--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "happypick2000" <happypick@...> wrote:

> I wonder if Steiner's "The Light Course" also may be
> of some help?

Dear Sheila,

As I said in my original post, reading the *Light
Course* provoked this question for me.  The
relevant passage is at the beginning of chpt.7:
<http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19191230p01.html>
The Steinerbooks version is at
<http://steinerbooks.org/research/archive/light_course/light_course.pdf>

It doesn't look as though I'll get *Das Rätsel
des Farbigen Schattens*.  The only copy my
librarian could find is in the Swiss National
Library; we can't get ILL from there.  Maybe
Benson will come through.

Robert M

To Charlie M, who wrote:

>>Going back to a previous post of yours, from my own point of
view, I see no problem in using photography to determine the
"objectivity" of colored shadows; as this could be a way of
determining whether the colour occurs on the surface on which
the shadow falls or if it originates in the eye of the
beholder.<<

Robert writes:

It still seems to me that the primary question
is:  what does the healthy eye see?  The
accuracy of color photography is determined by
its conformity or non-conformity with the
colors seen by healthy human eyesight, not the
other way around.  Experiments with photography
might raise questions that would be interesting
for photographers, but these questions seem
secondary at best.  The objectivity of the
colors could be determined by very simple
experiments with eyesight, as Steiner suggests.
It's really puzzling that those footnotes had
conflicting and/or unintelligible info about
results of the experiments.  It would seem
that such experiments must have been done in
the last 80-odd years, and that the results
should be common knowledge for physicists.
Why is this not the case? -- Very puzzling.

Charlie wrote:

>>This problem is very similar to the so called "rotating top
illusion" or the "Benham disc(k)" which can be seen (among other
places) at:

>>http://www.cut-the-knot.org/Curriculum/Geometry/TopIllusion.shtml<<

Robert writes:

I couldn't play that applet on the public
compters that I use.  I could play the graphics
here:
<http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/col_benham/index.html>,
but I didn't see any colors.  Maybe something
to do with the flicker on the display screen?
Anyway ... I'll take it for granted that most
people do see colors under the right conditions.

Charlie wrote:

>I would say that both coloured shadows and the colours produced
by "Benham's disc are due to the interplay of darkness and light
and are objectively real phenomena, just as a rainbow is
objectively real or the coloured edges seen through a prism are
objectively real.<<

Robert writes:

That would be about my guess too.  There's
likely an interaction of the "visual beam" and
the "deeds" of light AT the surfaces in objective
space.  Have you read Lehrs' *Man or Matter*?
-- He makes a very brief, enigmatic comment
about colored shadows; as I read it, he seems
to assume implicitly the objectivity of the
colors.  It's a must-read book anyway, and
the text is online at Project Gutenberg:
<http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/5641>

Gotta run,

Robert M







      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Mason" <robertsmason_99@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "happypick2000" <happypick@> wrote:
>
> > I wonder if Steiner's "The Light Course" also may be
> > of some help?
>
> Dear Sheila,
>
> As I said in my original post, reading the *Light
> Course* provoked this question for me.  The
> relevant passage is at the beginning of chpt.7:
> <http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19191230p01.html>
> The Steinerbooks version is at
> <http://steinerbooks.org/research/archive/light_course/light_course.pdf>
>
> It doesn't look as though I'll get *Das Rätsel
> des Farbigen Schattens*.  The only copy my
> librarian could find is in the Swiss National
> Library; we can't get ILL from there.  Maybe
> Benson will come through.
>
> Robert M

Robert, I stand corrected [hiding red face behind book...]. Do you
think it might be possible to obtain a copy of *Das Ratsel des
Farbigen Schattens* from a Group - could one who teaches First Class
help in this search? I wish you the very best on your journey, with
apologies for my faux pas. &:|

Blessings,
Sheila
>

  Perhaps we can see how the first Mystery Play is a transformation of the 'legend'.

 

Scene One

It starts in a land at night, divided by a great river. A Ferryman is one way to cross the river. Two Will-O-Wisps come to him asking to be taken over, to see the beautiful Lily who they have heard lives on the other side. Will-O-Wisps are legendary fairies made of flame who can "drink" gold and then send it out of themselves in gold coins. They go to pay the Ferryman in gold, but he says he can't take it but must be paid in fruits of the earth, which they know nothing about: but some magic forces them to agree to pay him 9 fruits, 3 of each of 3 kinds. He lets them leave, and then throws the gold down a chasm in the rocks.

 

Scene Two

   Now we switch to down below, where a mysterious creature, the Green Snake, lives. She has always lived in darkness but has heard a legend about it being possible to have light with the aid of gold; and she swallows the gold when it comes down and becomes radiant. She goes up above to find where it came from and sees the Will-o-Wisps, who offer her more. They ask where to find the Lily but are told she is on the other side of the River, and there are only three ways to cross: the Ferryman at night (but he can only bring people from the farther shore to here, not back), the Snake makes a magical bridge of her own body at noon, and a Giant has a magic shadow which, shadows being longest at sunrise and sunset, can carry people across the river then. Being creatures of the fairy-world, they do not like to travel at noon, so they decline the Snake's offer to take them across at noon, and leave.

 

Scene Three

    The Snake now descends to the underground Temple, which she has often visited, but could only feel by touch the figures there in darkness; now that she is radiant, she longs to see them as well. When she enters with her new Light, she sees they are 4 statues, of gold, silver, bronze and one of all 3 mixed. The gold King speaks to her now that she is 'enlightened', in a cryptic conversation, like a Masonic rite, where the Snake knows the answers to give, about gold and light and speech. Suddenly appears the Man with the Lamp, who moves through walls by the light of his Lamp dissolving the metal seams in the rock. He now continues this symbolic conversation with the Kings. He says he knows three secrets but needs to know the fourth one: the Snake says she knows it, and whispers in his ear, and he declares "The time is at hand!" and speeds away west from the Temple while the snake runs east.

 

   Scene Four

   The Man with the Lamp returns to his cottage, and his wife tells him how the 2 Will-o-Wisps visited there while he was gone, absorbed all the gold from the walls which his Lamp had created and shook out gold pieces, one of which their dog ate and died. She says she has promised to pay their debt of 9 earth-fruits to the Ferryman for them. The Man changes the Dog to a gem with his Lamp and tells her to bring it to the Lily, who would bring its dead form back to life just as her touch turns any living thing dead, and to tell her that her curse will soon be lifted---for 'the time is at hand!'

  
To Be Continued

Dear List

I received quite a bashing here when I said that Steiner created a
masonic lodge and that it still continued to operate. People here
either didnt want to know, said Steiner was never a member or worked
any such lodge and called me a liar. Now while I did make several
mistakes concerning some details I´ve since compared the oral
teachings of our lodge with those that still exist in Germany and
others and have formed a better picture of what happened through the
transmission of his masonic rituals to us. It was Theodore Ruess that
gave Steiner the authority to work the masonic rite, however Steiner
took no authority from him and changed the ritauls, for example the
second degree contains Lucifer and Ahriman. Now while I havent read
this book here it is given for those who simply told me to get lost
and said that no such rituals from Stiener ever existed. This book
proves that wrong and also in the reveiws shows that lodges in both
Germany and New Zealand still exist and another in Sweden.

