I use a Flysurfer 19M SilverArrow 2 on light days.  It is a big foil
with enough power to pull you through deep powder even on the light
days.  The lighter fabric drops the kites weight by 50%. I have been
bugging Brian, Heather and Rob W. to make a Manta II using this
fabric, but no success so far, so I am using the FS as my big kite.

It is a good jumping kite, but it excels for gliding.  It is like a
paraglider with long lines.

I use it all summer on the water.  Range is 6 - 18 mph on the snow
and 9 - 18 mph on the water.  I weigh 180 LBS.

I will be at the Snowkite Masters on Friday and Saturday if the wind
is good.  Hope to see some of you there.  Look for the big white
kite, that is the SA2.




--- In snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Brickner"
<jasonbrickner@...> wrote:
>
> You're correct.  At all times simple physics are going to apply.
>
> How are your kite pumping and edging skills.  On the snow you can
get away
> with fairly crude control and still move and have a good time.
Once you're
> on the water it takes so much more kite control and finesse to
maintain
> plane, heading, and speed.  It took us all years to gain these
skills.  Be
> patient.  You may think you're getting everything out of the kite,
but I'll
> bet you could strap a 100 lb sandbag on Eddy and he could still
make it
> work.  I'll watch him on a 15m kite out at lucky peak riding upwind
and
> JUMPING when there was barley enough wind to launch my 17m kite.
>
> Pumping the kite, edging the board, creating apparent wind,
maintaining
> speed, riding without looking at the kite, going upwind, jumping
all take
> years to master.
>
> Hope to meet you soon.
> -Jason
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Dave
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 12:25 PM
> To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] big kite
>
>
>
> I agree with most of what you said, but it isn't 100% how you work
your
> kite.
> If i'm 80 pounds heavier than eddy, and we are on the same kite,
when
> we "pop", he's going to go a lot higher than I can.....
> At the snow kite event, at 4:30pm, as the winds were dying, I didn't
> have the power to get back up the hill, but the smaller guys, on
15's
> could.... Sometimes more power is helpful... when jumping.... when
> going uphill.... but on the flats, if the drag from Eddy and myself
> were the same (assuming we are both on ski's) then it's all about
how
> you move the kite....
> I REALLY don't want to go LEI on the snow though..... Not sure what
> I'm going to do.
>
> :)
>
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Jason Brickner <jasonbrickner@
> <mailto:jasonbrickner%40msn.com> msn.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey Dave,
> >
> > I'm 190-200lbs (depending on how much beer I drink in a week). I
flew a
> 17m
> > Slingshot fuel in 12-17mph wind about a month ago and felt
perfect. I
> can't
> > imagine having another 60-70lbs to haul around. I would probably
feel like
> > I wanted more kite too. However, I look at Jay who is bigger than
me and
> he
> > makes it work on the water with a 16m bow kite. It takes MUCH
MORE kite to
> > get going on water than on snow. Eddy is totally right in that a
lot of it
> > comes down to kite handling and creating apparent wind. The
faster you go
> > the more wind your kite sees which pulls harder which makes you
go faster
> > which makes more apparent wind which pulls harder which makes you
go
> faster
> > ... you get the point.
> >
> > For what it's worth, setting up an inflatable in deep snow can be
a
> > 45minutes task. It SUCKS! Which is why you'll see me out on the
water far
> > more than the snow. I don't have the money for two types of
kites. I guess
> > if you were setting up at the sno-mo park, that would be a
different
> story.
> >
> > Really, Jay would be a good resource to talk about kite size.
He's been
> > there and done that, and been there and done that, and been there
and done
> > that.....
> >
> > ;-)
> >
> > -Jason
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: snowkiteidaho@ <mailto:snowkiteidaho%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@
> <mailto:snowkiteidaho%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of Dave
> > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:40 AM
> > To: snowkiteidaho@ <mailto:snowkiteidaho%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [snowkiteidaho] big kite
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > So, I'm a big boy, and I feel like even if I get a 15 next year,
I'm
> > not going to have the same "ratio of power" or "lift" that say a
> > "normal" sized guy gets on a 15.
> > Heather said that Ozone's biggest kites in 09 will still be 15,
so I'm
> > screwed.
> >
> > I mean, simple math, if I'm 60 pounds heaver than a "normal" guy
at
> > 200 pounds, and he is happy (and safe) on a 15m, then
> > 260*15/200 = 19.5. So to have the same loft I would need a 19.5m
kite.
> >
> > So where can I get a dual foil 20m depowerable kite? On a related
> > note, is anyone else in the group an EMT besides me?
> >
> > grin
> >
> > --
> > o
> > <|v
> > / >
> >
> > o
> > <|}\
> > / >
> >
> > O
> > <@>
> > / \
> >
>
> --
> o
> <|v
> / >
>
> o
> <|}\
> / >
>
> O
> <@>
> / \
>

