That's what the Dutch and other western Europeans did also. It was more
practical; it was a good means of transportation and not necessarily a balance
contest like it is today. Even when they played games with it--early forms of
ice hockey, if you will--the gliding was done on the flats, not the edge. The
edges didn't get to be hot stuff until the nineteenth century, and then they
were mounted to the boot.

   Isabelle


   I've seen illustrations of bone skates that showed the rib bones laced
   directly to the wearer's boots to glide on the _flat_ of the rib, not the
   edge.

   Sofya la Rus



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings!

Sorry, it's my fault. I have just noticed I wrote "navershnik" where I meant
povoynik. My apologies.

bye,
Alex.

55 messages in 4 days ....
Boy am I glad to be in digest mode...

A.

--- leafcarver@... wrote:
>
> I'm very interested in yurts, but my lord is a dyed
> in the wool saxon and
> grumbles that yurts take up too much space in
> transport to feasably do with
> just our Ford Ranger to make the Pennsic trip in. Do
> they take up more room
> than say your average panther pavillion?
>

Tell your husband that the collapsed khana for a 14'
yurt fits perfectly between the wheel wells of a Ford
Ranger, because that's what we have.  Then we put the
wooden door on top of that, and tubs and stuff go on
top of that.  The top ends of the rafters rest on a
ladder rack so they extend over the top of the truck
on two bundles (the notched ends rest in the bed) and
the roof ring goes between them.  Wolfie can see
through the roof ring in the rear-view mirror to drive
and to check on the load.

The canvas weighs about 80-100 pounds and goes in a
large-ish Rubbermaid tub.  All the rest is "stuff" --
garb, camping gear (lights and such), bedding, the bed
itself, rugs, archery equipment, my clothing rack
(which gets bundled with the rafters), and other small
and squishable goodies.  All this in a 2001 Ford
Ranger without a cap.

I would say that they don't, because you can put the
flattened khana on the bottom (and we use an extra
piece of canvas as a sling to help us get it on and
off the truck without snagging any of the knots on the
tailgate) and put the rafters on a ladder rack, which
is exactly what you'd have to do with the poles from a
Panther.  Then there's the canvas, which goes in a
tub, exactly like you'd do with canvas for a Panther.


> I've been very curious about period pavillions for
> Eastern European personas,
> but I'm not sure where to look for that sort of
> thing.
>
> Vasha

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MedievalEncampments/>
<http://www.currentmiddleages.org/tents/index.html>

These two might be good places to start.

Tasha

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--- Seonaid <seonaid13@...> wrote:
{snip}
> 2- _Medieval Russian Ornament in Full Color: From
> Illuminated Manuscripts_ from the Moscow Museum of
> Art
> and Industry.

Got it at Birka a couple of years ago.  Gorgeous.
Much fodder for budding scribes.

Tasha

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Predslava suggested...
>And feasts. Lots of feasts. Weekly feasts seem to have
>been an obligation of the princes towards their druzhina

To which Alex replied...
>Sorry, feasts for a knyaz were not an entertainment, as all the state
issues
>were discussed there and then. It was just a fine occasion to do so...

I would agree that feasts were not a form of entertainment... surely any
lord would be expected to cater for his retainers and assorted hirelings -
not to mention his extended household - on a regular basis? Quite simply,
it's the easiest and most economical way to feed a large number of people -
as well as the dogs who lived on scraps etc.

As it happens, it ALSO strengthens the ties between lord and retainer,
allows matters of importance to be discussed, and presumably either
demonstrates the lord's largesse or forms part of his payment to (some of)
those serving him. However, we need not see a feast as always having been a
banquet, with luxury items served and special entertainment laid on.

Cheers

Alastair

Hi,

I was wondering what, if any, sumptuary laws/rules/customs there were
in Medieval Russia.  I am specifically interested in the Kievan Rus
period, but since one of my SCA goals is to make garb that would have
been worn in Kiev throughout the time period of the SCA, I would be
happy to hear about other times as well.

