On 23 Mar 2010, at 07:58, guus.assmann@... wrote:
> I've designed my own Smartsocket PCB's for the B7971.
> And made a mistake in the routing.
> Rather than design a new PCB, I also changed the code.
> Changes need to be made on 3 spots if memory serves right.
> I don't have my revised code at hand right now, but can look it up.
>
> BR/
> Guus
>

I am sure that would be very very helpful Guus.

John S

--- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, Quixotic Nixotic <nixotic1@...> wrote:
>
> On 22 Mar 2010, at 21:30, fixitsan2 wrote:
> > Good effort John.
> >
> It'd be better if it actually worked. Simon has loaded the new code
> and says there is no difference to the characters. Are you doing
> something to address the ports directly? Maybe the port vars are only
> used in fade routines or something?

I think you are on the right track there John. I did some more testing, when I
send $B7M1 to the PIC, the digit 1 is displayed, $B7M9 - digit 9 etc. When I
change the effect to effect 4 or higher, the effect and the character left after
the effect is jumbled up. Any other character sent after that is jumbled up. If
I then change the effect back to 0, 1, 2 or 3, the characters are back to been
legible.

So the port changes you did is having an effect (pardon the pun!) but only when
effects 4-9 are been used.

The setup I am using for that testing is a PIC loaded with the new  Smart LED
starburst.hex but wired for the old B7971 pinout.

Looking through the code, there looks like another area where ports/segments are
defined. Line 717 (of the Smart LED starburst.pbp) has these commands:

     btfsc   _OUTA2H,7        ;seg1
     bsf     _NEW_PORTA,0
     btfss   _OUTA2H,7
     bcf     _NEW_PORTA,0

Wondering if that is the area that relates to what we are experiencing? Does
this area need to be updated to the new port assignments as well?

> > I wonder how much variety exists between the pinouts of this type
> > of display.

Two lots of alphanumeric displays I have bought off ebay (different sellers)
have the same pinouts and physical dimensions as the LDS-F8004RI from Lumex
(datasheet is in the "Smart LED starburst"  files section). The Kingbright 0.8"
display (http://www.kingbrightusa.com/images/catalog/SPEC/PSC08-11EWA.pdf) has
the same dimensions and pinout, although they label the segments differently.

> > I'm feeling under pressure to update the B7971, ZM1350 and now the
> > LED versions to include the new commands and effects....where is
> > the time ?
> >
> I know, time is so precious. Stick with the IV 4 - IV 17 version for
> now.

I agree with John, just think about the IV-4 version for now.

By throwing the LED SS version out there for thoughts and feasibility from the
group a few weeks ago, I didn't mean to add extra pressure on you to to get the
LED SS to work with the others. I thought it would be a good/cheap way for
me/other people to start getting into smartsockets. Apologies for any undue
stress/pressure.

Simon

--- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, "shklaw75" <shklaw75@...> wrote:

>
>     btfsc   _OUTA2H,7        ;seg1
>     bsf     _NEW_PORTA,0
>     btfss   _OUTA2H,7
>     bcf     _NEW_PORTA,0
>
> Wondering if that is the area that relates to what we are experiencing? Does
this area need to be updated to the new port assignments as well?
>



Yes this is another area where pin assignments need to be changed. When I
created the original code I spent a few fun days coding effects transitions to
use up what was left of the memory. (Why waste it all on value 255 ?)

I wrote each transition effect individually, and although I tried to  keep pin
reassignments to a minimum by using literal names, in some places the only way
to get the effect I needed was to write to and read port pins directly, mainly
because I was short of ram at times, and partly because I wasn't sure how to
implement different effects with only a few combined routines.

The latest IV-4 SS uses a different idea. Based on the principle that almost all
of the effects I wanted to make involved setting/blanking/sequencing the
segments, I now use 3 main subroutines and the transition effect routine is
encoded as a series of 8 bit values in lookup tables. Each effect which sets and
clears segments (pattern playing) now only uses 128 bytes of memory. The values
in the table act as input to the subroutines which are behaving as sequence
players, and-ing and or-ing port pins and buffer values as required.

The main reason that this became essential for the IV-4 SS is that the
controller multiplexes 4 tubes. I have had to come up with a way
that each tube can have it's own effect, and can be at a different stage in the
transition effect at a different time to the other tubes. The only way to do
this was to create effect routines which can be jumped into and out of in
different ways for each tube, depending on how far into it's transition each has
progressed. In  this way, just like existing SS's, each tube can still have it's
own effect, speed, font etc

Anyway, enough of the sales pitch !



