@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> We are trying to develop a strong female quorum in support of our work
> program and lobbying effort in support of sharper transport/climate
> actions.
> And a significant part of this has to do with our string of projects on
> sharing in transport, of which if you are interested you can see the draft
> website for the first such project at www.kaohsiung.sharetransport.org.
>
>
>
> So if you are female please get in touch. And if you know women who are
> doing outstanding work in our shared fields of interest, we would be most
> grateful is you would agree to put us in touch with them.
>
>
>
> We need more strong female participation and leadership at all levels.
> (Including in Sustran by the way.)
>
>
>
> Kin thanks.
>
>
>
> Regards.ericbritton
>
>
>
> PS. World Streets on sharing http://tinyurl.com/ws-sharing   -   And on
> female leadership - http://tinyurl.com/ws-women
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                       The New Mobility Agenda
>
> cid:image001.jpg@...
>
>               Technology transforms time and space
>
>                                             . . . and our minds
>
>
>
>  New Mobility Partnerships  - http://www.newmobility.org
> <http://www.newmobility.org/>
>
>       & check out World Streets --
www.Worldstreets.org<http://www.worldstreets.org/>
> <http://www.worldstreets.org/>
>
>      Europe:   8/10 rue Joseph Bara,     75006 Paris,  France
>
>        T:  +331 4326 1323  or  +339 7044 4179   Skype: ericbritton
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
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achment-0001.jpe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:46:09 +0100
> From: "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" <edelman@...>
> Subject: [sustran] Another car* ad you may have seen,   surprisingly it
>        may be legal
> To: LotsLessCars@yahoogroups.com,       Global 'South' Sustainable
> Transport
>        <sustran-discuss@...>
> Cc: Joachim Bergerhoff <agimjo@...>, lobjoit@...
> Message-ID: <4B053E11.8090503@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Hi,
>
> I was looking up advert standards in the UK and realised that this
> Mitsubishi Colt advert shown on Greek TV
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeKtylqoh0s> (Mark Lobjoit posted it on
> the New Mobility Cafe list earlier in the week) would very likely not be
> illegal in the UK because a - It is not reality pictured, but a fantasy
> land and b - the speed limit referred to is "100" but it is not
> explicitly kph or mph.... . (This advert was very expensive so I assume
> it was not done just for many European markets -- the ending text is
> "While Speedville is a fantasy, the Mitsubishi Colt is real". I am
> actually not sure if car* adverts produced for the UK or Ireland are
> used in mainland Europe because of different driving position).
>
> ASA code
>
> "11.9.1 Rules for all advertising
>
> No advertisement may encourage or condone dangerous, inconsiderate or
> irresponsible driving or motorcycling
>
> Note:
>
> This does not prevent flamboyant driving in scenes which are clearly
> fantasy or ?theatrical? so that the action is distanced from reality (eg
> scenes of driving mayhem in trailers for action films).
>
> 11.9.2 Automotive advertising
>
> Advertisements for cars, motorbikes or other automotive products must not:
>
> a) encourage or condone fast or irresponsible driving nor
>
> b) refer to speeds over 70mph nor..."
>
>
>
http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/codes/tv_code/tv_codes/Section+11+-+Other+Categories+N\
ew.htm
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Todd Edelman
> Green Idea Factory
>
> Urbanstr. 45
> D-10967 Berlin
> Germany
>
> Skype: toddedelman
> Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081
>
> edelman@...
> www.greenidea.eu
> www.flickr.com/photos/edelman
>
> CAR* is over. If you want it.
>
> "Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
> - B. Brecht (with slight modification)
>
> * "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
> opportunistically or without creativity
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:50:30 -0800 (PST)
> From: Morten Lange <morten7an@...>
> Subject: [sustran] First Global Ministerial Conference on Road Safety
>        [was Re:        Road Safety]
> To: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>
> Cc: sustran-discuss@...
> Message-ID: <126756.20907.qm@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi
>
> Good idea to keep an eye on that conference, First Global Ministerial
> Conference on Road Safety in Moscow, today and tomorrow 20.november.
>
> The following point on the agenda of the declaration to be singed tomorrow
>  http://www.who.int/roadsafety/ministerial_conference/declaration_en.pdf
> looks promising :
>
> 5. Begin to implement safer and more sustainable transportation, including
> through land-use planning initiatives and by encouraging alternative forms
> of transportation;
>
> Many other are traditional and partly can contribute to cement our current
> patterns.
>
>
> How can we who "have ssen the light" best guide this initiative as it
> gathers strength  to not repeat the mistakes of the north, which the
> ministers seem set to forget :  A grand motorisation of urban and other
> transport and creating of barriers for an active lifestyle, with side
> effects like a worsening public health due to inactivity and pollution,
> inefficient transportation systems,  sprawling cities, increasing patterns
> of buy and throw away etc.
>
> Instead of looking to the rich countries for solutions, I guess there are
> better models being developed in the South.  Curitiba and Bogot? spring to
> mind. Which are other good (or better) beacons ?
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Morten
>
>
> --- On Thu, 19/11/09, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...> wrote:
>
> > From: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>
> > Subject: [sustran] Re: Road Safety
> > To: sustran-discuss@...
> > Date: Thursday, 19 November, 2009, 7:18
> >
> > Dear all
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Any idea as to who is representing India in the First
> > Global Ministerial
> > Conference on Road Safety.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks and Regards
> >
> >
> > Kanthi Kannan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT
> > WALK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss
> > to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership
> > rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of
> > people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a
> > focus on developing countries (the 'Global South').
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:21:53 +0100
> From: "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" <edelman@...>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: First Global Ministerial Conference on Road
>        Safety [was     Re:     Road Safety]
> To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
>        <sustran-discuss@...>
> Message-ID: <4B054671.9070405@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> One point out of eleven? It should be the main point. Indeed, as Morten
> points out, the other points cement our current patterns....
>
> See here:
>
> http://www.who.int/roadsafety/ministerial_conference/en/
>
> ... in what I will call (generously) an "Old Mobility +" philosophy,
> which is mainly about consciously doing very little to stop the private
> car* industry from suffering in the slightest. In fact it is the private
> car* industry which stands firmly behind a lot of their programming and
> throws money around, polluting the agenda of otherwise fine sustainable
> mobility organisations.
>
> --- "We will make fewer and fewer private cars*" suggested a more
> controversial participant in the conference as a slogan to come out of
> the conference. Her fellow attendees laughed  hard at her, but then gave
> her a bike helmet and some paint to create some crosswalks in her town ---
>
> - T
>
>
> Morten Lange wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Good idea to keep an eye on that conference, First Global Ministerial
> Conference on Road Safety in Moscow, today and tomorrow 20.november.
> >
> > The following point on the agenda of the declaration to be singed
> tomorrow
> >
> http://www.who.int/roadsafety/ministerial_conference/declaration_en.pdf
> > looks promising :
> >
> > 5. Begin to implement safer and more sustainable transportation,
> including through land-use planning initiatives and by encouraging
> alternative forms of transportation;
> >
> > Many other are traditional and partly can contribute to cement our
> current patterns.
> >
> >
> > How can we who "have ssen the light" best guide this initiative as it
> gathers strength  to not repeat the mistakes of the north, which the
> ministers seem set to forget :  A grand motorisation of urban and other
> transport and creating of barriers for an active lifestyle, with side
> effects like a worsening public health due to inactivity and pollution,
> inefficient transportation systems,  sprawling cities, increasing patterns
> of buy and throw away etc.
> >
> > Instead of looking to the rich countries for solutions, I guess there are
> better models being developed in the South.  Curitiba and Bogot? spring to
> mind. Which are other good (or better) beacons ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Morten
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 19/11/09, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> From: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>
> >> Subject: [sustran] Re: Road Safety
> >> To: sustran-discuss@...
> >> Date: Thursday, 19 November, 2009, 7:18
> >>
> >> Dear all
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Greetings!!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Any idea as to who is representing India in the First
> >> Global Ministerial
> >> Conference on Road Safety.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks and Regards
> >>
> >>
> >> Kanthi Kannan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT
> >> WALK
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss
> >> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership
> >> rights.
> >>
> >> ================================================================
> >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of
> >> people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a
> >> focus on developing countries (the 'Global South').
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Todd Edelman
> Green Idea Factory
>
> Urbanstr. 45
> D-10967 Berlin
> Germany
>
> Skype: toddedelman
> Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081
>
> edelman@...
> www.greenidea.eu
> www.flickr.com/photos/edelman
>
> CAR* is over. If you want it.
>
> "Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
> - B. Brecht (with slight modification)
>
> * "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
> opportunistically or without creativity
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:32:05 +0530
> From: Sujit Patwardhan <patwardhan.sujit@...>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> To: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>
> Cc: sustran-discuss@...
> Message-ID:
>        <8fba064c0911190902s6488616bg741f858b6d70e0a8@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Kanthi,
>
> Can you please forward Email of the Advertising Agency and if possible
> their
> postal address too?
>
> Let's see if they continue to use the same belligerent tone if they are
> hauled up by the Advertising Standards Council of India (ASCI) for
> "inappropriate" advertising.
>
> --
> Sujit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...
> >wrote:
>
> > Dear all
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings!!
> >
> >
> >
> > I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please
> do
> > go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> > satisfied
> > and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> > feeling many of you might not share it).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kanthi Kannan
> >
> >
> >
> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> > products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> > Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> > the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> > pedestrian indiscipline.
> >
> > The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> > encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> > argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> > intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> > commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and
> her
> > path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> > young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> > risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> > hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> > don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> > certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> > http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> > sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> > equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> > (the 'Global South').
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ?..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment
> to destroy the city?
>
> Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel
> Munich 1970
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sujit Patwardhan
> patwardhan.sujit@...
> sujitjp@...
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
> Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India
> Tel: +91 20 25537955
> Cell: +91 98220 26627
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
> Parisar: www.parisar.org
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:52:09 +0100
> From: "Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory" <edelman@...>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: First Global Ministerial Conference on Road
>        Safety  [was    Re:     Road Safety]
> To: Global 'South' Sustainable Transport
>        <sustran-discuss@...>,     sminkeyl@...,
> traffic@...
> Message-ID: <4B0593D9.3070708@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Here are some excerpts from the BBC report about the event...
>
> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8366952.stm>
>
> * "Some of the world's poorest countries are to receive a cash injection
> of ?1.5m from the UK government to help improve road safety.[...] The
> funding will pay for pedestrian crossings and better road markings. "
>
> * "Former UK Defence Secretary Lord Robertson, who is chairman of the
> global Make Roads Safe campaign, said the conference must 'signal a
> change of direction'.
>
> '*We know how to make roads safe: better road design and speed
> management; helmets and seatbelts; police enforcement*,' he said.
>
> 'We have the *vaccines* for this epidemic, now we need the political
> will for a decade of action for road safety.'"
>
> Nothing about point 5 from the PDF Morten sent earlier... maybe more
> info will show up in a press release.
>
> ?1.5m represents 1% of a new contract to "...provide weapon sights and
> targeting devices to the U.K. Ministry of Defense"
> <
>
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2009/September/Pages/UKMilitarySp\
endingontheRise,SaysMODOfficial.aspx
> >
> and about .00005 % of total UK military spending in 2009/10
> <
>
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/Organisation/KeyFactsAboutDefence\
/DefenceSpending.htm
> >
>
> Silliness. The UK representatives who are responsible should be forced
> to crawl home from Moscow. WHO needs to be honest and call this the
> "Keep on Drivin'" campaign.
>
> - T
>
> p.s. The radical who proposed the earlier statement about making less
> cars was also given a reflective vest with a happy face on it.
>
>
>  * *Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote:
> > One point out of eleven? It should be the main point. Indeed, as Morten
> > points out, the other points cement our current patterns....
> >
> > See here:
> >
> > http://www.who.int/roadsafety/ministerial_conference/en/
> >
> > ... in what I will call (generously) an "Old Mobility +" philosophy,
> > which is mainly about consciously doing very little to stop the private
> > car* industry from suffering in the slightest. In fact it is the private
> > car* industry which stands firmly behind a lot of their programming and
> > throws money around, polluting the agenda of otherwise fine sustainable
> > mobility organisations.
> >
> > --- "We will make fewer and fewer private cars*" suggested a more
> > controversial participant in the conference as a slogan to come out of
> > the conference. Her fellow attendees laughed  hard at her, but then gave
> > her a bike helmet and some paint to create some crosswalks in her town
> ---
> >
> > - T
> >
> >
> > Morten Lange wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> Good idea to keep an eye on that conference, First Global Ministerial
> Conference on Road Safety in Moscow, today and tomorrow 20.november.
> >>
> >> The following point on the agenda of the declaration to be singed
> tomorrow
> >>
> http://www.who.int/roadsafety/ministerial_conference/declaration_en.pdf
> >> looks promising :
> >>
> >> 5. Begin to implement safer and more sustainable transportation,
> including through land-use planning initiatives and by encouraging
> alternative forms of transportation;
> >>
> >> Many other are traditional and partly can contribute to cement our
> current patterns.
> >>
> >>
> >> How can we who "have ssen the light" best guide this initiative as it
> gathers strength  to not repeat the mistakes of the north, which the
> ministers seem set to forget :  A grand motorisation of urban and other
> transport and creating of barriers for an active lifestyle, with side
> effects like a worsening public health due to inactivity and pollution,
> inefficient transportation systems,  sprawling cities, increasing patterns
> of buy and throw away etc.
> >>
> >> Instead of looking to the rich countries for solutions, I guess there
> are better models being developed in the South.  Curitiba and Bogot? spring
> to mind. Which are other good (or better) beacons ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Morten
> >>
> >>
> >> --- On Thu, 19/11/09, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>
> >>> Subject: [sustran] Re: Road Safety
> >>> To: sustran-discuss@...
> >>> Date: Thursday, 19 November, 2009, 7:18
> >>>
> >>> Dear all
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Greetings!!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Any idea as to who is representing India in the First
> >>> Global Ministerial
> >>> Conference on Road Safety.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks and Regards
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Kanthi Kannan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT
> >>> WALK
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> >>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------
> >>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss
> >>> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership
> >>> rights.
> >>>
> >>> ================================================================
> >>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of
> >>> people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a
> >>> focus on developing countries (the 'Global South').
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> >> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------
> >> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >>
> >> ================================================================
> >> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Todd Edelman
> Green Idea Factory
>
> Urbanstr. 45
> D-10967 Berlin
> Germany
>
> Skype: toddedelman
> Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081
>
> edelman@...
> www.greenidea.eu
> www.flickr.com/photos/edelman
>
> CAR* is over. If you want it.
>
> "Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
> - B. Brecht (with slight modification)
>
> * "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
> opportunistically or without creativity
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>
> End of Sustran-discuss Digest, Vol 75, Issue 12
> ***********************************************
>
--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

