Grant wrote: <<3) I think, _at least_ for the Sage, all motivation is future-regarding and _never_ present- regarding.>> Hi Grant, Since it is known that the...
33922
Grant Sterling
fccmoose
Oct 5, 2012 7:58 pm
... Malcolm: Given your comments, and Steve's, it is obvious that I wasn't clear. 1) Technical point: I think that Time is an incorporeal, because it isn't...
33923
Malcolm
malcolmschosha
Oct 6, 2012 12:44 pm
Grant wrote: <<It is metaphysically impossible for a choice to affect the present, and so it is irrational for anyone to make a choice that aims to affect the...
33924
Steve Marquis
stevemarquis...
Oct 6, 2012 8:14 pm
Hi Malcom – Your choices cannot affect the present because whatever you perceive as the present has already been caused. You do not perceive causation only...
33925
Malcolm Schosha
malcolmschosha
Oct 6, 2012 8:50 pm
I'll stand by that, Steve. The present is all we have to work with, and the only point at which we can exert choice. There is nothing in either the past, or in...
33926
Steve Marquis
stevemarquis...
Oct 6, 2012 9:48 pm
Hi Grant – ___________ It is a key idea in Stoic thought that the Sage accepts the world as it is, having been established that way by Zeus. . . . It is...
33927
Steve Marquis
stevemarquis...
Oct 6, 2012 10:03 pm
Didn't expect any less from you Malcolm :). Yes you choose in the present moment. But the consequence of your choice never occurs instantaneously. Even...
33928
Malcolm Schosha
malcolmschosha
Oct 6, 2012 10:17 pm
Hey Steve, Whatever is in our power, is in our power now. What happens later is the consequence of our choice only in very small part...if at all. If this...
33929
Steve Marquis
stevemarquis...
Oct 7, 2012 5:46 am
Hi Malcolm – While indeed most of our discussions in this area are about what is ultimately in our control or not this is not one of those. This discussion...
33930
Malcolm Schosha
malcolmschosha
Oct 7, 2012 11:47 am
Steve wrote: <<The title of this thread, which I started, is ‘Motivation in the Sage’. Motivation, that is impulse, _always_ comes after assent. ...
33931
donjohnr
Oct 7, 2012 9:56 pm
Hi, I know this is a controversial area so I wanted to try to put some brief notes together in a blog post and give others a chance to comment. Can you be...
33932
Malcolm Schosha
malcolmschosha
Oct 7, 2012 10:41 pm
Probably it all hinges on belief providence more than on a belief in God. If some believed in God while rejecting providence, it is difficult to see what...
33933
Guillaume Andrieu
subtenante
Oct 8, 2012 9:19 am
Hi Malcolm. Could you explain what you mean by providence? I always associated this idea with God before, it seems to me a theological notion that comes from ...
33934
Malcolm Schosha
malcolmschosha
Oct 8, 2012 12:09 pm
Hi Guillaume, Certainly providence is associated with God, but not all who believe the gods existed also believed in providence. The Epicureans, for example,...
33935
Donald Robertson
donjohnr
Oct 8, 2012 12:41 pm
Malcolm: "Probably it all hinges on belief providence more than on a belief in God. If some believed in God while rejecting providence, it is difficult to see...
33936
Grant Sterling
fccmoose
Oct 8, 2012 2:48 pm
... ***** Zeus wills that I act virtuously. Even if you leave Zeus out of the picture, virtue is good, and is the only real good. Virtue requires that I...
33937
Grant Sterling
fccmoose
Oct 8, 2012 4:48 pm
I think you're both right...and wrong. I agree with Malcolm that a choice is made _at a given moment_, in the present, and this is all I can control. So _in...
33938
stoic_thorn_bearer
stoic_thorn_...
Oct 8, 2012 8:16 pm
I think I'm with Malcolm on this. Choice is always in the moment, the choice may be about past or future events, but our choice and attitude exists in the here...
33939
Steve Marquis
stevemarquis...
Oct 8, 2012 8:31 pm
I never disagreed with Malcolm about _this_. Choice may be one way of defining what we mean by 'moment'. However in any chain of causation I refuse to...
33940
Malcolm Schosha
malcolmschosha
Oct 8, 2012 9:00 pm
Donald wrote: << ..my conclusion is that there are several pieces of evidence in the Stoic texts themselves suggesting that Stoics were prepared to consider...
33941
Donald Robertson
donjohnr
Oct 8, 2012 10:15 pm
Hi Malcolm, I'm writing a piece on this at the moment, so I'd be really keen to find out the reasoning behind your position. My blog article cites a number of...
33942
Kevin
kevin11_c
Oct 9, 2012 2:25 am
Our current awarness is always a few moments in the past. It takes time for nerves to move info and time to process. About the fastest reflex is 0.2 seconds...
33943
Malcolm Schosha
malcolmschosha
Oct 9, 2012 11:56 am
Donald, I think you are mistaking, what was a fairly standard rhetorical technique, with waffling on the fundamental Stoic concept of providence. Marcus is...
33944
Donald Robertson
donjohnr
Oct 9, 2012 12:11 pm
Hi Malcolm, I'm keen to discover the rationale for your own position, though. Why do you believe that no foundation would remain to support Stoic ethical...
33945
Malcolm Schosha
malcolmschosha
Oct 9, 2012 2:05 pm
Donald wrote: <<....you're missing the point here. Whether or not Marcus personally believed in God is irrelevant. The issue the blog article was about is ...
33946
Malcolm Schosha
malcolmschosha
Oct 9, 2012 7:39 pm
Grant wrote: <<As for the "Sage", I continue to think that this notion is needlessly controversial. The only difference between the Sage and someone who is...
33947
Steve Marquis
stevemarquis...
Oct 9, 2012 8:33 pm
Malcolm –  I believe Donald is looking for your own reasons why you make this claim, your logical reasons, not scholarly historical reasons. I do not...
33948
Guillaume Andrieu
subtenante
Oct 9, 2012 9:51 pm
Hi Malcolm, I find it hard to reconcile the point of view that you express here with the point of view you express regarding the necessity of providence to ...
33949
Malcolm Schosha
malcolmschosha
Oct 9, 2012 10:13 pm
I have no idea what you are talking about. My view concerning the issue of Stoic Sages is obviously my own view, and not based on the Stoic texts. I thought...
33950
Guillaume Andrieu
subtenante
Oct 10, 2012 6:56 am
Hi Malcolm. What I am talking about is two different things you have said that I find hard to reconcile. It seems to me absolutely obvious that you expressed...