Thanks,
Xristina

A State of Deference: Ragusa/Dubrovnik in the Medieval Centuries (Middle
Ages Series)
by Susan Mosher Stuard
Hardcover: 269 pages ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.94 x 9.36 x 6.24
Publisher: University of Pennsylvania Press; ISBN: 0812231783; (October
1992)


Dubrovnik in the 14th and 15th Centuries: A City Between East and West
by Barisa Krekic
Publisher: Univ of Oklahoma Pr (Trd); ASIN: 0806109998; (March 1979)


Age, Marriage, and Politics in Fifteenth-Century Ragusa (Oxford Studies in
Social and Cultural Anthropology)
by David Rheubottom
Hardcover: 360 pages
Publisher: Oxford University Press; ISBN: 0198234120; (July 2000)


Dubrovnik: A Mediterranean Urban Society, 1300-1600 (Collected Studies,
Cs581.)
by Barisa Krekic
Publisher: Variorum; ISBN: 0860786315; (July 1997)


Dubrovnik and its surroundings : history, culture, art, natural features,
tourism, plan of the city and its surroundings, map
by Anuéska Novakoviâc
144 pages
Publisher: Mate; ASIN: 9536070510


Dubrovnik (Ragusa): a classic city-state
by Francis W. Carter
710 pages
Publisher: Seminar Press; ASIN: 0128129506


__________________________________________________
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I am looking for information on what was used after 1000 and before
1700 as the equivalent of Buckrum.

I have made buckrum, wire, glue, and flannel hats using modern
milinary techniques, and have substituted plastic needlepoint/cross-
stitch canvas for the buckrum.

I posted the following question on the SCA-Miliners list, and didn't
get much response (did get a couple of nice links for Russian hats
that I will sent to this list tonight or tomorrow).

Can anyone here help me?

>I've had someone suggest that birch bark was used as the support for
Russian beaded headdresses.

>Someone else suggested that leather was used.

>Does anyone know for sure, or know where I can look?

>I would like to make a Russian beaded headdress for an arts-and-
sciences completition, but I also want to be able to wear it at
tourneys and wars, and not worry about dampness. I could probably
justify using the plastic canvas for these reasons, but I would like
to have a better idea of what was actually used.

>I also don't think any of the museums I could visit or contact will
want to take the hats they have apart <leg>!

Thanks in advance,
Su of the Silver Horn, Caid
Su Ralston, Fullerton, CA

In a message dated 8/27/2002 4:24:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
suralston@... writes:


> I've had someone suggest that birch bark was used as the support for
> Russian beaded headdresses.
>
> >Someone else suggested that leather was used.
>
>

Since I probably was one of the "someones," this might be redundant.
However, scholars such as Rabinovich or Giliarovskaiia think that leather or
birchbark was what went in there, along with wire. I don't think anyone knows
for sure, since nothing survives.  Post-period hats use cardboard and glue.
I imagine glue was what kept it from falling apart in bad weather, though I
doubt a woman would wear one of those expensive and treasured things if it
rained or snowed.

I wear my buckram-based hats all over the place, including once or twice in
the rain, and so far they held up. However, some are fine on my head but
won't stand up to close scrutiny at the Pentathlon anymore.

Liudmila



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject: [sig] Feasts (was: Passtimes in past times)

Weren't feasts also used as a punishment of sorts also? If as Tsar I
wouldn't want anyone to get too rich, I'd move in for a little while, with
my retainers, eat him out of house and home, and then move on. That also
allowed under the guise of hospitallity, a savings of the treasury. I know
it was done in the west, but am not sure of slavic implications Just a
thought. Srgius B

My research has shown that birch bark was one of the
things used to stiffen headdresses. I made one. I got
my piece at a basketry making shop. It was not cheap.
I worked really well and it has has held up for 8
years.
Baroness Anastasia
--- LiudmilaV@... wrote:
> In a message dated 8/27/2002 4:24:38 PM Pacific
> Daylight Time,
> suralston@... writes:
>
>
> > I've had someone suggest that birch bark was used
> as the support for
> > Russian beaded headdresses.
> >
> > >Someone else suggested that leather was used.
> >
> >
>
> Since I probably was one of the "someones," this
> might be redundant.
> However, scholars such as Rabinovich or
> Giliarovskaiia think that leather or
> birchbark was what went in there, along with wire. I
> don't think anyone knows
> for sure, since nothing survives.  Post-period hats
> use cardboard and glue.
> I imagine glue was what kept it from falling apart
> in bad weather, though I
> doubt a woman would wear one of those expensive and
> treasured things if it
> rained or snowed.
>
> I wear my buckram-based hats all over the place,
> including once or twice in
> the rain, and so far they held up. However, some are
> fine on my head but
> won't stand up to close scrutiny at the Pentathlon
> anymore.
>
> Liudmila
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


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Greetings!