Here are some excerpts from the BBC report about the event...

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8366952.stm>

* "Some of the world's poorest countries are to receive a cash injection
of �1.5m from the UK government to help improve road safety.[...] The
funding will pay for pedestrian crossings and better road markings. "

* "Former UK Defence Secretary Lord Robertson, who is chairman of the
global Make Roads Safe campaign, said the conference must 'signal a
change of direction'.

'*We know how to make roads safe: better road design and speed
management; helmets and seatbelts; police enforcement*,' he said.

'We have the *vaccines* for this epidemic, now we need the political
will for a decade of action for road safety.'"

Nothing about point 5 from the PDF Morten sent earlier... maybe more
info will show up in a press release.

�1.5m represents 1% of a new contract to "...provide weapon sights and
targeting devices to the U.K. Ministry of Defense"
<http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2009/September/Pages/UKMilitaryS\
pendingontheRise,SaysMODOfficial.aspx>
and about .00005 % of total UK military spending in 2009/10
<http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/Organisation/KeyFactsAboutDefenc\
e/DefenceSpending.htm>

Silliness. The UK representatives who are responsible should be forced
to crawl home from Moscow. WHO needs to be honest and call this the
"Keep on Drivin'" campaign.

- T

p.s. The radical who proposed the earlier statement about making less
cars was also given a reflective vest with a happy face on it.


  * *Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory wrote:
> One point out of eleven? It should be the main point. Indeed, as Morten
> points out, the other points cement our current patterns....
>
> See here:
>
> http://www.who.int/roadsafety/ministerial_conference/en/
>
> ... in what I will call (generously) an "Old Mobility +" philosophy,
> which is mainly about consciously doing very little to stop the private
> car* industry from suffering in the slightest. In fact it is the private
> car* industry which stands firmly behind a lot of their programming and
> throws money around, polluting the agenda of otherwise fine sustainable
> mobility organisations.
>
> --- "We will make fewer and fewer private cars*" suggested a more
> controversial participant in the conference as a slogan to come out of
> the conference. Her fellow attendees laughed  hard at her, but then gave
> her a bike helmet and some paint to create some crosswalks in her town ---
>
> - T
>
>
> Morten Lange wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Good idea to keep an eye on that conference, First Global Ministerial
Conference on Road Safety in Moscow, today and tomorrow 20.november.
>>
>> The following point on the agenda of the declaration to be singed tomorrow
>>   http://www.who.int/roadsafety/ministerial_conference/declaration_en.pdf
>> looks promising :
>>
>> 5. Begin to implement safer and more sustainable transportation, including
through land-use planning initiatives and by encouraging alternative forms of
transportation;
>>
>> Many other are traditional and partly can contribute to cement our current
patterns.
>>
>>
>> How can we who "have ssen the light" best guide this initiative as it gathers
strength  to not repeat the mistakes of the north, which the ministers seem set
to forget :  A grand motorisation of urban and other transport and creating of
barriers for an active lifestyle, with side effects like a worsening public
health due to inactivity and pollution, inefficient transportation systems, 
sprawling cities, increasing patterns of buy and throw away etc.
>>
>> Instead of looking to the rich countries for solutions, I guess there are
better models being developed in the South.  Curitiba and Bogot� spring to mind.
Which are other good (or better) beacons ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Morten
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 19/11/09, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>
>>> Subject: [sustran] Re: Road Safety
>>> To: sustran-discuss@...
>>> Date: Thursday, 19 November, 2009, 7:18
>>>
>>> Dear all
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Greetings!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any idea as to who is representing India in the First
>>> Global Ministerial
>>> Conference on Road Safety.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks and Regards
>>>
>>>
>>> Kanthi Kannan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT
>>> WALK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss
>>> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership
>>> rights.
>>>
>>> ================================================================
>>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of
>>> people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a
>>> focus on developing countries (the 'Global South').
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>>
>> ================================================================
>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>


--
--------------------------------------------

Todd Edelman
Green Idea Factory

Urbanstr. 45
D-10967 Berlin
Germany

Skype: toddedelman
Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081

edelman@...
www.greenidea.eu
www.flickr.com/photos/edelman

CAR* is over. If you want it.

"Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
- B. Brecht (with slight modification)

* "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
opportunistically or without creativity

--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

Kanthi,

Can you please forward Email of the Advertising Agency and if possible their
postal address too?

Let's see if they continue to use the same belligerent tone if they are
hauled up by the Advertising Standards Council of India (ASCI) for
"inappropriate" advertising.

--
Sujit








On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>wrote:

> Dear all
>
>
>
> Greetings!!
>
>
>
> I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please do
> go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> satisfied
> and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> feeling many of you might not share it).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Kanthi Kannan
>
>
>
> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> pedestrian indiscipline.
>
> The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and her
> path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>



--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
�..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment
to destroy the city�

Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel
Munich 1970

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Sujit Patwardhan
patwardhan.sujit@...
sujitjp@...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India
Tel: +91 20 25537955
Cell: +91 98220 26627
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
Parisar: www.parisar.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

One point out of eleven? It should be the main point. Indeed, as Morten
points out, the other points cement our current patterns....

See here:

http://www.who.int/roadsafety/ministerial_conference/en/

... in what I will call (generously) an "Old Mobility +" philosophy,
which is mainly about consciously doing very little to stop the private
car* industry from suffering in the slightest. In fact it is the private
car* industry which stands firmly behind a lot of their programming and
throws money around, polluting the agenda of otherwise fine sustainable
mobility organisations.

