I've recently joined this list, and I just wanted to
say that all this history that I had no clue of is
_so_ very cool!

Tracy


=====

IN 2004 - JUNE 4-6th - COMING TO CHARLOTTE - (drum roll,
please,)http://www.secfi.org/concarolinas

for good webcomics, use these links!
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On another thread I wrote, "a whole history" that I
didn't know of; what I should have said was something
like, "a lot of history and mythology", since the
topic being discussed was questionable as history.
Sorry; hope I didn't annoy anyone!

Tracy

=====

IN 2004 - JUNE 4-6th - COMING TO CHARLOTTE - (drum roll,
please,)http://www.secfi.org/concarolinas

for good webcomics, use these links!
http://sluggy.com   http://www.schlockmercenary.com  
http://www.kevinandkell.com




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You know, Tracy, I feel the same way about this history.  Don't tell
anyone but the only "D" I every got in High School was in History, when
it was the dullest, driest, memorize-the-date class I ever hated.
Now I can actually remember that the English "hundred years war" was
sometime in the 1400s because that was when the Poulane (reputed to be
Polish fashion) pointed toe shoe was in fashion and the French knights
in armor couldn't walk in them when they were dismounted on the muddy
battlefield.
Who'd ever have known how interesting and relevant history really is?!

Welcome to the most interesting and informative list in or out of the
"known world"!
Maria P

.......................
On another thread I wrote, "a whole history" that I
didn't know of; what I should have said was something
like, "a lot of history and mythology", since the
topic being discussed was questionable as history.
Sorry; hope I didn't annoy anyone!

Tracy

=====

Vsem--

The winds of trade (well, okay, the odd, rather fickle whims of a
certain Uncle Samuel of mine) appear to be taking me in a week and a
half or so to the lovely town of Budapest, Hungary, for a nearly two-
week stay. Having never been there, does anyone have any
recommendations for particular museums/sites to visit, or requests
for things to be photographed/sought out?

My itinerary has me departing from Budapest and going directly to
Tbilisi, Georgia (again), where I will remain until the end of May,
so while reports of my travels will most likely be forthcoming,
photos and such probably will have to wait until early June.

(I *love* looking at the history of European cities--eastern European
ones, in particular--and seeing "in 1996, the city celebrated its
1100th anniversary...")

Tingling with excitement for this trip,
--Mikhail Novgorodets

In a message dated 3/10/2004 09:39:40 Central Standard Time, "P&MSulisz"
pmsulisz@... writes:

>Of szczecin = ze Szczecina, of Szczytno= ze Szczytna, of Wroclaw= >z
Wroclawia.


Okay, so what's the rule on z/ze?  Leszek ze Szczecina would be correct for
Leszek of (from) Szczecin?



>>I was a little concerned about the forbidden name thing, but thought
>>Leszek might be from minor Piast Kin who moved into Pomerania after >>conquest
and
intermarried with the locals.
>You have to take into consideration two things:
>Poland was a tribal society. The main unit of its organization was a family
>(rod) in rather wide sense.  The family was everything - its members only
>serves the glory of the family. (In some way it is similiar to the present
>situation :( only the definition of the family has >changed).

A lot of family pressure in Modern Poland?
>If he is of Piast family Leszek seems to be a kind of a >fugitive.  One >of
the most severe punishment in old P.  was to be >take out of the >Law - Leszek
seems to be such a person.
Seems like there would have to be some dynastic marriages in the
establishment of Polish authority in Pomerania.  For instance, Swietopelk,
(ruler part of
Pomerania in the early 12th C) is referenced as a 'distant cousin of the
Piasts,' and Mieszko Stary (the Old) had 3 daughters and one son married to
Pomeranians.

But your points, particularly the Merchant thing are very good.  I always
thought of Leszek as a sort of 'Black Sheep,' but don't want him to be a total
outlaw,  hmm . . . do you suppose raiding enemy shipping and coastal towns would
be a more appropriate ocupation?  Poland was always at war with someone, so
the work would be steady  :)  I may have to revise Pan Leszek before I get
active in the Society again . . . on the other hand, real Pomeranian names are
even stranger (for Americans) than Polish names  :)


>But in those times he had the power to  protect his wealth. There was a lot
>of rich people (esspecially Jews, and other merchands) who hadn.t  enough
>wide backs. They were killed very quick - ussual explanation was: they were
>spies...