---

To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
From: jaunemaillot@...
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:40:28 -0700
Subject: [snowkiteidaho] big kite

So, I'm a big boy, and I feel like even if I get a 15 next year, I'm
not going to have the same "ratio of power" or "lift" that say a
"normal" sized guy gets on a 15.
Heather said that Ozone's biggest kites in 09 will still be 15, so I'm screwed.

I mean, simple math, if I'm 60 pounds heaver than a "normal" guy at
200 pounds, and he is happy (and safe) on a 15m, then
260*15/200 = 19.5. So to have the same loft I would need a 19.5m kite.

So where can I get a dual foil 20m depowerable kite? On a related
note, is anyone else in the group an EMT besides me?

grin

--
o
<|v
/ >

o
<|}\
/ >

O
<@>
/ \

I agree that technique is more important than the size of the kite.  However, I
do think
that the SA2 is a secret weapon for light wind riding for kiters that weigh over
170 LBS.

It is true that big kites are slower, but for light winds they are sometimes the
only thing
that works.  I have been kiting for 8 years.  I can't tell you how many sessions
I have had
where the SLC crew is standing on the shore waiting for the wind to come up and
I am
riding and boosting.  Half of my sessions last year were solo because the
forecast was on
the light side, so no one else bothered to drive to the lake.

A lot of riders have the attitude that light wind riding is no fun, but we live
inland where
the wind is not light and steady.  It is light and gusty.  So the trick is to
have a big enough
kite and board to ride through the lulls and then boost in the gusts.  So on a
typical
session I go out and ride back and forth in 8 mph wind, the wind gusts to 12 and
I throw a
double backroll.

Last weekend I went to Strawberry  another kiter could not get his kite in the
air because
the wind was blowing around 8.  Threw up my kite and had enough power to ride. 
I could
not boost, but that was solved by riding up a nearby hill and gliding off.  50
feet in the air
in 8 mph, all you need is a steep hill and an oversized kite.

I am no foil junky.  Most of my kites are LEI's.  However, for the light stuff,
nothing beats a
big foil built with light fabric.  It has doubled the number of days I have had
on the water
and increased my days on the snow by 25%.