--- "We will make fewer and fewer private cars*" suggested a more
controversial participant in the conference as a slogan to come out of
the conference. Her fellow attendees laughed  hard at her, but then gave
her a bike helmet and some paint to create some crosswalks in her town ---

- T


Morten Lange wrote:
> Hi
>
> Good idea to keep an eye on that conference, First Global Ministerial
Conference on Road Safety in Moscow, today and tomorrow 20.november.
>
> The following point on the agenda of the declaration to be singed tomorrow
>   http://www.who.int/roadsafety/ministerial_conference/declaration_en.pdf
> looks promising :
>
> 5. Begin to implement safer and more sustainable transportation, including
through land-use planning initiatives and by encouraging alternative forms of
transportation;
>
> Many other are traditional and partly can contribute to cement our current
patterns.
>
>
> How can we who "have ssen the light" best guide this initiative as it gathers
strength  to not repeat the mistakes of the north, which the ministers seem set
to forget :  A grand motorisation of urban and other transport and creating of
barriers for an active lifestyle, with side effects like a worsening public
health due to inactivity and pollution, inefficient transportation systems, 
sprawling cities, increasing patterns of buy and throw away etc.
>
> Instead of looking to the rich countries for solutions, I guess there are
better models being developed in the South.  Curitiba and Bogot� spring to mind.
Which are other good (or better) beacons ?
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Morten
>
>
> --- On Thu, 19/11/09, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...> wrote:
>
>
>> From: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>
>> Subject: [sustran] Re: Road Safety
>> To: sustran-discuss@...
>> Date: Thursday, 19 November, 2009, 7:18
>>
>> Dear all
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Greetings!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Any idea as to who is representing India in the First
>> Global Ministerial
>> Conference on Road Safety.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks and Regards
>>
>>
>> Kanthi Kannan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT
>> WALK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss
>> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership
>> rights.
>>
>> ================================================================
>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of
>> people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a
>> focus on developing countries (the 'Global South').
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').
>
>


--
--------------------------------------------

Todd Edelman
Green Idea Factory

Urbanstr. 45
D-10967 Berlin
Germany

Skype: toddedelman
Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081

edelman@...
www.greenidea.eu
www.flickr.com/photos/edelman

CAR* is over. If you want it.

"Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
- B. Brecht (with slight modification)

* "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
opportunistically or without creativity

--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

Hi

Good idea to keep an eye on that conference, First Global Ministerial Conference
on Road Safety in Moscow, today and tomorrow 20.november.

The following point on the agenda of the declaration to be singed tomorrow
   http://www.who.int/roadsafety/ministerial_conference/declaration_en.pdf
looks promising :

5. Begin to implement safer and more sustainable transportation, including
through land-use planning initiatives and by encouraging alternative forms of
transportation;

Many other are traditional and partly can contribute to cement our current
patterns.


How can we who "have ssen the light" best guide this initiative as it gathers
strength  to not repeat the mistakes of the north, which the ministers seem set
to forget :  A grand motorisation of urban and other transport and creating of
barriers for an active lifestyle, with side effects like a worsening public
health due to inactivity and pollution, inefficient transportation systems, 
sprawling cities, increasing patterns of buy and throw away etc.

Instead of looking to the rich countries for solutions, I guess there are better
models being developed in the South.  Curitiba and Bogot� spring to mind. Which
are other good (or better) beacons ?



Best Regards,
Morten


--- On Thu, 19/11/09, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...> wrote:

> From: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>
> Subject: [sustran] Re: Road Safety
> To: sustran-discuss@...
> Date: Thursday, 19 November, 2009, 7:18
>
> Dear all
>
>
>
>
>
> Greetings!!
>
>
>
>
>
> Any idea as to who is representing India in the First
> Global Ministerial
> Conference on Road Safety.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks and Regards
>
>
> Kanthi Kannan
>
>
>
>
>
> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT
> WALK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss
> to join the real sustran-discuss and get full membership
> rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of
> people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a
> focus on developing countries (the 'Global South').
>



--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

Hi,

I was looking up advert standards in the UK and realised that this
Mitsubishi Colt advert shown on Greek TV
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeKtylqoh0s> (Mark Lobjoit posted it on
the New Mobility Cafe list earlier in the week) would very likely not be
illegal in the UK because a - It is not reality pictured, but a fantasy
land and b - the speed limit referred to is "100" but it is not
explicitly kph or mph.... . (This advert was very expensive so I assume
it was not done just for many European markets -- the ending text is
"While Speedville is a fantasy, the Mitsubishi Colt is real". I am
actually not sure if car* adverts produced for the UK or Ireland are
used in mainland Europe because of different driving position).

ASA code

"11.9.1 Rules for all advertising

No advertisement may encourage or condone dangerous, inconsiderate or
irresponsible driving or motorcycling

Note:

This does not prevent flamboyant driving in scenes which are clearly
fantasy or �theatrical� so that the action is distanced from reality (eg
scenes of driving mayhem in trailers for action films).

11.9.2 Automotive advertising

Advertisements for cars, motorbikes or other automotive products must not:

a) encourage or condone fast or irresponsible driving nor

b) refer to speeds over 70mph nor..."

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/codes/tv_code/tv_codes/Section+11+-+Other+Categories+N\
ew.htm


--
--------------------------------------------

Todd Edelman
Green Idea Factory

Urbanstr. 45
D-10967 Berlin
Germany

Skype: toddedelman
Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081

edelman@...
www.greenidea.eu
www.flickr.com/photos/edelman

CAR* is over. If you want it.

"Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
- B. Brecht (with slight modification)

* "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
opportunistically or without creativity

--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

>>"Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products.. . . <<

May I kindly have the exact source of these excellent (read, incredible)
words? It is the exact attitude that I wish to chart.

We are giving this quite some attention over on World Streets.

Regards,ericbritton

--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

We are trying to develop a strong female quorum in support of our work
program and lobbying effort in support of sharper transport/climate actions.
And a significant part of this has to do with our string of projects on
sharing in transport, of which if you are interested you can see the draft
website for the first such project at www.kaohsiung.sharetransport.org.



So if you are female please get in touch. And if you know women who are
doing outstanding work in our shared fields of interest, we would be most
grateful is you would agree to put us in touch with them.



We need more strong female participation and leadership at all levels.
(Including in Sustran by the way.)



Kin thanks.



Regards.ericbritton



PS. World Streets on sharing http://tinyurl.com/ws-sharing   -   And on
female leadership - http://tinyurl.com/ws-women







                        The New Mobility Agenda

cid:image001.jpg@...

                Technology transforms time and space

                                              . . . and our minds



   New Mobility Partnerships  - http://www.newmobility.org
<http://www.newmobility.org/>

        & check out World Streets -- www.Worldstreets.org
<http://www.worldstreets.org/>

       Europe:   8/10 rue Joseph Bara,     75006 Paris,  France

         T:  +331 4326 1323  or  +339 7044 4179   Skype: ericbritton

--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
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================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

>> We can also flag the video as inappropriate in youtube<<



No no.  Please don't do that.



The video is (horribly!) appropriate and we need to have it out there for
all to see.



Over at World Streets we are trying to follow up on this, and I personally
and professionally believe that a combination of humor and perspective will
go a long way. This is an object lesson in the fundamental contradictions
that wrack our poor planet, and we should not just erase it as if the causes
were not there.



What we say in these cases is, give them plenty of rope.  So that they can
hang themselves.



Let them continue to speak out. And let us speak out ourselves.



Kind wishes,



Eric Britton



PS. Also and finally, le us not lose sight that a shop like Bosch has
enormous technology potential in areas which are important for new mobility
and sustainability. So let's see if we can nudge them in the right
direction. (More than nudge actually but all that for another day).





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Yes Sudhir you are right about the eye for an eye. Then dont you think
that these vehicles are moving in the areas where there is a standard.
Then the next question is will we consider the individual vehicle db for
standard or the ambient value as you point out for air.

It will surely be a nice idea to remove all the air horns and the fancy
three step horns which are mounted on most of the two wheelers (and cars
too) which scare the cyclists off their pedals.

I beg to differ on the last point you mention it is not just people
living next to road but also people who live in gated residential
communities. I am a victim of loud noise in a residential area far from
the main road. This time it is not only the horn but loud music too
which make my window panes shiver (this is in Delhi).

