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From: ann warren [mailto:a_j_warren_se16@...]
Sent: 09 July 2009 18:14
To: tom@...; greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com; lewishamcyclists@yahoogroups.com; Southwark Cyclists
Subject: RE: [Southwark Cyclists] More on the Peckham "near fatality"

I don't usually have the time or the presence of mind or the inclination to turn round and check eye contact with drivers. It hurts my neck.  Must I give up using my bike? 
 
Cycling is certainly a safe and healthy activity. No-one disputes it. Motor traffic is dangerous for everyone, including motorists. No-one disputes that either. Cycling in motor traffic is something most people don't want to do.  Why try to persuade them?
 
(When I was younger, some drivers used to get the wrong idea every time I turned round and made eye contact.) 
 
In truth, this eye contact business, it's not for old people or girls.
 
 
Ann
 

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To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com; lewishamcyclists@yahoogroups.com; southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
From: tom@...
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 17:21:36 +0100
Subject: RE: [Southwark Cyclists] More on the Peckham "near fatality"

If you are stationary at lights and an HGV stops behind you and you cannot see the driver, pull forward and gain eye contact with the driver.  At least then you know that you have both seen each other.

 

I agree that there is little we can do as individuals to stamp out incompetent drivers.  I also agree that cycling is a safe and healthy activity whose advantages far outweigh any risk.

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From: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com [mailto:southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rob Owens
Sent: 09 July 2009 08:35
To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com; lewishamcyclists@yahoogroups.com; southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Southwark Cyclists] More on the Peckham "near fatality"

Don't understand. Are you suggesting we should try and make eye contact with drivers of vehicles that are approaching from behind? I've had a similar thing almost happen to me as was described in the account. Fortunately there were no railings so was able to dive on the pavement as a lorry overtook and turned left cutting across my lane from the right hand lane at a junction. This is nothing but dangerous criminal driving and I can't really see that we can do much about what's coming up from behind apart from holding the most visible road position possible and taking the lane when narrow. Otherwise being as alert and aware to the actions of overtaking vehicles as possible. There's always the potential for some idiot to run me over or for me to make a mistake but I'm still pretty positive and enjoy cycling in London as apart from the lorry scenarios, which are scary and happening far too much, it is relatively safe as long as I'm careful and don't take silly risks.

 

Rob.

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From: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com [mailto:southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Crispin
Sent: 08 July 2009 21:05
To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com; lewishamcyclists@yahoogroups.com; southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Southwark Cyclists] More on the Peckham "near fatality"

I think that the very best thing to do is position yourself sufficiently far in front of the lorry for you to be able to turn around and gain eye contact with the driver.  If the driver is at the stop line, or has encroached into an ASL reservoir this will mean going ahead of the stop line.  (I have wondered if one of the reasons for female cyclists to be more vulnerable to left turning lorries is that they prefer not to gain eye contact with drivers as some may fear being leered at.)

 

If you are directly in front of the lorry the driver may have to move his position forward to be able to see you.

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From: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com [mailto:southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Bryan
Sent: 08 July 2009 19:27
To: Tom Crispin; greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com; lewishamcyclists@yahoogroups.com; southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Southwark Cyclists] More on the Peckham "near fatality"

In this situation I cycle directly in front of the lorry. Am I wrong ?

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From: southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com [mailto:southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Crispin
Sent: 08 July 2009 19:20
To: greenwichcyclists@yahoogroups.com; lewishamcyclists@yahoogroups.com; southwarkcyclists@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Southwark Cyclists] More on the Peckham "near fatality"

I have this information from a friend who has spoken to the lady who was
nearly killed by the driver of an HGV at the junction of Peckham High Street
and Bellenden Road. As a general warning, when reading this, you should
bear in mind that this is not a direct account of events, but my recall of
my friends recall of the account given by the victim. It is presented as a
factual account, but inaccuracies are likely to be present.

==========

The injured lady is due to be released from hospital tomorrow (9 July 2009).
She suffered a broken pelvis and a crushed leg. Despite the severity of her
injuries, it is expected that she will walk again.

She was well ahead of the lorry at the junction of Peckham High Street and
Bellenden Road. The first that she was aware of the lorry was when it
passed her on her right, and turned across her path. The side of the lorry
came right up to her, and continued coming closer. She recalls banging,
shouting and hammering on the side of the lorry as she was pushed up to the
railings. She recalls falling under the wheels of the lorry, the wheel
running over her leg and being pulled upwards into the body of the lorry.
The lorry then stopped and reversed, coming to rest on her leg. She was
conscious the whole time the emergency services spent at the scene to
release her from under the wheel of the lorry.

The driver of the lorry and the driver's mate were lost and were turning
left to stop in a loading bay to find out where they were. The driver of the
lorry has been charged with driving without due care and attention.

Several witnesses support the account given by the victim, and there is no
suggestion that at any time did the victim cycle up the inside of the lorry.

===========

I wonder how often cyclists who are killed by HGV drivers do cycle up the
inside of large vehicles. It is often the claim made by the driver, but it
is easier to live with killing someone if you convince yourself that the
victim has done something dangerous, and that dangerous action has
contributed to their own death. That said, every cyclist should be made
aware of the peril of passing large vehicles on their left, and there should
be no let up in the campaign to alert cyclists and educate the drivers of
large vehicles.

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