One of the advantages of being a transporter, as opposed to mere dealer, is
that the continuous connection is often worth more to one's clients than any
one cargo.  Harbors that loot shippers soon become ghost towns.  My
understanding was that Polish trade was quite extensive, and they had a merchant
law
called the  'Mir Targowy.'  Connection to the local nobility never hurts either.
While many traders were robbed, many also prospered.  No risk, no reward.
Likewise, it is my understanding that one of the reasons Poland has had such a
large Jewish population was that the Poles were much less fond of robbing and
murdering them, and were even scolded by the Pope for giving Jews too much
freedom.


>> Love to do both, but haven't the re$ources.
>Maybe you could use the USarmy as a travel office. I heard That >Nato had
>chosen Szczecin to be one of its minor centers of >commandment... ;)

I'm not in the Military.  My translator was, but our association was
civillian.

As always, thank you for you comments and corrections.
- Steve Butler


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I very much Luv'd the pusta and the horse camps... they are amazin Horsemen
and animal trainers....



Thank you for your help,
Sgt A'kos of Roaring Wastes called "Braile" ODT, ORC
Squire to Duke Sir Ragnvaldr
Midrealm, Pentamere
Unbelted Champion of Midrealm
Member House Darkyard

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> >Of szczecin = ze Szczecina, of Szczytno= ze Szczytna, of Wroclaw= >z
> Wroclawia.
>
>
> Okay, so what's the rule on z/ze?

In few words: It depends on the last vovel of the main word. If it needs
(for comfortable prounce) '-ia' ending one uses only 'z' like 'z
Wroclaw-ia'. If one adds only '-a' you will use 'ze' like 'ze Szczecina'.

> Leszek ze Szczecina would be correct for
> Leszek of (from) Szczecin?

Leszek of (from) Szczecin is correct in English. In Polish the proper form
is: Leszek ze Szczecina.

> A lot of family pressure in Modern Poland?
I use here the word 'family' in the term of 'the group of the influence' (or
authority or power).
Recently I read the article in the western/German newspaper (Neue Zurcher
Zeitung) about the position of the woman in modern Poland. It caused my eyes
to be verrrrry big and round: misunderstanding of the social condition in
Poland was so enourmous...



> Seems like there would have to be some dynastic marriages in the
> establishment of Polish authority in Pomerania.
Of course. There was always a number of princesses to be given to neighbour
rulers. Check the genealogy tables.



> But your points, particularly the Merchant thing are very good.  I always
> thought of Leszek as a sort of 'Black Sheep,' but don't want him to be a
total
> outlaw,  hmm . . . do you suppose raiding enemy shipping and coastal towns
would
> be a more appropriate ocupation?
In the light of medieval Polish chronicles (in XII/XIII centuries) it would
be even honourable occupation... It seems to be a constant way of filling
the always empty duke's cases. I this way Leszek could earn the real (?)
friendship and favour of a local duke (maybe a good wife - heiress)?

real Pomeranian names are
> even stranger (for Americans) than Polish names  :)
We use here general term 'Pomeranians' but what do you mean by it?
There were at least few tribes...

My
> understanding was that Polish trade was quite extensive, and they had a
merchant law
> called the  'Mir Targowy.'
Yes, it was in the theory (especially in XIII c.). Mir targowy (peace of the
trade) & mir drogowy (peace of the road).  It is true that the violation of
them was punished 'by throat' (id est: by killing the violator). We have a
long traditions of the robber-knights (so called by German name
raubritters), domestical wars, noble robbers etc. In the times of the weak
central authority the roads weren't safe places.