cheers
sunny

On 19/11/09 3:36 PM, Sudhir wrote:
> Dear Rutal
>
> excellent discussions
>
> an eye for an eye would make everybody blind :-)
>
> yes, first we need to look at our own Noise pollution standards.. many
> countries still don't have one yet..... Even in India for mixed landuse we
> don't have anything for them. In India we have them for industrial,
> commercial and residential areas. Latest ambient air quality standards
> propose uniform standards across the city - why different for noise?
>
> people trying to improve accessibility live next to roads - paying huge
> rentals, living in 60-100 db noise and breathing most polluted air.....
>
> SG
>
>
> 2009/11/19 Rutul Joshi<joshirutul@...>
>
> >  I agree with Sunny, Madhav and Sujit.
> >  Let me draw your attention to the voice overs when the 'helpless woman' is
> >  stuck in front of 'the mob(!)'. The voice over says, "I am not afraid of
> >  obstacles" and the male voice, " zero compromise horns from Bosch...when
> >  there is no compromise, there is no fear!" She blows horn because she is
not
> >  afraid of 'obstacles'! It is an outright pro-honking commercial which
> >  aggressively potrays the priority of car-users over the pedestrians. I do
> >  not think that anyone can legitimize it by using the 'helpless woman' card.
> >  What is zero-compromise horns, btw? And what is this portrayal of 'no fear,
> >  no obstacles' philosophy here?
> >
> >  One can also not buy the argument that horns are like all other approved
> >  auto products with high environmental standards. Everything fixed on a
> >  motorized vehicle may be 'approved' but not necessarily harmless. It is
> >  always the thousand horns blowing at a time, which make life miserable in
> >  cities.
> >
> >  Finally, it is never about one commercial or this commercial per say. but
> >  is always about how 'just' are we. We understand that advertisers have to
> >  exaggerate things but we also bane cigarette commercials. Personally, I
> >  think horn commercials are as contagious, powerful and anti-social as
> >  cigarette commercials and they should be banned. There are also double
> >  standards here on the company's part. Would they have the same commercial
in
> >  their European market?
> >
> >  best,
> >  Rutul.
> >
> >  PS: As an awareness campaign, I would borrow Madhav's idea. One day, all
> >  the pedestrians in the city should move around with horns! Would they
> >  out-number the car horns?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  ________________________________
> >  From: Sunny Kodukula<sunny.enie@...>
> >  To: Kanthi Kannan<kanthikannan@...>
> >  Cc: sustran-discuss@...
> >  Sent: Thu, 19 November, 2009 11:46:39 AM
> >  Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
> >
> >  Sorry Kanthi, I am not satisfied and when a pedestrian is treated like a
> >  moving "thing" on the street (not even a road) which will make way with
> >  sound, this is really sad and also not treating other humans alike,
> >  forget the animals that's another story for the blue cross.
> >
> >  I like the word pedestrian "indiscipline", if the people walk on roads
> >  it is indiscipline and cars go in the middle of two lanes it is
> >  perfectly fine. Our cities we try to control the people who cross the
> >  roads at grade than trying to control the cars that do not stick to
> >  lanes. Anyway, Who is Bosch to decide what pedestrian indiscipline is!
> >
> >  The lady in the commercial always had the option to leave her car behind
> >  and walk in the "narrow" street. So Bosch is actually supporting people
> >  driving cars in narrow streets and also to honk.
> >
> >  those were my 2 cents
> >
> >  cheers
> >  sunny
> >
> >
> >  On 19/11/09 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan wrote:
> >  >  Dear all
> >  >
> >  >  Greetings!!
> >  >
> >  >  I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please
> >  do
> >  >  go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> >  satisfied
> >  >  and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. (
My
> >  >  feeling many of you might not share it).
> >  >
> >  >  Regards
> >  >
> >  >  Kanthi Kannan
> >  >
> >  >  THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> >  >
> >  >    "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> >  >  products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> >  >  Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it
what
> >  >  the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> >  >  pedestrian indiscipline.
> >  >
> >  >  The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver
would
> >  >  encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> >  >  argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> >  >  intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> >  >  commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and
> >  her
> >  >  path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes
the
> >  >  young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> >  >  risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> >  >  hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way.
They
> >  >  don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> >  >  certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
> >  >
> >  >  --------------------------------------------------------
> >  >  To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> >  >  http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >  >
> >  >  --------------------------------------------------------
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> >  sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >  >
> >  >  ================================================================
> >  >  SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> >  equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> >  (the 'Global South').
> >  >
> >
> >  --------------------------------------------------------
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> >  http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> >  --------------------------------------------------------
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> >
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> >  equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> >  (the 'Global South').
> >
> >
> >
> >        Keep up with people you care about with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn how.
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> >  --------------------------------------------------------
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> >
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> >
> >  ================================================================
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> >  equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> >  (the 'Global South').
> >
>
>
>
>

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and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

Dear Rutal

excellent discussions

an eye for an eye would make everybody blind :-)

yes, first we need to look at our own Noise pollution standards.. many
countries still don't have one yet..... Even in India for mixed landuse we
don't have anything for them. In India we have them for industrial,
commercial and residential areas. Latest ambient air quality standards
propose uniform standards across the city - why different for noise?

people trying to improve accessibility live next to roads - paying huge
rentals, living in 60-100 db noise and breathing most polluted air.....

SG


2009/11/19 Rutul Joshi <joshirutul@...>

> I agree with Sunny, Madhav and Sujit.
> Let me draw your attention to the voice overs when the 'helpless woman' is
> stuck in front of 'the mob(!)'. The voice over says, "I am not afraid of
> obstacles" and the male voice, " zero compromise horns from Bosch...when
> there is no compromise, there is no fear!" She blows horn because she is not
> afraid of 'obstacles'! It is an outright pro-honking commercial which
> aggressively potrays the priority of car-users over the pedestrians. I do
> not think that anyone can legitimize it by using the 'helpless woman' card.
> What is zero-compromise horns, btw? And what is this portrayal of 'no fear,
> no obstacles' philosophy here?
>
> One can also not buy the argument that horns are like all other approved
> auto products with high environmental standards. Everything fixed on a
> motorized vehicle may be 'approved' but not necessarily harmless. It is
> always the thousand horns blowing at a time, which make life miserable in
> cities.
>
> Finally, it is never about one commercial or this commercial per say. but
> is always about how 'just' are we. We understand that advertisers have to
> exaggerate things but we also bane cigarette commercials. Personally, I
> think horn commercials are as contagious, powerful and anti-social as
> cigarette commercials and they should be banned. There are also double
> standards here on the company's part. Would they have the same commercial in
> their European market?
>
> best,
> Rutul.
>
> PS: As an awareness campaign, I would borrow Madhav's idea. One day, all
> the pedestrians in the city should move around with horns! Would they
> out-number the car horns?
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sunny Kodukula <sunny.enie@...>
> To: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>
> Cc: sustran-discuss@...
> Sent: Thu, 19 November, 2009 11:46:39 AM
> Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial
>
> Sorry Kanthi, I am not satisfied and when a pedestrian is treated like a
> moving "thing" on the street (not even a road) which will make way with
> sound, this is really sad and also not treating other humans alike,
> forget the animals that's another story for the blue cross.
>
> I like the word pedestrian "indiscipline", if the people walk on roads
> it is indiscipline and cars go in the middle of two lanes it is
> perfectly fine. Our cities we try to control the people who cross the
> roads at grade than trying to control the cars that do not stick to
> lanes. Anyway, Who is Bosch to decide what pedestrian indiscipline is!
>
> The lady in the commercial always had the option to leave her car behind
> and walk in the "narrow" street. So Bosch is actually supporting people
> driving cars in narrow streets and also to honk.
>
> those were my 2 cents
>
> cheers
> sunny
>
>
> On 19/11/09 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan wrote:
> > Dear all
> >
> > Greetings!!
> >
> > I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please
> do
> > go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> satisfied
> > and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> > feeling many of you might not share it).
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kanthi Kannan
> >
> > THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
> >
> >   "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> > products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> > Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> > the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> > pedestrian indiscipline.
> >
> > The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> > encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> > argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> > intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> > commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and
> her
> > path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> > young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> > risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> > hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> > don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> > certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>
>
>
>       Keep up with people you care about with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn how.
> http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/connectmore
> --------------------------------------------------------
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>
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>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>



--
Sudhir Gota
Transport Specialist
CAI-Asia Center
Unit 3510, 35th Floor, Robinsons-Equitable Tower,
ADB Avenue, Ortigas Center, Pasig City
Metro Manila, Philippines 1605
Tel: +63-2-395-2843
Fax: +63-2-395-2846
http://www.cleanairnet.org/caiasia
Skype : sudhirgota
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SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

I agree with Sunny, Madhav and Sujit.
Let me draw your attention to the voice overs when the 'helpless woman' is stuck
in front of 'the mob(!)'. The voice over says, "I am not afraid of obstacles"
and the male voice, " zero compromise horns from Bosch...when there is no
compromise, there is no fear!" She blows horn because she is not afraid of
'obstacles'! It is an outright pro-honking commercial which aggressively potrays
the priority of car-users over the pedestrians. I do not think that anyone can
legitimize it by using the 'helpless woman' card. What is zero-compromise horns,
btw? And what is this portrayal of 'no fear, no obstacles' philosophy here?

One can also not buy the argument that horns are like all other approved auto
products with high environmental standards. Everything fixed on a motorized
vehicle may be 'approved' but not necessarily harmless. It is always the
thousand horns blowing at a time, which make life miserable in cities.

Finally, it is never about one commercial or this commercial per say. but is
always about how 'just' are we. We understand that advertisers have to
exaggerate things but we also bane cigarette commercials. Personally, I think
horn commercials are as contagious, powerful and anti-social as cigarette
commercials and they should be banned. There are also double standards here on
the company's part. Would they have the same commercial in their European
market?

best,
Rutul.

PS: As an awareness campaign, I would borrow Madhav's idea. One day, all the
pedestrians in the city should move around with horns! Would they out-number the
car horns?





________________________________
From: Sunny Kodukula <sunny.enie@...>
To: Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>
Cc: sustran-discuss@...
Sent: Thu, 19 November, 2009 11:46:39 AM
Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial

Sorry Kanthi, I am not satisfied and when a pedestrian is treated like a
moving "thing" on the street (not even a road) which will make way with
sound, this is really sad and also not treating other humans alike,
forget the animals that's another story for the blue cross.

I like the word pedestrian "indiscipline", if the people walk on roads
it is indiscipline and cars go in the middle of two lanes it is
perfectly fine. Our cities we try to control the people who cross the
roads at grade than trying to control the cars that do not stick to
lanes. Anyway, Who is Bosch to decide what pedestrian indiscipline is!

The lady in the commercial always had the option to leave her car behind
and walk in the "narrow" street. So Bosch is actually supporting people
driving cars in narrow streets and also to honk.

those were my 2 cents

cheers
sunny


On 19/11/09 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan wrote:
> Dear all
>
> Greetings!!
>
> I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please do
> go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally satisfied
> and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> feeling many of you might not share it).
>
> Regards
>
> Kanthi Kannan
>
> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
>
>   "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> pedestrian indiscipline.
>
> The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and her
> path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').
>

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and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').



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South').

Dear all





Greetings!!





Any idea as to who is representing India in the First Global Ministerial
Conference on Road Safety.





Thanks and Regards


Kanthi Kannan





THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK










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South').

Good points.

I can only quote one example, close to my residence in Delhi.

Along the BRT lane, there is a provision for the  cyclists, 2 meter lane,
which is a great idea. As you get close to the Chirag Dili flyover (from
north), because of the increasing congestion at the junction, the traffic
management decided to convert at least 200m of the cycle lane into a left
only lane for the motor vehicles.

Which is also fine, helps with the congestion and speed up the left turns
(India - we drive on the left side). Now, the annoying thing is when car
drivers honk at the cycles and cycle rickshaws who are in the lane and
obviously going slower than them.. drivers get annoyed at their presence.
And I get annoyed at the drivers honking !!

So, two questions.. (1) driver's indiscipline when given an opportunity to
use a section which does not belong to them and (2) when did a plan for
promoting NMT become an excuse for road expansion?