> > > I wonder how much variety exists between the pinouts of this type
> > > of display.
>
> Two lots of alphanumeric displays I have bought off ebay (different sellers)
have the same pinouts

I think that's great news !





>
> I agree with John, just think about the IV-4 version for now.
>
> By throwing the LED SS version out there for thoughts and feasibility from the
group a few weeks ago, I didn't mean to add extra pressure on you to to get the
LED SS to work with the others. I thought it would be a good/cheap way for
me/other people to start getting into smartsockets. Apologies for any undue
stress/pressure.
>
> Simon
>

No problem Simon. I am desperate to get this to a stage where I can release it.
At the moment the SD Card issues are holding me up, but then I could still get
the IV-4 version finished sooner if I drop
the SD Card for now and implement an I2C eeprom just for saving user variables.
The six tube device is almost certainly going to need the SD Card because it
would introduce so much scope, it could act as a message reader, it could even
display the contents of large text files, and so on. I suppose then at that
point the 4 tube version could be reassessed.

I'll put the brakes on the feature creep for now then, bring the I2C eeprom idea
into play and focus on completing what is here already

Chris

--- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, Quixotic Nixotic <nixotic1@...> wrote:
>

>
> Hopefully Melanie will soothe your furrowed brow, Chris.
>
> John S
>


I can see why the forums are so popular !

Hello,

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   File        : /,B7971/Ver2 B7971 Smart Socket/Modified B7971smart.asm
   Uploaded by : guusassmann2000 <guus.assmann@...>
   Description : modified file because of pin changes

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guusassmann2000 <guus.assmann@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the smartsockets
group.

   File        : /,B7971/Ver2 B7971 Smart Socket/Modified B7971smart.pbp.txt
   Uploaded by : guusassmann2000 <guus.assmann@...>
   Description : Modified because of pin changes, source file

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guusassmann2000 <guus.assmann@...>

Just now, I've uploaded two files.
I'm not sure if it's the latest version, but it does show where changes are
needed.
On my design, only 4 pins were changed.
The correct files are on a computer that I don't have available right now. If
the correct file is needed after all, please let me know.
If I remember correctly, changes are needed on 9 spots. These are some tables
and routines as well.

BR/
Guus

--- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, "Guus" <guus.assmann@...> wrote:
>
> Just now, I've uploaded two files.
> I'm not sure if it's the latest version, but it does show where changes are
needed.
> On my design, only 4 pins were changed.
> The correct files are on a computer that I don't have available right now. If
the correct file is needed after all, please let me know.
> If I remember correctly, changes are needed on 9 spots. These are some tables
and routines as well.
>
> BR/
> Guus
>

Thanks Guus for the code.
Doing a document compare between Guus's code and Chris's original code, I can
see where Guus has edited the code to change the seg/pin assignments.
The two areas of changes we have talked about so far, Guus has done, but another
area which needs changing is the code for effect 6 (bits). This effect also
addresses port pins directly.
Not understanding the code, but able to see the pattern for Guus's pin changes,
I have edited the code to (hopefully!) work with the new pin assignments for the
starburst LED's.

I have uploaded the edited code to Files > Smart LED starburst\Smart LED
starburst v1.1.pbp
If someone one could compile the code to a hex file, I can test it out and
hopefully we will have a working starburst LED smartsocket!

I have also uploaded some pics of the sockets I have made up.

Cheers.
Simon

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
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group.

   File        : /Smart LED starburst/Smart LED starburst v1-1.hex
   Uploaded by : fixitsan2 <fixitsan@...>
   Description :

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fixitsan2 <fixitsan@...>

On 28 Mar 2010, at 12:35, shklaw75 wrote:

> I have uploaded the edited code to Files > Smart LED starburst
> \Smart LED starburst v1.1.pbp
> If someone one could compile the code to a hex file, I can test it
> out and hopefully we will have a working starburst LED smartsocket!
>
OK that's done for you Simon. Uploaded. PBP doesn't like double dot
extensions, so it's been renamed Smart LED starburst v1_1.hex.

The displays look good.

I have some starburst displays, but they are common anode and have a
different pinout. They are specials made for PINLED, the pinball LED
display company, http://www.pinled.de/. The segments match the
burroughs tubes though, ie they don't have a double segment top and
bottom.