> Likewise, it is my understanding that one of the reasons Poland has had
such a
> large Jewish population was that the Poles were much less fond of robbing
and
> murdering them, and were even scolded by the Pope for giving Jews too much
> freedom.
Good point!
This is because of the  'special' kind of the polish christianity. If ones
beliefs are rather superficial one is much less fond of burning stakes for
the heretics. Polish people were very pragmatic (for the most of their
history). I personally think we lost this commonn sense after strong
catholic indoctorination in the contr-reformation era (XVII-XVIII). And the
tragedy was an emerging - in XIXc. - of this false  formula: "the only true
Pole is Catholic".
Greetings,

Magdalena z Wroclawia
(Magdalena Gruna-Sulisz)

Hi folks!

  my interest in Slavic culture stemmed initially from
an ancestral name, Tymczyszyn.  I was told that the
grandfather bearing that name came from Poland, from a
town that no longer exists since WWII leveled it, and
his relatives wrote letters to him in a polyglot of
German, Polish, and Russian. Yet the records show him
as being born in Ukrania, and his first name was
Nicholas, and his father's was Basil; those names seem
to be Russian (?).  (Perhaps they had the itchy feet I
seem to have inherited! <G>)  The other patronymics I
could research are Zgonce, Zedik, Szupianyj, Mazuryk,
and Szurpeta - the first two may be Yugoslavian,
though they spoke Polish, the rest are unknown.

  I would like to find out where to look for this name
to find out how far back it existed, and whether it
was regional, or might have been more common for a
region, or profession, etc., so I can get some ideas
for a eastern european SCA persona. I like to use
ancestry as a starting point. (If not, I of course
don't have to use an ancestral name, but this gives me
somewhere to start and is of personal interest as
well.)

So, if anyone could suggest links where I can look for
this kind of information (I already looked in the SIG
site's bibliography, and will be looking for Hoffman's
book), which must unfortunately be in english, or has
any information on hand, or knows of a specific book I
could start looking for thru interlibrary loan or for
sale on the internet, I would be grateful!

Tracy


=====

IN 2004 - JUNE 4-6th - COMING TO CHARLOTTE - (drum roll,
please,)http://www.secfi.org/concarolinas

for good webcomics, use these links!
http://sluggy.com   http://www.schlockmercenary.com  
http://www.kevinandkell.com




__________________________________
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Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com

If you hear anything of the history of the Bashalde Romani of Hungary, please
pass it along.  The Bashalde are almost completely assimilated into the
Hungarian culture now, through oppression and what have you.  For my persona I
am looking more into their fifteenth century cultural dress and customs to see
how they differ from Romanichal Romani, (my family background.)  If you run into
anything about the culture, I would love to hear about it!  -Karen

________________________________

From: Michael Suggs [mailto:chayka@...]
Sent: Wed 3/10/2004 12:32 PM
To: sig@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sig] Travels...



Vsem--

The winds of trade (well, okay, the odd, rather fickle whims of a
certain Uncle Samuel of mine) appear to be taking me in a week and a
half or so to the lovely town of Budapest, Hungary, for a nearly two-
week stay. Having never been there, does anyone have any
recommendations for particular museums/sites to visit, or requests
for things to be photographed/sought out?

My itinerary has me departing from Budapest and going directly to
Tbilisi, Georgia (again), where I will remain until the end of May,
so while reports of my travels will most likely be forthcoming,
photos and such probably will have to wait until early June.

(I *love* looking at the history of European cities--eastern European
ones, in particular--and seeing "in 1996, the city celebrated its
1100th anniversary...")

Tingling with excitement for this trip,
--Mikhail Novgorodets





Yahoo! Groups Links









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The special promotion of the series of books on coin finds in Armenia
(Antiquity, Greek, Roman, Sasanian, Byzatine, islamic, etc., coins) will
end at the end of March.
In April, the books will be sold at the normal prices.

The last volume was the publication of the hoard of FRANCESTI, 1369
denarii. The publication is illustrated by 24 plates and more than 800
coins illustrated.

See Moneta <http://www.cultura-net.com/moneta/content.htm>

---------------------------------------------------------------
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fax + 33 1 49 54 23 99

April 2004: Special promotion on the Armenian series.
Moneta: http://www.cultura-net.com/moneta/content.htm
Roumanie:  http://users.pcnet.ro/coin/page4.html

--- P&MSulisz <pmsulisz@...> wrote:
> Recently I read the article in the western/German
> newspaper (Neue Zurcher
> Zeitung) about the position of the woman in modern
> Poland. It caused my eyes
> to be verrrrry big and round: misunderstanding of
> the social condition in Poland was so enourmous...