See http://www.amazon.com/Freemasonry-Ritual-Work-Documents-Cognitive-
Ritual/dp/0880106123 to find out more about Steiners Masonic school

in LVX Frater Maui






--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, DoctorStarman@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/8/2005 11:20:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> fraterm@... writes:
>
> > No Pierre, we are quite aware of Steiner’s take on secret
orders and the
> > such as after he left the order he did indeed reject the society
and would have
> > nothing to do with it and Pat Z should have some references to
that. Again
> > its only given for historical reference, I’m not sure if the
title Supreme
> > Magus is correct as they had another name for it also (ie another
language) but
> > SM is the standard to describe the head of an order. Waite left
too many
> > references to Steiner being in this society for a time and he was
in just about
> > every society during his era and knew everyone’s going on’s
quite well. The
> > order that Steiner chaired when Felkin arrived was also an
umbrella group, it
> > will again drive you nuts to hear that the Theosophical society
came under
> > its wings as well....
> >
> >
>
> *******To assert that Madame Blavatsky's Theosophical Society,
which fought
> pitched battles with all Masonic-type groups for the same reason as
Steiner,
> that she believed that everything must be revealed openly----and
for which
> practice of revealing their secrets, Blavatsky herself suffered a
lot----shows even
> less understanding of it than of the Anthroposophical Society on
your part.
>
>     There was no order Steiner was a head of which he later
rejected; he was
> a loner in the late 1890s in Berlin except for the many literary
figures he
> associated with. Neither he nor any of his biographers have ever
said anything
> about any Order. He described a SPIRITUAL being tutoring him at
this time, whom
> he called the Master.
>
>    Once more, if you are interested in the study of Steiner and his
> anthroposophy you are welcome here. You are not, when you talk
about some stuff which
> is completely foreign to him and assert it was his source, implying
superior
> knowledge, which might account for not having heard one single
question from
> you. That would seem to indicate you just want to spam this list
with ads for
> your own list, which you are promoting by the aid of definite
falsehoods about
> Steiner. Stop these baseless assertions and show some interest in
what we're
> about or you will be removed.
>
> -starman
>
>
> >
> >
> > In LVX Samuel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: steiner@yahoogroups.com [mailto:steiner@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> > Pierre Gringoire
> > Sent: Monday, 9 May 2005 7:57 AM
> > To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [steiner] Re: Alleged Steiner
Rosicrucian "Transmission"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I must say that I am in complete agreement with Sheila and Dr.
Starman.  The
> > following is highly questionable:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "In 1897 Rudolf Steiner travelled to Berlin to become Supreme
Magus over the
> > Grand Lodge there."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > It is quite possible that the person using the pseudonym 'Frater
Maui' or
> > 'Samuel' is unaware of the contentious nature of these remarks.
If so, he
> > displays an ignorance of both Steiner and the circumstances of
his life.  It
> > would be highly surprising if any genuine Rosicrucian Order would
fail to inform
> > its members exactly why such remarks are controversial.  The
exact motive
> > behind this 'revelation' is as yet unclear.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Pierre Gringiore
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> www.DrStarman.com
>

---

To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
From: fratermaui@...
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:17:11 +0000
Subject: [steiner] Re: Alleged Steiner Rosicrucian "Transmission"

Dear List

I received quite a bashing here when I said that Steiner created a
masonic lodge and that it still continued to operate. People here
either didnt want to know, said Steiner was never a member or worked
any such lodge and called me a liar. Now while I did make several
mistakes concerning some details I´ve since compared the oral
teachings of our lodge with those that still exist in Germany and
others and have formed a better picture of what happened through the
transmission of his masonic rituals to us. It was Theodore Ruess that
gave Steiner the authority to work the masonic rite, however Steiner
took no authority from him and changed the ritauls, for example the
second degree contains Lucifer and Ahriman. Now while I havent read
this book here it is given for those who simply told me to get lost
and said that no such rituals from Stiener ever existed. This book
proves that wrong and also in the reveiws shows that lodges in both
Germany and New Zealand still exist and another in Sweden.

See http://www.amazon.com/Freemasonry-Ritual-Work-Documents-Cognitive-
Ritual/dp/0880106123 to find out more about Steiners Masonic school

in LVX Frater Maui

--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, DoctorStarman@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/8/2005 11:20:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> fraterm@... writes:
>
> > No Pierre, we are quite aware of Steiner’s take on secret
orders and the
> > such as after he left the order he did indeed reject the society
and would have
> > nothing to do with it and Pat Z should have some references to
that. Again
> > its only given for historical reference, I’m not sure if the
title Supreme
> > Magus is correct as they had another name for it also (ie another
language) but
> > SM is the standard to describe the head of an order. Waite left
too many
> > references to Steiner being in this society for a time and he was
in just about
> > every society during his era and knew everyone’s going on’s
quite well. The
> > order that Steiner chaired when Felkin arrived was also an
umbrella group, it
> > will again drive you nuts to hear that the Theosophical society
came under
> > its wings as well....
> >
> >
>
> *******To assert that Madame Blavatsky's Theosophical Society,
which fought
> pitched battles with all Masonic-type groups for the same reason as
Steiner,
> that she believed that everything must be revealed openly----and
for which
> practice of revealing their secrets, Blavatsky herself suffered a
lot----shows even
> less understanding of it than of the Anthroposophical Society on
your part.
>
> There was no order Steiner was a head of which he later
rejected; he was
> a loner in the late 1890s in Berlin except for the many literary
figures he
> associated with. Neither he nor any of his biographers have ever
said anything
> about any Order. He described a SPIRITUAL being tutoring him at
this time, whom
> he called the Master.
>
> Once more, if you are interested in the study of Steiner and his
> anthroposophy you are welcome here. You are not, when you talk
about some stuff which
> is completely foreign to him and assert it was his source, implying
superior
> knowledge, which might account for not having heard one single
question from
> you. That would seem to indicate you just want to spam this list
with ads for
> your own list, which you are promoting by the aid of definite
falsehoods about
> Steiner. Stop these baseless assertions and show some interest in
what we're
> about or you will be removed.
>
> -starman
>
>
> >
> >
> > In LVX Samuel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: steiner@yahoogroups.com [mailto:steiner@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> > Pierre Gringoire
> > Sent: Monday, 9 May 2005 7:57 AM
> > To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [steiner] Re: Alleged Steiner
Rosicrucian "Transmission"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I must say that I am in complete agreement with Sheila and Dr.
Starman. The
> > following is highly questionable:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "In 1897 Rudolf Steiner travelled to Berlin to become Supreme
Magus over the
> > Grand Lodge there."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > It is quite possible that the person using the pseudonym 'Frater
Maui' or
> > 'Samuel' is unaware of the contentious nature of these remarks.
If so, he
> > displays an ignorance of both Steiner and the circumstances of
his life. It
> > would be highly surprising if any genuine Rosicrucian Order would
fail to inform
> > its members exactly why such remarks are controversial. The
exact motive
> > behind this 'revelation' is as yet unclear.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Pierre Gringiore
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> www.DrStarman.com
>

 RE: Goethe's Fairy Tale of the Green Snake and the Beautiful Lily

  The first Mystery Play is a transformation of this 'legend'. Here's one version of its 'scenes'.

 

Scene One: The River

It starts in a land at night, divided by a great river. A Ferryman is one way to cross the river. Two Will-O-Wisps come to him asking to be taken over, to see the beautiful Lily who they have heard lives on the other side. Will-O-Wisps are legendary fairies made of flame who can "drink" gold and then send it out of themselves in gold coins. They go to pay the Ferryman in gold, but he says he can't take it but must be paid in fruits of the earth, which they know nothing about: but some magic forces them to agree to pay him 9 fruits, 3 of each of 3 kinds. He lets them leave, and then throws the gold down a chasm in the rocks.

 

Scene Two: The Green Snake and the Gold

   Now we switch to down below, where a mysterious creature, the Green Snake, lives. She has always lived in darkness but has heard a legend about it being possible to have light with the aid of gold; and she swallows the gold when it comes down and becomes radiant. She goes up above to find where it came from and sees the Will-o-Wisps, who offer her more. They ask where to find the Lily but are told she is on the other side of the River, and there are only three ways to cross: the Ferryman at night (but he can only bring people from the farther shore to here, not back), the Snake makes a magical bridge of her own body at noon, and a Giant has a magic shadow which, shadows being longest at sunrise and sunset, can carry people across the river then. Being creatures of the fairy-world, they do not like to travel at noon, so they seem to decline the Snake's offer to take them across at noon, and leave.

 

Scene Three: The Subterranean Temple

    The Snake now descends to the underground Temple, which she has often visited, but could only feel by touch the figures there in darkness; now that she is radiant, she longs to see them as well. When she enters with her new Light, she sees they are 4 statues, of gold, silver, bronze and one of all 3 mixed. The gold King speaks to her now that she is 'enlightened', in a cryptic conversation, like a Masonic rite, where the Snake knows the answers to give, about gold and light and speech. Suddenly appears the Man with the Lamp, who moves through walls by the light of his Lamp dissolving the metal seams in the rock. He now continues this symbolic conversation with the Kings. He says he knows three secrets but needs to know the fourth one: the Snake says she knows it, and whispers in his ear, and he declares "The time is at hand!" and speeds away west from the Temple while the snake runs east.

