... Firstly, I'm not certain where you get the idea that virtue is defined according to society's expectations ("role dutires... taken ver batim from what our ...
11095
DT Strain
dtstrain
Oct 1, 2005 3:11 pm
... Perhaps the difficulty lies in the fact that you are using one word (value) for a wider range of things, whereas Stoics have two different sorts of ways...
11096
robin
selgusni
Oct 1, 2005 3:53 pm
... It's not just the informal sense, it is the sense which is used in most philosophy, hence the confusion. Robin...
11097
Steve & Oxsana Marquis
marquis95960
Oct 1, 2005 5:37 pm
Rick wrote: ___________ After all, Grant said a Stoic should give ZERO value to something outside his control, and it seemed to me that you and others agree...
11098
robin
selgusni
Oct 1, 2005 5:55 pm
... We know from the lives of famous Stoics that they do seem to have taken pleasure in such things. Zeno, for example, was said to enjoy sitting in the sun,...
11099
Steve & Oxsana Marquis
marquis95960
Oct 1, 2005 6:39 pm
Daniel wrote: ___________ Firstly, I'm not certain where you get the idea that virtue is defined according to society's expectations ("role duties... taken ver...
11100
DT Strain
dtstrain
Oct 1, 2005 10:02 pm
... This idea of expected social roles having anything to do with virtue is really quite new to me. I don't recall ever seeing anything about this on this...
11101
robin
selgusni
Oct 1, 2005 10:16 pm
Firstly, thanks to all concerned for their informative comments on joy, value and indifferents. Despite my lack of sagehood, I think that I have on occasions ...
11102
robin
selgusni
Oct 1, 2005 10:21 pm
... As far as I can tell, it's a late Stoic thing. You see some examples of it in Epictetus, and a lot more in Aurelius. The most revealing discussion,...
11103
DT Strain
dtstrain
Oct 1, 2005 10:38 pm
... That's interesting Robin. But are you sure they're not simply talking about duty? To me, there is a huge difference between inherent duties to our...
11104
reb_el
Oct 2, 2005 3:06 am
... using one word (value) for a wider range of things, whereas Stoics have two different sorts of ways they can "value" things (even if this is isn't pointed...
11105
reb_el
Oct 2, 2005 3:28 am
... whatever we are doing. The depth of our engagement is quite independent of the content of the activity itself, it could be anything. The Stoic then, being...
11106
DT Strain
dtstrain
Oct 2, 2005 8:48 pm
... No problem - just beware that I'm only a beginner in this stuff and await correction from others on my interpretation here :) ... Here is the importance of...
11107
robin
selgusni
Oct 2, 2005 9:11 pm
... Yep, that's the basic paradox of Stoicism, but it's a workable paradox. I think the best analogy is the one where Marcus Aurelius describes helping others...
11108
Jan E Garrett
chrys1943
Oct 2, 2005 9:42 pm
The idea of Zeus as a Supreme Reason pervading and controlling nature as a whole, occasionally defended by rational argument but at least as often taken for...
11109
Steven Hamilton
epictetusmn
Oct 2, 2005 9:50 pm
I found the referenes to Albert Ellis intriguing and have spent some of the last two weeks reading up on his REBT...Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy. Many...
11110
robin
selgusni
Oct 2, 2005 11:12 pm
... I like Ellis' work a lot - in fact it was reading one of his books about ten years back that rekindled my interest in Stoicism. One thing I appreciate is...
11111
reb_el
Oct 3, 2005 1:34 am
... of Nine gets nekkid. Now that would be what I'd call a preferred indifferent!" She was in her borgday suit in two episodes that I can recall; "Tinker,...
11112
reb_el
Oct 3, 2005 1:55 am
... hypothetical example..." Well said. Excellent example. I understand exactly what you mean. Thanks! ... sacrifice my contentment or well being. What I...
11113
Paul
pdlanagan
Oct 3, 2005 3:00 am
... Hello Robin, You asked: "And this brings me to another question. Stoicism claims that the only things worth having are in our control, but it seems that...
11114
robin
selgusni
Oct 3, 2005 11:25 am
... Ah, what I meant was that virtues themselves are influenced by events outside our control. In other words, how you pursue indifferents is to some extent...
11121
DT Strain
dtstrain
Oct 3, 2005 3:13 pm
... There is an implied assertion in the above statement that "valuing" a thing, necessarily means that not obtaining it will "phase us". I'm not certain this...
11122
Steve & Oxsana Marquis
marquis95960
Oct 3, 2005 4:02 pm
Gich wrote: ___________ This also has been said: The road to Hell is paved with good intentions!! ___________ Ah yes Gich, this was bound to come up sooner or...
11123
Grant Sterling
fccmoose
Oct 3, 2005 4:07 pm
I am comfortable if you wish to distinguish types of value. I actually think it will confuse the layman _more_ than saying "no value on indifferents" will,...
11124
Grant Sterling
fccmoose
Oct 3, 2005 5:02 pm
At 07:48 AM 10/3/2005, gich morgan wrote: [snip] :) I couldn't resist. ... This isn't my experience. My experience is that people who snip usually regard...
11125
Grant Sterling
fccmoose
Oct 3, 2005 5:53 pm
My first few comments are fairly tame, but we get to a really critical point later on.... ... I think your division of indifferents into externals and ...
11126
robin
selgusni
Oct 3, 2005 6:26 pm
... The problem is that if you want to do away with consequentialism, you need something to put in its place, and neither Stoicism not Kantianism offer...
11127
robin
selgusni
Oct 3, 2005 6:41 pm
I'm an occasional contributor to LiveJournal's philosophy community (http://www.livejournal.com/community/philosophy). Every so often, some student will post...
11128
Grant Sterling
fccmoose
Oct 3, 2005 7:20 pm
... My point is that this doesn't follow. From "neither Smith being alive nor Smith being dead are important" it simply does not follow that "I have no reason...
11129
DT Strain
dtstrain
Oct 3, 2005 8:24 pm
... I would agree with this, and it's a good way to make a point. But in all honesty, when someone like Rick holds us down on this particular point, I think...