Have no idea what buckrum is (the online translator as usual says dunno), but
Russians really used birch bark to make headdresses stiff. As I can make it
out, boiled bark was (and ever is) used, it is softer and not so terribly rolls
up. Other sources state birch bark to be ever popular stiffener - even in early
1900s birch bark was put between layers of leather in the heel part of a high
boot.

Birch bark is mentioned at least in Kireeva (???? Can't remember correctly. As
usual, the idea came when I'm off my library - the book is "Kostyum Narodov
Vostochnoy Yevropy", or like that)

Leather afair was never used in headdresses - it absorbs water anyway.

bye,
Alex

Greetings!

>
> Weren't feasts also used as a punishment of sorts also? If as Tsar I
> wouldn't want anyone to get too rich, I'd move in for a little while, with
> my retainers, eat him out of house and home, and then move on. That also
> allowed under the guise of hospitallity, a savings of the treasury. I know
> it was done in the west, but am not sure of slavic implications Just a
> thought. Srgius B

I strongly hesitate it could be. The warlords times (cf. popular wild west
features) required buying the loyalty of one's men by showing generosity. No
generosity can be shown if the warleader shows generosity at someone's expense.
Such cases are more typical for times when aristocracy never needed to prove
its worth - e.g., in 18-century Russia. It really makes a story from the cycle
about Alexander Suvorov who fed the horses in his army at the expense of the
local posh jentry, arriving in a carriage moved by several dozens horses - each
time different ones.

bye,
Alex

Ave,

Anyone knows what material was used as a stiffener for
a robe and other top clothes in 14 and 15c?

Wojtek

Greetings!

Out of a Random curiosity (and a need to register my name), anyone here have
any good sources for Pre-1600s (preferrably 1300s) Slavic Names? More
specifically: Lithuanian?

My goal is to find documentation for 'Gintaras' and the some last name. I
doubt that 'the Taura' is period, but I'll take it if at all possible!

~Doug (Lord Gintaras the Taura, Midlands Regional Chatelain)~

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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In a message dated 8/28/2002 5:55:54 PM Central Daylight Time,
gintarasthetaura@... writes:


> Out of a Random curiosity (and a need to register my name), anyone here have
>
> any good sources for Pre-1600s (preferrably 1300s) Slavic Names? More
> specifically: Lithuanian?

There is a source for Slavic names on the Web, but Lithuanian is not a Slavic
language, and Lithuanian naming practices did not work like Russian
practices. But maybe someone can help you with Lithuanian.

Predslava.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 8/28/2002 12:48:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Posadnik@... writes:


> Have no idea what buckrum is (the online translator as usual says dunno), but
> Russians really used birch bark to make headdresses stiff.

That's probably because there is no buckram readily available in Russia, I
think. Until I came to the US 7 years ago, I never heard of it. It looks like
severely stiffened "marlia", really -- loose plain weave (though with a
regular grid pattern). It comes in different thickness, and can be softened
and shaped using steam.

> Birch bark is mentioned at least in Kireeva (???? Can't remember correctly.
> As
> usual, the idea came when I'm off my library - the book is "Kostyum Narodov
> Vostochnoy Yevropy", or like that)
>

I think you mean the book edited by Rabinovich, no? Birchbark is mentioned
there.

Liudmila



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Alexey Kiyaikin aka Posadnik <Posadnik@...>
wrote:
>
> Greetings!
>
> Have no idea what buckrum is (the online translator
> as usual says dunno),
{snip}
>
> bye,
> Alex

Try "buckram".

Tasha

__________________________________________________
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> anyone here have any good sources for Pre-1600s
> (preferrably 1300s) Slavic Names? More
> specifically: Lithuanian?
Not specifically, but my suggestion would be to find the name in history. 
Though I haven't looked into it, I'm willing to bet that Jagellio's ancestors
are well documented.
Unfortunately, I can't help you with Lithuanain naming conventions.  Straight
locatives and patronymics are pretty easy to deal with.  I know that in Poland
during that time, at least within the Piasts, everything was a descriptive
(Leszek the Black, Henry the Rightous, etc).
Hope this is some help