With regards,
Sarath
(Not a Car Owner)

--
Sarath Guttikunda
New Delhi, India
Phone: +91 9891 315 946
@ http://www.urbanemissions.info
@ http://www.dri.edu/People/Sarath.Guttikunda/


On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Sunny Kodukula <sunny.enie@...>wrote:

> Sorry Kanthi, I am not satisfied and when a pedestrian is treated like a
> moving "thing" on the street (not even a road) which will make way with
> sound, this is really sad and also not treating other humans alike,
> forget the animals that's another story for the blue cross.
>
> I like the word pedestrian "indiscipline", if the people walk on roads
> it is indiscipline and cars go in the middle of two lanes it is
> perfectly fine. Our cities we try to control the people who cross the
> roads at grade than trying to control the cars that do not stick to
> lanes. Anyway, Who is Bosch to decide what pedestrian indiscipline is!
>
> The lady in the commercial always had the option to leave her car behind
> and walk in the "narrow" street. So Bosch is actually supporting people
> driving cars in narrow streets and also to honk.
>
> those were my 2 cents
>
> cheers
> sunny
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

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and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

Sorry Kanthi, I am not satisfied and when a pedestrian is treated like a
moving "thing" on the street (not even a road) which will make way with
sound, this is really sad and also not treating other humans alike,
forget the animals that's another story for the blue cross.

I like the word pedestrian "indiscipline", if the people walk on roads
it is indiscipline and cars go in the middle of two lanes it is
perfectly fine. Our cities we try to control the people who cross the
roads at grade than trying to control the cars that do not stick to
lanes. Anyway, Who is Bosch to decide what pedestrian indiscipline is!

The lady in the commercial always had the option to leave her car behind
and walk in the "narrow" street. So Bosch is actually supporting people
driving cars in narrow streets and also to honk.

those were my 2 cents

cheers
sunny


On 19/11/09 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan wrote:
> Dear all
>
> Greetings!!
>
> I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please do
> go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally satisfied
> and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> feeling many of you might not share it).
>
> Regards
>
> Kanthi Kannan
>
> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
>
>   "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> pedestrian indiscipline.
>
> The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and her
> path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').
>

--------------------------------------------------------
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--------------------------------------------------------
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and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

I completely agree with Sujit. Will these cars back off and make way for
pedestrians if they use an equally annoying horn (I don't recommend
doing it). The response is based on their extremly car-centric view of
the World. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill it
seems, what about the beautiful humans that she plans runover if they
don't yeild to her Bosch horn.

Madhav

-----Original Message-----
From: sustran-discuss-bounces+mpai=wri.org@...
[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+mpai=wri.org@...] On Behalf
Of Sujit Patwardhan
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:21 AM
To: Kanthi Kannan
Cc: sustran-discuss@...
Subject: [sustran] Re: FW: India - Bosch Horn commercial

Sorry Kanthi,

Not at all convincing.

If you are NOT a car driver and stuck in a traffic jam what do you do?
Justifying blowing the horn (in a manacing manner anyway) implies you
agree with the law of the jungle. It is a warning to non-car users to
get out of the way or else !!

If all are suck in a jam why should any one move aside and make way for
the car? No one moves out of the way for a cyclist or a pedestrian and
Sustainable Transportation Vision is trying to change precisely this
outdated attitude/vision.

The explanation given by the Advertising Agency is nothing but an excuse
to our continuing to accept Car Domination.

Sorry doesn't cut any ice with me.

--
Sujit







On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan
<kanthikannan@...>wrote:

> Dear all
>
>
>
> Greetings!!
>
>
>
> I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say.
> Please do go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am
> personally satisfied and feel that there is no need to take this up at

> a different level. ( My feeling many of you might not share it).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Kanthi Kannan
>
>
>
> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All
> Bosch products comply with the highest environmental standards
worldwide.
> Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it
> what the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to
> promote pedestrian indiscipline.
>
> The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver
> would encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a

> heated argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic,
> without intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady
> driver in the commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to
> block the road and her path. The volatility of the situation in the
> commercial is what makes the young lady choose to stay in her car and
> not put herself at any personal risk. Her conspicuous, brightly
> colored car at a standstill, she waits, hoping they will notice her
> clear the road, giving her right of way. They don't. She looks
> helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is certainly not a
case of indiscriminate honking."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the
> real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
> countries (the 'Global South').
>



--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment to
destroy the city"

Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel
Munich 1970

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Sujit Patwardhan
patwardhan.sujit@...
sujitjp@...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India
Tel: +91 20 25537955
Cell: +91 98220 26627
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
Parisar: www.parisar.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
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================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
(the 'Global South').
--------------------------------------------------------
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--------------------------------------------------------
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================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

Sorry Kanthi,

Not at all convincing.

If you are NOT a car driver and stuck in a traffic jam what do you do?
Justifying blowing the horn (in a manacing manner anyway) implies you agree
with the law of the jungle. It is a warning to non-car users to get out of
the way or else !!

If all are suck in a jam why should any one move aside and make way for the
car? No one moves out of the way for a cyclist or a pedestrian and
Sustainable Transportation Vision is trying to change precisely this
outdated attitude/vision.

The explanation given by the Advertising Agency is nothing but an excuse to
our continuing to accept Car Domination.

Sorry doesn't cut any ice with me.

--
Sujit







On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>wrote:

> Dear all
>
>
>
> Greetings!!
>
>
>
> I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please do
> go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> satisfied
> and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> feeling many of you might not share it).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Kanthi Kannan
>
>
>
> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> pedestrian indiscipline.
>
> The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and her
> path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>



--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
�..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment
to destroy the city�

Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel
Munich 1970

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Sujit Patwardhan
patwardhan.sujit@...
sujitjp@...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India
Tel: +91 20 25537955
Cell: +91 98220 26627
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
Parisar: www.parisar.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

Very Convincing...
--Vissu.
On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Kanthi Kannan <kanthikannan@...>wrote:

> Dear all
>
>
>
> Greetings!!
>
>
>
> I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please do
> go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally
> satisfied
> and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
> feeling many of you might not share it).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Kanthi Kannan
>
>
>
> THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
> products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
> Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
> the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
> pedestrian indiscipline.
>
> The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
> encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
> argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
> intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
> commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and her
> path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
> young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
> risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
> hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
> don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
> certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>



--
Vissu

Support Akshaya patra: Unlimited food for education (
http://www.akshayapatra.org/donate.html)
Every small contribution makes a difference.
--------------------------------------------------------
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--------------------------------------------------------
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================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

Dear all



Greetings!!



I have contacted the ad agency and here is what they have to say. Please do
go through it and check whether it is acceptable.  I am personally satisfied
and feel that there is no need to take this up at a different level. ( My
feeling many of you might not share it).







Regards

Kanthi Kannan



THOSE WHO WALK CANNOT DECIDE AND THOSE WHO DECIDE DO NOT WALK







  "Horns are approved standard equipment in all auto products. All Bosch
products comply with the highest environmental standards worldwide.
Indiscriminate honking is not a practice Bosch encourages. Nor is it what
the Bosch Horns TVC promotes. As much as it does not seek to promote
pedestrian indiscipline.

The commercial  reflects (and possibly exaggerates) what any driver would
encounter on any given day in most busy city streets: a mob in a heated
argument in the middle of a narrow road, blocking all traffic, without
intending to do so. Clearly the mob before the young lady driver in the
commercial do not pay her any heed and a continue to block the road and her
path. The volatility of the situation in the commercial is what makes the
young lady choose to stay in her car and not put herself at any personal
risk. Her conspicuous, brightly colored car at a standstill, she waits,
hoping they will notice her clear the road, giving her right of way. They
don't. She looks helpless. As a last resort she blows her horn. It is
certainly not a case of indiscriminate honking."












--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
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================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

I wrote yesterday to the CSR Department of Bosch to find out about how
this complies with their CSR-policy.
No response yet
Best
Christof

Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory schrieb:
> Recently, some German companies have pulled out of activities which they
> would probably not be able to do on German soil (e.g. some mega
> hydropower projects).
>
> So, with that as a starting point, I wonder if the German-India Chamber
> of Commerce (or something like that) can be contacted or even shamed
> about this. Perhaps someone reading has relevant contacts in Germany
> and/or India and can say something...
>
> - T
>
>
> Carlosfelipe Pardo wrote:
>
>> We can also flag the video as inappropriate in youtube...
>>
>> Sujit Patwardhan wrote:
>>
>>> Sudhir,
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzJFp6tfKU
>>>
>>> Someone really needs to drag Bosch to court (not just to the Ad Council) for
>>> promoting Noise Pollution. Should we forward it to the Ministry for
>>> Environment? It sure encourages violation of the Noise Pollution Act
>>> --
>>> Sujit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Alan Howes
<alan@...>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks for that Todd - brilliant! And I always thought Americans had no
>>>> sense of humo[u]r! <GRD>
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, I find it entirely believable that such ads work in India.
>>>> There is an appalling UK motorheads' TV programme called Top Gear, that is
>>>> exceptionally popular in India and a load of other "developing country"
>>>> markets - makes the Beeb a pile in export earnings. :-(
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Alan Howes, Dunblane, Perthshire, Scotland
>>>> email:    alan@...
>>>> tel:        +44 (0)1786 822974
>>>> mobile:  +44 (0)7952 464335
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+alan=ourpeagreenboat.co.uk@...
>>>> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan <sustran-discuss-bounces%2Balan>=
>>>> ourpeagreenboat.co.uk@...]
>>>> On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory
>>>> Sent: 15 November 2009 09:42
>>>> To: sustran-discuss@...
>>>> Cc: info@...
>>>> Subject: [sustran] Re: India - Bosch Horn commercial
>>>>
>>>> Hi Rutul,
>>>>
>>>> Bosch could NEVER get away with an advert like that on German television.
>>>>
>>>> In 2007, the satirical Onion publication came up with something on this
>>>> theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxgkHQp8Pds
>>>>
>>>> - T
>>>>
>>>> Rutul Joshi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Few days ago, some enthusiasts in Ahmedabad initiated the 'no honking
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> day'
>>>> in the city. While some people are trying hard to make such initiatives a
>>>> sucess, the TV commercials preach something else all together.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> This TV commercial 'promotes' honking as a powerful way to ease
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> 'congestion'! From start to the end - this commercial has all the possible
>>>> wrong elements.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzJFp6tfKU
>>>>>
>>>>> Majority of the roads in metro cities in India have noise pollution above
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> 80 decibels. Shouldn't such commercials be banned?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> best,
>>>>> Rutul.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rutul Joshi,
>>>>> Lecturer, Faculty of Planning and Public Policy,
>>>>> CEPT University, Ahmedabad - 380 009.
>>>>> Contact: +91-79-26302470-134(ext.) Mob: +91-99240 76451
>>>>> www.spcept.ac.in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       Connect more, do more and share more with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> more. http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>>>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
>>>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ================================================================
>>>>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>>>> (the 'Global South').
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Todd Edelman
>>>> Green Idea Factory
>>>>
>>>> Urbanstr. 45
>>>> D-10967 Berlin
>>>> Germany
>>>>
>>>> Skype: toddedelman
>>>> Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081
>>>>
>>>> edelman@...
>>>> www.greenidea.eu
>>>> www.flickr.com/photos/edelman
>>>>
>>>> CAR* is over. If you want it.
>>>>
>>>> "Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
>>>> - B. Brecht (with slight modification)
>>>>
>>>> * "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
>>>> opportunistically or without creativity
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>>>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
>>>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>>>>
>>>> ================================================================
>>>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>>>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>>>> (the 'Global South').
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>>>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
>>>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>>>>
>>>> ================================================================
>>>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>>>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>>>> (the 'Global South').
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>>
>> ================================================================
>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').
>>
>
>
>