 

   Scene Four : The Man With The Lamp's Cottage

   The Man with the Lamp returns to his cottage, and his wife tells him how the 2 Will-o-Wisps visited there while he was gone, absorbed all the gold from the walls which his Lamp had created and shook out gold pieces, one of which their dog ate and died. She says she has promised to pay their debt of 9 earth-fruits to the Ferryman for them. The Man changes the Dog to a gem with his Lamp and tells her to bring it to the Lily, who would bring its dead form back to life just as her touch turns any living thing dead, and to tell her that her curse will soon be lifted---for 'the time is at hand!'

  

Scene Five : The Way To The Lily

   The woman heads east in the morning, to the River, to pay the Ferryman. But the Giant' s shadow steals three of the vegetables she has in her basket. The Ferryman will only take the payment if she puts her hand into the River and promises to pay the third she owes it within a day. When she does so, her hand turns black and begins to shrink. The Ferryman had brought over a young handsome Prince whom she walks to the Lily with, who says he has lost all interest in his earthly kingdom since seeing the beautiful Lily. They cross at noon on the Snake-Bridge, which is changed now that the Snake has become luminous. The Will-o-Wisps also cross, although they are invisible at noon and only heard.

 

Scene Six; The Kingdom of the Lily
 (To Be Continued)

 

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**  Aren't Masons the ones that ride around in little cars during
parades?



--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "fratermaui" <fratermaui@...> wrote:
>
>
> Dear List
>
> I received quite a bashing here when I said that Steiner created a
> masonic lodge and that it still continued to operate. People here
> either didnt want to know, said Steiner was never a member or
worked
> any such lodge and called me a liar. Now while I did make several
> mistakes concerning some details I´ve since compared the oral
> teachings of our lodge with those that still exist in Germany and
> others and have formed a better picture of what happened through
the
> transmission of his masonic rituals to us. It was Theodore Ruess
that
> gave Steiner the authority to work the masonic rite, however
Steiner
> took no authority from him and changed the ritauls, for example the
> second degree contains Lucifer and Ahriman. Now while I havent read
> this book here it is given for those who simply told me to get lost
> and said that no such rituals from Stiener ever existed. This book
> proves that wrong and also in the reveiws shows that lodges in both
> Germany and New Zealand still exist and another in Sweden.
>
> See http://www.amazon.com/Freemasonry-Ritual-Work-Documents-
Cognitive-
> Ritual/dp/0880106123 to find out more about Steiners Masonic school
>
> in LVX Frater Maui
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, DoctorStarman@ wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 5/8/2005 11:20:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > fraterm@ writes:
> >
> > > No Pierre, we are quite aware of Steiner’s take on secret
> orders and the
> > > such as after he left the order he did indeed reject the
society
> and would have
> > > nothing to do with it and Pat Z should have some references to
> that. Again
> > > its only given for historical reference, I’m not sure if the
> title Supreme
> > > Magus is correct as they had another name for it also (ie
another
> language) but
> > > SM is the standard to describe the head of an order. Waite left
> too many
> > > references to Steiner being in this society for a time and he
was
> in just about
> > > every society during his era and knew everyone’s going on’s
> quite well. The
> > > order that Steiner chaired when Felkin arrived was also an
> umbrella group, it
> > > will again drive you nuts to hear that the Theosophical society
> came under
> > > its wings as well....
> > >
> > >
> >
> > *******To assert that Madame Blavatsky's Theosophical Society,
> which fought
> > pitched battles with all Masonic-type groups for the same reason
as
> Steiner,
> > that she believed that everything must be revealed openly----and
> for which
> > practice of revealing their secrets, Blavatsky herself suffered a
> lot----shows even
> > less understanding of it than of the Anthroposophical Society on
> your part.
> >
> >     There was no order Steiner was a head of which he later
> rejected; he was
> > a loner in the late 1890s in Berlin except for the many literary
> figures he
> > associated with. Neither he nor any of his biographers have ever
> said anything
> > about any Order. He described a SPIRITUAL being tutoring him at
> this time, whom
> > he called the Master.
> >
> >    Once more, if you are interested in the study of Steiner and
his
> > anthroposophy you are welcome here. You are not, when you talk
> about some stuff which
> > is completely foreign to him and assert it was his source,
implying
> superior
> > knowledge, which might account for not having heard one single
> question from
> > you. That would seem to indicate you just want to spam this list
> with ads for
> > your own list, which you are promoting by the aid of definite
> falsehoods about
> > Steiner. Stop these baseless assertions and show some interest in
> what we're
> > about or you will be removed.
> >
> > -starman
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > In LVX Samuel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: steiner@yahoogroups.com [mailto:steiner@yahoogroups.com]
On
> Behalf Of
> > > Pierre Gringoire
> > > Sent: Monday, 9 May 2005 7:57 AM
> > > To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [steiner] Re: Alleged Steiner
> Rosicrucian "Transmission"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I must say that I am in complete agreement with Sheila and Dr.
> Starman.  The
> > > following is highly questionable:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "In 1897 Rudolf Steiner travelled to Berlin to become Supreme
> Magus over the
> > > Grand Lodge there."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It is quite possible that the person using the
pseudonym 'Frater
> Maui' or
> > > 'Samuel' is unaware of the contentious nature of these
remarks.
> If so, he
> > > displays an ignorance of both Steiner and the circumstances of
> his life.  It
> > > would be highly surprising if any genuine Rosicrucian Order
would
> fail to inform
> > > its members exactly why such remarks are controversial.  The
> exact motive
> > > behind this 'revelation' is as yet unclear.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Pierre Gringiore
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > www.DrStarman.com
> >
>

---

To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
From: tma4cbt@...
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:45:11 +0000
Subject: [steiner] ** Should we start reading the Portal Initiation now?

**  When do we begin reading the "Portal Initiation"?  I'm just now able to start reading our material for the Holy Nights and I didn't know if I should begin with "The Green Snake" or with the "Portal Initiation."  I've already read most of the "Green Snake" so far, and appreciate Starman's summaries on this story. Starman wrote: The Portal of Initiation, the first of Steiner's "Mystery Plays", may be found online here: http://wn.rsarchive.org/Books/GA014/English/APC1925/GA014-1_contents.html When groups take it up reading it, people usually choose parts to read. Guess we couldn't exactly do that opnline!  But each person could still choose a character to identify with particularly. One central character is Johannes, the artist who was introduced to the spiritual path by Maria, a pupil of Benedictus (a sort of Dr. Steiner figure). Then there are the two academics, the young scientist Dr. Strader and the old literature professor, Capesius, and about a dozen more characters. I've acted in it, as well as in a staging of Goethe's Fairy Tale on which it was based. If the group chooses to read the play over the 12 Holy Nights, which I think is a great idea, perhaps I'll post the Fairy Tale here between now and then, and we can discuss that a bit first.

---

******* The characters in the Fairy Tale and in the Mystery Play:
 
   FAIRY TALE                          MYSTERY PLAY
 
The Ferryman                      The Spirit of the Elements
The 2 Will-o-Wisps                   Capesius and Strader
Maria                                        Lily
Philia                              
Luna                                  } Lily's 3 Hand Maidens
Astrid
Johannes                             The Young Prince
The Other Maria                    The Green Snake
The 4 Kings-Gold                   Benedictus
                Silver                  Theodosius
               Copper (Bronze)     Romanus
               Mixed                    Retardus
 The Man With the Lamp         Felix Balde
 His Wife                              Felicia Balde
The Giant                             Gairman (The Earth Brain)
 
     ...and 2 minor characters I did not have in my summary:
The Hawk                             Theodora
The Canary                            Child


 

Goethe's Fairy Tale of the Green Snake and the Beautiful Lily -Outline

 

Scene One: The River

It starts in an un-named land at night, one divided by a great River. A Ferryman is one way to cross the river. Two Will-O-Wisps come to him asking to be taken over, to see the beautiful Lily who they have heard lives on the other side. (Will-O-Wisps are legendary 'fairies' made of flame who can "drink" gold and then send it out of themselves in gold coins.) They go to pay the Ferryman in gold, but he says he can't take it but must be paid in fruits of the earth, which they know nothing about: but magic forces them to agree to pay him 9 fruits, 3 of each of 3 kinds. He lets them leave, and then throws the gold down a chasm in the rocks.