John S

--- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, Quixotic Nixotic <nixotic1@...> wrote:

> OK that's done for you Simon. Uploaded. PBP doesn't like double dot
> extensions, so it's been renamed Smart LED starburst v1_1.hex.
>

Lol, I wondered if we were going to duplicate the work. I also did a version
called ....v1-1.pbp .At least we know yahoogroups are working !

Chris

--- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, "fixitsan2" <fixitsan@...> wrote:
>
> --- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, Quixotic Nixotic <nixotic1@> wrote:
>
> > OK that's done for you Simon. Uploaded. PBP doesn't like double dot
> > extensions, so it's been renamed Smart LED starburst v1_1.hex.
> >
> Lol, I wondered if we were going to duplicate the work. I also did a version
called ....v1-1.pbp .At least we know yahoogroups are working !
>
> Chris
>

Thanks guys for compiling the code. All works!
Just been testing it by sending the commands manually through hyperterminal, but
its a lot easier through John Taylor's SmartSocket serial controller in his
calculators and utilities program.

I will update the eagle files as they have a couple of mistakes in them.

Now to think of some interesting stuff to sent to them from the PC.....

Many thanks.
Simon

--- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, "shklaw75" <shklaw75@...> wrote:

> Now to think of some interesting stuff to sent to them from the PC.....
>
> Many thanks.
> Simon
>


I support the idea that we should keep working towards making 'The internet of
things' a reality and we should start hooking more things up to the internet.
The great thing here is because we are dealing with slow rates and low volumes
of data, sending files and messages via the TFTP protocal would be easy to
implement because TFTP doesn't need a huge stack.

Chris
Zach Shelby's blog http://zachshelby.org/ for Internet of Things and the
relevance to 6LowPan technology

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the smartsockets
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   File        : /IV-17 Smartsocket/UserManual.doc
   Uploaded by : fixitsan2 <fixitsan@...>
   Description : WIP IV-17 Smartsocket manual

You can access this file at the URL:
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fixitsan2 <fixitsan@...>

I've had the time to do some more work, and this is where I am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeQWgSccD6Q

The date and time number fonts are programmable, the pendulum can be switched
off or left on, and the word ladder function has been implemented.
You can program the word ladder function to select words with 1,2,3 or 4 new
letters, and in this video the additional program 'random' is running. Sometimes
1 letter changes, other times 3 letters change, and so on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeQWgSccD6Q

Happy holidays !
Chris

--- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, Quixotic Nixotic <nixotic1@...> wrote:
>
>
> On 2 Apr 2010, at 14:58, fixitsan2 wrote:
>
> > I've had the time to do some more work, and this is where I am
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeQWgSccD6Q
> >
> > The date and time number fonts are programmable, the pendulum can
> > be switched off or left on, and the word ladder function has been
> > implemented.
> > You can program the word ladder function to select words with 1,2,3
> > or 4 new letters, and in this video the additional program 'random'
> > is running. Sometimes 1 letter changes, other times 3 letters
> > change, and so on.
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeQWgSccD6Q
> >
> > Happy holidays !
> > Chris
> >
>
> Looks as if you are coming to the end of a long hard road Chris. Well
> done. Looking very good. I like the Knightrider effect on the decimal
> points.
>
> Have a good Easter,
>
> John S
>



Hi John,
I'm unhappy with the current effects, which seem too quick. I really want to
work on some effects which add a bit of intrigue and antticipation about which
word is coming next.

On 2 Apr 2010, at 19:54, fixitsan2 wrote:
> I'm unhappy with the current effects, which seem too quick. I
> really want to work on some effects which add a bit of intrigue and
> antticipation about which word is coming next.
>

Heck yeah. Make it a real anus-clencher if you can. We don't want
none of this pussy bovine excreta, as our transatlantic friends might
put it. Mind you Chris, between you and me, I don't have a clue what
they are talking about half the time. I think it's jive talk, but I'm
not sure.

John S

--- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, Quixotic Nixotic <nixotic1@...> wrote:
>Mind you Chris, between you and me, I don't have a clue what
> they are talking about half the time. I think it's jive talk, but I'm
> not sure.
>
> John S


Well they've got the BeeGees to thank for that !

>
> Well they've got the BeeGees to thank for that !

A BeeGees smartsocket display without sound would be nice! ;-)

Sture

Hey group,

I have updated the readme and eagle files for the the LED starburst
smartsockets, there were a couple of wiring errors in my first version!
I have also uploaded a couple more pics of a 4 display board to help see how it
is made up.