--- In snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Brickner" <jasonbrickner@...>
wrote:
>
> TRUE... TRUE... TRUE....
>
> Darrel couldn't have said it better.  I struggled for 3 years in the water
> at lucky peak before it clicked.  I  can;t tell you how many times I did the
> walk of shame.  You should be happy you're out ripping it up already.
>
> The cool thing is though, once you get 'dialed' it's like riding a bike.
>
> Cheers...
> -Jason
>
>   _____
>
> From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Darrel Thomas
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 9:12 PM
> To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] big kite
>
>
>
>
> Dave,
>
> There IS a learning curve.  Fuck the math.  I could jump over Eddy with a
> 12m.  There is a lot to learn that is not "book learning."  It is about
> spending time with the kite on the snow getting the feel of how it powers up
> and how to boost the rockin' big air.  True, you're heavier, but bigger
> isn't always the answer.  Bigger is slower, and that will cost you pop. My
> 190lbs ass has taken that vary kite you own and been over 30 feet in a 12-15
> mph wind.  So maybe you won't hit 30ft, but is 25 too small for you?  It IS
> in the way you stroke her. Next time we go up, come with me, and I will make
> you shit your pants.  It's like going up wind, it seems like you just can't
> do it 'till all of sudden you make the connection.  Next thing you know,
> you're jumping like the big dogs.
>
> REMEMBER; YOU ARE JUST FIGURING THIS OUT.  How many rides so far? 10?
> You're WAY ahead of the curve!  Some guys kite for 2-3 years before they get
> off the ground.
>
> Darrel
>
> From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Ryan Wait
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 5:53 PM
> To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [snowkiteidaho] big kite
>
> Dave, dont be afraid to use LEI's on the snow. I can be pumped and riding
> within minutes of the foil boys. A big bow kite like a 16-18m is as big as
> you will ever need. Most kite makers stop around 16-18 meter. Beyond that
> kites are super slow flying turds. You are not the only 260 lb kiter. for
> snow you need to get bigger floaty skiis, and for the water your favor board
> size is going to be big, 145cm x 44cm ish. I watched a 270 lb guy who's
> belly was hanging over his spreader bar catch air on a 14m frenzy in 9 mph
> winds. Guys half his size could not keep a 14m in the air. Skill is
> everything.
>
> BTW- All the foil boys riding 15m are good riders, they will usually put up
> a 15m, but would have been fine on a 10m or 12m. All the Manta guys are
> putting up a 15m in 4-25 mph. 5 years ago they would have been on a 10m in
> winds over 20 mph.
>
> Loft is a function of wind speed, kite size, and body mass. with the right
> winds a 12 meter will give you more loft than your shorts can handle.
>
> Cheers,
> RTW
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
> From: jaunemaillot@...
> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:40:28 -0700
> Subject: [snowkiteidaho] big kite
>
> So, I'm a big boy, and I feel like even if I get a 15 next year, I'm
> not going to have the same "ratio of power" or "lift" that say a
> "normal" sized guy gets on a 15.
> Heather said that Ozone's biggest kites in 09 will still be 15, so I'm
> screwed.
>
> I mean, simple math, if I'm 60 pounds heaver than a "normal" guy at
> 200 pounds, and he is happy (and safe) on a 15m, then
> 260*15/200 = 19.5. So to have the same loft I would need a 19.5m kite.
>
> So where can I get a dual foil 20m depowerable kite? On a related
> note, is anyone else in the group an EMT besides me?
>
> grin
>
> --
> o
> <|v
> / >
>
> o
> <|}\
> / >
>
> O
> <@>
> / \
>
>   _____
>
> Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! Learn more.
> <http://biggestloser.msn.com/>
>

http://snowkitesoldier.com/blog/index.html

What a weekend.  Thank you for supporting.  See you
next year.


      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

What a great day!!! Sunny, warm, and wind.

6 of us enjoyed the area called "Big Easy?" South side of Featherville
road at the turn out. Steve Linane forgot some of his gear so he
borrowed my skis...Pretty entertaining, but did not take him long
before he was hucking it!!!

Found some new Terrain and made the most of airtime over it. J got
video and hopefully posts some soon. Look for DC "Dangling Chrizzo".
Darrel disappeared off in the Southern horizon again, mental note if
you follow Darrel bring skins, poles and/or snowshoes...Could be a
long hike back!!!

Eddy





--- In snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com, "Eddy" <geardaddyllc@...> wrote:
>
> Winds blowing leaving Alby's at 2:15 figuring it will clear and plenty
> of fresh.
>
> Eddy
>

 

Is anyone going to Utah for the Snowkite Masters this weekend?  I'm not, and I want to play on the Camus this weekend, so I figured I'd check -

 

wr

---

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

http://snowkitesoldier.com/blog/index.html

What a weekend.  Thank you for supporting.  See you
next year.


      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Eddy,

If you go to the Snowkite Masters, say hello.  I drive a White Ford
F150 Pickup Truck with UT plates.  I wear a dark green olive jacket
and I will be flying a FS white SA2 or a Waroo 17M.  I will be there
Friday/Saturday.