 

Scene Two: The Green Snake and the Gold

   Now we switch to down below, where a mysterious creature, the Green Snake, lives. She has always lived in darkness but has heard a legend about it being possible to have light with the aid of gold; and she swallows the gold when it comes down and becomes radiant. She goes up above to find where it came from and sees the Will-o-Wisps, who offer her more. They ask where to find the Lily but are told she is on the other side of the River, and there are only three ways to cross: the Ferryman at night (but he can only bring people from the farther shore to here, not back), the Snake herself makes a magical bridge of her own body at noon, and a certain Giant has a magic shadow which, shadows being longest at sunrise and sunset, can carry people across the river then. The creatures of the fairy-world leave.

 

Scene Three: The Subterranean Temple

    The Snake now descends to the underground Temple, which she has often visited, but could only feel by touch the figures there in darkness; now that she is radiant, she longs to see them as well. When she enters with her new Light, she sees they are 4 statues of Kings, of gold, silver, bronze and one of all 3 mixed. The gold King speaks to her now that she is 'enlightened', in a cryptic conversation, like a Masonic rite, where the Snake knows the answers to give, about gold and light and speech. Suddenly appears the Man with the Lamp, who moves through walls by the light of his Lamp dissolving the metal seams in the rock. He now continues this clearly symbolic conversation with the Kings. He says he knows three secrets but needs to know the fourth one: the Snake says she knows it, and whispers in his ear, and he declares "The time is at hand!" and speeds away west from the Temple while the snake runs east.

 

   Scene Four : The Man With The Lamp's Cottage

   The Man with the Lamp returns to his cottage, and his wife tells him how the 2 Will-o-Wisps visited there while he was gone, absorbed all the gold from the walls which his Lamp had created (for it turns rock to gold) and shook out gold pieces, one of which their dog ate and died. She says she has promised to pay their debt of 9 earth-fruits to the Ferryman for them. The Man changes the Dog to a gem with his Lamp and tells her to bring it to the Lily, who would bring its dead form back to life just as her touch turns any living thing dead, and to tell her that her curse will soon be lifted---for 'the time is at hand!'

  

Scene Five : The Way To The Lily

   The woman heads east in the morning, to the River, to pay the Ferryman. But the Giant' s shadow steals three of the vegetables she has in her basket. The Ferryman will only take the payment if she puts her hand into the River and promises to pay the third she owes it within a day. When she does so, her hand turns black and begins to shrink. The Ferryman had brought over a young handsome Prince whom she walks to the Lily with, who says he has lost all interest in his earthly kingdom since seeing the beautiful Lily. They cross at noon on the Snake-Bridge, which is changed now that the Snake has become luminous. The Will-o-Wisps also cross, although they are invisible at noon and only heard.

 

Scene Six: The Kingdom of the Lily

   The group arrives at the grove where the beautiful Lily is singing along with playing her harp, with her 3 hand-maidens. The woman gives her the gem and says her husband declares the curse will soon end, and the Lily sees a fulfilment of prophecy in the events, but says the spell will only be broken when she hears the words "The time is at hand" 3 times, where she has heard it only twice. The Youth cannot bear to see her playing with the dog she has restored to a half-life and therefore can touch, and at last throws himself upon her, and dies at her touch.

Scene Seven: The Procession to the River

  The Snake forms a magic circle around the Young Prince's body to preserve it until the Man with the Lamp arrives, whose lamp light prevents the body from decaying. All the company proceeds to the River where the Snake once again forms a bridge, now at midnight, for them to cross. All seem to know a ritual they must perform. The Snake offers to sacrifice herself; Lily touches her and the Prince, and he is restored to a half-life while the Snake disintegrates into precious stones which are gathered and thrown in the River.

 

Scene Eight: The Temple Rises

   The Man with the Lamp now leads them all to the subterranean Temple, whose gold lock the Will-o-Wisps dissolve; once more a Masonic-style exchange occurs, at the end of which the Man with the Lamp says the words "The time is at hand" for the third time, breaking the Lily's spell. The Temple rises through the rock, through the River, and displaces the Ferryman's hut. Everything and everyone is changed, the Man with the Lamp speaks of the 3 great Powers, and the Prince, now fully restored to life and united to his Lily, speaks of the 4th Power, Love. The 4th King collapses, as the Will-o-Wisps have eaten all the gold in his form. The Man with the Lamp's wife is restored to her youth and health. The Giant is transformed into a statue near the Temple, and his shadow becomes that of a sun-dial, marking the hours. All things are renewed.

 

.

---

 

.

 *  M A N T R A  # 3 7 (WINTER)  *

   Last week, the divine world spoke in the soul's depths in a way that could be sensed through use of the mantra, saying that if our deeds would be filled with its Light, we could be its channels to others. This week, it plants luminous seeds in the soul for future work, and through the mantric work we can feel ourselves striving to carry these into the world, as light-beings carrying the Spirit into the darknesss of matter, so that the divine working through us enlightens it.

 
THE DAYS OF THE WEEK

Sunday, December 16th. Moon Pisces. Ludwig van Beethoven born 1770. Wilhelm Grimm died 1878.

Monday, December 17th. Moon Aries. First Quarter. Day of Lazarus, he who by Christ was awakened.

Tuesday, December 18th. Moon Aries.   Lamarck died 1829.  

Wednesday December 19th. Moon Taurus. Abraham.

Thursday, December 20th. Moon Taurus. Ammon, Christian teacher of the 2nd century.

Friday, December 21st. Moon Gemini.  Feast day of Thomas the 'Doubting' Apostle. 

Saturday, December 22nd. Moon Gemini. Theodosius.

PLANETS IN THE NIGHT & MORNING SKY:

   MARS rises in the East shortly after sunset, to the left of the stars of Orion the Hunter. It is bright yellowish-red, at its greatest brilliancy as it reaches opposition to the Sun. During this time it will appear to stay in the same area of stars, as it does its 'retrograde loop': it will be be next to the stars at the foot of Castor (one of the Twins of Gemini) at the winter solstice, and there again at the vernal equinox. Mars will rise about an hour earlier each month, so it will be visible in the evening sky all winter. This coming full moon, next Sunday, will be very close to it.
   Just before sunrise, VENUS can be seen as a brilliant 'morning star' in the East, near the bright star Spica, the ear of corn held by the Virgin. Dimmer, yellowish SATURN is directly South, near the Lion's Heart, Regulus. 

Dr. Starman


www.DrStarman.com

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--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Mathew Morrell" <tma4cbt@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I must admit, my journey to the empyrean kingdom, beyond the Mystic
> River, thoroughly strained my nerves, and I am just now able to fully
> comprehend the event with enough clarity to describe the experience I
> had.
>
> I am not a mystic, after all.  I am a scholar.  My nerves are more
> accustomed to walnut paneled libraries and college reading rooms than
> transcendental voyages into the Netherworld.
>
> Even now it's difficult to comprehend the enormity of what
> transpired beyond the mystic Portal, for my entire reality transformed
> into something else.  The transition from the realities of the flesh to
> the realities of the spirit was mind boggling, illusive, and quit
> terrifying, to be honest.
>
> Upon returning home from my journey I checked into a resort where I can
> gather my wits about me, without having to be troubled by daily
> concerns.
>
> It's quiet here in the mountain air.  On the outside deck, I can
> comfortably and safely reminisce over the tunnel of light through which
> me and Mops catapulted in holy terror, and laugh about it.
>
> The nurses are very kind to me and laughingly reassure me that my voyage
> to The Temple of the Sun was, in fact, a dream, and that there are no
> such things as talking green snakes, fairies, and the such.
>
> I don't know.  It all seemed so real—in fact, more real than the
> "resort".
>
> In the mysteries of the Hierophants, tides and tides of beingness washed
> over me as if from some an infinite source of knowledge, and I knew,
> without having to refer to a book, the nature of all things.  The nature
> of an object, its reality, flowed through me like some fluidic essence
> filled with soul-spiritual energy; un-earthly, etheric colors filled the
> whole sphere of my reality, making wild, beautiful, pulsating sounds in
> everything that I gazed upon; cities of light and sound, forests of
> crystal trees; gigantic mountain ranges so delicately hued that they
> seemed to float, un-touched and virginal, like wisps of dew, mist and
> clouds.
>
> It will be a life-long challenge to learn to see this infinite Spirit
> within the temporal, because, to be truthful, I don't think I can on
> a long term basis.  Perhaps it was a fairy tale.
>
> Mop's is in a kennel and I'm here, at a lunatic asylum.  I wish
> we had never returned.
>
Thoughts from a hopefully understanding nurse:

I don't recall too much from my own journey through this world of
which The Scholar speaks but I may have taken a differing sidetrack.
It seemed to me my physical senses distorted failed, especially my
sight, but I think my ears picked up something sounding very much like
  string quartets, maybe Beethoven's, or was I merely dreaming? Not
being a Scholar but a nurse, my writing skills lack The Scholar's
clarity but I can still try to share, can't I?

Why is it I saw no one? But I know I wasn't alone? I KNOW I wasn't
alone, but where did that PRESENCE [I think it was a Presence or
Presences - perhaps more than one] - of what I had vaguely experienced
now and then a very long time ago on a physical plane but THERE this
Presence, or whatever it was/is permeated ALL with an overwhelmingly
intense LOVE OF AND FOR ALL!

I know I saw a brilliant ball way down below somewhere - it was
blinding in its all-encompassing light and a large clock somewhere
seemed to chime out from its dark recess twelve times.

No, there are no snakes, boats, avacado fruits here, or such - just a
graceful arch seeming to go over a creekbed, perhaps. But if I had
only concentrated more and meditated more, if I had only gone more
slowly and deeply through certain exercises I was shown so long ago -
IF! I must go back.

Excuse me for posting a reply from the Anthroposophy board here; for
some reason I cannot post a message there so if I may post it here.
And I wish you all a Happy Christmas - I am off to the wild bush for
a few weeks :)

Stephen in Anthroposophy wrote: Peter was crucified upside down in
order to give an exact replica of this fact of universal human. And
water needs a container, apparently, in order to quench thirst.

Contemplating Peter being crucified upside down has had me in deep
thought – the Mystery of the head, the spinal cord and the feet.  I
am still contemplating this arcane wisdom.

Also the container – thinking about a container had me thinking about
the Osiris and Isis Mystery~

Christianity as a Mystical Fact – Mystery Wisdom and Myth chapter 5.

If the soul inwardly takes hold of its lower nature only, it must
perish. Man must fashion a boat for himself which will carry him over
the waters of the transitory from one shore, material nature, to the
other, the eternal and divine.

Let us consider the Egyptian mystery of Osiris in this light.
Gradually Osiris had become one of the most important Egyptian
divinities. His representation supplanted other representations of
gods in certain parts of the country. A significant series of myths
formed itself around the figures of Osiris and his consort Isis.

Osiris was the son of the sun god; Typhon-Set was his brother and
Isis his sister. Osiris married his sister. With her he reigned over
Egypt. The evil brother, Typhon, plotted the destruction of Osiris.
He caused a casket to be made of the exact size of Osiris. At a
banquet the casket was offered as a gift to anyone who exactly fitted
into it. No one succeeded in this but Osiris. He laid himself in it.

Then Typhon and his accomplices hurled themselves upon Osiris, closed
the casket and threw it into the river. When Isis received the
dreadful news she was desperate and wandered everywhere searching for
the corpse of her husband. When she had found him, Typhon again
gained power over him. He tore him into fourteen pieces, which were
scattered far apart in different districts. Various tombs of Osiris
were shown in Egypt. Here and there in many places pieces of the god
were said to have been laid to rest. Osiris himself ascended from the
nether world and conquered Typhon; a ray from Osiris then fell upon
Isis, who bore him the son Harpokrates or Horus.

http://wn.rsarchive.org/Books/GA008/English/RPC1961/GA008_c05.html

I think about the above Mystery of Osiris and Isis when I read this~

Rudolf Steiner Life Beyond Death - Our experiences during the Night –
Christiania (Oslo) 18th May 1923 page 68

When the human personality enters the realm of sleep with his soul,
the first state experienced (all taking part in the unconscious, yet
with great vividness) engenders a feeling in him of dwelling, as it
were, in a general world ether.  The person feels himself, as it
were, disseminated into the whole cosmos.  We cease to have the
definite perceptions that formerly connected us with all the things
surrounding us in our earthly existence.  At first, we take part in
the general weaving and surging of the cosmos, and this is
accompanied by the feelings that our souls have their being in a
bottomless element.  Hence the soul, while existing in this
bottomless element, has an ardent desire for divine support.  Thus we
experience every evening, when falling asleep, the religious need of
having the whole world permeated by an all encompassing divine-
spiritual element. This is our real experience when falling asleep
our whole constitution as human beings enables us to transfer this
desire for the divine into our waking life (…)

Then, in our sleep, another stage sets in, all this, as was said
before, being passed through unconsciously, but nonetheless vividly.
Now it does not seem to the sleeper that his soul is, as it were,
disseminated into the general cosmos, but it seems as if the single
parts of his entity were divided.  Were our experiences to become
conscious, we would feel as though we were being disjointed.  And,
from the bottom of our soul, an unconscious fear rises up.  Every
night, while asleep, we experience the fear of being divided up into
the whole universe.

Now you might say: what does all this matter, as long as we know
nothing about it?  Well, it matters a great deal.  I should like to
explain, by means of a comparison, how much it matters.  Suppose that
we become frightened in ordinary daily life we turn pale.  The
emotion of fear is consciously felt by the soul.  A definite change
in our organism makes us turn pale.  The blood streams into the
body's interior.  What we experience in our soul is, as it were, a
mirrored image reflecting this streaming away of the blood from the
body's surface to its inner parts.  Thus an objective process
corresponds, in the waking state, to the emotion of fear.  When we
are asleep, a similar objective process, wholly independent of our
consciousness, occurs in our astral body.  Anyone able to form
imaginative and inspired conceptions will experience this objective
process in the astral body as an emotion of fear.  The objective
element in fear, however, is actually experienced by man every night,
because he feels himself being divided into parts inside his soul.

And how is he being divided?  Every night he is divided among the
universe of stars.  One part of his soul substance is striving
towards Mercury, another part towards Jupiter, and so forth.  Yet
this process can only be correctly characterized by saying: during
ordinary sleep we do not actually penetrate the worlds of stars, as
in the case on the path between death and a new birth.  What we
really undergo every night is not an actual division among the stars
which we carry within us during our entire earth life.  While asleep,
we are divided among the counterparts of Mercury, Venus, moon, sun,
and so forth.  Thus we are concerned here not with the original stars
themselves but with their counterparts in us.

This emotion of fear, experienced by us relatively soon after falling
asleep, can be removed only from that human being who feels a genuine
kinship to the Christ.  At this point, we become aware how much the
human being needs this kinship with the Christ.  In speaking of this
kinship, it is necessary to envisage man's evolution on earth.
Mankind's evolution on earth can be comprehended only by someone
having real insight into the significant turning point brought to
human beings by the Mystery of Golgotha.  It is a fact that the human
beings before the Mystery of Golgotha were different with regard to
soul and spirit from the human beings after the Mystery of Golgotha
had occurred on earth.  This must be taken into account if man's soul
is to be viewed in its true light.