Chris/John - there are older version files in the directory, can you please
delete the following files so there is just the current v1_1 files, less
confusion for which ones to use! Thanks.

16 segment LED smartsocket2.brd
16 segment LED smartsocket2.sch
Read Me.txt
Smart LED starburst v1-1.hex
Smart LED starburst v1.hex
Smart LED starburst.hex
Smart LED starburst.pbp

Thanks for everyone's help getting these working, they look great!

Simon

On 17 Apr 2010, at 10:35, shklaw75 wrote:

> Hey group,
>
> I have updated the readme and eagle files for the the LED starburst
> smartsockets, there were a couple of wiring errors in my first
> version!
> I have also uploaded a couple more pics of a 4 display board to
> help see how it is made up.
>
> Chris/John - there are older version files in the directory, can
> you please delete the following files so there is just the current
> v1_1 files, less confusion for which ones to use! Thanks.
>
OK I deleted all the files I could. Chris, can you delete the one
below please?
> Smart LED starburst v1-1.hex
>

I shall have to try these displays out... thanks Simon for your good
work,

John

Chris, can you delete the one
> below please?
> > Smart LED starburst v1-1.hex

It has gone !

Well done Simon.

On a slightly different note, does anyone have any idea how to implement word
association algorithms ?
EG, if the association were called 'fetish' then words such as lick,suck,sexy
etc all belong to a group.
But then if the association is 'food', then lick obviously needs to belong to
that one too.
Before I start creating arrays of arrays I wondered if there was someone here
with any previous experience of multiple group memberships (single to many ?),
and how best to structure such data ?

Chris

Hi all,

I can't recall if I've posted before, but I've been around the group for quite
some time now.  I recently (finally!) started building my SmartSocket boards for
my B7971 tubes!  As a result, I have some questions.

My first question concerns tube protection.  I have noticed that if +170V is
being used, no anode resistor is present.  Is there any concern, should the
+170V supply become unstable of the tube being damaged?  Any sort of protection
that should be employed here?

I've also gotten to the point where I need to install pins for the tubes.  Those
little pins are quite expensive!  I do have original sockets from the tubes, but
I'm not sure which route is the best.  Are the pins generally used solely
because sockets are even harder to find than tubes, or is there something
superior about the pins over the old sockets?

Here and other places that discuss Nixies have a load of neat little power
supplies, however the generally can't power more than a few tubes.  Are there
any supplies out there that can source sufficient current to run a string of
tubes, or is this an area that needs some innovation? :)

Finally, I'm interested in building the FLW clock driver board listed as "John's
Clock" in the files section.  Not wanting to step on any toes, but has anyone
ever done a board layout for this clock?  My thoughts would be a board with a HV
supply for four tubes and the clock circuitry, or at least a board for the clock
itself.  I have some layout experience if there isn't any objection from the
owner.  I could even look into having some boards run if there would be other
interest.

Thanks for any input or comments you can offer - I'm excited to bring my tubes
to life soon!

Regards,
Chris

--- In smartsockets@yahoogroups.com, "n9wiv" <zap@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>

>
> My first question concerns tube protection.  I have noticed that if +170V is
being used, no anode resistor is present.  Is there any concern, should the
+170V supply become unstable of the tube being damaged?  Any sort of protection
that should be employed here?

Hi Chris, each cathode has it's own resitor which is an equally viable way to
protect the cathodes. Normally in a nixie tube only one cathode is lit at a time
and therefore only one resistor is required, usually fitted to the anode for
convenience. In some tubes the surface area of each cathode is quite different,
and the digit 8 may appear to be more dim than a digit 1 when one common
resistor is used.
With the smartsockets each cathode has it's own resistor, calculated to suit
based on the surface area of each cathode. As long as the current is limited it
doesn't matter if it is limi9ted at the anode or the cathode, but yoiu can
probably see that fitting an anode resitor to protect all cathodes in a
multisegment tube will mean each segment gets a different share of the current.
Often in such circumstances it can be difficult to get all segments to light
because the first segments to light end up taking most of the current and the
voltage drops below the striking voltage of an individual cathode.

Individual cathode resistors are the 'belt and braces' solution

>
> I've also gotten to the point where I need to install pins for the tubes. 
Those little pins are quite expensive!  I do have original sockets from the
tubes, but I'm not sure which route is the best.  Are the pins generally used
solely because sockets are even harder to find than tubes, or is there something
superior about the pins over the old sockets?