Kenny
--- In snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com, "Darrel Thomas"
<darrelthomas@...> wrote:
>
> I'll be around.
>
>
>
> Sat might be soupy.  Sun I think holds good promise of our usual
> post-frontal NW 15mph day.  If it looks good, I am thinking of
launching an
> expedition; "In Search of Deerhaven." (That'd be that poles & skins
thing.
> Better to even have that GPS and cellphone thang.)
>
>
>
> Darrel
>
> 208 484-6766
>
>
>
> From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Gear Daddy LLC
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:07 AM
> To: Snowkiteidaho
> Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] masters
>
>
>
> I think I'm the only one going.
>
> Sent from
>
> Eddy Petranek
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 26, 2008, at 10:44 AM, Whitney Rearick <whitnuld@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Is anyone going to Utah for the Snowkite Masters this weekend?  I'm
not, and
> I want to play on the Camus this weekend, so I figured I'd check -
>
>
>
> wr
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try
>
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i
62sR8H
> DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20>  it now.
>

“I wonder if the wind hugging plank launching liberals will tolerate the gas guzzling beer chugging carbon monoxide spouting eardrum shattering conservatives?”

More on this later as people reply and I have time to prepare!

Westy

You a Cwazy.  But i think thats got my name all over it.  Lets call
it the end of season MOAB/ Birthday party for Chris, however i will
have had my actual birthday a bit earlier.  Im still willing to allow
everyone to celebrate however.  Its cuz im such a nice guy..
Peace.

--- In snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com, Mark Westerdoll
<westerdoll@...> wrote:
>
>
> If you are reading this you are invited to the MOAB, (Mother of all
Bashes.) Here is the deal; let's get together and have an end of
winter campout on the Camus Prarie with as many wild idiots as we can
muster for one weekend. The dates are March 28-30, that's the weekend
after Easter for those calendarically handicapped. The place is the
snowmobile parking area on highway 20, 3.8 miles past the
Pine/Featherville road. There shouldn't be any trouble with crowds
that late in the season and there should still be plenty of snow. It
is large enough for 50 motorhomes. Picture this! Freestyle kiting
competition and/or big air competition judged by 30 drunken
snowmobilers, and a ski jouring competition with sleds pulling skiers
thru an obstacle course timed by the kiters. I foresee blenders with
throttles, wood fired hot tubs, loud music by Briggs, and of course,
a conflageratory bonfire until dawn or the sun comes up, which ever
comes first.
> "I wonder if the wind hugging plank launching liberals will
tolerate the gas guzzling beer chugging carbon monoxide spouting
eardrum shattering conservatives?"
>
> More on this later as people reply and I have time to prepare!
> Westy
>

I'm in for Friday, but I need to be back by 6pm.  So I'll be driving
myself, and I prefer slackers.
I'm go to leave as early as 1pm, when do you want to go Darrell?  You
want to head to CamASS or?


