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Slogan or sign-off: Live well and do good work   Message List  
Reply Message #9901 of 33093 |
Re: [stoics] Slogan or sign-off: Live well and do good work

Hello Jan,
 
>>>There is a slogan some of the ancients used--I've seen the Greek for it--and one or more members of the Forum have used it in the past. I can't quite recall it now but it consisted for two verbs joined by "and." One of them was "forebear," I think.<<<
 
Yes, this is 'bear and forbear' (anechou kai apechou), and Sandbach suggests an alternative translation, 'sustain and abstain' in his excellent introduction, The Stoics.
 
This expression occurs in Epictetus, Fragment 10, (my translation):

I have heard Favorinus say that the philosopher Epictetus said that most of those who give the appearance of practising philosophy do so only with words and not with actions. There is a saying stronger still that he often used, recorded by Arrian in the books that he wrote about his discourses. Arrian reports that when Epictetus noticed a man who had lost his moral integrity, who misdirected his efforts, who had bad habits, bold and impudent in his speech, attending to everything else apart from the character of his soul – when Epictetus noticed someone of this sort who took upon himself also a study of philosophy and its methods, along with physics and dialectics, and inquiring into many theoretical topics of this sort, he would call upon gods and men, and frequently in the midst of his appeal he would raise his voice against the man and say: ‘Man, where are you putting all these things? Look to see if your vessel has been made clean. If you put them into your mind, they will be ruined; if they spoil they will become vinegar or urine, or maybe something worse still.’ There is surely nothing weightier or more true than these words, in which the greatest of philosophers declares that the writings and teachings of philosophy, when poured into someone false and degenerate, as though into a dirty and contaminated vessel, are altered, changed and ruined, becoming (as he himself says in the manner of the Cynics) urine, or perhaps something more foul even than urine.

 

Furthermore, this Epictetus, as we have heard from the same Favorinus, was in the habit of saying that there are two vices far more grave and vile than any other – these being want of endurance and want of self-control, when we fail to endure and bear the vexations we have to bear, and when we do not forbear those pleasures and other things that we ought to forbear. And so, he said, if someone could control themselves and keep watch over themselves by taking to heart and living by these two words, they would for the most part no longer go wrong, but enjoy complete tranquillity. And these two words he used to say were ‘anechou’ [bear, sustain] and ‘apechou’ [forbear, abstain]. 

(Gell. NA 17.19)

At Discourses 4.8.17/20 (trans Hard, with omissions) we find:

 

For this reason Euphrates was right to say, 'I tried for a long while not to be recognized as a philosopher, and this was of benefit to me ... And where was the harm, that I should be discovered to be a philosopher by my actions and not by the outward signs?'

 

See how I eat, how I drink, how I sleep, how I bear and forbear, how I assist others, how I make use of my desires and aversions, how I preserve my relationships, natural or acquired, without confusion and without hindrance. Judge me by this, if you can.

 

Best wishes,

 

Keith



Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:24 pm

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Message #9901 of 33093 |
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There is a slogan some of the ancients used--I've seen the Greek for it--and one or more members of the Forum have used it in the past. I can't quite recall it...
Jan E Garrett
chrys1943 Offline Send Email
Jul 25, 2005
1:57 pm

I like it! Reminds me of Steve's "Live Well" he signs off with. How about a little longer than that, but a little shorter than, "Live well and do good...
DT Strain
dtstrain Offline Send Email
Jul 25, 2005
4:03 pm

You can think of "slogans" as "mantras", aids to remembering and applying Stoic concepts.. Use them as Keith mentions below. Use them as screen savers....
Steven Hamilton
epictetusmn Offline Send Email
Jul 25, 2005
11:58 pm

... ............ Jan, You are, perhaps, thinking of "bear and forbear" from Epictetus, Fragment 10. Malcolm Schosha ...
Malcolm Schosha
malcolmschosha Offline Send Email
Jul 26, 2005
6:13 pm

I thought that was "For lions, for tigers, and for bears"? There have been some good ideas. I especially like the concept of using slogans as reminders of...
DT Strain
dtstrain Offline Send Email
Jul 26, 2005
7:10 pm

Hello Jan, ... Yes, this is 'bear and forbear' (anechou kai apechou), and Sandbach suggests an alternative translation, 'sustain and abstain' in his excellent...
Keith Seddon
khs10uk Offline Send Email
Jul 26, 2005
8:25 pm
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