When the human beings who lived before the Mystery of Golgotha – and
these human beings were actually we ourselves in a former life – fell
asleep and experienced the fear of which I have just spoken, then the
counterpart of the Christ in the world of stars existed for the human
beings of that time as much as did the counterparts of the other
heavenly bodies.  And as the Christ approached the sleeping human
being, He came as a helper to dissipate fear, to destroy fear.
People of earlier ages, still gifted with instinctive clairvoyance,
remembered after awaking, in a dream-like consciousness, that the
Christ had been with them in their sleep.  Only they did not call Him
the Christ.  They called Him the Sun-spirit.  Yet these people, who
lived before the Mystery of Golgotha, avowed from their innermost
depth that the great Sun-spirit was also the great guide and helper
of the human being, who approached him every night in sleep and
relieved him of the fear of being disseminated into the universe.
The Christ appeared as a spirit strengthening mankind and
consolidating its inner life.

Who binds together man's forces during his life? asked the followers
of ancient religions.  It is the great Sun-spirit, who firmly binds
together man's single elements and combines them into one
personality.  And this avowal was uttered by the followers of ancient
religions, because their consciousness was pervaded by the memory
that the Christ approached man every night.

Empedocies (490-430 BC) says this:

`This is manifest in the mass of mortal limbs.  At one time all the
limbs that are the body's portion Are brought together by Love in
blooming life's high season; At another, severed by cruel Strife,
they wander each alone by the breakers of life's sea.  It is the same
with plants, with fish that live in waters, With beasts living on
hills, with seabirds sailing on wings'.

---

To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
From: DrStarman@...
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:34:30 -0500
Subject: RE: [steiner] The Fairy Tale

******* We can look at the "märchen" or fairy tale as a work of literature. It's a story that has the look of a folk tale, with symbolism which can be interpreted many ways. It starts with a land under a spell and a beautiful woman under a spell, where a prophecy foretells that one day the curse will be broken. The spell on the land is that the great River divides it in two, and travel across it is limited to three ways: there is a Ferryman who can take people one way but not the other, the magical creature the 'Green Snake' forms a bridge at the height of the sun, at noon (and at the end of the story, also apparently at midnight, although we're not told if that was true from the beginning), and at sunrise and sunset a Giant can carry people across with his magic shadow. Apart from that, there is no permanent way across, but one is foretold; also, there is a great Temple, but it is underground, where the prohecy says it will rise to be by the River. The spell on the woman, Lily, is that, though she is so beautiful, she kills every living thing she touches, and so cannot know Love.
 
    So the story is of how the spell is broken and a new world born. Part of the story of how it happens is that the Young Prince dies for love of the Lily (quite natural for a Romantic like Goethe), and then is restored to life through the sacrifice of the Snake---- who is thus a sort of Christ-figure of redemptive sacrifice. At the end, the Prince becomes the new King with Lily his bride, now no longer cursed, the Man with the Lamp and the Ferryman are his assistants, the Temple, now raised to the surface, is his palace, and the Ferryman's hut has become a smaller temple within the larger. A permanent bridge is upon the River and people can cross in both directions any time. The Giant, who had been a destructive power, becomes a statue/sun-dial whose shadow serves a useful purpose.
 
   The meaning of the tale, then, is how this miraculous redemption and transformation is accomplished. Now, it only kills the spirit of a truly inspired story to say in a dry way, Well, this stands for this, this represents that. Goethe's story is as inspired and alive as any of the old tales gathered by the Grimms. But he clearly shared with Schiller some of the meaning of the story, as the latter wrote him in a letter that, when Goethe was going to revolutionary Paris, he should be careful of getting too near the 'Giant's shadow'. So both understood it as symbolic of the crude power of the ignorant masses. (In Steiner's play it becomes the Spirit of the 'Earth-Brain'.) Every character in it and every event can likewise be interpreted. Perhaps people here would like to offer their suggestions of what its symbols mean to you.
 
   I'll just say a bit of an overall interpretation. Its various characters and events all tell a symbolic story of how Man can move from his 'fallen' state to one where the Spirit is accessible to him daily, instead of being that beautiful reality we can only see by dying. A sacrifice or Mystic Death is involved in reaching this state, just as Christ's death on the Cross was necessary in history, or as a German mystic put it, Though Christ be crucified on Calvary a thousand times, unless you set up that Cross in you, it is of no power. The Lily is the true Spiritual world. In the Mystery Play Steiner calls her Maria (she was, of course, played by his wife Marie), and he calls the Green Snake "The OTHER Maria." So the Snake is in some way the power of Nature, of the merely natural within us (green is the color of nature). She is thus a reflection of the Spirit in its true nature over there, but one that must die to itself in order to be reborn as what it really is. She must first be infused with Light, intelligence, and then seek the mystic Death and Rebirth. Goethe: "Und so langt du nich hast dies, 'Stirb und werde!', du ist nur ein Truber Gast en der dunkeln Erde." [ And so long as you do not have this, Die and Become!, you are but a troubled guest on this darkened Earth.] The first Mystery Play thus likewise portrays this Path of self-transformation. It also begins with a man separated sorrowfully from his Beloved, and through what he experiences, they are rejoined by the end of it.

Starman
www.DrStarman.com

---

******* The characters in the Fairy Tale and in the Mystery Play:
 
   FAIRY TALE                          MYSTERY PLAY
 
The Ferryman                      The Spirit of the Elements
The 2 Will-o-Wisps                   Capesius and Strader
Maria                                        Lily
Philia                              
Luna                                  } Lily's 3 Hand Maidens
Astrid
Johannes                             The Young Prince
The Other Maria                    The Green Snake
The 4 Kings-Gold                   Benedictus
                Silver                  Theodosius
               Copper (Bronze)     Romanus
               Mixed                    Retardus
 The Man With the Lamp         Felix Balde
 His Wife                              Felicia Balde
The Giant                             Gairman (The Earth Brain)
 
     ...and 2 minor characters I did not have in my summary:
The Hawk                             Theodora
The Canary                            Child


 

Goethe's Fairy Tale of the Green Snake and the Beautiful Lily -Outline

 

Scene One: The River

It starts in an un-named land at night, one divided by a great River. A Ferryman is one way to cross the river. Two Will-O-Wisps come to him asking to be taken over, to see the beautiful Lily who they have heard lives on the other side. (Will-O-Wisps are legendary 'fairies' made of flame who can "drink" gold and then send it out of themselves in gold coins.) They go to pay the Ferryman in gold, but he says he can't take it but must be paid in fruits of the earth, which they know nothing about: but magic forces them to agree to pay him 9 fruits, 3 of each of 3 kinds. He lets them leave, and then throws the gold down a chasm in the rocks.

 

Scene Two: The Green Snake and the Gold

   Now we switch to down below, where a mysterious creature, the Green Snake, lives. She has always lived in darkness but has heard a legend about it being possible to have light with the aid of gold; and she swallows the gold when it comes down and becomes radiant. She goes up above to find where it came from and sees the Will-o-Wisps, who offer her more. They ask where to find the Lily but are told she is on the other side of the River, and there are only three ways to cross: the Ferryman at night (but he can only bring people from the farther shore to here, not back), the Snake herself makes a magical bridge of her own body at noon, and a certain Giant has a magic shadow which, shadows being longest at sunrise and sunset, can carry people across the river then. The creatures of the fairy-world leave.

 

Scene Three: The Subterranean Temple

    The Snake now descends to the underground Temple, which she has often visited, but could only feel by touch the figures there in darkness; now that she is radiant, she longs to see them as well. When she enters with her new Light, she sees they are 4 statues of Kings, of gold, silver, bronze and one of all 3 mixed. The gold King speaks to her now that she is 'enlightened', in a cryptic conversation, like a Masonic rite, where the Snake knows the answers to give, about gold and light and speech. Suddenly appears the Man with the Lamp, who moves through walls by the light of his Lamp dissolving the metal seams in the rock. He now continues this clearly symbolic conversation with the Kings. He says he knows three secrets but needs to know the fourth one: the Snake says she knows it, and whispers in his ear, and he declares "The time is at hand!" and speeds away west from the Temple while the snake runs east.

 

   Scene Four : The Man With The Lamp's Cottage

   The Man with the Lamp returns to his cottage, and his wife tells him how the 2 Will-o-Wisps visited there while he was gone, absorbed all the gold from the walls which his Lamp had created (for it turns rock to gold) and shook out gold pieces, one of which their dog ate and died. She says she has promised to pay their debt of 9 earth-fruits to the Ferryman for them. The Man changes the Dog to a gem with his Lamp and tells her to bring it to the Lily, who would bring its dead form back to life just as her touch turns any living thing dead, and to tell her that her curse will soon be lifted---for 'the time is at hand!'