Jan

I have been asked to pass on this statement from Dr. L. Jiran, director of
the Institute of Archaeology in Prague. This message has been cross-posted
to the ARCH-L, Britarch and EuropeanArchaeology mailing lists - please feel
free to forward it to as many other colleagues and lists as you feel it may
be relevant to.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Due to the devastating floods which have affected Bohemia, the operations
of the Institute of Archaeology of the Czech Academy of Sciences in Prague
have been paralysed. The Institute was established in 1919, was
incorporated into the Czechoslovak Academy of Sciences in 1953 and since
1992 has been part of the Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic. The
Institute of Archaeology in Prague is the institution in which is
concentrated the greatest number of professional workers in the discipline
anywhere in the Czech Republic. Their areas of expertise encompass
archaeological resources stretching from the Palaeolithic to the Early
Modern periods, which were and are gained primarily, but not exclusively,
from the Czech Republic. Both portable and immovable sources are studied
(artefacts, features, settlements and their remains of all kinds, funerary
relicts, landscapes). A broad range of methodological approaches are
applied to both field and theoretical research. Emphasis is laid on
inter-disciplinary co-operation (with the natural and historical sciences
in particular). The Institute of Archaeology is also the traditional
publisher - and largest in the Czech Republic - of professional
publications, as well as of the two major Czech archaeological journals,
Památky archeologické and Archeologické rozhledy. The Institute possessed a
comprehensive library and systematically created archive that formed an
information base for both the broader professional and non-expert publics.
It has contributed to the conservation of archaeological resources as part
of the national cultural heritage organisationally, legislatively,
informatically and practically (conducting trial excavations, documenting
threatened sites and carrying out minor rescue operations), to the
organisation of scientific life (conferences and public competitions) and
to the popularisation of archaeology (seminars, exhibitions).

In recent years the Institute of Archaeology in Prague has managed to
secure considerable, high quality technical and instrumental equipment. It
has at its disposal, for example, the most modern equipment for the
creation of digitised documentation, along with the software required for
its further processing. To meet requirements for field survey caesium
magnetometers and modern total stations are available. One of the
professional teams within the Institute has its own aircraft available,
with the aid of which a project for the aerial prospection of historic
landscapes in Bohemia is being conducted.

The well-equipped profilographic laboratory had recently become a fully
operative centre, the only one of its kind in the former Communist bloc,
achieving noteworthy results in particular in the area of classic
artefactual archaeology. Thanks to a concerted effort over the last few
years it was possible to gradually outfit the conservation laboratory with
modern equipment, too. In connection with the ever-increasing
interpenetration of traditional archaeological and natural scientific
methods in the formulation of theoretical approaches within the discipline
attention was also devoted to obtaining the modern instruments required for
the work of those colleagues working in the Natural Science Department - a
workplace for the processing of samples for pollen analysis, a molecular
genetics centre for the isolation of DNA from osseous material etc. A
central archive of sources for the discipline was also created, and it was
in this year, even, that a general reconstruction and modernisation of the
library was undertaken.

All of the Institute's activities were more or less halted on August 14th
2002, when its principal buildings in Letenská ul. were submerged by
floodwaters from the Vltava river to a depth of three metres. The library
was destroyed virtually in its entirety, and the store of Institute
publications from the last 15 years was also devastated. The geodetic
archive (some 10,000 maps and plans) and the photographic archive (some 120
000 negatives and diapositives), the natural sciences and conservation
laboratories as well as the archaeological finds depositories were all
flooded out.

The Institute of Archaeology in Prague will not be able to recover from
this colossal damage without the aid of colleagues, the archaeological
community as a whole and the broader public, particularly in recreating the
library collections. Any donations of books (professional monographs,
proceedings, runs of journals, dictionaries, encyclopediae, textbooks)
would be most welcome, in addition to such financial aid as might be
offered.

Financial donations may be sent to the account of the Institute of
Archaeology in Prague:

Account name:  Archeologický ústav AV ČR v Praze
Account number:  17537031 / 0710
Bank: Czech National Bank (Česká národní banka)
SWIFT code:   CEKOCZPP

-----------------------------------------------------------

Forwarded by:
Alastair Millar, BSc(Hons)
alastair@... - alastairmillar@...
Consultancy and translation for the heritage industry
Hornicka 1736, CZ 413 01 Roudnice, Czech Republic

--- In sig@y..., <jjbober4@r...> wrote:
> > anyone here have any good sources for Pre-1600s
> > (preferrably 1300s) Slavic Names? More
> > specifically: Lithuanian?
> one thing that may help is to go down to your local Latter day
Saints Church and ask to see what they have on Lithuania..they should
produce some micro fiche which will list what has been
microfilmed.They have been systematically microfilming all church
records available anywhere. I know they had some pre 1500 stuff for
poland and the ukraine which i have ordered. They may have some on
Lithuania as well. Anyway its an idea..