--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
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================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

Recently, some German companies have pulled out of activities which they
would probably not be able to do on German soil (e.g. some mega
hydropower projects).

So, with that as a starting point, I wonder if the German-India Chamber
of Commerce (or something like that) can be contacted or even shamed
about this. Perhaps someone reading has relevant contacts in Germany
and/or India and can say something...

- T


Carlosfelipe Pardo wrote:
> We can also flag the video as inappropriate in youtube...
>
> Sujit Patwardhan wrote:
>> Sudhir,
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzJFp6tfKU
>>
>> Someone really needs to drag Bosch to court (not just to the Ad Council) for
>> promoting Noise Pollution. Should we forward it to the Ministry for
>> Environment? It sure encourages violation of the Noise Pollution Act
>> --
>> Sujit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Alan Howes
<alan@...>wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Thanks for that Todd - brilliant! And I always thought Americans had no
>>> sense of humo[u]r! <GRD>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, I find it entirely believable that such ads work in India.
>>> There is an appalling UK motorheads' TV programme called Top Gear, that is
>>> exceptionally popular in India and a load of other "developing country"
>>> markets - makes the Beeb a pile in export earnings. :-(
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alan Howes, Dunblane, Perthshire, Scotland
>>> email:    alan@...
>>> tel:        +44 (0)1786 822974
>>> mobile:  +44 (0)7952 464335
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+alan=ourpeagreenboat.co.uk@...
>>> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan <sustran-discuss-bounces%2Balan>=
>>> ourpeagreenboat.co.uk@...]
>>> On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory
>>> Sent: 15 November 2009 09:42
>>> To: sustran-discuss@...
>>> Cc: info@...
>>> Subject: [sustran] Re: India - Bosch Horn commercial
>>>
>>> Hi Rutul,
>>>
>>> Bosch could NEVER get away with an advert like that on German television.
>>>
>>> In 2007, the satirical Onion publication came up with something on this
>>> theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxgkHQp8Pds
>>>
>>> - T
>>>
>>> Rutul Joshi wrote:
>>>
>>>> Few days ago, some enthusiasts in Ahmedabad initiated the 'no honking
>>>>
>>> day'
>>> in the city. While some people are trying hard to make such initiatives a
>>> sucess, the TV commercials preach something else all together.
>>>
>>>> This TV commercial 'promotes' honking as a powerful way to ease
>>>>
>>> 'congestion'! From start to the end - this commercial has all the possible
>>> wrong elements.
>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzJFp6tfKU
>>>>
>>>> Majority of the roads in metro cities in India have noise pollution above
>>>>
>>> 80 decibels. Shouldn't such commercials be banned?
>>>
>>>> best,
>>>> Rutul.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rutul Joshi,
>>>> Lecturer, Faculty of Planning and Public Policy,
>>>> CEPT University, Ahmedabad - 380 009.
>>>> Contact: +91-79-26302470-134(ext.) Mob: +91-99240 76451
>>>> www.spcept.ac.in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>       Connect more, do more and share more with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn
>>>>
>>> more. http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/
>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>>>>
>>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
>>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>>>
>>>> ================================================================
>>>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>>>>
>>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>>> (the 'Global South').
>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Todd Edelman
>>> Green Idea Factory
>>>
>>> Urbanstr. 45
>>> D-10967 Berlin
>>> Germany
>>>
>>> Skype: toddedelman
>>> Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081
>>>
>>> edelman@...
>>> www.greenidea.eu
>>> www.flickr.com/photos/edelman
>>>
>>> CAR* is over. If you want it.
>>>
>>> "Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
>>> - B. Brecht (with slight modification)
>>>
>>> * "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
>>> opportunistically or without creativity
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
>>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>>>
>>> ================================================================
>>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>>> (the 'Global South').
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>>> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>>> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
>>> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>>>
>>> ================================================================
>>> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>>> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
>>> (the 'Global South').
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').


--
--------------------------------------------

Todd Edelman
Green Idea Factory

Urbanstr. 45
D-10967 Berlin
Germany

Skype: toddedelman
Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081

edelman@...
www.greenidea.eu
www.flickr.com/photos/edelman

CAR* is over. If you want it.

"Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
- B. Brecht (with slight modification)

* "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
opportunistically or without creativity

--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

Sudhir,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzJFp6tfKU
Someone really needs to drag Bosch to court (not just to the Ad Council) for
promoting Noise Pollution. Should we forward it to the Ministry for
Environment? It sure encourages violation of the Noise Pollution Act
--
Sujit
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Alan Howes <alan@...>wrote:

Thanks for that Todd - brilliant! And I always thought Americans had no
sense of humo[u]r! <GRD>
Unfortunately, I find it entirely believable that such ads work in India.
There is an appalling UK motorheads' TV programme called Top Gear, that is
exceptionally popular in India and a load of other "developing country"
markets - makes the Beeb a pile in export earnings. :-(
--
Alan Howes, Dunblane, Perthshire, Scotland
email: alan@...
tel: +44 (0)1786 822974
mobile: +44 (0)7952 464335
-----Original Message-----
From: sustran-discuss-bounces+alan=ourpeagreenboat.co.uk@...
[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan <sustran-discuss-bounces%2Balan>=
ourpeagreenboat.co.uk@...]
On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory
Sent: 15 November 2009 09:42
To: sustran-discuss@...
Cc: info@...
Subject: [sustran] Re: India - Bosch Horn commercial
Hi Rutul,
Bosch could NEVER get away with an advert like that on German television.
In 2007, the satirical Onion publication came up with something on this
theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxgkHQp8Pds
- T
Rutul Joshi wrote:

Few days ago, some enthusiasts in Ahmedabad initiated the 'no honking

day'
in the city. While some people are trying hard to make such initiatives a
sucess, the TV commercials preach something else all together.

This TV commercial 'promotes' honking as a powerful way to ease

'congestion'! From start to the end - this commercial has all the possible
wrong elements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzJFp6tfKU
Majority of the roads in metro cities in India have noise pollution above

80 decibels. Shouldn't such commercials be banned?

best,
Rutul.
Rutul Joshi,
Lecturer, Faculty of Planning and Public Policy,
CEPT University, Ahmedabad - 380 009.
Contact: +91-79-26302470-134(ext.) Mob: +91-99240 76451
www.spcept.ac.in
Connect more, do more and share more with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn

more. http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/

--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to

http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,

equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
(the 'Global South').

--
--------------------------------------------
Todd Edelman
Green Idea Factory
Urbanstr. 45
D-10967 Berlin
Germany
Skype: toddedelman
Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081
edelman@...
www.greenidea.eu
www.flickr.com/photos/edelman
CAR* is over. If you want it.
"Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
- B. Brecht (with slight modification)
* "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
opportunistically or without creativity
--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
(the 'Global South').
--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
(the 'Global South').

--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

Various cities in India are making great efforts in improving their
existing transport infrastructure with innovative technologies, modern
transport systems and shifting focus towards sustainable modes of
transportation such as Mass transit and Non-Motorised Transport. While
most of these efforts are addressing the supply side issues of
transportation, there is great work that is required in understanding
and implementing demand management strategies.

To address the above issues, GTZ jointly with the Ministry of Urban
Development (MoUD), Institute of Urban Transport (IUT), Urban Mass
Transit Company (UMTC), Centre for Environment Planning and Technology
(CEPT), LTA Academy, Singapore, will organise a 1-day training
course/workshop on “Transportation Demand Management (TDM)” on the 02
December 2009 as a pre-event to the IUT/MoUD conference.

The event will be held at Terrace Suite, 1st Floor, The Ambassador
Hotel, Sujan Singh Park (Near Khan Market), New Delhi.

Various national and international experts from the partnering
organisations will bring forward their experiences in the form of
discussions and presentations during this one-day event.
<http://www.sutp.org/documents/TDM-02-12-Agenda.pdf>

All the participants will receive soft copies of the presentations and
also a hard copy of the GTZ document on "Transportation Demand
Management". There is no participation fee for the course and all the
participants will be served coffee and lunch at the course.

For the draft agenda:
http://www.sutp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1795&Itemid=1&lang\
=uk

More information can be had by sending an email to Mr. Santhosh Kodukula
: santhosh.kodukula@...

--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

Hi all,

I think we have their attention...

*"Adding comments has been disabled for this video." now appears at the
You Tube link.