If I may ask, what was their misunderstanding?  I know
that the few Polish women, living in Poland, that I
have met with and talked to are working women, even
when married and with a child, and seemed quite
comfortable with that.  It seems to me that in a land
that (correct me if I'm wrong in any respect) has
never been very rich, this must have been true even in
historic times...

Eluned/Tracy


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Hello Tracy,
The subject is wide. I'm not sure I can explain it in a few words, so please
excuse me some simplifications and general conclusions.


> If I may ask, what was their misunderstanding?
The author states that it was the communists regime who liberated women
enabling them to work. It is simply not true. They forced women to work, to
abandon their children and houses, to left them no choice. Weak families are
much easier to indocorinate.
The jurnalist wites also that this situation added to traditional polish
streotype of "Mother Pole" made the situation of women in Poland very
special in Europe. This - in order - leads polish women to play the eminent
role in the new UE.
Really?????
They are ('en masse' of course. I  don't want to write about the examples)to
tired to take care of anything else than theirs own life.
Let me for some  examples:
There is no real legal regulations against sex discrimination in Poland.
Some woman (PM) tried to discussed it in the Parliament for more than few
times - the only result was the mocking laugh of the male part of the
Parliament. Usually our politicians says: "We  kiss your hand - what do you
want more?"

> I know that the few Polish women, living in Poland, that I
> have met with and talked to are working women, even
> when married and with a child, and seemed quite
> comfortable with that.

They have to be. Most of the Polish woman simply have no choice. The mix of
communist ideology (of work, family, etc.) and old stereotype of the "Mather
Pole" had given the nasty mixture enforcing everything the worse in the old
conviction.
In short: man is vocated to so called 'higher things' like wars, authority,
high education, etc. Woman's occupation is all the rest (everything which
will dishonour the male).  This is the woman who is responsilble for the
family, its incomes, accomodation, nourishment. When her husband beats her,
rapes childres (etc.) she is thrown out of their common flat (hause, etc.
property) - in the name of the common practice. It is hers blame. The law
protects the violator (sic!). It is also a popular picture: she works 12-14
houres + housework + children : he looks for work or drinks...
It is obvious that female worker earns half of the salary of hers male
counterpart. More examples...

Have you ever heard about "the sticky floor" and "a glass ceiling"?
Please guess: who are bosses in the most feminized professions?

Than the next very fresh example of something  absolutely nasty  and
shamefull but true and very common:
There was a case in one law court (in Dabrowa Gornicza). Young lady
(professional translator) sued hers superior (major of the city) of sexual
abuse. She had obvious proofs (tapes) and witneses. Among all the nasty
things this guy did to her was catching by a croach (You know: insteed of
shaking the hands he simply ....) . He did it few times and in public.  For
fun of his male fellows. And what was the court verdict? Innocent. The judge
(female!!!) motivate it that his bahaviour is well grounded in the national
tradition (?????!!!!!).
There was a quiet storm in some magazines - and everything fadeed.The point
is she is young, has no husband, no influential father, no big money, no men
to protect her = she is nothing. She was stupid believed in western ideas
(equality, personal intangiblness, etc.) not knowing that here IS Poland.
Do you want more examples? Some are from my closest friends experience.

>It seems to me that in a land
> that (correct me if I'm wrong in any respect) has
> never been very rich,
For some period in historic times Poland was very rich. One of the richest
in Europe. In those times (around 1550) one brave girl dared to studied and
finished the Cracow Academy. Her name was  Nawojka (Navojka) She had to
pretended a men - of course... There were some eminnent examples. The
situation of the nobles were different than commoners., etc.
At the same time in the maunal of courtly living one well educated men
(Lukasz Gornicki) wrote that (I quote from my head) ' "Italian women are edu
cated and because of it suitable for love adventure for young Polish nobles.
Polish girls are not taught so carefully so their simplicity make them good
wives."
Any strong queen was by the rule hated by a people. It was a specific polish
custom that the queen couldn't walk side by side by hers royal hausband, but
follow few  steps behind...
The only real queen of Poland was (from the XVIIc.) the Mother of God. But
it is impossible for the real woman to be a virgin and a mother at the same
time... None could reach the ideal:(

I'm not sure I managed to answer your question enaugh clearly...
Do you have any more questions? I'd be pleasure to aswer them.