Happy Researching    Marijah

What is the Slavic name site?  I am trying to pick out a last name for
myself,  I am from Ukraine last 1500s.

Tat' ianna

We just sleep in it!  We have a larger tent for stuff!

   -----Original Message-----
   From: Diane Sawyer [mailto:tasha_medvedeva@...]
   Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 3:16 PM
   To: sig@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: RE: [sig] Slavic encampment next year at Pennsic?

   A 9-foot yurt?  How do you not kill each other?  Where
   do you put your stuff?  Mine is 14' and that's the
   absolute minimum size I would consider with another
   person!

   Tasha

Otel, who make my yurt, had this zebra striped small import thingy type car.
He carried it quite comfortably for set-up at demos.

I sell tents & pavilions and I just sold TWO 18x24x11 foot pavilions,
including ALL hardware and it took our VAN just to get them out of customs!
I have a 92 Eclipse and I can JUST fit them in.  One person ordered the
flooring which was ANOTHER canvas bag the size of a large sofa cushion by
the height of your average coffee table.

Soffya
www.aeonline.biz/pavilions.htm

   -----Original Message-----
   From: leafcarver@... [mailto:leafcarver@...]
   Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 4:29 PM
   To: sig@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: Re: [sig] Slavic encampment next year at Pennsic?

   I'm very interested in yurts, but my lord is a dyed in the wool saxon and
   grumbles that yurts take up too much space in transport to feasably do
with
   just our Ford Ranger to make the Pennsic trip in. Do they take up more
room
   than say your average panther pavillion?

   I've been very curious about period pavillions for Eastern European
personas,
   but I'm not sure where to look for that sort of thing.

   Vasha

In a message dated 8/31/2002 1:33:22 PM Central Daylight Time,
tatianna_codlin@... writes:


> What is the Slavic name site?  I am trying to pick out a last name for
> myself,  I am from Ukraine last 1500s.
>

Here's the link:
<A HREF="http://medievalrussia.freeservers.com/names.html">Click here: Medieval
Russia -- Names and Naming Practices</A>
(http://medievalrussia.freeservers.com/names.html)

Good luck!


*****************************
Predslava Vydrina
Per fess embattled azure and gules, two otters passant or.
  <A
HREF="http://members.aol.com/Predslava/RussianHistoryTriviaPage.html">Russian
History Trivia Page</A>
(http://members.aol.com/Predslava/RussianHistoryTriviaPage.html)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tat'ianna,
    There is nothing specifically Ukrainian that I found for names
but...the slavic name site is: http://www.sca.org/heraldry/paul/
I defaulted to to the Period Russian naming site and chose a
occupational byname - and used the Ukrainian word instead of the Russian
one. I still don't know if it will pass - but I gave them the name and
said if they need to they can change it to one with the same meaning,
from Kiev at ~ the same time period as you.


     Since you have been looking at the Ukraine - what have you found for
costume and does it differ from the Russian fashions? and how?
     I've been working on documenting wax resist eggs, and Ukrainian folk
songs (I'm not as far along with the songs); so any of my work on
costuming has been put on hold (though I have a small amount of research
done).
-Kataryna

> I sell tents & pavilions and I just sold TWO 18x24x11 foot pavilions,
> including ALL hardware and it took our VAN just to get them out of customs!
> I have a 92 Eclipse and I can JUST fit them in.  One person ordered the

Really?  I've got a '91 Eclipse, and can't fit our 15x18x8 pavilion plus
floor... especially not the poles.  You must know some nifty space-folding
technique...

Parsla

I just donated my 16x22 ft panther pavillion to a
shire in S. Ohio so I could get a tax write off and
purchase a more Slavic style tent suitable for one or
two people that one person could easily put up. Got
any suggestions?
'dak

--- Parsla Liepa <pliepa@...> wrote:
>
> > I sell tents & pavilions and I just sold TWO
> 18x24x11 foot pavilions,
> > including ALL hardware and it took our VAN just to
> get them out of customs!
> > I have a 92 Eclipse and I can JUST fit them in.
> One person ordered the
>
> Really?  I've got a '91 Eclipse, and can't fit our
> 15x18x8 pavilion plus
> floor... especially not the poles.  You must know
> some nifty space-folding
> technique...
>
> Parsla
>
>


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thank you very much for the website.

Tat'ianna