I would use sockets if I had them and if there was no issue regarding the
additional height created when traditional sockets are used. I think a few
people have been reasonably succesfull by using D-Sub connector pins, which are
much cheaper than millmax pins. As long as the contact is good and reliable and
will stand the test of time that is all yoiiu need.



>
> Here and other places that discuss Nixies have a load of neat little power
supplies, however the generally can't power more than a few tubes.  Are there
any supplies out there that can source sufficient current to run a string of
tubes, or is this an area that needs some innovation? :)


I use back to back transformers for isolation from the mains. I believe you can
buy switchmode supplies which are good enough, maybe someone who has used them
could suggest one here ?


Keep us posted !
Chris

> My first question concerns tube protection.  I have noticed that if +170V is
being used, no anode resistor is present.  Is there any concern, should the
+170V supply become unstable of the tube being damaged?  Any sort of protection
that should be employed here?

A nixie that operates as a 1-of-10 display such as an IN-18 only needs a single
anode resistor to limit the current after break over as only one character at a
time will be powered.

Since the B7971 is a multi-segment display, each cathode gets a limiting
resistor with the anode voltage held constant.  This allows each segment to get
a current proportional to its size to balance the brightness across the 14
segments.

jt

These pins are $0.166 (1K) each at Digikey:
http://www.tayloredge.com/reference/Electronics/Displays/nixies/0327-0_Millmax.p\
df

These pins are $0.182 (1K) each at Farnell:
http://www.tayloredge.com/reference/Electronics/Displays/nixies/H3161-01_Harwin.\
PDF

Is there anyone in the UK (preferably, for the sake of postage) who would be
interested in beta testing an IV-17 smartsocket ?
You would need to build a display of 4 IV-17's wired in parallel, which would be
driven by an HV5812 or A6812 vfd driver chip, which you source for yourself.

I can provide the programmed controller IC, a pic18F26j50 (or J11) and full
schematic. I'm only looking for general feedback and positive encouragement at
this time.

Andrew Jardine, if you're reading, I responded to your email which had fallen
into my spam folder somehow. Hopefully my reply didn't fall into yours !

Chris

On 5 May 2010, at 15:47, fixitsan2 wrote:

> Is there anyone in the UK (preferably, for the sake of postage) who
> would be interested in beta testing an IV-17 smartsocket ?
> You would need to build a display of 4 IV-17's wired in parallel,
> which would be driven by an HV5812 or A6812 vfd driver chip, which
> you source for yourself.
>
> I can provide the programmed controller IC, a pic18F26j50 (or J11)
> and full schematic. I'm only looking for general feedback and
> positive encouragement at this time.
>
> Andrew Jardine, if you're reading, I responded to your email which
> had fallen into my spam folder somehow. Hopefully my reply didn't
> fall into yours !
>
> Chris
>

Hi Chris, yes I am up for the task. I have some spare drivers kicking
around somewhere I think. I have three pic18F26j50 I can send you,
advise your present address please. Or send me the code and I will burn.

I am in contact with Andrew Jardine and know he is keen on firing up
some VFDs.

Consider yourself given some positive encouragement Chris,

John

Hey Group,

With some help from a programming friend, we have put together a little windows
app that will let you send RSS feeds from the internet to the smartsockets. It
grabs the title from the feed and sends it to the smartsockets. It also shows a
progress of the amount of feeds that have been sent, the current item that is
been sent and also a  simulated display of what is currently on the
smartsockets.

It was written in Visual Basic 2008 Express, so i think you need to have .NET
3.5 (free from Microsoft) installed on your machine.

Usage
- select the COM port the smartsockets are connected to
- enter the number of smartsockets you have connected
- choose the effect and speed (i find effect 0 or effect 1 with speed 1 are all
that is readable with a scrolling speed of 500ms)
- type/paste an URL of a feed into the RSS to Display text box (there is a
default one there from feeds.news.com.au)
- click on send

The Simple Text Display tab allows you to send a scrolling message to the
smartsockets.

There are a couple of (known!) things that don't work in this version:
- no ATOM support (eg. Google's Blogger pages)
- non standard characters don't get displayed (?@=+<> etc, the ones which
are/can be set in the UDC's). What happens is that the previous character is
displayed instead.

I have tested with the LED starburst smartsockets i have previously built. The
program has been run on Windows 7 and XP on a few different machines, can't say
whether it will work on other versions of Windows.

The program is in the Text to Smartsockets directory under files.

Welcome any feedback/comments/problems people have about/with the program.

Cheers.
Simon