Magdalena z Wroclawia

Hello!

>    Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:32:07 -0000
>    From: "Michael Suggs" <chayka@...>
> Subject: Travels...
>
> Vsem--
>
> The winds of trade (well, okay, the odd, rather
> fickle whims of a
> certain Uncle Samuel of mine) appear to be taking me
> in a week and a
> half or so to the lovely town of Budapest, Hungary,
> for a nearly two-
> week stay. Having never been there, does anyone have
> any
> recommendations for particular museums/sites to
> visit, or requests
> for things to be photographed/sought out?

You lucky dog!

There are a lot of good things to see and do in
Budapest.

1.  DON'T GO to the War Museum on Castle Hill.  It's a
waste of time.

2.  Visit Castle Hill.  See the cathedral, the castle,
the statue of St. Stephen, and Fisherman's Bastion.

3.  Go to Heroes Square.  A huge monument built to
commemorate the 1000th anniversary of the Settlement,
it has statues of all the great leaders of Hungarian
History.  Behind it is a park with a castle that
represents all the castles of Hungary.

4.  Visit the National Museum.  One of the best things
to see in Hungary and very cheap.  The book store is
stupendous -- I had a hard time carrying my stuff home
from there.

5.  The best-kept secret (if it's still there) is on
Castle Hill and there are no signs.  Near the statue
of St. Stephen there is a tower with a door in it.
Enter the door and go down the steps.  At the bottom
there is a huge dungeon-style room with a great
calligraphy shop.  There is stuff in Hungarian and
English, and in Rovas.  Very nice work and very cheap.

6.  If you have a little free time, go to St.
Margaret's convent on St. Margaret's Island.  Not much
to see, but historically significant.

I don't need anything -- I hope to go there myself
when I get back from Chaldea.

Have fun!

Janos

=====
JEFFREY C. SMITH

"Expecting the world to treat you fairly because you are a good person is like
expecting the bull not to charge you because you are a vegetarian."  -- Dennis
Wholey

Greetings All,
	 I'm looking for any and all information on the construction of
wooden chests and boxes from 12th century Novgorod, particularly the
hinges, hasps, etc that would have been used. Web resources, direct
information, book recommendations, all would be appreciated!

-Kean

Hi all!!
I will be in Decatur, IL for a little while; Uncle Sam says 90 days, but my
last 60 day post was 4 months!!!  Any one either local or close that I can
meet up with?? If possible, I would like to visit Chicago Thrift stores and
book stores...etc...
Any advice??? Thanks all!!
Please excuse me if I dont reply quickly.  I dont know what my access will
be like!! You can email me privately!!
Judwiga

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I'm in Champaign-Urbana, about 45 miles away, and always happy to see
people!  And visit Chicago.

--Yana


>I will be in Decatur, IL for a little while; Uncle Sam says 90 days, but my
>last 60 day post was 4 months!!!  Any one either local or close that I can
>meet up with?? If possible, I would like to visit Chicago Thrift stores and
>book stores...etc...

Hello!

I just got a new book and there's a word that puzzles me (well lots of them
as my Russian is awful).   The word is solonitsa.  The object in question is
12th c, and about 7 cm high.  The word in my dictionary is for salt cellar is
solonka.  Would solonitsa be a small salt cellar or am I just way off base here?

Thanks
Vasilisa Myshkina
Glymm Mere, An Tir


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This was on the Rh Hael list, but since she mentioned
the Magyar, I thought it might sig-nify;

Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:01:26 -0000
    From: "Cara Ewell Hodkin" <caraewell@...>
Subject: Period puppies

I'm hoping this is list-appropriate...

Period dog lovers!  We are expecting (what looks to be
a rather
large) litter of VIZSLA puppies in early April.  It's
a period
breed!  To quote my coffee cup:  "Known also as the
Hungarian
Pointer, the Vizsla's ancestors were both hunters and
companions to
the Magyar hordes which inhabited Central Europe over
a thousand
years ago."  That makes 600 years of period goodness!

Last year's king and queen have one...