- T

*Sujit Patwardhan wrote:
>
>
> Sudhir,
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzJFp6tfKU
>
> Someone really needs to drag Bosch to court (not just to the Ad
> Council) for promoting Noise Pollution. Should we forward it to the
> Ministry for Environment? It sure encourages violation of the Noise
> Pollution Act
> --
> Sujit
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Alan Howes
> <alan@... <mailto:alan@...>> wrote:
>
>     Thanks for that Todd - brilliant! And I always thought Americans
>     had no
>     sense of humo[u]r! <GRD>
>
>     Unfortunately, I find it entirely believable that such ads work in
>     India.
>     There is an appalling UK motorheads' TV programme called Top Gear,
>     that is
>     exceptionally popular in India and a load of other "developing
>     country"
>     markets - makes the Beeb a pile in export earnings. :-(
>
>     --
>     Alan Howes, Dunblane, Perthshire, Scotland
>     email:    alan@...
>     <mailto:alan@...>
>     tel:        +44 (0)1786 822974
>     mobile:  +44 (0)7952 464335
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: sustran-discuss-bounces+alan=ourpeagreenboat.co.uk
>     <http://ourpeagreenboat.co.uk>@list.jca.apc.org
>     <http://list.jca.apc.org>
>     [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan
>     <mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces%2Balan>=ourpeagreenboat.co.uk
>     <http://ourpeagreenboat.co.uk>@list.jca.apc.org
>     <http://list.jca.apc.org>]
>     On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory
>     Sent: 15 November 2009 09:42
>     To: sustran-discuss@...
>     <mailto:sustran-discuss@...>
>     Cc: info@... <mailto:info@...>
>     Subject: [sustran] Re: India - Bosch Horn commercial
>
>     Hi Rutul,
>
>     Bosch could NEVER get away with an advert like that on German
>     television.
>
>     In 2007, the satirical Onion publication came up with something on
>     this
>     theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxgkHQp8Pds
>
>     - T
>
>     Rutul Joshi wrote:
>     > Few days ago, some enthusiasts in Ahmedabad initiated the 'no
>     honking day'
>     in the city. While some people are trying hard to make such
>     initiatives a
>     sucess, the TV commercials preach something else all together.
>     > This TV commercial 'promotes' honking as a powerful way to ease
>     'congestion'! From start to the end - this commercial has all the
>     possible
>     wrong elements.
>     > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzJFp6tfKU
>     >
>     > Majority of the roads in metro cities in India have noise
>     pollution above
>     80 decibels. Shouldn't such commercials be banned?
>     >
>     > best,
>     > Rutul.
>     >
>     >
>     > Rutul Joshi,
>     > Lecturer, Faculty of Planning and Public Policy,
>     > CEPT University, Ahmedabad - 380 009.
>     > Contact: +91-79-26302470-134(ext.) Mob: +91-99240 76451
>     > www.spcept.ac.in <http://www.spcept.ac.in>
>     >
>     >
>     >       Connect more, do more and share more with Yahoo! India
>     Mail. Learn
>     more. http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/
>     > --------------------------------------------------------
>     > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>     > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>     >
>     > --------------------------------------------------------
>     > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>     http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join
>     the real
>     sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>     >
>     > ================================================================
>     > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>     equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
>     countries
>     (the 'Global South').
>     >
>     >
>
>
>     --
>     --------------------------------------------
>
>     Todd Edelman
>     Green Idea Factory
>
>     Urbanstr. 45
>     D-10967 Berlin
>     Germany
>
>     Skype: toddedelman
>     Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081
>
>     edelman@... <mailto:edelman@...>
>     www.greenidea.eu <http://www.greenidea.eu>
>     www.flickr.com/photos/edelman <http://www.flickr.com/photos/edelman>
>
>     CAR* is over. If you want it.
>
>     "Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
>     - B. Brecht (with slight modification)
>
>     * "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used
>     inappropriately,
>     opportunistically or without creativity
>
>     --------------------------------------------------------
>     To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>     http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
>     --------------------------------------------------------
>     If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>     http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join
>     the real
>     sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
>     ================================================================
>     SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
>     equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing
>     countries
>     (the 'Global South').
>
>     --------------------------------------------------------
>     To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
>     http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
>     --------------------------------------------------------
>     If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
>     http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join
>     the real sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
>     ================================================================
>     SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of
>     people-centred, equitable and sustainable transport with a focus
>     on developing countries (the 'Global South').
>
>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> �..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment
> to destroy the city�
>
> Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel
> Munich 1970
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sujit Patwardhan
> patwardhan.sujit@... <mailto:patwardhan.sujit@...>
> sujitjp@... <mailto:sujitjp@...>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
> Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India
> Tel: +91 20 25537955
> Cell: +91 98220 26627
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
> Parisar: www.parisar.org <http://www.parisar.org>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
>


--
--------------------------------------------

Todd Edelman
Green Idea Factory

Urbanstr. 45
D-10967 Berlin
Germany

Skype: toddedelman
Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081

edelman@...
www.greenidea.eu
www.flickr.com/photos/edelman

CAR* is over. If you want it.

"Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
- B. Brecht (with slight modification)

* "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
opportunistically or without creativity

--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

Hi Sujit and others,

It is great to see that you are sharing the concern. Something should be done
about such 'anti-environment' commercials. Though I don't know what and how.
It is surprising that these global companies have different standards for
different countries! I saw other German Bosch commercials which promote their
'green' products. And here they are getting away with this in India. There are
other Bosch India commercials available on you tube which conveniently present
how the cars and their accessories help to dominate the roads.

Rutul.



________________________________
From: Sujit Patwardhan <patwardhan.sujit@...>
To: Alan Howes <alan@...>
Cc: Sudhir Badami <sudhirbadami@...>; info@...;
sustran-discuss@...
Sent: Wed, 18 November, 2009 12:35:06 AM
Subject: [sustran] Re: India - Bosch Horn commercial

Dear Alan and Tod,
Someone should lodge a complaint with the Advertising Council which is
supposed to be a watchdog organization to control offensive and deceptive
advertisements. will try to locate some activists working on the noise
pollution issue. I didn't find the email ID of the person who wrote about
this first - Rutul Joshi from Ahmedabad, but will locate someone who will do
the honours.
--
Sujit


cc: Sudhir Badami, Mumbai

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Alan Howes <alan@...>wrote:

> Thanks for that Todd - brilliant! And I always thought Americans had no
> sense of humo[u]r! <GRD>
>
> Unfortunately, I find it entirely believable that such ads work in India.
> There is an appalling UK motorheads' TV programme called Top Gear, that is
> exceptionally popular in India and a load of other "developing country"
> markets - makes the Beeb a pile in export earnings. :-(
>
> --
> Alan Howes, Dunblane, Perthshire, Scotland
> email:    alan@...
> tel:        +44 (0)1786 822974
> mobile:  +44 (0)7952 464335
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+alan=ourpeagreenboat.co.uk@...
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan <sustran-discuss-bounces%2Balan>=
> ourpeagreenboat.co.uk@...]
> On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory
> Sent: 15 November 2009 09:42
> To: sustran-discuss@...
> Cc: info@...
> Subject: [sustran] Re: India - Bosch Horn commercial
>
> Hi Rutul,
>
> Bosch could NEVER get away with an advert like that on German television.
>
> In 2007, the satirical Onion publication came up with something on this
> theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxgkHQp8Pds
>
> - T
>
> Rutul Joshi wrote:
> > Few days ago, some enthusiasts in Ahmedabad initiated the 'no honking
> day'
> in the city. While some people are trying hard to make such initiatives a
> sucess, the TV commercials preach something else all together.
> > This TV commercial 'promotes' honking as a powerful way to ease
> 'congestion'! From start to the end - this commercial has all the possible
> wrong elements.
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzJFp6tfKU
> >
> > Majority of the roads in metro cities in India have noise pollution above
> 80 decibels. Shouldn't such commercials be banned?
> >
> > best,
> > Rutul.
> >
> >
> > Rutul Joshi,
> > Lecturer, Faculty of Planning and Public Policy,
> > CEPT University, Ahmedabad - 380 009.
> > Contact: +91-79-26302470-134(ext.) Mob: +91-99240 76451
> > www.spcept.ac.in
> >
> >
> >       Connect more, do more and share more with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn
> more. http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Todd Edelman
> Green Idea Factory
>
> Urbanstr. 45
> D-10967 Berlin
> Germany
>
> Skype: toddedelman
> Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081
>
> edelman@...
> www.greenidea.eu
> www.flickr.com/photos/edelman
>
> CAR* is over. If you want it.
>
> "Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
> - B. Brecht (with slight modification)
>
> * "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
> opportunistically or without creativity
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
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> ================================================================
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> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
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>
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> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>



--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
“..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment
to destroy the city“

Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel
Munich 1970

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Sujit Patwardhan
patwardhan.sujit@...
sujitjp@...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India
Tel: +91 20 25537955
Cell: +91 98220 26627
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
Parisar: www.parisar.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

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and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').



       Now, send attachments up to 25MB with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn how.
http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/photos
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Sudhir,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzJFp6tfKU

Someone really needs to drag Bosch to court (not just to the Ad Council) for
promoting Noise Pollution. Should we forward it to the Ministry for
Environment? It sure encourages violation of the Noise Pollution Act
--
Sujit




On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Alan Howes <alan@...>wrote:

> Thanks for that Todd - brilliant! And I always thought Americans had no
> sense of humo[u]r! <GRD>
>
> Unfortunately, I find it entirely believable that such ads work in India.
> There is an appalling UK motorheads' TV programme called Top Gear, that is
> exceptionally popular in India and a load of other "developing country"
> markets - makes the Beeb a pile in export earnings. :-(
>
> --
> Alan Howes, Dunblane, Perthshire, Scotland
> email:    alan@...
> tel:        +44 (0)1786 822974
> mobile:  +44 (0)7952 464335
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+alan=ourpeagreenboat.co.uk@...
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan <sustran-discuss-bounces%2Balan>=
> ourpeagreenboat.co.uk@...]
> On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory
> Sent: 15 November 2009 09:42
> To: sustran-discuss@...
> Cc: info@...
> Subject: [sustran] Re: India - Bosch Horn commercial
>
> Hi Rutul,
>
> Bosch could NEVER get away with an advert like that on German television.
>
> In 2007, the satirical Onion publication came up with something on this
> theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxgkHQp8Pds
>
> - T
>
> Rutul Joshi wrote:
> > Few days ago, some enthusiasts in Ahmedabad initiated the 'no honking
> day'
> in the city. While some people are trying hard to make such initiatives a
> sucess, the TV commercials preach something else all together.
> > This TV commercial 'promotes' honking as a powerful way to ease
> 'congestion'! From start to the end - this commercial has all the possible
> wrong elements.
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzJFp6tfKU
> >
> > Majority of the roads in metro cities in India have noise pollution above
> 80 decibels. Shouldn't such commercials be banned?
> >
> > best,
> > Rutul.
> >
> >
> > Rutul Joshi,
> > Lecturer, Faculty of Planning and Public Policy,
> > CEPT University, Ahmedabad - 380 009.
> > Contact: +91-79-26302470-134(ext.) Mob: +91-99240 76451
> > www.spcept.ac.in
> >
> >
> >       Connect more, do more and share more with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn
> more. http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Todd Edelman
> Green Idea Factory
>
> Urbanstr. 45
> D-10967 Berlin
> Germany
>
> Skype: toddedelman
> Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081
>
> edelman@...
> www.greenidea.eu
> www.flickr.com/photos/edelman
>
> CAR* is over. If you want it.
>
> "Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
> - B. Brecht (with slight modification)
>
> * "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
> opportunistically or without creativity
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>