On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Darrel Thomas
<darrelthomas@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Oh man, I got shit to do Friday.  So, no need to my for my sorry ass if
> y'all can go earlier…
>
>
>
> Have fun.
>
>
>
> I am still hanging my hopes on a rockin' NW on Sunday.  Might happen
> Saturday afternoon though…
>
>
>
> DT
>
>
>
>
>
> From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of tony williams
>  Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 8:54 AM
>  To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
>
>  Subject: [snowkiteidaho] Friday looks like blue skies and some good wind
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> MOSTLY SUNNY. HIGHS 48 TO 58. EAST WINDS 10 TO 20 MPH
>
>
> Friday looks like a great opportunity so I will be at the Albertsons parking
> lot for the usual 2:15 departure. Hope to see some of you there.
>  Bring your sunscreen!
>
>
>
>
>
> Sat may also be good but expect low visibility as there is a 50% chance of
> rain or snow for the Magic Valley and changing wind directions.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
>  From: Jon Bolt <idakiteman@...>
>  To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:38:20 PM
>  Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] The Kitingman/Sledapallooza party
>
>
>
> Great idea Mark !!!!  Unfortunate for me, my son has a basketball tournament
> that weekend, so not sure if I'll be able to make it.
>
>
>
>
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
> On 2/27/08, Mark Westerdoll <westerdoll@msn. com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> If you are reading this you are invited to the MOAB, (Mother of all Bashes.)
> Here is the deal; let's get together and have an end of winter campout on
> the Camus Prarie with as many wild idiots as we can muster for one weekend.
> The dates are March 28-30, that's the weekend after Easter for those
> calendarically handicapped. The place is the snowmobile parking area on
> highway 20, 3.8 miles past the Pine/Featherville road. There shouldn't be
> any trouble with crowds that late in the season and there should still be
> plenty of snow. It is large enough for 50 motorhomes.
>
>  Picture this! Freestyle kiting competition and/or big air competition
> judged by 30 drunken snowmobilers, and a ski jouring competition with sleds
> pulling skiers thru an obstacle course timed by the kiters. I foresee
> blenders with throttles, wood fired hot tubs, loud music by Briggs, and of
> course, a conflageratory bonfire until dawn or the sun comes up, which ever
> comes first.
>
>
>
> "I wonder if the wind hugging plank launching liberals will tolerate the gas
> guzzling beer chugging carbon monoxide spouting eardrum shattering
> conservatives? "
>
>
>
> More on this later as people reply and I have time to prepare!
>
> Westy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ________________________________
>
>
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
>



--
   o
<|v
  / >

   o
<|}\
  / >

   O
<@>
   / \

i'm in

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Jason Brickner <jasonbrickner@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ok... I'm gonna shoot for Sunday now.
>
> -Hope it was good for everyone.
>
> -Jason
>
>  ________________________________
>  From: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Darrel Thomas
> Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 3:04 PM
> To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [snowkiteidaho] WEEEEE-k end
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sat/Sun both look good.  Sat maybe a little gusty and low vis… Sunday might
> be a little lighter, but steady and good vis.  I'd love to do both, but, in
> the interest of continued marital bliss, I will stick to one or the other.
> So far, I choose Sunday, unless things drastically change in the forecast
> tomorrow morning.
>
>
>
> Figuring on heading out about 10, as long as the wind has started.
>
>
>
> Darrel
>
> 484-6766
>
>
>
>



--
   o
<|v
  / >

   o
<|}\
  / >

   O
<@>
   / \

Russ and I coincidentally hooked up out at slackers.
Snow is acceptable, it was 50degrees.
The wind was OK for 30 minutes but then died off....
I hope you guys had some good wind out on the Camass...

Dave



On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 1:48 PM, tony williams <tonyswilliams@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Steve just replied that he is out in the canyon area near the little camas
> res and it is windy so I guess it is on.
> Will be at albertsons at 2:15,
> Cheers
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Steve Linane <stevelinane@...>
> To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 10:17:32 AM
> Subject: [snowkiteidaho] Friday
>
>
>
>
>
> 10:00 am boise sse 20 g 28 Mt.H . ese 28 g 35 pine turn off ene 1.  I'm
> headed to Slackers 713-7197.
>
>
>  ________________________________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
>



--
   o
<|v
  / >

   o
<|}\
  / >

   O
<@>
   / \

----- Original Message -----

From: Dave

To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 4:05 PM

Subject: Re: [snowkiteidaho] IT is on.

Russ and I coincidentally hooked up out at slackers.
Snow is acceptable, it was 50degrees.
The wind was OK for 30 minutes but then died off....
I hope you guys had some good wind out on the Camass...

Dave

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 1:48 PM, tony williams <tonyswilliams@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Steve just replied that he is out in the canyon area near the little camas
> res and it is windy so I guess it is on.
> Will be at albertsons at 2:15,
> Cheers
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Steve Linane <stevelinane@clearwire.net>
> To: snowkiteidaho@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 10:17:32 AM
> Subject: [snowkiteidaho] Friday
>
>
>
>
>
> 10:00 am boise sse 20 g 28 Mt.H . ese 28 g 35 pine turn off ene 1. I'm
> headed to Slackers 713-7197.
>
>
> ________________________________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
>

--
o
<|v
/ >

o
<|}\
/ >

O
<@>
/ \