    Cecily

Eluned




=====

IN 2004 - JUNE 4-6th - COMING TO CHARLOTTE - (drum roll,
please,)http://www.secfi.org/concarolinas

for good webcomics, use these links!
http://sluggy.com   http://www.schlockmercenary.com  
http://www.kevinandkell.com




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Folks, I answered this offlist simply because it is
off-topic, which some might object to, and not for any
other reason.

Eluned

--- Judwiga Czarna Pika <JudwigaCaidI@...>
wrote:
>If possible, I would like to visit
> Chicago Thrift stores and book stores...etc...
> Any advice??? Thanks all!!

yes; don't forget the Chicago Museums, etc!  The city
is as blessed in that respect as in bookstores!

Eluned

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>  I would like to find out where to look for this name
> to find out how far back it existed, and whether it
> was regional, or might have been more common for a
> region, or profession, etc.,

Tracy--

You might want to start with Kazimierz Rymut's Dictionary of Surnames
in  Current Use in Poland at the Beginning of the 21st Century, it
listed 637 Tymczyszyn's in Poland as of 1990 located in a number of
different powiats (e.g.s administrative districts). You can find a
link to it on the Polish Genealogical Society website, www.pgsa.org,
look in the databases section.

Also check out the Polish surames section of the website as there are
resources there that might help you. For example, there is an address
for a Polish institute that will research the history of a name to
tell you its origin for a nominal fee (usually about $20). This group
understands and will reply in English.

If you know the town name in Poland where your ancestor resided, you
can probably find out more about it in the Slownik Geograficzyny
Krolestwa Polskiego, a geographical dictionary that describes towns in
Poland. It was published in the 1880's through 1902, so it predates
WWII. The problem is that all the entries are in Polish, so you will
need to translate the information.

Good hunting

Hello everyone, I am relocating to the Sylvan Glen Shire of Aethelmarc. Anyone
on the list in that area? Marijah

Yahoo grupe o Srpskoj Kraljevskoj porodici:


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalfamily_karadjordjevic/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalfamily_karadjordjevic_I/

"Bigmakusa", thank you _sooo_ much!

For your pleasure, I will write down my reactions to
your post as I read it;

> You might want to start with Kazimierz Rymut's
> Dictionary of Surnames.....

Ooooo, wow!


> You can find a
> link to it on the Polish Genealogical Society
> website, www.pgsa.org,

OOOOooooooo, WOW!

> there is an address
> for a Polish institute that will research the
> history of a name to
> tell you its origin for a nominal fee (usually about
> $20). This group
> understands and will reply in English.

Oooo, wow!

> If you know the town name in Poland where your
> ancestor resided, you
> can probably find out more about it in the Slownik
> Geograficzyny
> Krolestwa Polskiego,

EXcellent!
(I'll be getting that town's name this week, by the
way; I'm driving up to Buffalo, where relatives
reside)

a geographical dictionary that
> describes towns in
> Poland. It was published in the 1880's through 1902,
> so it predates
> WWII.

Ooooo, wow!

The problem is that all the entries are in
> Polish, so you will
> need to translate the information.

Uh-oh!
Hmmmm....

> Good hunting

LOL!
(this was a laughter of pleasure)

Anyway, thank you so much, makusa, for bringing my
search back into motion! (I was stalled due to not
knowing where to look any further).

Happily,
Eluned aka Tracy


=====

IN 2004 - JUNE 4-6th - COMING TO CHARLOTTE - (drum roll,
please,)http://www.secfi.org/concarolinas

for good webcomics, use these links!
http://sluggy.com   http://www.schlockmercenary.com  
http://www.kevinandkell.com