--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
�..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment
to destroy the city�

Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel
Munich 1970

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Sujit Patwardhan
patwardhan.sujit@...
sujitjp@...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India
Tel: +91 20 25537955
Cell: +91 98220 26627
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
Parisar: www.parisar.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
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================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

Dear Alan and Tod,
Someone should lodge a complaint with the Advertising Council which is
supposed to be a watchdog organization to control offensive and deceptive
advertisements. will try to locate some activists working on the noise
pollution issue. I didn't find the email ID of the person who wrote about
this first - Rutul Joshi from Ahmedabad, but will locate someone who will do
the honours.
--
Sujit


cc: Sudhir Badami, Mumbai

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Alan Howes <alan@...>wrote:

> Thanks for that Todd - brilliant! And I always thought Americans had no
> sense of humo[u]r! <GRD>
>
> Unfortunately, I find it entirely believable that such ads work in India.
> There is an appalling UK motorheads' TV programme called Top Gear, that is
> exceptionally popular in India and a load of other "developing country"
> markets - makes the Beeb a pile in export earnings. :-(
>
> --
> Alan Howes, Dunblane, Perthshire, Scotland
> email:    alan@...
> tel:        +44 (0)1786 822974
> mobile:  +44 (0)7952 464335
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sustran-discuss-bounces+alan=ourpeagreenboat.co.uk@...
> [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan <sustran-discuss-bounces%2Balan>=
> ourpeagreenboat.co.uk@...]
> On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory
> Sent: 15 November 2009 09:42
> To: sustran-discuss@...
> Cc: info@...
> Subject: [sustran] Re: India - Bosch Horn commercial
>
> Hi Rutul,
>
> Bosch could NEVER get away with an advert like that on German television.
>
> In 2007, the satirical Onion publication came up with something on this
> theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxgkHQp8Pds
>
> - T
>
> Rutul Joshi wrote:
> > Few days ago, some enthusiasts in Ahmedabad initiated the 'no honking
> day'
> in the city. While some people are trying hard to make such initiatives a
> sucess, the TV commercials preach something else all together.
> > This TV commercial 'promotes' honking as a powerful way to ease
> 'congestion'! From start to the end - this commercial has all the possible
> wrong elements.
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzJFp6tfKU
> >
> > Majority of the roads in metro cities in India have noise pollution above
> 80 decibels. Shouldn't such commercials be banned?
> >
> > best,
> > Rutul.
> >
> >
> > Rutul Joshi,
> > Lecturer, Faculty of Planning and Public Policy,
> > CEPT University, Ahmedabad - 380 009.
> > Contact: +91-79-26302470-134(ext.) Mob: +91-99240 76451
> > www.spcept.ac.in
> >
> >
> >       Connect more, do more and share more with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn
> more. http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> > http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
> >
> > ================================================================
> > SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Todd Edelman
> Green Idea Factory
>
> Urbanstr. 45
> D-10967 Berlin
> Germany
>
> Skype: toddedelman
> Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081
>
> edelman@...
> www.greenidea.eu
> www.flickr.com/photos/edelman
>
> CAR* is over. If you want it.
>
> "Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
> - B. Brecht (with slight modification)
>
> * "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
> opportunistically or without creativity
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
> http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
> sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
> equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
> (the 'Global South').
>



--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
�..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment
to destroy the city�

Mayor Hans Joachim Vogel
Munich 1970

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Sujit Patwardhan
patwardhan.sujit@...
sujitjp@...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
Yamuna, ICS Colony, Ganeshkhind Road, Pune 411 007, India
Tel: +91 20 25537955
Cell: +91 98220 26627
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
Parisar: www.parisar.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----
--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.

================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred, equitable
and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

Thanks for that Todd - brilliant! And I always thought Americans had no
sense of humo[u]r! <GRD>

Unfortunately, I find it entirely believable that such ads work in India.
There is an appalling UK motorheads' TV programme called Top Gear, that is
exceptionally popular in India and a load of other "developing country"
markets - makes the Beeb a pile in export earnings. :-(

--
Alan Howes, Dunblane, Perthshire, Scotland
email:    alan@...
tel:        +44 (0)1786 822974
mobile:  +44 (0)7952 464335


-----Original Message-----
From: sustran-discuss-bounces+alan=ourpeagreenboat.co.uk@...
[mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+alan=ourpeagreenboat.co.uk@...]
On Behalf Of Todd Edelman, Green Idea Factory
Sent: 15 November 2009 09:42
To: sustran-discuss@...
Cc: info@...
Subject: [sustran] Re: India - Bosch Horn commercial

Hi Rutul,

Bosch could NEVER get away with an advert like that on German television.

In 2007, the satirical Onion publication came up with something on this
theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxgkHQp8Pds

- T

Rutul Joshi wrote:
> Few days ago, some enthusiasts in Ahmedabad initiated the 'no honking day'
in the city. While some people are trying hard to make such initiatives a
sucess, the TV commercials preach something else all together.
> This TV commercial 'promotes' honking as a powerful way to ease
'congestion'! From start to the end - this commercial has all the possible
wrong elements.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzJFp6tfKU
>
> Majority of the roads in metro cities in India have noise pollution above
80 decibels. Shouldn't such commercials be banned?
>
> best,
> Rutul.
>
>
> Rutul Joshi,
> Lecturer, Faculty of Planning and Public Policy,
> CEPT University, Ahmedabad - 380 009.
> Contact: +91-79-26302470-134(ext.) Mob: +91-99240 76451
> www.spcept.ac.in
>
>
>       Connect more, do more and share more with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn
more. http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/
> --------------------------------------------------------
> To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
> http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
http://list.jca.apc.org/manage/listinfo/sustran-discuss to join the real
sustran-discuss and get full membership rights.
>
> ================================================================
> SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
(the 'Global South').
>
>


--
--------------------------------------------

Todd Edelman
Green Idea Factory

Urbanstr. 45
D-10967 Berlin
Germany

Skype: toddedelman
Mobile: ++49 0162 814 4081

edelman@...
www.greenidea.eu
www.flickr.com/photos/edelman

CAR* is over. If you want it.

"Fort mit der Privatautostadt und was Neues hingebaut!"
- B. Brecht (with slight modification)

* "Car" is a sub-category of automobile, i.e. one used inappropriately,
opportunistically or without creativity

--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
If you get sustran-discuss via YAHOOGROUPS, please go to
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================================================================
SUSTRAN-DISCUSS is a forum devoted to discussion of people-centred,
equitable and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries
(the 'Global South').

--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=014715651517519735401:ijjtzwbu_ss

--------------------------------------------------------
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and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Metro+Rail+planned+in+major+\
Indian+cities&artid=85UgLKeijC4=&SectionID=Qz/kHVp9tEs=&MainSectionID=Qz/kHVp9tE\
s=&SectionName=UOaHCPTTmuP3XGzZRCAUTQ==&SEO=JNNURM


Union Urban Development Minister S Jaipal Reddy on Saturday said that the
Centre has an ambitious plan to build Metro Rail in all the major cities in
India, which have a population of two million people.After flagging off 380
BMTC city buses, Reddy said that for the Bangalore Metro Rail, likely to
cost Rs 12,000 crore for the first phase, the Centre is providing 50 pc of
financial aid with Rs 6,000 crore under JNNURM through equities, subordinate
loans and with a loan from the Japan International Cooperation Agency
(JICA). He said the JICA loan is being provided at 1.5 pc interest rate per
annum and the re-payment term is for 20 years.Reddy said the financial
assistance to procure new buses by the State Transport Undertakings under
JNNURM was not originally conceived. �Later it was added under a special
package and grants of Rs 4,723.94 crore to procure new 15,620 buses in 61
cities of India was approved and sanctioned,� he said.

He said that the JNNURM had earlier emphasised only on Urban Infrastructure
Governance (UIG) and Basic Services to Urban Poor (BSUP). Hence, 80 pc of
the JNNURM funds was provided to UIG and 20 pc to BSUP, he added.The
minister said that in Bangalore, 40 UIG projects costing Rs 2,798.21 crore,
14 BSUP projects at Rs 510.85 crore and 19,984 dwelling units were
sanctioned. �In Bangalore, a total of 54 projects and 1,000 buses were
sanctioned costing Rs 3,550.49 crore,� he said.He said that eight UIG
projects at Rs 1,044.92 crore, four BSUP projects at Rs 236.33 crore, 8,134
dwelling units and 150 buses at Rs 49.43 crore in Mysore under JNNURM, all
totaling Rs 1,331.68 crore, have also been sanctioned.He added the total
approved cost under all four components of JNNURM for Karnataka is Rs
5,652.45 crore, including 137 projects.He urged the government to try and
build liveable cities by also maintaining the quality of the environment.

The activists of Hasiru Usiru handed a petition to Jaipal Reddy, on the
controversial construction of an underpass at Tagore Circle on KR Road taken
up by the BBMP with JNNURM funds.The group has opposed the works on the
underpass.
  __._,_.___
--------------------------------------------------------
To search the archives of sustran-discuss visit
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--------------------------------------------------------
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and sustainable transport with a focus on developing countries (the 'Global
South').