  

Scene Five : The Way To The Lily

   The woman heads east in the morning, to the River, to pay the Ferryman. But the Giant' s shadow steals three of the vegetables she has in her basket. The Ferryman will only take the payment if she puts her hand into the River and promises to pay the third she owes it within a day. When she does so, her hand turns black and begins to shrink. The Ferryman had brought over a young handsome Prince whom she walks to the Lily with, who says he has lost all interest in his earthly kingdom since seeing the beautiful Lily. They cross at noon on the Snake-Bridge, which is changed now that the Snake has become luminous. The Will-o-Wisps also cross, although they are invisible at noon and only heard.

 

Scene Six: The Kingdom of the Lily

   The group arrives at the grove where the beautiful Lily is singing along with playing her harp, with her 3 hand-maidens. The woman gives her the gem and says her husband declares the curse will soon end, and the Lily sees a fulfilment of prophecy in the events, but says the spell will only be broken when she hears the words "The time is at hand" 3 times, where she has heard it only twice. The Youth cannot bear to see her playing with the dog she has restored to a half-life and therefore can touch, and at last throws himself upon her, and dies at her touch.

Scene Seven: The Procession to the River

  The Snake forms a magic circle around the Young Prince's body to preserve it until the Man with the Lamp arrives, whose lamp light prevents the body from decaying. All the company proceeds to the River where the Snake once again forms a bridge, now at midnight, for them to cross. All seem to know a ritual they must perform. The Snake offers to sacrifice herself; Lily touches her and the Prince, and he is restored to a half-life while the Snake disintegrates into precious stones which are gathered and thrown in the River.

 

Scene Eight: The Temple Rises

   The Man with the Lamp now leads them all to the subterranean Temple, whose gold lock the Will-o-Wisps dissolve; once more a Masonic-style exchange occurs, at the end of which the Man with the Lamp says the words "The time is at hand" for the third time, breaking the Lily's spell. The Temple rises through the rock, through the River, and displaces the Ferryman's hut. Everything and everyone is changed, the Man with the Lamp speaks of the 3 great Powers, and the Prince, now fully restored to life and united to his Lily, speaks of the 4th Power, Love. The 4th King collapses, as the Will-o-Wisps have eaten all the gold in his form. The Man with the Lamp's wife is restored to her youth and health. The Giant is transformed into a statue near the Temple, and his shadow becomes that of a sun-dial, marking the hours. All things are renewed.

 

.

---

 

.

---

Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary! Check it out!

PUBLICIDADE


"Ainda que Cristo nascesse mil vezes em Belém
mas não em vossa Alma
Ainda assim estaríeis perdidos.

Na verdade, a Palavra Eterna
sempre está nascendo no hoje.
Onde? Em um alma que se perdeu
em si mesma.

Somente passa pela porta da beatitude
quem tiver renascido
em uma vida totalmente nova.

Ó homem, tu perguntas
Onde podes encontrar o Trono
de Deus?
Ele está onde Deus renasce em ti...

Como seu Filho, se renasces em Deus, em
certo sentido fazes com que
Ele renasça em ti.
Quando sais de ti, Ele
entra em Ti."

Angelus Silesius, in: "O Peregrino Querubínico"

FELIZ NATAL! E UM PROSPERO ANO NOVO PRA TODOS!

--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Alexandre" <hercullesrj@...> wrote:
>
> PUBLICIDADE
>
>
> "Ainda que Cristo nascesse mil vezes em Belém
> mas não em vossa Alma
> Ainda assim estaríeis perdidos.
>
> Na verdade, a Palavra Eterna
> sempre está nascendo no hoje.
> Onde? Em um alma que se perdeu
> em si mesma.
>
> Somente passa pela porta da beatitude
> quem tiver renascido
> em uma vida totalmente nova.
>
> Ó homem, tu perguntas
> Onde podes encontrar o Trono
> de Deus?
> Ele está onde Deus renasce em ti...
>
> Como seu Filho, se renasces em Deus, em
> certo sentido fazes com que
> Ele renasça em ti.
> Quando sais de ti, Ele
> entra em Ti."
>
> Angelus Silesius, in: "O Peregrino Querubínico"
>
> FELIZ NATAL! E UM PROSPERO ANO NOVO PRA TODOS!

Muy muchas gracias, Alexandre! Y por tu, Feliz Navidad y Anno Nuevo!
[Me no hablar Portugese y un poquito muy mal Espanol...:) ]

Sheila
>

---

To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
From: DrStarman@...
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:14:31 -0500
Subject: RE: [steiner] The Fairy Tale/Mystery Play

*******Well, we now have 5 days. The Play has eleven scenes: would someone like to volunteer to present one of them?
-Starman
www.DrStarman.com

---

To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
From: DrStarman@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:34:30 -0500
Subject: RE: [steiner] The Fairy Tale

******* We can look at the "märchen" or fairy tale as a work of literature. It's a story that has the look of a folk tale, with symbolism which can be interpreted many ways. It starts with a land under a spell and a beautiful woman under a spell, where a prophecy foretells that one day the curse will be broken. The spell on the land is that the great River divides it in two, and travel across it is limited to three ways: there is a Ferryman who can take people one way but not the other, the magical creature the 'Green Snake' forms a bridge at the height of the sun, at noon (and at the end of the story, also apparently at midnight, although we're not told if that was true from the beginning), and at sunrise and sunset a Giant can carry people across with his magic shadow. Apart from that, there is no permanent way across, but one is foretold; also, there is a great Temple, but it is underground, where the prohecy says it will rise to be by the River. The spell on the woman, Lily, is that, though she is so beautiful, she kills every living thing she touches, and so cannot know Love.
 
    So the story is of how the spell is broken and a new world born. Part of the story of how it happens is that the Young Prince dies for love of the Lily (quite natural for a Romantic like Goethe), and then is restored to life through the sacrifice of the Snake---- who is thus a sort of Christ-figure of redemptive sacrifice. At the end, the Prince becomes the new King with Lily his bride, now no longer cursed, the Man with the Lamp and the Ferryman are his assistants, the Temple, now raised to the surface, is his palace, and the Ferryman's hut has become a smaller temple within the larger. A permanent bridge is upon the River and people can cross in both directions any time. The Giant, who had been a destructive power, becomes a statue/sun-dial whose shadow serves a useful purpose.
 
   The meaning of the tale, then, is how this miraculous redemption and transformation is accomplished. Now, it only kills the spirit of a truly inspired story to say in a dry way, Well, this stands for this, this represents that. Goethe's story is as inspired and alive as any of the old tales gathered by the Grimms. But he clearly shared with Schiller some of the meaning of the story, as the latter wrote him in a letter that, when Goethe was going to revolutionary Paris, he should be careful of getting too near the 'Giant's shadow'. So both understood it as symbolic of the crude power of the ignorant masses. (In Steiner's play it becomes the Spirit of the 'Earth-Brain'.) Every character in it and every event can likewise be interpreted. Perhaps people here would like to offer their suggestions of what its symbols mean to you.
 
   I'll just say a bit of an overall interpretation. Its various characters and events all tell a symbolic story of how Man can move from his 'fallen' state to one where the Spirit is accessible to him daily, instead of being that beautiful reality we can only see by dying. A sacrifice or Mystic Death is involved in reaching this state, just as Christ's death on the Cross was necessary in history, or as a German mystic put it, Though Christ be crucified on Calvary a thousand times, unless you set up that Cross in you, it is of no power. The Lily is the true Spiritual world. In the Mystery Play Steiner calls her Maria (she was, of course, played by his wife Marie), and he calls the Green Snake "The OTHER Maria." So the Snake is in some way the power of Nature, of the merely natural within us (green is the color of nature). She is thus a reflection of the Spirit in its true nature over there, but one that must die to itself in order to be reborn as what it really is. She must first be infused with Light, intelligence, and then seek the mystic Death and Rebirth. Goethe: "Und so langt du nich hast dies, 'Stirb und werde!', du ist nur ein Truber Gast en der dunkeln Erde." [ And so long as you do not have this, Die and Become!, you are but a troubled guest on this darkened Earth.] The first Mystery Play thus likewise portrays this Path of self-transformation. It also begins with a man separated sorrowfully from his Beloved, and through what he experiences, they are rejoined by the end of it.