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
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In the tourist brochures published in English in Poland there is a distinc=
tion made
between 'family' and 'noble family'. The 1st refers to casual relatives be=
aring some
common surename like Kowal,  Jankowski, whereas the 2nd signifies social c=
lass  -
such a family mentioned in a text describing history of a region had the r=
ight to bear a
certain herald  and some legal privileges along with land, households, str=
ongholds and
property of other sort used to apply.e.g Odrowaz, Koniecpolski,  have'Odro=
wa=BF' herald
on their standard and numbers of other noble families also have the right =
to use
Odrawa=BF. Of course, not all persons bearing certain surename can testify=
  that a herald
or precious family goods like piece of jewelery signed with certain herald=
  motif used to
or are the property of this family branch. To prove his or her nobility a =
person should
search through testimonies of birth of his probable grand-ancestors who us=
ed to live in
some area for centuries and if this genealogical research proves to be
successful(matches with some of his or her parents) and the searcher manag=
es to
complete these documents, then he or she is free to contact a herald organ=
ization to
apply for a proper certicate of authenticity. Otherwise, bearing an existi=
ng herald with no
proof of ownership is illegal and a legal owner of this herald can accuse =
he other person
of theft at the Polish court. Anyway, being born in a noble family contemp=
orarily is just a
fact and Polish democracy does not privilege individuals with any convenie=
nce neither
economical, social nor political as it used to be centuries ago. Owning a =
noble family
seal is rather an interesting fact than a helpful argument in modern socia=
l life, business
and politics.


Wojciech from Cracovia

Wooden Artefacts from Medieval Novgorod. It's a 2 book set, I don'
t have the citation handy But that's the book you want.

> Greetings All,
>  I'm looking for any and all information on the construction of
> wooden chests and boxes from 12th century Novgorod, particularly the
> hinges, hasps, etc that would have been used. Web resources, direct
> information, book recommendations, all would be appreciated!
>
> -Kean
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne@...
"It is no use telling me that there are bad aunts and good aunts.
At the  core, they are all alike. Sooner or later, out pops the
cloven hoof." -- P.G. Wodehouse, _The Code of the Woosters_

Is that the one put out by the British Archeological Reports?  If so, the
ISBN is 0860546357  Wooden Artifacts from Medieval Novgorod by B. A. Kolchin,
Institute of Archeology, Academy of Sciences of the USSR translated from the
Russian  Produced under the editorial supervision of A. V. Chernetsov, BAR
International Series 495(i) 1989

Volume 1 is the text and is rather dry, but explains a great deal.  Volume 2
is the pictures.  Lots of lathe made objects.  They've even reconstructed a
lathe out of the pieces that have been found.

Hope this helps

Vasilisa Myshkina
Glymm Mere, An Tir


Inter library loan is your friend!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Great!
Thanks for that note.. I cant wait... I have to, due to finances and now I
need a dentist... (Argh)..
But they sound great!!
Judwiga


>From: sig@yahoogroups.com
>Reply-To: sig@yahoogroups.com
>To: sig@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [sig] Digest Number 1422
>Date: 15 Mar 2004 14:18:54 -0000
>

>
>Message: 1
>    Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:15:05 -0800 (PST)
>    From: Tracy Kremer <eluned_p@...>
>Subject: Re: Visiting IL soon... Sunday!!!!!
>
>
>--- Judwiga Czarna Pika <JudwigaCaidI@...>
>wrote:
> >If possible, I would like to visit
> > Chicago Thrift stores and book stores...etc...
> > Any advice??? Thanks all!!
>
>yes; don't forget the Chicago Museums, etc!  The city
>is as blessed in that respect as in bookstores!
>
>Eluned
>
>__________________________________

_________________________________________________________________
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So anybody know what's cool to look for in Cleveland, OH? I got family back
there maybe I can talk my cousin into locating me books and such if I have
locations for her to go to.

I'm doing mostly Hungarian if that helps.

Kathws

This link was passed on to me today:

http://faculty.washington.edu/dwaugh/rus/ruspg1.html

From the site:

"This web page will provide links to resources for the teaching and learning of
the early history of the areas encompassed primarily by today's Ukraine and the
European parts of Russia and some adjoining regions of Eastern Europe.  The
particular focus will be on the culture of the Orthodox East Slavs; the period
to be covered extends to approximately 1700.  The emphasis is on material
available in English; this is not intended as a resource primarily for the
support of serious academic research."

I haven't read through the whole thing yet, but it seems to have a lot of good
info from primary sources (i.e. legal texts, narrative accounts, chronicles) for
non-Russian speakers.

Let me know what you think.

--Kseniia



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lady Kseniia Smol'nyanina
Barony of Three Mountains
kseniia@...
          ********
MKA: Christine Jacobs
www.geocities.com/chrstnj
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~