Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
solomonic · Secrets of the Grimoires
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Message search is now enhanced, find messages faster. Take it for a spin.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
HGA WORK   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #5892 of 10461 |
Re: HGA WORK

--- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, + Kempis <kempis057@...> wrote:

> One of the rules in the Abramelin is that the
> practicioner should return to the religion they were
> born into. In my case, this is Catholicism. I did
> make an attempt to return to it (hence the name
> Kempis), but was reminded of why I left.

Just for the record- the German original of Abramelin makes this point
much clearer than the French-to-English translation. Apparently,
anyone of any religion can attain the Sacred Magick - except a
*Jewish* person who has left Judaism for another religion.

Previously, scholars have suggested the "don't change your birth
religion" instruction was due to the manner in which conversions took
place at the time. It wasn't like today where you just decide to
explore another religion and go for it. Back then, you had to
formally *renounce* the old religion and accept the Universal Truth
(tm) of the religion to which you converted.

Personally, I think that idea still applies to the new understanding.
Maybe folks raised Muslim, Christian or Pagan can change to another
religion- but because Abramelin is inherently Jewish Mysticism, one
cannot have *renounced* Judaism as false and still expect to perform
Abramelin.

After all, the German original instructs the aspirant to observe all
Jewish fasts and holy days during the span of the Operation. So,
having formally renounced those fasts and holy days as "tricks of the
Devil" could be problematic. Meanwhile, this wouldn't be a problem
for someone who has switched from some other religion to yet another
religion. Even less so if they switched *to* Judaism.

LVX
Aaron




Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:51 am

kheph777
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

Forward
Message #5892 of 10461 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

DEAR FRATER RO, I want to thank you for your efforts in simplifying the work of the hga. i believe we need more people like yourself,magick should not be...
fsforde
Offline Send Email
Mar 1, 2007
3:26 pm

... Thanks, I appreciate that. I don't think the HGA is something that can be too-simplified, ultimately., It's such a sublime relationship... But I don't see...
fraterredactumopus
fraterredact...
Offline Send Email
Mar 1, 2007
6:40 pm

... It doesn't take 18 months. It takes three days. ;) You have one day of consecration and prayer, three days of invocation of the Angel, and three days of...
Aaron
kheph777
Offline Send Email
Mar 1, 2007
8:20 pm

Hi Aaron, ... Do you know anywhere online where an Orisha rite like that is available? I would like to study it, and others like it, in comparison to...
+ Kempis
kempis057
Offline Send Email
Mar 1, 2007
10:46 pm

As a polytheist, I am wondering why you feel there are ethical problems here? The below sounds like "hard polytheists who do not believe in a unity need not...
Scarlet Magdalene
scarlet_magd...
Offline Send Email
Mar 11, 2007
8:52 pm

Actually, via Luric Kabalah it means *EXACTLY* the opposite- Each Sepheroph/Angel is a Sub-Personility of the Allah/Achad One God, similar in fact ti the very...
Serpentis Satori
serpentsatori
Offline Send Email
Mar 12, 2007
4:40 am

Yeah, I see them as daimons, not sub-personalities. -sm ... -- "Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one." Marcus Aurelius ~ "For I...
Scarlet Magdalene
scarlet_magd...
Offline Send Email
Mar 12, 2007
8:48 pm

That is because you & I are Poly theists. I was showing the Xian Qabalists, that its actually foundational to thier system in its original Jewish Form, where...
Serpentis Satori
serpentsatori
Offline Send Email
Mar 13, 2007
4:33 am

Hi Scarlet Magdalene, Thank you for knowing technical terms! I do mean hard polytheism (henotheism). My background is with other ceremonial styles and...
+ Kempis
kempis057
Offline Send Email
Mar 12, 2007
9:07 am

... Henotheism isn't hard polytheism--it's soft polytheism. In henotheism you're saying that you either believe in multiple gods but one is superior above the...
Scarlet Magdalene
scarlet_magd...
Offline Send Email
Mar 12, 2007
8:50 pm

Hi again Scarlet Magdalene, ... Okay. I use the term Henotheism because, while I acknowledge a multitude of gods, in practice I only interact with a few. I...
+ Kempis
kempis057
Offline Send Email
Mar 13, 2007
8:16 am

Kempis says: Okay. I guess 40 people can now jump in to tell me how stupid, uneducated, foolish, mistaken, or naive I am. I've come to expect that from mages....
Susanne Iles
susanne.iles
Offline Send Email
Mar 13, 2007
4:32 am

... Just for the record- the German original of Abramelin makes this point much clearer than the French-to-English translation. Apparently, anyone of any...
Aaron
kheph777
Offline Send Email
Mar 13, 2007
4:52 am

... ROFLMFAO! Ooh, I'm disqualified! :D Actually, I'm technically *not*, interestingly enough. I'm Jewish by heritage but was never an actual believer or...
Scarlet Magdalene
scarlet_magd...
Offline Send Email
Mar 13, 2007
12:09 pm

... But what if you weren't born into, or raised within, *any* religion? I suspect the reason behind this "Abramelin rule" is that the Operation is tapping...
marginaleye
Offline Send Email
Mar 13, 2007
4:19 pm

... Greetings! For the record, I didn't write the above. I was responding to it. ;) ... Then you haven't renounced Judaism, so you're cool. :) Oddly...
Aaron
kheph777
Offline Send Email
Mar 13, 2007
4:46 pm

... I would definitely fit that description...at least the raised within part. -sm -- "Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one." ...
Scarlet Magdalene
scarlet_magd...
Offline Send Email
Mar 14, 2007
3:43 am

... Yes, I totally agree. I think that the conversation is the first step in creating this intimate relationship though, and that it continues to develop over...
Fr. R. O.
fraterredact...
Offline Send Email
Mar 2, 2007
7:54 am

... Conversation. ... step in ... to develop ... I think the whole thing is a bit hard to define that concretely. With a system like Abramelin, one could argue...
Aaron
kheph777
Offline Send Email
Mar 3, 2007
6:33 am

... Thanks so much, Aaron. I figured you would be able to blow away my theory completely if anyone could. :) My intent is to develop a method based on the...
Fr. R. O.
fraterredact...
Offline Send Email
Mar 3, 2007
6:57 am

... Actually, it's much easire for a woman to convert to Judaism than for a man. For a woman, there's no cutting of very sensitive body parts. Even a...
Jim Casler
frater_cunic...
Offline Send Email
Mar 14, 2007
3:44 am

... Actually, I hear it isn't. I know of two Jewish converts and they got in because a) they have Jewish blood somewhere and b) weren't doing it in order to...
Scarlet Magdalene
scarlet_magd...
Offline Send Email
Mar 14, 2007
4:16 am

Ok, let me rephrase that a little. It IS easier, but it's not at all "easy." Judaism, for the most part, does not encourage conversion. You really, really have...
Jim Casler
frater_cunic...
Offline Send Email
Mar 15, 2007
4:41 am
Advanced

Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help