Starman

 

.

 

This Hubble Space Telescope image shows Sirius A
www.spacetelescope.org/images/html/heic0516a.html


“The bright and glorious star, who from the shining east, moves along his long winding course,
along the path made by the Gods, along the way appointed for him the watery way…”
— Khorda Avesta


    


Today the Virgin gives birth to the Transcendent One,
And the earth offers a cave to the Unapproachable One!
Angels with shepherds glorify Him!
The wise men journey with a star!
Kontakion for Christmas, Roman the Melodist - Tone 3

Statue of Goddess Isis Holding Horus, Bahariya Museum



Dear friends, I wish you from the heart

Frohe Weihnachten und ein Gutes Neues Jahr!
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Nollaig shona duit agus Bliain úr faoi shéan is faoi mise duit!
God Jul og Godt Nytt År!
God Jul och Gott Nytt År!
 Glædelig Jul og Godt Nytår!
Buon Natale e Felice Anno Nuovo!
Joyeux Noël et Bonne Année!
Polit Nadal e Bona Annada!
Bon Nadal i feliç Any Nou!
Feliz Navidad y Próspero Año Nuevo!
Sretan Božić i sretnu Novu Godinu!
Христос Се Роди и Сређна Нова Година!
Crăciun Fericit şi La Mulţi Ani!
Boldog Karácsonyt és Boldog Újévet!
Veselé Vánoce a Å¡Å¥astný Nový Rok!
Wesołych Świąt i szczęśliwego Nowego Roku!
Linksmu švenčių Kalėdų ir Laimingu naujųjų metų!
З Калядамi ды Новым Годам!
З Різдвом Христовим і з Новим Роком!
C Рождеством Христовым и с Новым Годом!
Շնորհավոր Ամանոր և Սուրբ Ծնունդ
გილოცავთ შობა-ახალ წელს
חג מולד שמח ושנה טובה
كرسمس مبارک
    ã‚¯ãƒªã‚¹ãƒžã‚¹ã¨æ–°å¹´ãŠã‚ã§ã¨ã†ã”ざいます

Betreff: Christmas/Weihnacht

Your Nativity
Has shone to the world the Light of wisdom!
For by it, those who worshipped the stars,
Were taught by a Star to adore You,
The Sun of Righteousness,
And to know You, the Orient from on High.
Troparion - Tone 4




Всевидящіе Око Божіе
The All-Seeing Divine Eye
www.cirota.ru/forum/view.php?subj=70633&order=&pg=0

---

To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
From: DrStarman@...
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 10:06:56 -0500
Subject: [steiner] 12 Holy Nights/Mystery Play study

*******Well, tonight is the first of the 12 Holy Nights. No one has responded to my asking who is going to participate in reading the first Mystery Play and how, not even the people who suggested taking it up for the 12 Holy Nights in the first place. Only Matthew responded about taking Scene Five.
Is anyone out there?
-Starman

---

To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
From: DrStarman@hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:14:31 -0500
Subject: RE: [steiner] The Fairy Tale/Mystery Play

*******Well, we now have 5 days. The Play has eleven scenes: would someone like to volunteer to present one of them?
-Starman
www.DrStarman.com

---

To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
From: DrStarman@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:34:30 -0500
Subject: RE: [steiner] The Fairy Tale

******* We can look at the "märchen" or fairy tale as a work of literature. It's a story that has the look of a folk tale, with symbolism which can be interpreted many ways. It starts with a land under a spell and a beautiful woman under a spell, where a prophecy foretells that one day the curse will be broken. The spell on the land is that the great River divides it in two, and travel across it is limited to three ways: there is a Ferryman who can take people one way but not the other, the magical creature the 'Green Snake' forms a bridge at the height of the sun, at noon (and at the end of the story, also apparently at midnight, although we're not told if that was true from the beginning), and at sunrise and sunset a Giant can carry people across with his magic shadow. Apart from that, there is no permanent way across, but one is foretold; also, there is a great Temple, but it is underground, where the prohecy says it will rise to be by the River. The spell on the woman, Lily, is that, though she is so beautiful, she kills every living thing she touches, and so cannot know Love.
 
    So the story is of how the spell is broken and a new world born. Part of the story of how it happens is that the Young Prince dies for love of the Lily (quite natural for a Romantic like Goethe), and then is restored to life through the sacrifice of the Snake---- who is thus a sort of Christ-figure of redemptive sacrifice. At the end, the Prince becomes the new King with Lily his bride, now no longer cursed, the Man with the Lamp and the Ferryman are his assistants, the Temple, now raised to the surface, is his palace, and the Ferryman's hut has become a smaller temple within the larger. A permanent bridge is upon the River and people can cross in both directions any time. The Giant, who had been a destructive power, becomes a statue/sun-dial whose shadow serves a useful purpose.
 
   The meaning of the tale, then, is how this miraculous redemption and transformation is accomplished. Now, it only kills the spirit of a truly inspired story to say in a dry way, Well, this stands for this, this represents that. Goethe's story is as inspired and alive as any of the old tales gathered by the Grimms. But he clearly shared with Schiller some of the meaning of the story, as the latter wrote him in a letter that, when Goethe was going to revolutionary Paris, he should be careful of getting too near the 'Giant's shadow'. So both understood it as symbolic of the crude power of the ignorant masses. (In Steiner's play it becomes the Spirit of the 'Earth-Brain'.) Every character in it and every event can likewise be interpreted. Perhaps people here would like to offer their suggestions of what its symbols mean to you.
 
   I'll just say a bit of an overall interpretation. Its various characters and events all tell a symbolic story of how Man can move from his 'fallen' state to one where the Spirit is accessible to him daily, instead of being that beautiful reality we can only see by dying. A sacrifice or Mystic Death is involved in reaching this state, just as Christ's death on the Cross was necessary in history, or as a German mystic put it, Though Christ be crucified on Calvary a thousand times, unless you set up that Cross in you, it is of no power. The Lily is the true Spiritual world. In the Mystery Play Steiner calls her Maria (she was, of course, played by his wife Marie), and he calls the Green Snake "The OTHER Maria." So the Snake is in some way the power of Nature, of the merely natural within us (green is the color of nature). She is thus a reflection of the Spirit in its true nature over there, but one that must die to itself in order to be reborn as what it really is. She must first be infused with Light, intelligence, and then seek the mystic Death and Rebirth. Goethe: "Und so langt du nich hast dies, 'Stirb und werde!', du ist nur ein Truber Gast en der dunkeln Erde." [ And so long as you do not have this, Die and Become!, you are but a troubled guest on this darkened Earth.] The first Mystery Play thus likewise portrays this Path of self-transformation. It also begins with a man separated sorrowfully from his Beloved, and through what he experiences, they are rejoined by the end of it.

Starman

 

.

 

---

Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. Share now!

I apologise in advance for bursting into your group (without previous posts,
although I am a
lurker on this group) but I wondered if any of the members would be able to
assist in the
protection of the Steiner Waldorf ethos here in the UK, particularly the early
years.

Please take a look at the following information and sign our petition if you
feel it relevant to
your own thinking.

http://openeyecampaign.wordpress.com/

Kindest regards

--- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "fusiondate" <fusiondate@...> wrote:
>
> I apologise in advance for bursting into your group (without
previous posts, although I am a
> lurker on this group) but I wondered if any of the members would be
able to assist in the
> protection of the Steiner Waldorf ethos here in the UK, particularly
the early years.
>
> Please take a look at the following information and sign our
petition if you feel it relevant to
> your own thinking.
>
> http://openeyecampaign.wordpress.com/
>
> Kindest regards
>
No apologies needed, fusiondate. I visited the site and only UK
citizens or ex-patriates are allowed to sign, so I was unable to help
in any way. I wish all of you success there!
Blessings,
Sheila